Who feels better about SWTOR's future now that we've heard from Broadsword's president?

[Pirana]

2 hours ago, TonyTricicolo said:

What is it with Star Wars MMOs? First SWG now Swtor. I just don't get it. They're given the golden goose that poos golden eggs and they still mess it up. I mean jeez, you'd think Disney/EA/Bioware/Broadsword would learn something from SOE's mistakes? Those who don't follow history are bound to repeat it. 

Yeah, I don't get it either, we've both been there with both games. They're handed the pot of gold and toss it to the side. As many issues as Blizzard had a couple of years ago with the issues behind the scenes, I would have loved to have them develop a SW game, It really is nothing short of laughable. It's like, how do you screw things up this bad. lol

Edited October 17, 2023 by Pirana

[TonyTricicolo]

1 hour ago, sharpenedstick said:

The issue is that MMO devs have a very special sort of arrogance that makes them produce the game they want to make, not the game the players want to play. There is a general belief among MMO devs that players don't know what they want, and even when they do, it's stupid.

This is why dev teams are obsessed with their own pet projects, why dev team turnover results in massive conceptual changes to core mechanics like gearing with little to no testing (and which get changed by the next turnover), and why bug fix and QoL improvements just don't motivate them.

For SWTOR, it's obvious the devs don't play the game, because there are long standing bugs and QoL issues, some going all the way back to launch, that anyone who played the game and had the ability to fix would fix.

Biosword's decision to retain the same time serving failures who brought the game to its current state do not inspire confidence. We'll have to see if it really was EA holding them back, but let's say I doubt it.

Brilliant!!!

[OlBuzzard]

**  First of all let's face it ... to PROPERLY develop and maintain a MMO it is incredibly expensive.  IMO much of the profits from SWTOR went to other projects (at the direction of someone WAY up the food chain in EA).  That really didn't help matters.  IMO that was one of the major reasons that the cutbacks began.
** Without rehearsing the history of the game ... it was cut back in numerous ways.  Companions, the removal of one of the key components of SWTOR (the individualized story lines for each of the 8 classes), PvP collapse, failed GSF strategies (or a total lack thereof), BUGS... BUGS ...and even MORE BUGS (many of which still exist today) ...  MAJOR disappointments: one after another (on a variety of subjects including game mechanics and gearing systems).  ALL of which ended up with major negativity and impacts that are still being felt.  It should be noted that people who spent their hard-earned money on the game were in no way responsible for those decisions!  We were not the blame!
** Some of us wish that there was some way to still salvage things ... while still others pretend that most of this is unjust criticism.  Frankly I held out hope as long as I could.  Talk is cheap (as someone else posted).  Action is needed (also as posted by someone else).  

Also I had to finally realize that as much as I wish I could change some things ... I can't.  Those who have that ability and (or) responsibility ... WONT!  I can't change that either!  Nor can I change someone's attitude or how they see my point of view.  There is only so much that any of us can do.  After that ... the ball is in someone else's hands.  And IMO ... it long past time for the differences be laid aside and move this game forward.

I wish that just one time the massive wall between the developers and fans could be torn down.  But I don't see that happening either.

Frustration???  That doesn't even begin to cover it!

[Jazulfi]

At risk of bringing Forum Wrath down upon me, you all sound a bit unhinged. There could be many more reasons, and combinations thereof, as to why SWTOR hasn't had a lot of new content, and for the less popular decisions (as you see them), without it being a lack of care or because the devs despise the player base.

Whatever problems there were behind the scenes, there are several big orgs involved and that in itself makes things complicated. Who knows what's happened? But the devs can't tell us because they probably aren't allowed to. With that in mind, they also can't promise anything in case it doesn't happen. I can't imagine the move to Broadsword happened overnight, and I suspect it's been a very long difficult process for them. I'm pleased SWTOR made it far enough for the move to occur, rather than a shut down.

I grant you the lack of communication is frustrating, and the various other problems are very disappointing, but to dump all the blame on the devs, when we have absolutely NO idea why it all happened, is a mistake, imho.

By all means complain about why you think the decisions are bad, or express disappointment about the content drought, but making up paranoid and angry stories - for what's clearly been a complicated difficult process - is a bit bonkers.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Jazulfi

[Char_Ell]

4 hours ago, meddani said:

"7.4 was already in dev. at bioware"

"what do you mean it's already done since june and they're just waiting?!"

can't with some of you guys lol

Recommend next time you make it clear yourself instead of letting others clarify your position for you.  I guess what you're saying is you're looking for the first new content announcement from Broadsword, content that was not originally announced before the studio transition.  The introduction from Broadsword's president did nothing in that regard other than to state that "our plans are already starting to take shape for new and exciting things."

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, Jazulfi said:

At risk of bringing Forum Wrath down upon me, you all sound a bit unhinged. There could be many more reasons, and combinations thereof, as to why SWTOR hasn't had a lot of new content, and for the less popular decisions (as you see them), without it being a lack of care or because the devs despise the player base.

Whatever problems there were behind the scenes, there are several big orgs involved and that in itself makes things complicated. Who knows what's happened? But the devs can't tell us because they probably aren't allowed to. With that in mind, they also can't promise anything in case it doesn't happen. I can't imagine the move to Broadsword happened overnight, and I suspect it's been a very long difficult process for them. I'm pleased SWTOR made it far enough for the move to occur, rather than a shut down.

I grant you the lack of communication is frustrating, and the various other problems are very disappointing, but to dump all the blame on the devs, when we have absolutely NO idea why it all happened, is a mistake, imho.

By all means complain about why you think the decisions are bad, or express disappointment about the content drought, but making up paranoid and angry stories - for what's clearly been a complicated difficult process - is a bit bonkers.

Just kind of an FYI ...  I personally don't harbor any ill will towards anyone who is still hopeful that things will work out.  It's just that so much of what we have seen and heard for quite some time now overshadows the most optimistic views of what we are actually receiving as a finished product.

IMO ... this game has lost considerably more than it has gained in so many areas.  (Hense my comment regarding a variety of subjects).  I also believe that it would take several months of focused efforts to begin laying a solid foundation for the future expanse and growth of SWTOR.

Tell ya what.  I'll go out on a limb (as long as someone doesn't fire up a chainsaw first) ...  Let me propose a suggested list of areas to work on (must be done in conjunction with the continuation of the story line(s) ).  Feel free to add to the list!
**  Return of the 8 class story lines
** Restoration of GSF
** Restoration of PvP (it's been suggested to review to the era at or about 3.3.2 would be a good place to start)
** Gearing system revamp / rewards based ..  etc!
** GS series still ... never mind ..  I just about give up on this one! [/facepalm]
** New Ops ..  Open area Mobs ...

Note:  this list is not that extensive.  I'd prefer others to chime in!

Sooo  how does this work with OP?  Simple:  There's tons of stuff that many of us are (were) and some are STILL looking forward to hearing about!  I'm guessing that many are waiting to see what happens tomorrow. Maybe?

Some of us are now simply saying..  "Enough talk ... Action is needed!"  As someone else said: "Talk is cheap".

I hope this makes sense!

[casirabit]

35 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Just kind of an FYI ...  I personally don't harbor any ill will towards anyone who is still hopeful that things will work out.  It's just that so much of what we have seen and heard for quite some time now overshadows the most optimistic views of what we are actually receiving as a finished product.

IMO ... this game has lost considerably more than it has gained in so many areas.  (Hense my comment regarding a variety of subjects).  I also believe that it would take several months of focused efforts to begin laying a solid foundation for the future expanse and growth of SWTOR.

Tell ya what.  I'll go out on a limb (as long as someone doesn't fire up a chainsaw first) ...  Let me propose a suggested list of areas to work on (must be done in conjunction with the continuation of the story line(s) ).  Feel free to add to the list!
**  Return of the 8 class story lines
** Restoration of GSF
** Restoration of PvP (it's been suggested to review to the era at or about 3.3.2 would be a good place to start)
** Gearing system revamp / rewards based ..  etc!
** GS series still ... never mind ..  I just about give up on this one! [/facepalm]
** New Ops ..  Open area Mobs ...

Note:  this list is not that extensive.  I'd prefer others to chime in!

Sooo  how does this work with OP?  Simple:  There's tons of stuff that many of us are (were) and some are STILL looking forward to hearing about!  I'm guessing that many are waiting to see what happens tomorrow. Maybe?

Some of us are now simply saying..  "Enough talk ... Action is needed!"  As someone else said: "Talk is cheap".

I hope this makes sense!

Thank you for this.  I have spent the last few months (since feb) playing FFXIV and I love it. I love the stories.  I used to split my time between here and there (which is one of the reason I just got to the 3rd expansion in FFXIV) until recently. I hardly log in and I gave the leadership of the guild to a friend so I didn't have that to worry with.

[Whykara]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

Some of us are now simply saying..  "Enough talk ... Action is needed!"

Definitely not enough talk. Talk and action are not mutually exclusive. Yes, we need action, but we also need a lot more communication from the devs.

[Lord_Malganus]

4 hours ago, Jazulfi said:

At risk of bringing Forum Wrath down upon me, you all sound a bit unhinged.

So far, no one is unhinged. Simply being realistic and stating their opinions.

After acquiring this game, Broadsword, a company known for maintenance mode management, remained silent for months. Then used an introduction post, attempting to sell the premise of continued development by retaining the same time serving failures responsible for all current state of affairs.

Tomorrow we find out more.

[TrixxieTriss]

11 hours ago, Pirana said:

Nailed it.

I've mentioned this before and probably somewhere in this thread. Just because someone knows how to develop a game, doesn't always translate to them knowing what gamers want, this has been one of the biggest issues with this game from very early on, they rarely listen to the feedback of the players. This is their game and they can design it how they want, no different than how we choose to spend our money. Games such as WoW, GW2, ESO, FF14 just to name a few listen to their players and not surprisingly, have had great success over the years. No doubt arrogance is part of the issue with all of this. 

Pretty much this 👆

I’ve come to conclusion that it’s institutionalised dev & management hubris & arrogance.
Something that was brought into the team culture from the beginning by someone & has only metastasised through everyone in the team over the years.  

They still sort of listened to some feedback up until 3.2. After that period, it’s like “our way or the highway attitude” has permeated every release. And legitimate player criticism & feedback is ignored by doubling down on the things players are complaining about. It’s often felt like they were giving us the finger & laughing cause some of us have put up with it for so long. 

[OlBuzzard]

6 hours ago, Whykara said:

Definitely not enough talk. Talk and action are not mutually exclusive. Yes, we need action, but we also need a lot more communication from the devs.

Please believe me when I tell you that I understand what you are driving at.  However, please consider this:
** There is a difference between talking / discussing or suggesting ideas AND actual communication.  IMO this is one of the greater benefits of a good forum board.  We often come here to discuss matters.  Some of us are considerably more passionate than others.  (Nothing wrong with that really).  IMO discussions can be very beneficial.   It gives all of us an opportunity to see things from a wide variety of viewpoints.
** Action being taken as a result of simply discussing matters is not necessarily the result of communication.  In fact, some might argue the point that the actions that follow debates or other forms of discussing any given subject can often be misdirected or even at times the opposite of the intended or desired results IF actual communication has not taken place.  A good example seen in this forum board is asking for input... receiving it ... then promptly ignoring what has been said.  That is nothing more than people discussing things (IMPORTANT things).  That is also something that is needed.  BUT what is REALLY even MORE important is when ideas are successfully communicated by BOTH parties and then acted upon. 
** The actual result of ideas that are successfully communicated will generate actions that are in fact more clearly understood and appreciated by more than just one party.  I promise you that I'm not trying to be argumentative nor split the fine hair of semantics.

To that end ... YES I agree with you we do need more actual communication and NOT just presenting ideas or statements that have pointed intent.  Discussion is good.  Debate is often needed and also can be a good thing.  BUT without actual communication the end result is all too often sadly disappointing.  That sort of thing simply doesn't work.  

BTW... on a side note:  I will be taking care of some very important personal business tomorrow.  I will not be able to attend to the live stream.  I'm hoping that it will be posted for review at a later time tomorrow so that I can at least see it.  (That way I can draw my own conclusions).  

My apologies if this is a bit too long winded.

Best of luck to all of us!

[Thepyrethatburns]

At this point, I am fairly confident it'll last until October 2025 even if it does go into maintenance mode.  After Windows 10 sunsets....  It's transitioned to cloud servers so it won't be quite as big a deal as when they finally killed off XP support but they'll probably still eventually pull "Upgrade or die".

At that point, it may be decided that it's time to let the old dog die.

And since everyone keeps talking about their post-SWTOR plans:  Hell, I save $15 a month and, instead of 4 days of the week doing something with SWTOR, I can spend all 7 days on a monumental backlog of games.  Given my lack of interest in ever doing another open-ended time sink like SWTOR, there will be comparable parts sadness and relief that I can close the book on this chapter of my life.

[denavin]

On 10/13/2023 at 5:31 PM, denavin said:

Talk is cheap.
Actions speak louder than words.

Time will tell if things get better or worse.

I've said it before and I'll say it again....

Only TIME will tell if things get better or worse.

Yes the Live Stream was "Nice" but it's still only a lot of talk and allot of nice Pictures. I eagerly await the results.

[Lord_Malganus]

14 minutes ago, denavin said:

Only TIME will tell if things get better or worse.

Yes the Live Stream was "Nice" but it's still only a lot of talk and allot of nice Pictures. I eagerly await the results.

Time always tells the same story here, awaiting results is always futile.

[TahliahCOH]

Shrug. The things that are making me not want to play (I took a few months completely off the game because I was just not having fun anymore) are still there. QT costs are stupid, charging me MILLIONS to give away crafting mats that I got for the cost of running a crew skill mission a few times, making it ridiculously expensive to clear out unwanted speeders by giving them away to new players, and etc. just make the game unfun. I have a friend who rarely plays, and now I can't even give him mats to finish unlocking Dr. Lokkin because it would literally cost 100 million credits just to GIVE AWAY MY OWN MATS. Grrr.

My giving someone a speeder or a stack of mats to unlock Lokkin does NOT contribute in any way to inflation in the game, and these are ridiculous charges for just helping other players, charges that make helping anyone completely untenable.

The QT costs (yeah, yeah, adjusted to level now, whatever, it's still 5k to travel across Coruscant, so stupid, I just take the taxi . . . and don't even get cq credit for it since almost all my toons are lvl 80). 

For me, the game has already been ruined, and I am just waiting for my sub to run out to cancel. It's just not fun because I actually ENJOY helping other players, and now I cannot unless I start playing the market to earn trillions, which is not something I have any interest in (and is one thing that WOULD actually contribute to inflation). So stupid.