AI generated voices for companions ...

[FlameYOL]

5 hours ago, Addictress said:

A photographer doesn't produce the content of the images and merely captures them. Similarly, AI art generation in which you keep generating digital content until you find one you'd like to take a picture of us a bit similar. Hence, hundreds of photographers will now shoot me dead. I'm just suggesting one possible interpretation. Imagine a virtual world or landscape. You keep posing the camera and looking at it from various angles and you pour the "photographer's" eye and interpretation into the angle and mood of the capture itself, even if you did not design or handcraft the world captured in your frame. This is one interpretation of AI art.

 

That being said, if I were an actor I would be massively, vehemently against AI voice acting/representation. And I agree that AI voice at the present time couldn't possibly totally replicate the emotion and soul of true acting. I'd be horrified if someone used my voice sample to create AI voice recordings, even if I had read and approved a script beforehand.

A photographer actually has to put in the work into figuring out the best angles to take a picture, etc. Photography is not an easy job, at least not if you want to do it well. If it was, it wouldn't be a job to begin with. An AI image generated by a prompt has no effort, an AI is as of yet incapable of having that effort to begin with. And if it ever craves having said effort then we got bigger questions to answer than "do they produce art?". 

[NorthernNephilim]

12 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

Right because self-driving cars can never make mistakes, that's why Tesla never hits random civilians. 

 

Definitely, I doubt a country like mine will be able to have something like anytime soon. I guess I might be alive to see it happen but I doubt it.

Or a country like mine, where progress is slow due to corrupt politicians, lack of quality education, unemployment and so on. I'm 38 y/o now and might be alive to see self-driving cars, AI controlled highways, electric motorcycles and very advanced medical technology, but, like you , I doubt it. 

[OlBuzzard]

AI and CGI Technologies have been in the movie industry for a while now.  Look how much it has been utilized just in the Star Wars genre alone!  (Especially the entire Mandalorian series).  It can have clearcut benefits when used correctly as well as provide a much better / safer work environment to generate the desired affects to tell the story better as well as help to provide a much more immersive experience in the context of said story / surroundings.

I can't help but to wonder:  just how far reaching are some of these technologies?  It has been stated (from several different stand points of view) that the industry is changing.  Much of that change is good.  It opens up avenues of possibilities for the MMO industry that were not previously possible.  Heck ...  30 years ago we wouldn't be playing SWTOR online and sharing ideas as a community.  Now with those new changes in the same technology that gave birth to the industry we are facing some challenges along the way.  Pretty much the way life is.  

As for how this impacts THIS game.  I would rather suspect that depends on:
** The expense of the software.
** Someone who knows HOW to use it correctly (and do a better than average job) being on staff at Broadsword
** The current contracts being negotiated by the writers / actors today

The entertainment industry / production of games (in our case) is expensive, and a lot more challenging than some might think.

[StrikePrice]

13 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

IDK man hitting people and incurring them actual harm sounds pretty relevant to me. I thought your dystopia couldn't get worse but now you thinks its perfectly acceptable to have a world where self-driving cars can hit people, so long as they're better than the average driver! Nothing wrong there at all.

Why? Saves lives. 

[FlameYOL]

8 hours ago, NorthernNephilim said:

Or a country like mine, where progress is slow due to corrupt politicians, lack of quality education, unemployment and so on. I'm 38 y/o now and might be alive to see self-driving cars, AI controlled highways, electric motorcycles and very advanced medical technology, but, like you , I doubt it. 

Sounds a lot like issues Brazil faces, though I'll stop myself from discussing further as I believe the forums have rules against IRL political discussion. That said I wish you luck in that situation.
 

8 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Why? Saves lives. 

Ok who takes responsibility in case the self-driving vehicle hits someone? Who's gonna pay for those hospital bills and in case they kill the person what kind of compensation will be given, and by whom? I'm not saying it wouldn't be convenient to have self-driving cars, but there's a lot of thought we have to put into it before implementing such a thing. Especially in regards to cities with really bad urban planning, self-driving cars would have to be extremely smart to avoid going through dangerous neighborhoods or being able to manage poorly constructed roads for instance. 

[StrikePrice]

3 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

Sounds a lot like issues Brazil faces, though I'll stop myself from discussing further as I believe the forums have rules against IRL political discussion. That said I wish you luck in that situation.
 

Ok who takes responsibility in case the self-driving vehicle hits someone? Who's gonna pay for those hospital bills and in case they kill the person what kind of compensation will be given, and by whom? I'm not saying it wouldn't be convenient to have self-driving cars, but there's a lot of thought we have to put into it before implementing such a thing. Especially in regards to cities with really bad urban planning, self-driving cars would have to be extremely smart to avoid going through dangerous neighborhoods or being able to manage poorly constructed roads for instance. 

Car insurance dude. Same as now. It's not in the least bit complicated. 🙄

[FlameYOL]

1 minute ago, StrikePrice said:

Car insurance dude. Same as now. It's not in the least bit complicated. 🙄

Ok, who pays for the insurance then? If its public do I still have to pay insurance for it? And what if the insurance won't pay for the bills? As sometimes insurances companies will do. 

[JakRoanin]

So OP is saying the cars aren't privately owned? Oh boy, his future is scary.

[hillerbees]

AI should be avoided at all costs where possible...its just taking people's jobs away and who wants that?  If it aided bug fixes or something there might be merit in it but replacing or suplementing actors work, no.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, hillerbees said:

AI should be avoided at all costs where possible...its just taking people's jobs away and who wants that?  If it aided bug fixes or something there might be merit in it but replacing or suplementing actors work, no.

Bug fixes that take the work away from developers???

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

16 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

Even if it was his point, the criticism I made to self-driving vehicles is certainly not irrelevant. Its something that should be a concern if such a thing is implemented in a large scale. Being better than the average driver and still hitting people is still well... hitting people. Who would take responsibility in that case? There are a lot of questions to be asked there.

I agree, hitting people is hitting people, no matter who's doing the hitting.

But less people getting hit, is definitely a good thing, no matter the source of why less people are getting hit.  ☺️

There are certainly a lot of questions to be asked about such a thing and it would requite a lot of consideration and some really, really good testing before considering such a thing being implemented.

[eabevella]

On 7/16/2023 at 3:29 AM, OlBuzzard said:

Well  ... if the AI were programmed properly, it could sense the correct settings.  But you did touch on one word that AI can't reproduce today (IIRC) ... TASTE !

I love good Mexican / Oriental and certain Southern US foods done a certain way!  (Just my personal preferences) 

Telling a droid to not screw up a good steak .. or perhaps not to over-do the jalapeños in my burritos (or red chili peppers) !!!  HELLO ???  yeah .. good luck with that!

Yeah ..  AI definitely has its limitations.  

But still ... IMO there is already a good possibility for the applications of AI in parts of a game!  Maybe not in it's entirety (not yet at least) ... BUT DEFINATELY a coming thing!  Just stop and think about the total lack of companion interactions we've seen in the last (how many) YEARS!  All due to expense.  Soooo ... (for those who are into that sort of thing) ... this might be a welcomed change (???) maybe?

 

I mean, sure I can eat a night market steak using a bad cut and cooked by street cooks instead of trained chefs but it costs me less than $10 so I'm not complaining.

But if a Michelin star restaurant starts to use bad cut and hire amateur cooks and claim it "levitating street food to restaurant standard", I'll call it bullsh*t.

Current AI at best generate data that still requires a lot of training and input-control by human. It's far from what a lot of people here seem to think. How good an AI performs still depends a lot on how people train it, and how complicate/refined the developer want it to be. An AI can simulate basic emotion like "happy" "angry" "questioning" (hence I'm not opposed to using AI on fixed NPC lines like the GS companions when the alien language SFXs are already dead and souless) but it can't "create" complicate performances by a professional - not when a lot of the VAs in this game are highly skilled professional in the voice acting industry and/or actual musical or stage performers. 

But again, if you can't tell nor care the different between a night market stand steak and a Michelin star steak, you'll probably think it's ok for a Michelin 3 star restaurant to serve you the cheap stuffs.

PS: I just found out Baldur's Gate 3 due to the bear event and bought the early access in a heart beat. Having been playing non-stop in last week. It's everything I want the STWOR story contents will be: well written stories, lot of interactions with NPCs and environments. I already dumped 50hr in the past week and completely forgot about SWTOR except on my pre-set prog raid nights (just got my first HM IP kill, so yay!). The only draw back is that the Player Character doesn't speak like how SWTOR is fully voice acted even though non-speaking Player Character is a norm in this type of RPG games from what I've heard. SWTOR IS special and one of its kind because of its full voice acting and story contents. The quantity and quality of the story contents are already low, if they get rid of the only other good thing, this game will be "dead" in spirit no matter who take over. Not that its very "alive" in this sense, but still, half dead is better than dead-dead.

[NorthernNephilim]

52 minutes ago, eabevella said:

 

Current AI at best generate data that still requires a lot of training and input-control by human. It's far from what a lot of people here seem to think. How good an AI performs still depends a lot on how people train it, and how complicate/refined the developer want it to be. An AI can simulate basic emotion like "happy" "angry" "questioning" (hence I'm not opposed to using AI on fixed NPC lines like the GS companions when the alien language SFXs are already dead and souless) but it can't "create" complicate performances by a professional - not when a lot of the VAs in this game are highly skilled professional in the voice acting industry and/or actual musical or stage performers. 

 

I fully agree with you on this one. Yes, an AI might be able to simulate some human emotions, but not the nuances and accents in human voice. Plus, voicing a character requires a deeply understanding of that character, it's complexity. 

Take for example.. Battlelord Kreshan, at some point during the flashpoint he screams : " very well !!! then we die together!! " , one can actually feel the anger in his voice. 

Personally, I'm not sure I want that intensity replaced with a robotic voice. 

By the way, Battlelord Kreshan's VA deserves an Oscar 😂

[FlameYOL]

9 hours ago, NorthernNephilim said:

I fully agree with you on this one. Yes, an AI might be able to simulate some human emotions, but not the nuances and accents in human voice. Plus, voicing a character requires a deeply understanding of that character, it's complexity. 

Take for example.. Battlelord Kreshan, at some point during the flashpoint he screams : " very well !!! then we die together!! " , one can actually feel the anger in his voice. 

Personally, I'm not sure I want that intensity replaced with a robotic voice. 

By the way, Battlelord Kreshan's VA deserves an Oscar 😂

He goes so hard for a boss that's from a really low level dungeon, he has no right to go that hard. 

[eabevella]

2 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

He goes so hard for a boss that's from a really low level dungeon, he has no right to go that hard. 

11 hours ago, NorthernNephilim said:

I fully agree with you on this one. Yes, an AI might be able to simulate some human emotions, but not the nuances and accents in human voice. Plus, voicing a character requires a deeply understanding of that character, it's complexity. 

Take for example.. Battlelord Kreshan, at some point during the flashpoint he screams : " very well !!! then we die together!! " , one can actually feel the anger in his voice. 

Personally, I'm not sure I want that intensity replaced with a robotic voice. 

By the way, Battlelord Kreshan's VA deserves an Oscar 😂

YOUR WEAKNESS IS IN YOUR BLOOD!

My personal fav boss voice acting is the Dread Master Raptus' VA.

You can't simulate the glee and madness in his or any other Dread Master's lines with AI.

[OlBuzzard]

12 hours ago, eabevella said:

I mean, sure I can eat a night market steak using a bad cut and cooked by street cooks instead of trained chefs but it costs me less than $10 so I'm not complaining.

But if a Michelin star restaurant starts to use bad cut and hire amateur cooks and claim it "levitating street food to restaurant standard", I'll call it bullsh*t.

Current AI at best generate data that still requires a lot of training and input-control by human. It's far from what a lot of people here seem to think. How good an AI performs still depends a lot on how people train it, and how complicate/refined the developer want it to be. An AI can simulate basic emotion like "happy" "angry" "questioning" (hence I'm not opposed to using AI on fixed NPC lines like the GS companions when the alien language SFXs are already dead and souless) but it can't "create" complicate performances by a professional - not when a lot of the VAs in this game are highly skilled professional in the voice acting industry and/or actual musical or stage performers. 

But again, if you can't tell nor care the different between a night market stand steak and a Michelin star steak, you'll probably think it's ok for a Michelin 3 star restaurant to serve you the cheap stuffs.

PS: I just found out Baldur's Gate 3 due to the bear event and bought the early access in a heart beat. Having been playing non-stop in last week. It's everything I want the STWOR story contents will be: well written stories, lot of interactions with NPCs and environments. I already dumped 50hr in the past week and completely forgot about SWTOR except on my pre-set prog raid nights (just got my first HM IP kill, so yay!). The only draw back is that the Player Character doesn't speak like how SWTOR is fully voice acted even though non-speaking Player Character is a norm in this type of RPG games from what I've heard. SWTOR IS special and one of its kind because of its full voice acting and story contents. The quantity and quality of the story contents are already low, if they get rid of the only other good thing, this game will be "dead" in spirit no matter who take over. Not that its very "alive" in this sense, but still, half dead is better than dead-dead.

Problem is that TODAY (not 10 years from now) ...TODAY ...  I doubt seriously that there are any forms of AI available that could tell the difference in most of the cuts of meat, let alone how to properly cook them.  AI in the food preparation industry (restaurant application in particular) is a looooong way from reality on a large-scale use.

IMO this same sort of understanding of AI is precisely what we need to keep in mind for SWTOR ..  TODAY!  (Not 10 years from now).  What is available for incorporation into SWTOR ... TODAY?  I'm guessing that in reality probably not as much as we might think.  BTW ... it should be noted that IMO the main reason some players would LOVE to see AI VA being introduced into the game is due to the way that so many of the player favorites have all but been placed on a shelf.  This is obviously due to the excessive cost when applied to a much broader scale ("X" number of companions TIMES "Y" number of reactions TIMES "Z" number of language / VA )  That can add up in a hurry.  I'm just not so sure that the computer generated (AI) VA of today is quite ready for that application.  I rather suspect that one day .. it MIGHT!  But not today!

I still think that OP has a valid point.  The application of AI / VA can be used in a number of areas that would help keep cost down (in limited areas) ... but might still provide a means of cost reduction and perhaps help with funding for VA by those who are trained and well suited for the task.

That's not to say it isn't fun discussing the subject of utilization of AI VA WHEN THE SITUATION call for it.  But ... we must always temper our expectations with the reality of a product that is acceptable to even then most critical of consumers.  Less than that produces a sub-par product that will more than likely find itself being opened up to a great deal of criticism. (Hmmmm  that sounds familiar).  

[OlBuzzard]

1 minute ago, eabevella said:

YOUR WEAKNESS IS IN YOUR BLOOD!

My personal fav boss voice acting is the Dread Master Raptus' VA.

You can't simulate the glee and madness in his or any other Dread Master's lines with AI.

It takes a GOOD artist to make the facial expressions for in game use ... but the VA behind it ... THAT sells the scene!

[Shayddow]

"You seem to want to die. I can assist you!"  - gotta love Raptus...

 

Let madness release you!

[eabevella]

10 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Problem is that TODAY (not 10 years from now) ...TODAY ...  I doubt seriously that there are any forms of AI available that could tell the difference in most of the cuts of meat, let alone how to properly cook them.  AI in the food preparation industry (restaurant application in particular) is a looooong way from reality on a large-scale use.

IMO this same sort of understanding of AI is precisely what we need to keep in mind for SWTOR ..  TODAY!  (Not 10 years from now).  What is available for incorporation into SWTOR ... TODAY?  I'm guessing that in reality probably not as much as we might think.  BTW ... it should be noted that IMO the main reason some players would LOVE to see AI VA being introduced into the game is due to the way that so many of the player favorites have all but been placed on a shelf.  This is obviously due to the excessive cost when applied to a much broader scale ("X" number of companions TIMES "Y" number of reactions TIMES "Z" number of language / VA )  That can add up in a hurry.  I'm just not so sure that the computer generated (AI) VA of today is quite ready for that application.  I rather suspect that one day .. it MIGHT!  But not today!

I still think that OP has a valid point.  The application of AI / VA can be used in a number of areas that would help keep cost down (in limited areas) ... but might still provide a means of cost reduction and perhaps help with funding for VA by those who are trained and well suited for the task.

That's not to say it isn't fun discussing the subject of utilization of AI VA WHEN THE SITUATION call for it.  But ... we must always temper our expectations with the reality of a product that is acceptable to even then most critical of consumers.  Less than that produces a sub-par product that will more than likely find itself being opened up to a great deal of criticism. (Hmmmm  that sounds familiar).  

A lot of people think AI=cheap=budget save=more contents.

However, they forgot AAA game corporation like EA will only go for AI=cheap=budget save=more $$$ for them. They won't put the "saved" budget (some budget should never be cut) into creating more contents.

Also, good AI voice is not "cheap" nor void of human touch. Just look at Vocaloid. What makes it ticks is the human artists behind it. Miku can't sing nor write song on her own.

PS: I do think the GS3 companion droid could be a fitting NPC to use AI VA... she was a gemini droid who's been tempered with by shady people. Kind of fitting that they tried to modify her voice and screwed up.

On the other hand, SCORPIO's VA nailed the uncanny valley of sounding cold and inorganic and yet way too alive to be an AI.

[FlameYOL]

17 hours ago, eabevella said:

YOUR WEAKNESS IS IN YOUR BLOOD!

My personal fav boss voice acting is the Dread Master Raptus' VA.

You can't simulate the glee and madness in his or any other Dread Master's lines with AI.

Yeah Raptus is probably my favorite VA as far as operation bosses are concerned. I really enjoy Soa as well. Lord Karnoth was great in R4 and so was Revan in Temple of Sacrifice... there are so many performances to choose from.

[OlBuzzard]

12 hours ago, eabevella said:

A lot of people think AI=cheap=budget save=more contents.

However, they forgot AAA game corporation like EA will only go for AI=cheap=budget save=more $$$ for them. They won't put the "saved" budget (some budget should never be cut) into creating more contents.

Also, good AI voice is not "cheap" nor void of human touch. Just look at Vocaloid. What makes it ticks is the human artists behind it. Miku can't sing nor write song on her own.

PS: I do think the GS3 companion droid could be a fitting NPC to use AI VA... she was a gemini droid who's been tempered with by shady people. Kind of fitting that they tried to modify her voice and screwed up.

On the other hand, SCORPIO's VA nailed the uncanny valley of sounding cold and inorganic and yet way too alive to be an AI.

Exactly ...  And more to the point .. Just exactly what makes some folks think that the software / and someone who knows how to make REALLY GOOD USE of said software is going to make it cheaper?  About the only real cost savings MIGHT be in the fact that a company might not need to hire several personalities in order to finish the script in multiple languages.  BTW... this is not meant to be offensive to those who do VA in languages outside of the native language of the original point of origin from which any game might be released in the future.  Which brings up yet another point:  multi-cultural language barriers.  I have had some dealings in this area (though admittedly very limited) ...but I can tell you that whoever is doing the AI stuff had better be a whiz-kid in a wide variety of cultures.  Otherwise:  it can be VERY embarrassing!

Something tells me that someone who is REALLY THAT good at AI / VA / design and programming will make good money!  If they didn't charge a good amount of money for services rendered in this relatively new area of technology, I'd probably be a bit skeptical.  (You tend to get what you pay for.)

[AbsolutGrndZero]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:04 PM, StrikePrice said:

I'm not suggesting they steal anyone's voice. I'm suggesting they make new, novel voices for companions like PH4-LNX or next season's companion. It would also be great if they could secure permission from all the original voice actors to use their voices to create AI content. That way, making new content would be much easier. Of course, that would require making deals with the original VAs, but it might be possible. 

But if they can do that, why not just do that from the start?  Talking about the future here.  Say I am making a new Batman game.  Why should I hire Tara Strong to voice Harley Quinn when I can instead just create a voice that sounds great and like Harley Quinn should sound for a fraction of the cost using AI software?    Same goes for Laura Bailey, Jennifer Hale, name any other famous voice actor you want, why should I spend that money to hire them when I don't need to?  At best the big names might still have some work where their name becomes a commodity.  I could maybe justify hiring Tara Strong if I use her inclusion to sell the game, but... then the question is do I expect her name to sell enough copies to justify hiring her in the first place? Nah, I'll just use an AI voice. Nobody will care.  Except Tara and everyone else in the voice acting community who will be out of jobs.

[Notinthehair]

I see these posts about AI in SWTOR and the only thing  I can think about is the fact that the devs can't even fix bugs that have been in the game for a decade.  I mean, why is my Sith Warrior's crotch frozen in time during some conversations regardless if he is moving around?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

23 hours ago, eabevella said:

On the other hand, SCORPIO's VA nailed the uncanny valley of sounding cold and inorganic and yet way too alive to be an AI.

She really did.

Scorpio is one of my favorite companions. I LOVE her voice. It's so silky smooth and a bit seductive sounding. It reminds me a lot of the Borg Queen from Star Trek. Not only that, but she looks fantastic.

Scorpio was done excellently in my opinion. Her story line in the Eternal whateverthehell expansions was one of the few parts of it I really enjoyed and I think they did an outstanding job with Scorpio through out it all.

I was a little disappointed that they made her turn on the character, because I loved her so much, but it did make for excellent drama and a good story line with her.

I never played the Agent story line which I believe is where she originally comes from so I don't know if she was the same in it as she is in The Eternal stuff.

Love , love, love Scoprio.

[eabevella]

55 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

She really did.

Scorpio is one of my favorite companions. I LOVE her voice. It's so silky smooth and a bit seductive sounding. It reminds me a lot of the Borg Queen from Star Trek. Not only that, but she looks fantastic.

Scorpio was done excellently in my opinion. Her story line in the Eternal whateverthehell expansions was one of the few parts of it I really enjoyed and I think they did an outstanding job with Scorpio through out it all.

I was a little disappointed that they made her turn on the character, because I loved her so much, but it did make for excellent drama and a good story line with her.

I never played the Agent story line which I believe is where she originally comes from so I don't know if she was the same in it as she is in The Eternal stuff.

Love , love, love Scoprio.

She has a very interesting origin in the agent's story if you haven't seen the spoiler (hey the game is 10+ years old but still).

I think she and agent have a similar personal theme and I love that you can base it to change your toon's view about her even though she's always openly hostile about our toon.

I'm glad my agent is my "canon" imp side play through because it brings so much context in the KOTXX story. Pretty much the major reason why I can tolerate it lol