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How the balancing of Burst vs Sustained has ruined some classes in PVE


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I have recently returned to the game after being away for years. I am very disappointed that the devs have nerfed alot of the burst specs into the ground. Most lighting sorcs put out laughable DPS and marksmanship is a joke. How do the devs think making some players favorite specs total garbage in PVE will be good for the game? They dont have to put out top parses but they need to be somewhat close to viable in NIM. The devs are saying only certain disciplinse are allowed into Mastermode content?!?!?! Very sad that players can't just play what they want to play in Mastermode content even in HM a lof of players wont touch burst ranged DPS. This talk about "disadvantages and advantages" is nonsense and shows the devs are out of touch with community. Melee do have to close the gap however they do thave one important "advantage" called instant cast abilities that can be used on the move. Alot of ranged classes have to break their casts to move, so everyone has some type of disadvantage. 

Please restore burst ranged classes to being reasonably good in PVE. The game has a limited number of classes and disciplines making some trash in pve is not good for the health of the game.

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  • 1 month later...

I agree that marksmanship and arsenal (and their counterparts need some love). Lightning also might need a slight improvement. The problem is that the devs are unable to balance PvP and PvE separately and they seem to focus on PvP balancing. Furthermore, they are unable to take a class utility/class defensive cooldowns into account when balancing the classes. For example dot mara/sent do a sh.. ton of passive healing, have good defensive cooldowns and are still one of the best dps classes in the game. Similar with dot PT which may be behind 5k compared with the top dps when parsing on a training dummy but excel once they receive damage and their passive damage abilities kick in (and they have a strong burst damage). That's why Mara/PTs are preferred in most nim progress groups over dot shadow/scoundrel, although the latter classes currently parse the highest on the training dummy.

However, with the current gear (i.e., Rakata 344 and 340 legendaries) it basically does not matter what you are playing for most of the bosses (expect maybe dxun/gods nim). Of course quadruple marksmanship dps or the like may require to play more mechanics but hard enrage should not be a problem.

In operations like Dxun or Gods nim, certain setups are significantly advantageous, e.g.,

- Gods Nahut nim: triple/quadruple PT dps a) to rebounder the energized slices b) due to the stupid amount of damage they can do in the first phase since their passive abilities kick in and c) to pull the turrets (kicks of Sage/mando/slinger may, in principle, also be suitable but may require some aiming in case the turret is on a bridge); furthermore, mando and sage suffer significant ability pushback in the first phase;

- Dxun Mutant Trandoshans nim: in many groups Titax is "tanked" with 1-2 dot PT(s) due to their damage reduction/defensive cooldowns and their ability to taunt;

- Dxun Huntmaster nim patch 6.x: Gunslingers and Burst Sages were usually preferred since they were able to damage the boss in the intermission when he was at the pond (no longer needed since this boss no longer has any damage check);

- Dxun Apex Vanguard: due to the necessity to cleanse the entire group every minute PT tanks are usually not used and the number of Gunslinger/PT dps is usually kept low;

In these cases the dps setup is not chosen exclusively based on damage output of the respective class but mainly due to the individual class utility/abilities.

 

Edited by The_Hightower
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On 6/10/2024 at 11:36 AM, The_Hightower said:

they seem to focus on PvP balancing

fun part is that if you listen to any PvP player they'll say that the devs only focus on PvE balancing...

My guess is that they don't focus on either and just work on those arbitrarily set "target dps" that they talked about during 5.X to justify the Arsenal nerfs.

The main issue right now is the disparity that doesn't fit what they called back then.

As a reminder, back then they stated that :
- Burst specs needed to deal less damage than DoT specs, because DoT specs had a harder time swapping target and building up damage (hilarious when you look at Arsenal or advanced prototype who need as much of a setup as a dot spec like hatred)

- Ranged spec needed to deal less damage than Melee spec because melee spec need to focus to stay on the boss.

Immediately you see that mentality falter because even on "dummy parsing bosses" like Nefra you have a massive disparity between Deception and AP on sites like Parsely despite both of these being a melee burst discipline with the possibility to off-taunt. My *guess* is that they have no idea what they're doing on that front.


 

On 6/10/2024 at 11:36 AM, The_Hightower said:

Furthermore, they are unable to take a class utility/class defensive cooldowns into account when balancing the classes.

True as well, once again coming back to 5.0 as the baseline for this issue. Arsenal mercs with three full life defensive options back then, who got nerfed on their damage rather than the unneeded defensive options at the time. Which is even funnier because right now they lack the aoe damage reduction to survive hits on Nahut NiM which is preventing them from being played on this content (sad thing because they could be good with their push for turrets). So yeah they can't even tune defensive abilities correctly on most class, because it's as imbalanced for PvE than it is for PvP.

On top of all that you add tacticals and legendaries, with some class having tacticals and legendaries that are so good that they're must have, and other classes having tacticals so bad that you're better taking a generic one (hi shadow tank) or even simply bugged legendaries (hi Shadowcraft) who can't even be used in raid content...

Yeah I think at that point class balance is whack and they have no clue about it. Which is immensely funny because we even have websites showing actual player data and how wrong the balance is but they're not even acting on it. Shame that a bunch of players on a theorycrafting discord can manage to find solutions to balance issues while the dev team is simply unaware or unwilling to fix any of these.

Edited by supertimtaf
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11 hours ago, supertimtaf said:

fun part is that if you listen to any PvP player they'll say that the devs only focus on PvE balancing...

My guess is that they don't focus on either and just work on those arbitrarily set "target dps" that they talked about during 5.X to justify the Arsenal nerfs.

Ok, everybody is complaining^^

Imagine there would be a separate PvP stat on the gear, let's call it "expertise" and it would be possible to adjust how this stat affects damage done, damage taken etc. individually for each combat style. This would enable separate PvP and PvE balancing. Since the set boni have been moved to the implants (whereof no expertise version should be introduced), the amount of PvP gear items required even when wanting to play each combat style in PvP would be quite low.

 

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