Dear Broadsword,

[ronin_chi_lao]

One thing is certain.
The game is still with the same publisher so there's still "hope". 
If that ever changes, depending on who would accept the game, then that would make me worry even more.
Still need to wait for next year's content to really know for sure.

~peace, mind and soul

unknown_sage

[OlBuzzard]

8 hours ago, Spikanor said:

this game has still a tremendous potential but there never use it at all in a good way.

the crafting system in this game is good and there do notting with it to keep it also good working like adding new things in the game to craft.

look at the new armor system its a compleet waste of the crafting system what was a good thing to craft your own mods to upgrade you armor with.

what is also wrong is that there add something in this game and in the next expension it gets remove after 1 year a lot of time's.

there need to ask there self first good why are players leaving the game. what are the reasons, and how can we chance it.

the most commen reason i can think about why players are leaving is that the developers destory things more in there expensions/update's then doing things good.

take there credit sink idea's players do not like it at all to pay for trade's and have a tax increase for the GTN also that sub players need to pay for the quick travel and so on.

that are more idea's to give players a reason to leave then to stay.

a other reason can also be that players have lost there trust in the development team for developing new contant.

remember the 7.0 expension how big of a screw up it not was and how many players are not pist off from it by the big screw up there have done.

Over the last several years there has been literally dozens of players with many sound, reasonable suggestions that cover many things from a wide variety of perspectives.
** Some were critiques over the released material.  Granted some folks were simply blunt, rude and in some cases simply letting off steam.  Yet there were many who were trying to offer just criticism (often which over the years has been largely ignored).  It should be noted that this is not a blanket statement to indicate that the community has been ignored all of the time on all subjects.
** Some areas such as PvP, crafting, GSF, armor / gear, repeatable, daily activities on multiple level of difficulties have all been suffering for some time now.  Many discussions in these areas have been posted for some time now by players such as @TrixxieTriss and @Nee-Elder.  That is not to say that there hasn't been many, many more ... just that these two names come to my mind at this time. 
** Some people are more direct in their speculation, while others are interested in factual material and seek proof from even the development team in areas such as discussing difficulties and the ever-fearful BUGS.
** This community is as diverse as the world in which we live in.  And yet ... is that not what Star Wars is a reflection of? 

You mentioned the potential of this game.  I have only seen such potential one other time in a different genre.  That game was wasted.  Today it is only an empty shell of the potential it once had.  And as the old saying goes "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!"

Hopefully, as we look to the future of SWTOR there will manage to be some things fixed that have been neglected for so long... and perhaps some old wounds healed between the players (AKA customers) ... and those that develop the game.  In the end it's my hope that cooler heads will prevail and recognize both the potential of SWTOR and the genuine honest critiques that have been made (not just recently for the few of us that remain) ... the overall BIG PICTURE (past, present and future) ... and make a forward progression that is so disparately needed.

[TheVoyant]

Firm believer when the devs are honest with themselves and the base hope exists. Until they're willing to accept criticism in stride and grow from it I don't think its possible to grow in a positive direction.

The problem is they've always turned a blind eye or dismissed information with little engagement. Whether thats the forums, PTS, etc.

This base will give them everything they need to make a better & more profitable product willingly. All they need do is let that happen & accept the help. 

Even the Devs I dislike the most, I would sing praises of if they simply said "We screwed up, we're sorry, how do we fix it?" And I'd be rallying others to give them a fair chance to grow and build the game.

They've always had a VERY tolerant and loyal base bc its Star Wars, appreciating it would go a long long way. 

[Spikanor]

@OlBuzzard

but the reason is also to blame to the developers and the company like EA that are doing things compleet wrong.

the reason players leave is the lack of new contant ( sadly that has become more worse so far with broadsword then it was with bioware) the lack of fixing bugs is also one, and most of all there make from things only more worse and a bigger mess from it then doing things right what works good.

i think its better for this game if a compleet new company is going to run it and not a company like EA at all since there not know how MMORPG game's work at all since in mmorpg game's you need to keep investing money in it to earn money from it.

the events in this game are old more so players sometime's get sick of then since its the same event again with notting news in it.

same with the reputation system why not add some more ranks in it and make it higher also to reach the next rank.

take the inflation problem is also there own fault in the first place but how there are fixing it is also wrong since increse a tax on the GTN or add a trade/mail tax is not going to do something good.

what there need to do is chance things back more like give the skills you get not for free but you need to pay for it again.

add things what people like to see return like old crafting schematic's or some other old items maybe and ask credits for it.

stuff like that is helping better then doing something stupid people not like at all and what is not going to work at all.

 

19 hours ago, TheVoyant said:

Even the Devs I dislike the most, I would sing praises of if they simply said "We screwed up, we're sorry, how do we fix it?" And I'd be rallying others to give them a fair chance to grow and build the game.

i think a lot off players will chance there view about the developers if there come clean with things there have mess up that there tell the truth and also tell that there are have done something stupid and it was us fault.

we all know the 7.0 big screw ups there have done to give then more reasons to hate then only more then be nice to then.

[OlBuzzard]

26 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

@OlBuzzard

but the reason is also to blame to the developers and the company like EA that are doing things compleet wrong.

the reason players leave is the lack of new contant ( sadly that has become more worse so far with broadsword then it was with bioware) the lack of fixing bugs is also one, and most of all there make from things only more worse and a bigger mess from it then doing things right what works good.

i think its better for this game if a compleet new company is going to run it and not a company like EA at all since there not know how MMORPG game's work at all since in mmorpg game's you need to keep investing money in it to earn money from it.

the events in this game are old more so players sometime's get sick of then since its the same event again with notting news in it.

same with the reputation system why not add some more ranks in it and make it higher also to reach the next rank.

take the inflation problem is also there own fault in the first place but how there are fixing it is also wrong since increse a tax on the GTN or add a trade/mail tax is not going to do something good.

what there need to do is chance things back more like give the skills you get not for free but you need to pay for it again.

add things what people like to see return like old crafting schematic's or some other old items maybe and ask credits for it.

stuff like that is helping better then doing something stupid people not like at all and what is not going to work at all.

 

i think a lot off players will chance there view about the developers if there come clean with things there have mess up that there tell the truth and also tell that there are have done something stupid and it was us fault.

we all know the 7.0 big screw ups there have done to give then more reasons to hate then only more then be nice to then.

IMO ... I really don't care how we got here! (referring to the overall condition of the game).  The real question is (and has been for a while now)... What are we going to do about it?  (I just mentioned this in another thread).

IMO it is the responsibility of the team to learn from mistakes of the past and to adjust the game as needed in order to see continued improvement and growth.  With the changeover to Broadsword the team has an excellent opportunity to genuinely make some improvement ... clean up as many of the BUGS as possible and begin afresh and anew.  The game will either continue to follow the failed path of 7.0 (gearing / GS styled releases / less and less story and content / dead class development) or it will change for the better.

How those changes will be made and implemented will be up the team.  That is their choice.  At the end of the day we also will have to be responsible enough to make our own choices and either move on ... or stay!  It's just that simple.

[Spikanor]

7 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

With the changeover to Broadsword the team has an excellent opportunity to genuinely make some improvement ... clean up as many of the BUGS as possible and begin afresh and anew.  The game will either continue to follow the failed path of 7.0 (gearing / GS styled releases / less and less story and content / dead class development) or it will change for the better.

i agree with it 100% about this but its not going to work if the same people that have make this mess in the first place are going to chance now and do things right since there have lost a lot of trust from the communety all.

if there wane chance then there most show it today all by cleaning things up by starting to give a compleet story and explain there self about the decision's there have took with the compleet 7.0 mess up as a start to show that there wane chance things.

like: why chose to delay the expension with 2 months 1 week before launch day, why is the story contant so short and keep on with it things there need to clear up.

and we all know how this team works with fixing bug's in this game.

i think you remeber good the old taris bonus serie's bug that took 4 years after the first report to get a replay from the community manager for the first time that it also after that took 3 more years before it was fix.

then if there wane chance there need to listing to the communety members idea's also and think about it to add more idea's if a lot of people like it.

since there are a lot of good credit sink idea's what are much better then the stupid tax's idea's from then so why not listing to the communety idea's.

you also know good about the rumor from few years ago when the big conquest discusion problem has start that it was wierd that 1 guild took all conquest spots so that nobody else can take a spot i bet you know that rumor that has start after that.

[OlBuzzard]

3 hours ago, Spikanor said:

i agree with it 100% about this but its not going to work if the same people that have make this mess in the first place are going to chance now and do things right since there have lost a lot of trust from the communety all.

if there wane chance then there most show it today all by cleaning things up by starting to give a compleet story and explain there self about the decision's there have took with the compleet 7.0 mess up as a start to show that there wane chance things.

like: why chose to delay the expension with 2 months 1 week before launch day, why is the story contant so short and keep on with it things there need to clear up.

and we all know how this team works with fixing bug's in this game.

i think you remeber good the old taris bonus serie's bug that took 4 years after the first report to get a replay from the community manager for the first time that it also after that took 3 more years before it was fix.

then if there wane chance there need to listing to the communety members idea's also and think about it to add more idea's if a lot of people like it.

since there are a lot of good credit sink idea's what are much better then the stupid tax's idea's from then so why not listing to the communety idea's.

you also know good about the rumor from few years ago when the big conquest discusion problem has start that it was wierd that 1 guild took all conquest spots so that nobody else can take a spot i bet you know that rumor that has start after that.

Maybe...  Maybe not!  A lot of what happens within the next few months will pretty much tell what is realistically to be expected from SWTOR.  The simple fact is that they (the dev. team) are under new management.  That at least suggests the possibility of change (in a good way).  Does this mean that it will ABSOLUTELY happen?  No!  It does not!  But what I can tell you for a certainty is that many of us old timers around here are just about on our last nerve.  Even someone as conservative as myself.  Had the game not been passed on to Broadsword I would have terminated my subscription?

WHY?  Primarily due to the total lack of someone listening to input from the community EVEN when it was specifically requested... it was ignored.  SWTOR has been hurting in so many ways for so long.  And yet a cold shoulder has been offered to some of the most faithful and (in some cases) dedicated people in this community.  I am hoping that will change.

Do I expect them to do things exactly the way I want it done?  Oh good grief NO ... and hundred times NO! (** see note at end of thread).  I really hate repeating myself over and over (sounds too much like a stuck record) ...  BUT the simple fact is that is a LOT that can be learned from the history of this game .. it's good times ... and the bad.  There are always possibilities.  

** special note:  Come to think of it .. there were two ideas that I did come up with that were pretty good.  But I know they will never be used!  But that's life in fast lane in the world of MMO games. 

[Spikanor]

26 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Maybe...  Maybe not!  A lot of what happens within the next few months will pretty much tell what is realistically to be expected from SWTOR.  The simple fact is that they (the dev. team) are under new management.  That at least suggests the possibility of change (in a good way).  Does this mean that it will ABSOLUTELY happen?  No!  It does not!  But what I can tell you for a certainty is that many of us old timers around here are just about on our last nerve.  Even someone as conservative as myself.  Had the game not been passed on to Broadsword I would have terminated my subscription?

WHY?  Primarily due to the total lack of someone listening to input from the community EVEN when it was specifically requested... it was ignored.  SWTOR has been hurting in so many ways for so long.  And yet a cold shoulder has been offered to some of the most faithful and (in some cases) dedicated people in this community.  I am hoping that will change.

Do I expect them to do things exactly the way I want it done?  Oh good grief NO ... and hundred times NO! (** see note at end of thread).  I really hate repeating myself over and over (sounds too much like a stuck record) ...  BUT the simple fact is that is a LOT that can be learned from the history of this game .. it's good times ... and the bad.  There are always possibilities.  

** special note:  Come to think of it .. there were two ideas that I did come up with that were pretty good.  But I know they will never be used!  But that's life in fast lane in the world of MMO games. 

 

from that quiting part is notting new at all thats something a lot have told all with the 7.0 expension when there have read the expension note's that if this keeps going on that there going to quit.

i have also quit the game few weeks after the release of the 7.0 expension since its was so lame,pointless and weak to call it a expension more.

the only reason i have come back is to see if broadsword is doing its job good what bioware compleet lacks.

and if there are no chance's make in how the new management is going to see the communety i quit also the game again.

and for so far with update 7.3.1 is that not looking good at all that there are doing a good job with the new management.

Quote

BUT the simple fact is that is a LOT that can be learned from the history of this game .. it's good times ... and the bad.  There are always possibilities.  

you not have to tell me that twice that since i have see it alot with other game's that need to learn from the bad time's and good time's and not do it.

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, Spikanor said:

the reason players leave is the lack of new contant ( sadly that has become more worse so far with broadsword then it was with bioware)

That’s not really fair. It’s too early to tell that. It hasn’t even been 3 months yet. And anything that is released now will still be stuff developed under BioWare. You have to remember that development cycles are at least 6 monthly in advance. Anything you see now until the end of the year was planned & implemented under BioWare. We won’t really be able to see what Broadswords development is all about until early next year. 

[Spikanor]

9 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s not really fair. It’s too early to tell that. It hasn’t even been 3 months yet. And anything that is released now will still be stuff developed under BioWare. You have to remember that development cycles are at least 6 monthly in advance. Anything you see now until the end of the year was planned & implemented under BioWare.

then explane this is to me:

each MMORPG game release a new expension/episode each 6 month's with a lot of new contant to have a good contant flow.

SWTOR release each year 1 big expension so that is all worse.

last year the 7.0 expension got a delay from 2 month's that means it was not going to release in 2021 but in 2022.

now it is 1 year and 6 month's later after the release of the 7.0 expension and we are still in the 7.X update's.

thats 6 month's longer we still are in the 7.X and only become's longer and longer now.

and what is more worse there understaff problem there got at bioware has only now become more worse at broadsword.

9 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

We won’t really be able to see what Broadswords development is all about until early next year.

i think there not have a lot of time left by a lot of communety members at all to wait 1 year to show then what there can do since some people wane see chance more now and not wane wait anymore longer for it.

since now there are all making a lot of big mistake's with the 7.3.1 update so there can chance it now to aviod a big mess again and not have to clean it up later on.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Spikanor

[OlBuzzard]

17 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s not really fair. It’s too early to tell that. It hasn’t even been 3 months yet. And anything that is released now will still be stuff developed under BioWare. You have to remember that development cycles are at least 6 monthly in advance. Anything you see now until the end of the year was planned & implemented under BioWare. We won’t really be able to see what Broadswords development is all about until early next year. 

Agreed!  

In addition to the 6 month cycle ...if I had to guess ... the "leak" of said transaction undoubtedly affected some timetables as well.  That being said we should be seeing some small changes along the way in management style.  Just a few words here and there (from the right people) would go along way with indicating better things to come.   And I'm not talking about the old sales pitch ... "of new and exciting things".  (I think most of us have heard that line before .... more than once.)

In any case, that was why I went ahead and took another 6 months subscription (just a couple of days ago).  IMO it is completely irrational to simply stomp our feet like children and demand everything overnight.  That accomplishes nothing.  Well ... on second thought it does accomplish a lot ... none of it good.  It gives a clear-cut picture of who we are.  (And for the record ... that's not good).  It should be equally noted that since the overall state of SWTOR is hurting so badly in multiple areas that people have become greatly disillusioned.  That is why it is so important that the next few months are handled more critically than ever.  

Getting things back to a more positive progression in the life expectancy of SWTOR will not be an easy task.  And your initial assessment of 9 to 10 months (perhaps a year) might be correct.  However, there must ALSO be some clear-cut improvements along the way.  

If I could give you an example (I hope this is acceptable).  My first really good bass boat was a 20'1" Champion:  a 201DC (dual console).  I couldn't afford to simply buy one new.  A good friend of mine told me where I could find one that had been in a garage fire.  It was a long shot.  But I went to look at it.  It was covered in black soot from front to back.  The clear-coat finish was gone completely on one side ... but the paint / glitter coat was still attached to the fiberglass.  (BTW...  you can search the internet for a u-tube presentation of a tour through the Phoenix boat plant.  It's quite interesting).  Any way ... (back on track) : the carpet was melted.. the engine would not start, windshields were melted, the throttle control arm damaged ...  I think you get the picture.

To make a long story short:  There were several steps that had to be taken by three different people/companies in order to restore the boat.  
**  Me ... The first thing I did was to take it to a place to use a power washing machine and clean it up.  It was amazing.  While there was a lot heat damage to the boat ... there was still a LOT of it that was not only salvageable ... but in excellent shape.
** The fiberglass / paint / gelcoat repair.  What they did to that boat for absolutely amazing.  WOW.  When they were done it looked as though it had rolled off the showroom floor!!  (No joke ... it was THAT good).
** Mechanical and electrical:  The only thing that was needed for the engine was the replacement of a starter that had been locked up ... and a new engine cowling.  I also had the impeller in the lower unit replaced just to be safe ( it is a primary component acting as the water pump to cool the engine)
** Me for the last steps:  Rub-rail / carpet replacement / windshields and new seats.

I said all of that to say this:
** Just as that boat was not only salvageable but much of it in excellent shape .. this game is no different
** Restoration did not occur overnight.  It took a while.  BUT there were clear-cut changes in improvement even in the early stages of the work that was to be done.
** It also took me realizing that I may not have all of the answers.  I had to rely on the knowledge and (at times) advice of others.
** It also took a tremendous amount of work to complete the project.  AND yet it was done in a timely manner.
** The people who did their work did an outstanding job.  It was done right the first time.  That is not to say that other problems did not occur later on.  There were a few minor things that needed to be replaced later on.  BUT that was also done in a quick and timely manner.

IMO ... this game right now is a lot like that project.  I'm quite aware of the differences.  But without question there are very strong similarities.  

You are correct.  This will not happen over night.  Yet .. there should also be some clear-cut indication of a more positive direction of things to come.

I hope this makes sense.  Oh ... and sorry for the long boring wall of text!

Edited August 23, 2023 by OlBuzzard