AI generated voices for companions ...

[eabevella]

17 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

Yeah Raptus is probably my favorite VA as far as operation bosses are concerned. I really enjoy Soa as well. Lord Karnoth was great in R4 and so was Revan in Temple of Sacrifice... there are so many performances to choose from.

Ah, Lord Kanoth. I hate the insane lizard man's crazy laughter so much he did a GREAT JOB.

[FlameYOL]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, OlBuzzard said:

Exactly ...  And more to the point .. Just exactly what makes some folks think that the software / and someone who knows how to make REALLY GOOD USE of said software is going to make it cheaper?  About the only real cost savings MIGHT be in the fact that a company might not need to hire several personalities in order to finish the script in multiple languages.  BTW... this is not meant to be offensive to those who do VA in languages outside of the native language of the original point of origin from which any game might be released in the future.  Which brings up yet another point:  multi-cultural language barriers.  I have had some dealings in this area (though admittedly very limited) ...but I can tell you that whoever is doing the AI stuff had better be a whiz-kid in a wide variety of cultures.  Otherwise:  it can be VERY embarrassing!

Something tells me that someone who is REALLY THAT good at AI / VA / design and programming will make good money!  If they didn't charge a good amount of money for services rendered in this relatively new area of technology, I'd probably be a bit skeptical.  (You tend to get what you pay for.)

Yeah as someone who's not a native English speaker I can definitely say with full confidence that when someone does a bad dub for a game, we Brazilians tend to notice! Ubisoft got clowned on back when they released AC III with a level in Brazil that had some of the worst dubbing I've seen. VAs clearly not knowing how to pronounce Portuguese words, extremely poor grammar even in the context of just background dialogue. I can't remember if our dub redid the background dialogue for that level or not, it was released a few months after the game had come out and it was actually decent. 

[FlameYOL]

15 hours ago, eabevella said:

Ah, Lord Kanoth. I hate the insane lizard man's crazy laughter so much he did a GREAT JOB.

Yeah I've only done the fight once but the VA really left a mark on me.

[OlBuzzard]

22 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

Yeah as someone who's not a native English speaker I can definitely say with full confidence that when someone does a bad dub for a game, we Brazilians tend to notice! Ubisoft got clowned on back when they released AC III with a level in Brazil that had some of the worst dubbing I've seen. VAs clearly not knowing how to pronounce Portuguese words, extremely poor grammar even in the context of just background dialogue. I can't remember if our dub redid the background dialogue for that level or not, it was released a few months after the game had come out and it was actually decent. 

As a retired purchasing director ...  I've dealt with a few cultures outside the US.  Additionally, I have a few friends scattered across the world:  Kenya / France / Portugal / Spain / Russia / Brazil / the UK / Israel and Japan.  I know enough to know that I DON'T KNOW nearly enough about ANY of those cultures to properly carryout a dialogue that would adequately do justice in communicating a story.  Even though I have the utmost respect for their individual cultures ..  There is no way I could do more than the most basic of greetings (and that only in 3 or 4 lauguages .. TOPS!) 

And yes .. just the proper inflections let alone syntax (sentence structure) makes all of the difference in the world.  Now add to that being able to "SELL the moment" (so-to-speak). 

I'm not saying that someone who is a linguistic expert couldn't eventually compile something that put the sentences together ... But that last part  (selling the moment) .. IMO that's another matter entirely.  That is also the difference between an average (eh .. so-so) actor .. and someone who's good REALLY good at what they do!  Somehow, I just don't see a computer getting that part right (not just yet anyhow.

Now ... comparing that with OP ...  I still think that on a limited scale of what is available and in application to SWTOR .. there might be a limited application!  AND .... depending on the actual cost of said AI implementation into this game ... there might still be some applications / cost savings. (maybe).

[AbsolutGrndZero]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:28 AM, OlBuzzard said:

An AI could not nor should they EVER be utilized to replace or impersonate characters / people of renown such as Mark Hamil's Luke Skywalker or Patrick Stewarts Capt. Picard. or even a clearly recognizable character such as James Bond 007 or in the case of STO:  the Klingon character Worf or (from DS-9) Binjamin Sisko.   Those could (and probably would) draw a quick reaction based on copyright infringements or perhaps (as we are discussing now) ... VA characters rights from those who characters / actors could have specific contract agreements with the companies that originally produced the works.

Frankly this is one industry that can get very complicated in a hurry when discussing this subject.  

Yet ... when we are looking at a market such as the MMO market most (though admittedly not ALL) characters are created for that game even though it is a part of a particular genre (such as SWTOR and STO).  Almos none of these characters (such as Kira Karsen) are mentioned in previous SW lore (that I'm aware of).  That character is realistically the intellectual property of the company that created the personality.  And I'm quite sure that Lucas Film could easily fit in there somewhere.  

Once again this can get complicated.

Bottom line:  I would imagine that this new technology could only be used in cases where there was no previously utilized character has been created or otherwise (as stated above) in order to ensure that no infringements of any legal claim would occur.  

And something tells me that I've still overlooked something important!  Why?  Because this industry can be tricky to navigate from time to time.  And something tells me that the legal fees have just went up in this industry in order to protect everyone involved in it!

But still .. I like the idea of what OP has presented!  

I mean, they've already done it with Darth Vader.  Albeit, they have James Earl Jones blessing, which to me is the ONLY way it should be done.  With the blessing of the actor or the blessing of their estate if they are passed.  But yea, the recent Kenobi show, Darth Vader is 100% AI voiced.

Here is a link to an article about it: https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/26/ai-is-taking-over-the-iconic-voice-of-darth-vader-with-the-blessing-of-james-earl-jones/

Edited July 21, 2023 by AbsolutGrndZero

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On 7/15/2023 at 11:28 AM, OlBuzzard said:

Yet ... when we are looking at a market such as the MMO market most (though admittedly not ALL) characters are created for that game even though it is a part of a particular genre (such as SWTOR and STO).  Almos none of these characters (such as Kira Karsen) are mentioned in previous SW lore (that I'm aware of).  That character is realistically the intellectual property of the company that created the personality.  And I'm quite sure that Lucas Film could easily fit in there somewhere.  

Yeah, that's a non-issue. Even in the case of lets say Lucas's The Clone Wars series.

They took Bo-Katan from that series, put her in the Mandalorian, and the voice actress who played her in the series wasn't the same actress that plays her in the Mandalorian, and obviously in the Mandalorian the voice doesn't sound the same.

But we can also look at that in reverse.

Another example we can use from The Clone Wars series is Darth Maul.

Ray Parks played Darth Maul in the movies. When Lucas brought Darth Maul back in his Clone Wars series, he didn't have Ray Parks do the voice. The voice was done by Sam Witwer, who has done a ton of voice acting. He also did the voice for the character of The Son from the Mortis Arc in that series, and after the voice actor of the Emperor in the series died, he also took over the Emperor's voice in the series after his passing. - He also did the voice of Star Killer in the Force Unleashed series and he did the voice of the Emperor for that series too, that's why when the voice actor from TCWS died, he was the natural choice to take over.

So we can see that the actors that play that on screen and voice actors from the past that are no longer being used for whatever reason, don't need to have them replicated necessarily artificially reproduced. They can just get other people to voice those characters.

I'm not sure about this, but when they say "using the likeness thereof" I know that applies to a visual representation of the character from a live action production (so like Mark Hamill's likeness as Luke on a cup at Burger King for example), yeah, they'll get a small royalty for that, but I'm not sure how much that applies to a voice.

Actors/Voice actors, they move on, they become unavailable, they retire, they pass away, but the characters they played were never their intellectual property. They have no claim to them. They were already copyrighted by the owners/creators of the characters before they even played them.

They need to avail to themselves alternatives for the future. You can't retire a fictional character, that makes them money, and is a character people want to continue see in new media because the original people are no longer an option for whatever reason.

Certainly, authentic is what fans ideally want. But, like lets take Darth Vader as an example. I wanna see him in new media in the future. And if they have to get someone else to play him or voice him, so be it. Hayden Christianson has earned the right to be in that suit. I don't feel that that somehow insults the memory of David Prowse. (And I'm not suggesting that you feel that way. I'm just saying.)

Far as the game is concerned, if they can't afford to pay the voice actors anymore, I'd rather have some other alternative, such as AI or some new voice actor do the role rather than have the game become text based or have to end.

I get some people have moral issues with that, but (with respect) I'd be interested in hearing what they feel would be acceptable alternatives if they simply can't afford to pay those voice actors.

[OlBuzzard]

@WayOfTheWarriorx ... all true!

One thing that this discussion has brought to the surface is just how complex the situation is (or could be).  It's not always cut and dried!
** The rights of those who are providing the VA
** Intellectual property
** VA (other related) talent that is no longer available (for any one of a number of reasons) and yet the story / movie  is not done!
** The nature of the software providing the AI alternatives:  how complex / skilled / cross-culturally accurate (ability to NOT actually sound artificially reproduced) and still "get it right".  This would also include the ability to capture the moment of a particular act or scene as well as an human.
** The skilled ability of those who are utilizing said resources / program(s) to make AI software work as well as it should.

These are just a quick recap off the top of my head (kind of having a senior moment ... not sure if I've overlooked a major point ... my apologies if I did).

[Bigfallenstar]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:28 PM, TonyTricicolo said:

 

I'm confident enough to say it will happen with in the next 10 years. AI is already here and we are essentially Cyborgs. Do you go anywhere without your cellphone? The next stage is augmented reality where neuralink and tech glasses come into play.  Imagine access to your phone without physically using your hands and having information displayed via hud on your glasses. Access to information will be instantaneous. Do you ever question whether light will come on when you flip the light switch in your room? That will be the ease of technology. The cost to make microchips is now negative and almost comparable to the ability of farmers to produce grain. Meaning it will be in everything. We can now make microchips so small it can be mixed with paint making smart homes the future. Costs and prices of technology will not only be affordable it will almost be taken for granted. 

First, stop watching movies like I, Robot, Terminator, or any advanced Sci Fi movie. By the time ai gets that advanced to where we're all like those people from WALL-E, we'll all be Ol buzzard's age wondering what color boat we want to match our fishing rods. Second, do you have a crystal ball that can see the future? Because if you do, tell me next week's Powerball numbers. I've been on losing streak for weeks. But in all seriousness, you're making a lot of assumptions and speculations. Just like the people in the 60's and 70's thought there would be flying cars by now. And as much as people talked, and it's been parodied, infamously by South Park, companies would take a nose dive and be up in lawsuits over replacing all their workers with ai. If the writers' strike is anything to go off of, companies won't be so quick to immediately replace all their workers with robots.

[Stradlin]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:28 PM, OlBuzzard said:

 

Frankly this is one industry that can get very complicated in a hurry when discussing this subject.  

 

Bottom line:  I would imagine that this new technology could only be used in cases where there was no previously utilized character has been created or otherwise (as stated above) in order to ensure that no infringements of any legal claim would occur.  

 

 

Various actors' guilds and such unions are extremely wealthy and influental lobbies that have a ton of leverage in places where it counts.(Like California) I can easily imagine them being able to complicate things a great deal.

In general, humans getting replaced by machines, computers , Ais, various digital solutions  in countless different jobs has been a thing for well over 100 years now. (or 200+, if we wanna  start with piston steam engines and the like) Actors and authors def  shouldn't be special snowflakes in this regard.  If/when AI is so advanced that it truly can outperform a human when it comes to fiction..well, I for one salute my new machine overlords. 

 

Of course, imitation and intellectual thievery  is a huge issue here. Almost everything art-related that AI does has been stolen from human artists. Then again, that is what most human artists do as well. They learn and get influences.

 

 

By default, no actor owns the character they play in any way. It has always been commonplace to replace an actor with another for any number of reasons, while keeping the character otherwise identical and intact. If AI replacing Jennifer Hale would comb through everything Jennifer Hale has ever said and then imitate her..that'd be another matter  I imagine. I think screen actors guild and such have had their actors quite safeguarded in this way long before AI became as clever as they now are.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Stradlin

[NorthernNephilim]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:33 PM, eabevella said:

YOUR WEAKNESS IS IN YOUR BLOOD!

My personal fav boss voice acting is the Dread Master Raptus' VA.

You can't simulate the glee and madness in his or any other Dread Master's lines with AI.

I'm not the appropriate level for Operations, but i watched on Youtube and had a lot of fun - Raptus is indeed crazy and you can feel that in his voice

[TonyTricicolo]

6 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

But in all seriousness, you're making a lot of assumptions and speculations

Am I? 

https://neuralink.com/

 

"Its initial aim was to start planting chips in human brains in 2020, in order to honour a pledge made the year before. It later vowed to get started in 2022."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-65717487

 

Elon Musk Neuralink Interview:

https://youtu.be/OKB1PuclFEo

Edited July 22, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[OlBuzzard]

Response:

[/begin synthetized voice of Robot from Lost in Space] :  DANGER!   DANGER!  WARNING WILL ROBINSON !!!!   DANGER !!! DANGER !!!!

[/C3PO] response to Lost in Space robot:  OH Switch off!!

[/TWKE-4 SR# N22-23T] ...  biddie, biddie, biddie,biddie ... biddie.. biddie

[/Number5] Lookss at TWIKI ... Hey laser lips!!  Your momma was a snow-blower!

[/TWKE-4 ... SR# N22-23T] ...  looks at Number 5 ... "Eat lead sucker!"

[/C3PO] response to TWIKI:  HOW RUDE !!!

[/HK-55] Meatbags can be so confusing!  

[/Terminator] ...  I'll be back !!

Beauty is in the hands of the beholder!

EDIT:  BTW... @Bigfallenstar ...  I'm leaning towards St Croix rods ATM.  (Still deciding on Phoenix) 

😉

Edited July 22, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[Shayddow]

The question will always be how much will AI art be original and how much influenced by human.  

As I am more familiar with classical music, this has always been the case among human composers. Bach influenced Beethoven who influenced Brahms and so on.

Or in Star Wars, John Williams quoted themes from Korngolds' Kings Row, and Holsts the Planets (in particular Mars the Bringer of War).

Machines replacing people working has been a "thing" since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Remember the story of John Henry? 

So we'll just have to see what comes. And I'm close to Old Buzzard's age, but this grandma doesn't go fishing.  😞

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

19 hours ago, TonyTricicolo said:

"Its initial aim was to start planting chips in human brains in 2020, in order to honour a pledge made the year before. It later vowed to get started in 2022."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-65717487

Yeah, well that may be their aim, but if they come and try and do that to me, they're aim better be a lot better than mine.

[FlameYOL]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:33 PM, AbsolutGrndZero said:

I mean, they've already done it with Darth Vader.  Albeit, they have James Earl Jones blessing, which to me is the ONLY way it should be done.  With the blessing of the actor or the blessing of their estate if they are passed.  But yea, the recent Kenobi show, Darth Vader is 100% AI voiced.

Here is a link to an article about it: https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/26/ai-is-taking-over-the-iconic-voice-of-darth-vader-with-the-blessing-of-james-earl-jones/

I hadn't noticed his voice was different but a friend of mine who has a master's degree in music studies did, at the very least James Earl Jones gave his permission and hopefully he was payed fairly for it. 

 

On 7/21/2023 at 10:54 PM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, that's a non-issue. Even in the case of lets say Lucas's The Clone Wars series.

They took Bo-Katan from that series, put her in the Mandalorian, and the voice actress who played her in the series wasn't the same actress that plays her in the Mandalorian, and obviously in the Mandalorian the voice doesn't sound the same.

But we can also look at that in reverse.

Another example we can use from The Clone Wars series is Darth Maul.

Ray Parks played Darth Maul in the movies. When Lucas brought Darth Maul back in his Clone Wars series, he didn't have Ray Parks do the voice. The voice was done by Sam Witwer, who has done a ton of voice acting. He also did the voice for the character of The Son from the Mortis Arc in that series, and after the voice actor of the Emperor in the series died, he also took over the Emperor's voice in the series after his passing. - He also did the voice of Star Killer in the Force Unleashed series and he did the voice of the Emperor for that series too, that's why when the voice actor from TCWS died, he was the natural choice to take over.

So we can see that the actors that play that on screen and voice actors from the past that are no longer being used for whatever reason, don't need to have them replicated necessarily artificially reproduced. They can just get other people to voice those characters.

I'm not sure about this, but when they say "using the likeness thereof" I know that applies to a visual representation of the character from a live action production (so like Mark Hamill's likeness as Luke on a cup at Burger King for example), yeah, they'll get a small royalty for that, but I'm not sure how much that applies to a voice.

Actors/Voice actors, they move on, they become unavailable, they retire, they pass away, but the characters they played were never their intellectual property. They have no claim to them. They were already copyrighted by the owners/creators of the characters before they even played them.

They need to avail to themselves alternatives for the future. You can't retire a fictional character, that makes them money, and is a character people want to continue see in new media because the original people are no longer an option for whatever reason.

Certainly, authentic is what fans ideally want. But, like lets take Darth Vader as an example. I wanna see him in new media in the future. And if they have to get someone else to play him or voice him, so be it. Hayden Christianson has earned the right to be in that suit. I don't feel that that somehow insults the memory of David Prowse. (And I'm not suggesting that you feel that way. I'm just saying.)

Far as the game is concerned, if they can't afford to pay the voice actors anymore, I'd rather have some other alternative, such as AI or some new voice actor do the role rather than have the game become text based or have to end.

I get some people have moral issues with that, but (with respect) I'd be interested in hearing what they feel would be acceptable alternatives if they simply can't afford to pay those voice actors.

I don't believe AI voice acting is in a stage where it can properly emulate someone like Euan Morton or any of the other PC VAs. I'd also be against its usage even if it could, due to the ethical concerns around the question of fairly paying the VA for it. I would be ok with the KOTOR style dialogue being used instead of AI voice-acting, it would make the game a lot less cinematic but at the very least we could continue the story, and provided the writers are able to take advantage of that new format we could even have more choices even if its just different flavor of dialogue. Sometimes they've managed to do that with the KOTOR style dialogue in this game, other times not so much. The possibility of hiring new VAs is also an interesting one to explore, I'd say that for the PC that would be very controversial to say the least, most of us have grown rather attached to our character's voices so I doubt we'd accept new ones. However for newer characters, or in the cases of companions such as Tanno Vik whose original VAs have sadly passed away, I would be ok with said characters getting new voice-actors if the writers decide to use them in future content. Though I also understand there might be some moral quandaries to resolve there as well, is it fair to do so if the original VA passed away? Or is it perhaps better to let that character rest and have the new VA voice a completely new character?

On 7/22/2023 at 6:14 AM, TonyTricicolo said:

Am I? 

https://neuralink.com/

 

"Its initial aim was to start planting chips in human brains in 2020, in order to honour a pledge made the year before. It later vowed to get started in 2022."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-65717487

 

Elon Musk Neuralink Interview:

https://youtu.be/OKB1PuclFEo

Weren't Neurolink chips exploding in monkey's brains or something? I'm not sure I'd trust that inside my head. And I'm all for technological augmentation of humanity, with considerations for human safety and our wellbeing of course.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

13 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

I don't believe AI voice acting is in a stage where it can properly emulate someone like Euan Morton or any of the other PC VAs. I'd also be against its usage even if it could, due to the ethical concerns around the question of fairly paying the VA for it.

Well, I do agree there, I don't think that AI voice acting is at a stage that it can mimic specific individuals voices as to be unnoticeable.

To this second point regarding ethical concerns, respectfully I don't quite share your opinion that. You're certainly entitled to it and I don't find fault with any of it.

For me, I guess, it's more about the legality of it. Would it go against the terms of their contracts and would BW/BS honor their contracts with them. If there was nothing in their contracts that stated that they couldn't/wouldn't consider alternatives to voicing the parts the VAs originally voiced for the characters and what have you, I couldn't find fault with BW/BS if they did do that.

Now, if there was something in their contracts that stated they wouldn't ever allow an alternate way of voicing said characters and that wasn't honored, than I would certainly find fault with them for that and find that unethical.

Even still, I certainly can understand the reasons behind your thoughts on it.

33 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

I would be ok with the KOTOR style dialogue being used instead of AI voice-acting, it would make the game a lot less cinematic but at the very least we could continue the story, and provided the writers are able to take advantage of that new format we could even have more choices even if its just different flavor of dialogue. Sometimes they've managed to do that with the KOTOR style dialogue in this game, other times not so much.

My thoughts on this is that if they did go with a text based format for the future, I kinda see that not much differently than if they used an AI to replace them because even if they went the text based route than the VAs still wouldn't be getting paid which is, I believe, part of the reasoning why some people find the notion unethical, because it would be effecting the VAs livelihood.

38 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

The possibility of hiring new VAs is also an interesting one to explore, I'd say that for the PC that would be very controversial to say the least, most of us have grown rather attached to our character's voices so I doubt we'd accept new ones.

You make a very good point here. And yeah, you're right, a change in the sound of the voices of the characters we've been playing, in many cases for many, many years, would be hard to swallow for sure.

43 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

Though I also understand there might be some moral quandaries to resolve there as well, is it fair to do so if the original VA passed away? Or is it perhaps better to let that character rest and have the new VA voice a completely new character?

Yeah, this one is a bit of a slippery slope in the case of VA's who have unfortunately passed away. There would be need to be some serious consideration given to how that should be handled.

[JenaSalton]

I'm attached to the way my characters and favourite companions/main NPCs sound. I want to keep their voices for the entirety of the game (which I want to last forever and ever), but obviously that's not realistic. As other people have mentioned, life happens and there's no guarantee that a voice actor will always be around to voice a certain character. When that situation arises, I think the best solution would be to replace the voice actor with another person - preferably someone who can do a similar voice, but as long as they can do a good job with the character, I'd be happy after a bit of an adjustment period. 

If, for whatever reason, the games entire budget for paying voice actors disappears, I'd be questioning a lot of things about how the game is being managed and how much longer it would be around for. But, if it was going to continue developing story, I'd take kotor-style cinematics without voiced lines. It'd be disheartening, but I think it would be vastly preferable to me than AI.

Using AI to replace voice actors would be so far down on my list that it might as well not even be there. At least right now when there aren't universal laws/regulations that give voice actors (and actors and singers and narrators) protection for how their voices are used and compensation when they are used when AI is involved.

At this year's Comic-con, apparently some voice actors raised a few concerns about AI in their field and I think these are very reasonable concerns that should be addressed before the option of using AI to voice characters becomes widespread. If these, and other concerns, are adequately addressed to the point where voice actors feel like they will be protected and compensated for their work, then I'm all for going ahead with AI, but until then, its not something I want to see in SWTOR or any other media.

[Shayddow]

It depends on the capability of the AI as well as the history of the character involved. For example, I always expect Bugs Bunny to sound like Mel Blanc voiced him. But for a NEW character, if an AI can do the job - particularly for a droid - then go for it.

[OlBuzzard]

5 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

I hadn't noticed his voice was different but a friend of mine who has a master's degree in music studies did, at the very least James Earl Jones gave his permission and hopefully he was payed fairly for it. 

 

I don't believe AI voice acting is in a stage where it can properly emulate someone like Euan Morton or any of the other PC VAs. I'd also be against its usage even if it could, due to the ethical concerns around the question of fairly paying the VA for it. I would be ok with the KOTOR style dialogue being used instead of AI voice-acting, it would make the game a lot less cinematic but at the very least we could continue the story, and provided the writers are able to take advantage of that new format we could even have more choices even if its just different flavor of dialogue. Sometimes they've managed to do that with the KOTOR style dialogue in this game, other times not so much. The possibility of hiring new VAs is also an interesting one to explore, I'd say that for the PC that would be very controversial to say the least, most of us have grown rather attached to our character's voices so I doubt we'd accept new ones. However for newer characters, or in the cases of companions such as Tanno Vik whose original VAs have sadly passed away, I would be ok with said characters getting new voice-actors if the writers decide to use them in future content. Though I also understand there might be some moral quandaries to resolve there as well, is it fair to do so if the original VA passed away? Or is it perhaps better to let that character rest and have the new VA voice a completely new character?

Weren't Neurolink chips exploding in monkey's brains or something? I'm not sure I'd trust that inside my head. And I'm all for technological augmentation of humanity, with considerations for human safety and our wellbeing of course.

I still think we're DECADES away from cybernetic implants in an extreme way!  There are some early steps that have been made ... BUT those are very early steps.  And a long way from being something this old man wants stuck in his head ... arms ... legs ... ANYHOW ... you get the idea!

AND ... I'd dare say that AI VA is still aways from being a thing (as previously mentioned .. even a mispalced inflection can change the meaning of a word.  Usage on vendors and certain NPC's ... perhaps.  BUT on a story driven script that contains a lot of dialogue.  Perhaps one day ...

But not today!

Edited July 23, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[OlBuzzard]

15 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, well that may be their aim, but if they come and try and do that to me, they're aim better be a lot better than mine.

Amen to that.  And I'm a LOT better at using a weapon than I am at fishing!  (It runs in the family)

😉

 

[TonyTricicolo]

I think many of us are still in fantasy land when it comes to technology's place in society and I don't mean that as an insult. It's not going to take decades for this crazy evolution to happen because it's already full swing. The three some odd years we spent in isolation due to Coronavirus showed the world that companies don't need office space and can have their employees telecommute to work. That alone changed EVERYTHING! I am prohuman and I don't want to sound like a propagandist for a dystopian future but the fact is that technology doubles every other year. I'll say that again-TECHNOLOGY DOUBLES after every other year and has been doing so since the 70's. Even if you tried, you can't stop that rate of progress. There are greater forces at play and the momentum is too strong. Fire<Wheel<Industrial revolution<Internet<AI. We are at the cusp of the next great human evolution. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[AbsolutGrndZero]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:23 AM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, well that may be their aim, but if they come and try and do that to me, they're aim better be a lot better than mine.

Yea, kinda of freaky, but on the other hand, it sounds like it's meant for the disabled to help them to lead a better life, so as long as it remains voluntary, it's no different than an advanced wheelchair.   Imagine if Stephen Hawking could have actually spoken to us in a real human sounding AI voice rather than having to constantly one-handed type out and have text-to-speech software speak for him?

On the other hand, if Elon Musk is behind it, it's kind of sus.  

Also, when it comes to the advance of technology, I am always amazed by this quote from Nikola Tesla.  It's a REAL quote, was printed in Collider Magazine in 1926.

When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole. We shall be able to communicate with one another instantly, irrespective of distance. Not only this, but through television and telephony we shall see and hear one another as perfectly as though we were face to face, despite intervening distances of thousands of miles; and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket.

Nikola Tesla

January 30th, 1926

Edited July 26, 2023 by AbsolutGrndZero

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, AbsolutGrndZero said:

Yea, kinda of freaky, but on the other hand, it sounds like it's meant for the disabled to help them to lead a better life, so as long as it remains voluntary, it's no different than an advanced wheelchair.   Imagine if Stephen Hawking could have actually spoken to us in a real human sounding AI voice rather than having to constantly one-handed type out and have text-to-speech software speak for him?

On the other hand, if Elon Musk is behind it, it's kind of sus.  

Also, when it comes to the advance of technology, I am always amazed by this quote from Nikola Tesla.  It's a REAL quote, was printed in Collider Magazine in 1926.

When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole. We shall be able to communicate with one another instantly, irrespective of distance. Not only this, but through television and telephony we shall see and hear one another as perfectly as though we were face to face, despite intervening distances of thousands of miles; and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket.

Nikola Tesla

January 30th, 1926

The advancement of technology has been around since before the dawn of the Bronze Age.  (it should be noted that I was NOT actually there ... contrary to the opinion of some).   😉

Technology will continue to grow.  That is the way of things.  Most of what we have discussed are things that have enhanced or deeply improved our quality of life.  That is a VERY good thing.  Technology has not developed to the point of REPLACING life.  Even in extreme cases where cybernetics have been utilized to replace or repair critical organs / parts of our bodies .. we are still at our core of existence ... human.

As we continue to explore this subject I still prefer to see AI VA as a separate matter / thought apart from the discoveries or technological advancements that are still on the horizon made / designed to make our lives better.  AI / VA ...  IMO ...  has it's place.  Its current level of development is not quite to the skill level to be able to replace actors ... (especially the good ones).  

On the other hand ... (remembering the situation on the Mandalorian with the substitute actor for Mark Hamill) .. there may still be the necessity for a limited application of state-of-the art methods such as "Deepfake" (IIRC) as opposed to CGI.  That area of development is still new and still needing improvements.  

One day .. perhaps.  But not today!

 

[AbsolutGrndZero]

11 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

The advancement of technology has been around since before the dawn of the Bronze Age.  (it should be noted that I was NOT actually there ... contrary to the opinion of some).   😉

Technology will continue to grow.  That is the way of things.  Most of what we have discussed are things that have enhanced or deeply improved our quality of life.  That is a VERY good thing.  Technology has not developed to the point of REPLACING life.  Even in extreme cases where cybernetics have been utilized to replace or repair critical organs / parts of our bodies .. we are still at our core of existence ... human.

As we continue to explore this subject I still prefer to see AI VA as a separate matter / thought apart from the discoveries or technological advancements that are still on the horizon made / designed to make our lives better.  AI / VA ...  IMO ...  has it's place.  Its current level of development is not quite to the skill level to be able to replace actors ... (especially the good ones).  

On the other hand ... (remembering the situation on the Mandalorian with the substitute actor for Mark Hamill) .. there may still be the necessity for a limited application of state-of-the art methods such as "Deepfake" (IIRC) as opposed to CGI.  That area of development is still new and still needing improvements.  

One day .. perhaps.  But not today!

 

That is true, but the computer age has advanced much faster than ever before, plus the point of me posting that quote was partially about what an amazing inventor that Nikola Tesla was.... in 1926, while he didn't have the name for it, he described the freaking internet and even smartphones.  The fact that Thomas Edison tried to thwart Tesla at every turn and pretty much did for decades after they both were dead I believe is the only reason it took us until the early 2000's to get smartphones.  In a world where Tesla was not all but forgotten thanks to Edison and Marconi, we would have had them much sooner.  As the rock band named after him sang,

I spent twelve years of hard time,
More like the best years of my life.
Never heard or read a single word
About "the man" and his "wicked mind."
They'll sell you on Marconi.
Familiar, but a phony.
Story goes they sold their souls
And swore that you'd never know.

 

  because when I (and from your post, I imagine you too) were growing up, schools didn't teach us about Tesla.  He invented the radio, he invented freakin' wireless, he even is responsible for the electricity in your home.  He is the one that designed the power plant at Niagara Falls and AC current.

Edison's Medicine by Tesla

Edited July 27, 2023 by AbsolutGrndZero

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

16 hours ago, AbsolutGrndZero said:

Yea, kinda of freaky, but on the other hand, it sounds like it's meant for the disabled to help them to lead a better life, so as long as it remains voluntary, it's no different than an advanced wheelchair.   Imagine if Stephen Hawking could have actually spoken to us in a real human sounding AI voice rather than having to constantly one-handed type out and have text-to-speech software speak for him?

My reply was to the comment which had been non-specific. I took it to mean, like, everyone. heh

Certainly in the examples you gave, yeah, that would be of great benefit to such people, and could apply to other people with special needs as well.  There could be very beneficial aspects to it. As long as it's voluntary and isn't hurting anyone else, certainly they're be no need for any concerns.

I think a great deal of technological innovation really is about making things better, easier, and more efficient.

Let's face it, the computer has come to permeate into so many aspects of life. It's hard to imagine what people did before computers. It's become part of our daily lives as is a source of help, entertainment, even helps us at work.

I suspect some day it won't at all be uncommon for some people, maybe even a lot of people, to have some micro chips in their brains that can do all sorts of things. Maybe even to help with the health of people. A lot of possibilities to be sure.