Where 7.0 went wrong.

[VilianSW]

1 hour ago, Jdast said:

The problem -- the Voss storyline with the Three Mystics was so pointless it was infuriating. We perform a bunch of menial tasks (e.g. sweeping floors) to gain favor with the Three Mystics. Upon completion of taking out garbage and helping to restore some shrines, the Three Mystics enlighten us with galaxy-shattering news: We are important in some vague, cryptic way! 🙄 Frankly, I wanted to go back and trash that kitchen and desecrate some of the Voss shrines. 

It's sort of heartwarming I wasn't the only one who reacted this way. Utter waste of resources on area that is pleasing visually but story-wise is too stupid to ever exist in the first place. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:00 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Second wind by itself doesn't offer much in PVE, very rarely would it actually be useful. 

Not really true, second wind is often used by tanks on nim ops. Especially on ttk boss kills when groups take 1 or no healers. Whether taking 1 or no healers in what is supposed to be the hardest content of the game is the legendary being "OP" or the "hardest content" being actually easy is up to each one's thoughts. 

7.0 was bad, but so were most of previous expansions. Game was bad as an mmo from the beginning, 2.0 and 3.0 the only proper expansions which to play them you needed to buy them like most other popular mmos, while i personally did not like 3.0 very much after that it went downhill pretty fast. Reverting back from worst to bad won't help the game, if they want to help the game maybe they should look as to why some mmos like wow and ff14 still have millions of subs and copy the good ideas from those games into here 

Edited March 5 by xxSHOONYxx

[kirorx]

I like that implants give us the option of two set bonuses; but I also dislike that they have different stats. I would prefer maybe a different slot like we have for our tacticals. 

Sometimes I find different times for different implants but that means changing other set pieces on account that one implant may be crit and the other alacrity 

 

Also. People brought up the storyline. For real this trickle of story has been so slow; its crazy that is been years now. 

Lets just wrap this stuff up and get back to an Rep vs Imp storyline and not trickle out a couple minutes of dialogue every couple months. 

I dont need huge story updates, just more story conclusions 

 

Edited March 5 by kirorx

[SentinalMasterWW]

I'm going to resurrect this post, I thought about making a new one but honestly all I'd be doing is echoing the same thoughts and criticisms i've been stating over the past two years. Alongside that is the numerous posts i have made offering advice to the Dev's on how they can fix their game. 

I am taking an extended hiatus for a while from SWTOR. I've been playing this game consecutively since 2017 and played for a time at launch. 7 years I have stuck with this game, but honestly its the not the game I fell in love with 7 years ago, its a dried up husk. 

The recent post by the Dev's basically blaming the fans for having too high of expectations prove how disconnected they are from the community. Xam Xam a really prolific content creator for SWTOR announced they are basically done with the game. They have no idea if they will come back but that it is up to the Dev's to turn the game around. 

Anyone else noticing a trend? 

Mark Biggs PVP content creator - Gone 

Faltun PVP Content Creator - Gone

Cease Faith PVP Content Creator - Hiatus 

SWTOR Central Content Creator - Heavily Disgruntled but passionate towards wanting the game to be better 

Vulkk Content Creator - Disgruntled 

All the SWTOR content creators are either leaving or heavily dissatisfied with the current state of the game. 

Everyone is leaving for better games, Games that listen to their fans, listen to their feedback and actively engages with the community. A lot of them are going to ESO for their MMO fix, ESO is by no means a perfect game but at least the Dev's interact with their community and does their best to take player feedback into consideration.

What about SWTOR?

The story has been milked out for several years and players just want it to end. 

PVP is unplayable with how broken meta classes are and the amount of premades ruining the fun for solo pugs by DMG farming solo players.

Endgame is non existent as there are no new operations or even flashpoints for these players to do. 

I wouldn't mind levelling alts but its a terrible experience because the pruning and poor levelling design. All I do is once I hit level 15 is start doing spammer station and power levelling. 

We had the disastrous APAC server launch and while I don't play on APAC I know it was a dumpster fire the way that was handled. 

A lot of the servers are dead with barely any population in them. 

There is a ton more, but that would mean writing a book.

I think the Dev's have the potential to make the game better and turn it around, but I just don't see that happening. Maybe in a possible 8.0 if that ever happens we might see a resurgence in the game like 6.0 but its not likely. 

The Dev's have shifted their priority to two things; Single player Story and the Cartel Market

Anything else is basically "If we feel like it" 

No Nim R-4 

No new operations on the horizon 

No PVP fixes or new modes/maps 

Nothing. 

I'm going to end off this post with this image. I feel like it explains itself pretty well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6 by SentinalMasterWW

[AFadedMemory]

On 3/4/2024 at 11:47 PM, Pirana said:

Accurate.

This is why when people come along and their forum date is 2017, the person can't be taken seriously. It doesn't mean there isn't some merit to their post, but unless they were here watching everything unfold, don't assume one of the recent 'expansions' were the reason the game failed or where things went wrong. It started from the beginning.

The Makeb expansion, I've always considered it a glorified daily zone, nothing more. The Revan one was decent, but again, two more huge daily zones with a story.

This company wants to try and earn back a playerbase, you nailed it, one large expansion with quests, achievements, Operations and Flashpoints is the only way this game has a chance of growing again. Essentially another Revan expansion, but bigger, and the odds of that happening have been reduced with last years transition.

It depends on the targeted demographic. New or Old. New players have a lot of content to catch up on and some of the areas/missions are locked until they catch up to current and that’s quite a mind numbing Grind with no updated skips available.  

I think your idea could work if they do something like these:

- “Retire” the current protagonist and started a brand new story line.

- Give first time subscribers a skip to current Max level token or replace the area completion requirements with level requirements.

- Create an alternate path from the KOTFE timeline/story that can be skipped to. 

Edited July 6 by AFadedMemory

[Pirana]

1 hour ago, AFadedMemory said:

It depends on the targeted demographic. New or Old. New players have a lot of content to catch up on and some of the areas/missions are locked until they catch up to current and that’s quite a mind numbing Grind with no updated skips available.  

I think your idea could work if they do something like these:

- “Retire” the current protagonist and started a brand new story line.

- Give first time subscribers a skip to current Max level token or replace the area completion requirements with level requirements.

- Create an alternate path from the KOTFE timeline/story that can be skipped to. 

Four month old necro, nice. The approach that was taken by EAWare did not work, unless one considers a game that's slowly bled population numbers over the last decade is somehow a boon in their eyes. Their business model has kept this game afloat, not grown it. Players slowly continue to leave year after year, that's not a subjective opinion, that's a fact, therefore their business model failed to grow it, or at the bare minimum, maintain it. Look at the General forums here, compared to ten years ago, it's desolate, and it's not because people are playing the game and posting instead. 

There's a suggestion area on this forum, post your ideas there, likely won't do anything, but posting them here will do far less. 

[AFadedMemory]

59 minutes ago, Pirana said:

Four month old necro, nice.

😂 sorry the tread was bumped by a previous post, and since its was 2 pages long I didn’t really pay attention to the posting dates ha ha ha! 

[Pirana]

17 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

😂 sorry the tread was bumped by a previous post, and since its was 2 pages long I didn’t really pay attention to the posting dates ha ha ha! 

I'll help you out with this: https://forums.swtor.com/forum/145-suggestion-box/

[recalcitrantIre]

On 3/2/2024 at 6:00 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

The first piece of advice is this to the Dev's. Don't simplify the game more, a simpler game sounds better in concept but making systems boring and grindy is not fun for players of any type. Players would rather learn systems that way it feels more rewarding when they master them. 

[snipped]

Regarding gearing as a whole. Flashpoint, Operation, and PVP Tokens are removed and replaced with one generic currency. Conquest Matrixes, these are obtainable in any form of content at endgame.

nice work contradicting yourself

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 7/6/2024 at 12:43 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Mark Biggs PVP content creator - Gone 

Faltun PVP Content Creator - Gone

Cease Faith PVP Content Creator - Hiatus 

SWTOR Central Content Creator - Heavily Disgruntled but passionate towards wanting the game to be better 

Vulkk Content Creator - Disgruntled

Kind of funny and shows you haven't been around for long, the biggest content creator probably bigger than all of those that quit the game and still are was dulfy and she quit long ago. Don't recall if it was in late 3.0 or 4.0

[SentinalMasterWW]

8 hours ago, recalcitrantIre said:

nice work contradicting yourself

There is a difference between the two points I suggested. 

The first point I made is that reducing Core systems to the simplest form is what is hurting the game. I.e something like PVP.

Regarding my changes to gearing, it's literally to streamline it and reduce the bloat of currencies. 

 

[ronin_chi_lao]

10 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

The first point I made is that reducing Core systems to the simplest form is what is hurting the game. I.e something like PVP.

They could bring back Ranked PvP and have it subbed access only. 

I'm sure it was mentioned before. But.

If they did it there could be new rewards. Not just toys or gear but exclusive unlocks for legacy etc.

The legacy system needs more love not "venture system" like raising the level cap on it.

(I was not impressed with Bessie)

[SentinalMasterWW]

4 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Kind of funny and shows you haven't been around for long, the biggest content creator probably bigger than all of those that quit the game and still are was dulfy and she quit long ago. Don't recall if it was in late 3.0 or 4.0

I do remember dulfy but I didn't bring it up because it wasn't the point? 

The creators I brought up were the ones that left Because of 7.0 or are very much disliking the direction the game is heading 

[xxSHOONYxx]

6 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I do remember dulfy but I didn't bring it up because it wasn't the point? 

The creators I brought up were the ones that left Because of 7.0 or are very much disliking the direction the game is heading 

Because the game was going downhill for a long while. It's not something that happened in 7.0

[Pirana]

8 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I do remember dulfy but I didn't bring it up because it wasn't the point? 

The creators I brought up were the ones that left Because of 7.0 or are very much disliking the direction the game is heading 

As I stated in a previous post, which should be in this thread somewhere, this downward spiral started long before 7.0 occurred. 7.0 was miniscule in the overall scope of this game and its numerous mistakes. These mistakes go back as far as beta with staff rarely listening to its player base and it has continued to steamroll since. 

Your starting date according to your profile is 2017, which going off some of your assertions, is spot on, that means not only did you miss the previous six years, but you also weren't here for beta, so the fact that you're concluding that the issues were due to 7.0 or even partially due to 7.0, you're wrong. That update, expansion, whatever you want to call it, didn't help, but that luge was on that snowy hill long before that update. The old beta forums are no longer here, but you can go back and read the PTS notes from when we first launched, and in those PTS notes, you will clearly see what has transpired. 

Those content creators you mentioned such as Mark Biggs, I've watched a couple of his videos on YT, all of his content is from two years ago, where is all the content prior to those two years? Doesn't exist. Another player that came in and vanished.  

Old sites such as Noxxic, which wasn't a good min/max site, but still out there, through the numerous parsers we've gone through over the years, notably Torparse, the first and now defunct parser this game had. The one site or player that has persisted over the last thirteen years is LadyAdmiral, aka Swtorista on Youtube and her countless hours of work put in. All or most others have all left, this is not a 7.0 issue. This is a lack content issue, same as we had at launch. One Operation in EV, and roughly seven FP's on both sides of the factions, that was it, there was no end game other than just that, nada, zero, zilch, people left and they left quickly. This is a lack of content issue, which I'm sure you know already, but it didn't start with 7.0, not remotely close to it.

This game's reputation is about as good as SWG's when it comes to Star Wars MMO's, and this is not a compliment. lol 

[SentinalMasterWW]

1 hour ago, Pirana said:

As I stated in a previous post, which should be in this thread somewhere, this downward spiral started long before 7.0 occurred. 7.0 was miniscule in the overall scope of this game and its numerous mistakes. These mistakes go back as far as beta with staff rarely listening to its player base and it has continued to steamroll since. 

Your starting date according to your profile is 2017, which going off some of your assertions, is spot on, that means not only did you miss the previous six years, but you also weren't here for beta, so the fact that you're concluding that the issues were due to 7.0 or even partially due to 7.0, you're wrong. That update, expansion, whatever you want to call it, didn't help, but that luge was on that snowy hill long before that update. The old beta forums are no longer here, but you can go back and read the PTS notes from when we first launched, and in those PTS notes, you will clearly see what has transpired. 

Those content creators you mentioned such as Mark Biggs, I've watched a couple of his videos on YT, all of his content is from two years ago, where is all the content prior to those two years? Doesn't exist. Another player that came in and vanished.  

Old sites such as Noxxic, which wasn't a good min/max site, but still out there, through the numerous parsers we've gone through over the years, notably Torparse, the first and now defunct parser this game had. The one site or player that has persisted over the last thirteen years is LadyAdmiral, aka Swtorista on Youtube and her countless hours of work put in. All or most others have all left, this is not a 7.0 issue. This is a lack content issue, same as we had at launch. One Operation in EV, and roughly seven FP's on both sides of the factions, that was it, there was no end game other than just that, nada, zero, zilch, people left and they left quickly. This is a lack of content issue, which I'm sure you know already, but it didn't start with 7.0, not remotely close to it.

This game's reputation is about as good as SWG's when it comes to Star Wars MMO's, and this is not a compliment. lol 

SWTOR had a lot of missed marks I won't argue against that. Throughout its entire lifespan it never really got an identity of its own I guess is the best way to describe it. Or really was able to find its footing in the MMO market.

7.0 didn't start the snowball, this game has had a ton of problems since well its inception so to say but it definitely pushed it down the hill much faster.

Like I also stated I only played for a limited time at launch SWTOR, so I was never deep into the launch SWTOR atmosphere and how the game was back than. 

 

 

 

 

[Pirana]

15 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

SWTOR had a lot of missed marks I won't argue against that. Throughout its entire lifespan it never really got an identity of its own I guess is the best way to describe it. Or really was able to find its footing in the MMO market.

7.0 didn't start the snowball, this game has had a ton of problems since well its inception so to say but it definitely pushed it down the hill much faster.

Like I also stated I only played for a limited time at launch SWTOR, so I was never deep into the launch SWTOR atmosphere and how the game was back than. 

 

 

 

 

No, 7.0 didn't push it down the hill much faster, it continued it. 

[DWho]

While 7.0 didn't start the decline it was very likely the biggest disappointment of all the expansions. It was billed as the 10th Anniversary Celebration and fell flat. It was delayed from its original launch because the Playtest version was so full of bugs it was borderline unplayable. When it did launch, a lot of the problems were still there from the PTS. For a 10th anniversary, one would have expected more than an hour or two of story that was the same for every class, a broken required flashpoint, and lots of changes that really didn't improve the game (not to mention some of the crippling bugs that were pointed out in the PTS version and more or less ignored by the Devs). Let's be frank, UI changes is not a celebration of 10 years of SWTOR and that was a big part of what the development effort went into. Those kinds of changes are ones that should be spread across all the .X releases, not the "flagship" release.

7.0 wasn't the start of the downfall, but may end up being the nail in the coffin. It managed to upset just about the entire playerbase.

[Pirana]

4 hours ago, DWho said:

While 7.0 didn't start the decline it was very likely the biggest disappointment of all the expansions. It was billed as the 10th Anniversary Celebration and fell flat. It was delayed from its original launch because the Playtest version was so full of bugs it was borderline unplayable. When it did launch, a lot of the problems were still there from the PTS. For a 10th anniversary, one would have expected more than an hour or two of story that was the same for every class, a broken required flashpoint, and lots of changes that really didn't improve the game (not to mention some of the crippling bugs that were pointed out in the PTS version and more or less ignored by the Devs). Let's be frank, UI changes is not a celebration of 10 years of SWTOR and that was a big part of what the development effort went into. Those kinds of changes are ones that should be spread across all the .X releases, not the "flagship" release.

7.0 wasn't the start of the downfall, but may end up being the nail in the coffin. It managed to upset just about the entire playerbase.

I would argue that 6.0 was the worst thing, other than the premature launch of this game as their biggest mistake. You don't give an entire player base a way to get min/maxed in under a week without there being some sort of repercussions. Numbers wise, I'm sure 7.0 was worse than 6.0, or any other 'expansion', simply for that reason. Casual or story mode players never had to step into an Operation or Flashpoint to get BIS, then that carpet was ripped out from underneath them. There was no foresight in how 6.0 was implemented, handled and ultimately changed.

The launch of this game was so bad that people were leaving in droves by the end of the first couple of months, bad enough that the game went FTP in under a year, in addition to them introducing the CM, without those two, this game closes years ago. We started out with just over a hundred servers, within hours people were on the forums and Twitter complaining about the server queues, within a few weeks, the servers rose to well over 200, people get to end game, realize there's almost nothing to do, people start leaving. Server consolidations eventually commence due to there being so many dead servers. So again, yes, 7.0 contributed to what has occurred over the years, but it started at launch, not with 7.0.

Regarding your final comment, if 7.0 was the final nail in the coffin, these tiny updates wouldn't still be trickling in, it would be 100% in maintenance mode. Then I could get behind this assumption that 7.0 is what did this game in, and even that's stretching it, when the bulk of the damage was done at launch.

[recalcitrantIre]

On 7/9/2024 at 7:46 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

There is a difference between the two points I suggested. 

The first point I made is that reducing Core systems to the simplest form is what is hurting the game. I.e something like PVP.

Regarding my changes to gearing, it's literally to streamline it and reduce the bloat of currencies.

the current gearing currencies aren't bloat no matter how many times the simple-minded will complain about it, they're meant to provide different reward streams for different types of content

and "streamline" is near universally an industry buzzword to misdirect from the fact that they're simplifying things

[tritiya]

On 3/1/2024 at 9:30 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Keep in mind that is from my knowledge of 6.0 which was like 3-4 years ago, but people would sell certain mods on the GTN that had certain amplifications like Armor Penetration, etc. They would sell it for really high prices and this in turn added more to the inflation. This isn't even bringing up Augments which still to this day are grossly overpriced. 

I do remember the ability to reroll amplifications as a massive credit sink, but overall 6.0 helped contribute to the inflation, I remember back in 5.0 inflation was nowhere near as bad as what it is today.

Trading things between people doesn't generate inflation. And if the GTN is used it's actually anti-inflationary (trade taxes). Injecting fresh credits in the economy is pro-inflationary (rewards from missions, junk drops, bugs and exploits, nothing to spend the acquired money on...).