AI generated voices for companions ...

[OlBuzzard]

19 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Grrr. Tom Cruise was only an example. And for the final time I am not saying No AI! I'm saying I see all possibilities. Did you forget I'm all for owning a KITT?

LOL!  You're all about KITT  (nothing wrong with that ,,, and the tech) .... And I can't stand the current amount of technology being used in the sport of fishing (since it actually removes the you know ... actual SPORT from said event!)

There's a message in there somewhere!

BTW... thanks for being a good sparing partner over this!  Well done!

[JakRoanin]

I have cerebral palsy and can't drive. A KITT would give me loads of freedom and independence.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I have cerebral palsy and can't drive. A KITT would give me loads of freedom and independence.

It'll happen one day, not necessarily KITT persay, but something along those lines, and yeah, that will be great for people like you who face certain difficulties that unfortunately limit you to some degree and effect your independence. May even start at first coming from that reasoning and than spread out from there.

I was a Patrol Officer for 6 years here in NY, and driving around on the open road, it really can give you sense of freedom, so I hope one day you'll be able to experience that on your own terms.

[JenaSalton]

As much as I dislike the idea, I agree that AI both as far as voicing characters and other aspects of gameplay will become a prominent part of games in the near future. I don't, however, think it'll be coming to SWTOR too soon and think it's more likely that it'll be something added into new games rather than trying to fit into old games.

Some of the reasons I believe that include:

1) the SAG strike (which I believe includes various voice actors, including ones involved in fairly major roles in SWTOR) is in part due to concerns about AI and I can definitely see the SAG saying its members cannot/will not be involved in projects that also feature AI work in place of (voice) actors at least in the short term until the world has a better idea of how AI will be affecting the world over the next couple of decades.

2) A lot of the pushback against AI usage comes from people in creative industries who are rightfully concerned about how AI will affect their jobs and protect their works/likeness. When one group has raised concerns, there has been a lot of cross support from other groups. SAG joining WGA on strike; an author cancelling a competition relating to cover art for indie books because artists were concerned about the use of AI in some of pieces that were entered into the competition. I have no idea how games are made as far as coding goes, but I do know that between the story, the dialogue, the voice acting, and the visuals SWTOR requires a lot of creativity. I don't see the members of the dev team willingly embracing the use of AI to replace other people when its more than possible that they'll be the ones AI is trying to replace next.

Obviously, I don't know any of that for a fact, and maybe the SWTOR devs are actually all really hoping they can move on to using AI for all of their voice acting, but its seems unlikely. And of course, the folks at EA and Broadsword might have completely different opinions that are focused solely on money  and want to use AI as a means of saving costs, but I do think trying to do so will make the game worse.

All that being said, I do think AI is and can be incredibly helpful in many areas of life and I hope it continues to be developed to help people.

[Spikanor]

from one side i think this is a good idea and not only for companions only but also for the story line and other things is it better since most of the cost go's to the voice acting when the new game contant flow is really crap and worst of the worst there is.

sure its bad for the people that are doing it as a job but its also a risk job there are doing and this is the same thing we have happing with a lot off other things in the past that have become normal now a day's.

if we look back in the music world the time you need to buy any cd only to listing to a music is now not more so a lot of shops have also close there business since the CD's have become useless since we all use music on the internet now and use app's like spotify to listing music now.

and it has become now normal more to use app's or so to listing to music and not from any CD any more.

so is that with a lot of things that it become's normal at some point.

its the same with movie's that we watch then on streaming site's or app's more.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, Spikanor said:

if we look back in the music world the time you need to buy any cd only to listing to a music is now not more so a lot of shops have also close there business since the CD's have become useless since we all use music on the internet now and use app's like spotify to listing music now.

This is an excellent example. I can only imagine the revenue loss to companies who manufactured and sold music CDs with the coming of MP3s. People just downloaded all the music they ever wanted online for free and never spent another sent on CDs. And before that, the coming of CDs completely obliterated the marker for music tapes and before that, record albums.

When was the last time someone went to the store and bought a music tape. I don't even think there are stores that exist that sell them, beyond maybe some fringe store for collectors.

Technological advancements have been killing jobs for people since the industrial revolution in the name of progress. That won't ever stop.

Most people don't ride around on horses anymore to get places since the invent of motor vehicles. I'm sure that had some impact on stables and people who drove horse carriages for a living.

Edited July 16, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Spikanor]

15 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

This is an excellent example. I can only imagine the revenue loss to companies who manufactured and sold music CDs with the coming of MP3s. People just downloaded all the music they ever wanted online for free and never spent another sent on CDs. And before that, the coming of CDs completely obliterated the marker for music tapes and before that, record albums.

When was the last time someone went to the store and bought a music tape. I don't even think there are stores that exist that sell them, beyond maybe some fringe store for collectors.

Technological advancements have been killing jobs for people since the industrial revolution in the name of progress. That won't ever stop.

Most people don't ride around on horses anymore to get places since the invent of motor vehicles. I'm sure that had some impact on stables and people who drove horse carriages for a living.

also you forget to add LP's that was i think before music tape's.

what you tell is 100% right.

when there is something new like downloading game's or music has always 2 side effect's from 1 good thing and 1 bad thing always.

the bad effect is that some people are going to lose there job or some store's are going out of business by the new things.

and the good effect is that its creat new job's in a other field and store's in the mean time.

 

with AI voice acting is the same thing.

the people that do the voice acting now are losing there job thats the bad effect from it and some company's.

and the good effect from it is that it creat new jobs in the ICT field and new software for it and to maintain it that means you need then other people for it then what you have now and also creat new company's.

[FlameYOL]

On 7/15/2023 at 12:20 PM, StrikePrice said:

Many careers are walking dead. VAs and actors are high on the list. 

 

This is wrong. It will not be long until you cannot tell the difference and it will not be long after that that you will prefer AI generated content to human generated content. 

 

 

And that somehow is supposed to make things better? How is VA and actors being high on the list good? Christ people like you want soulless art, extremely despicable attitude to have. Art is about a message, about putting a part of you into a creative work that inspires another person, make them feel something. AI is not capable of that, AI merely assembles what already exists. Its not often I meet someone with an opinion that genuinely fills me with disgust. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by FlameYOL

[FlameYOL]

On 7/15/2023 at 3:19 PM, eabevella said:

Maybe to people with no "taste" as in how I can't tell the difference of a $100 audio set from a $10000 one.

Exactly, AI isn't anywhere near the state where it can produce good or creative content. If companies start using AI to produce "art" (AI is incapable of producing art, as of yet its not a conscious being but merely a program) its gonna be a bigger disaster than the Flash's box office numbers. There's also the problem of AI created content being based on already existing content, since AI is not capable of creating original things yet, so they'd just end up ripping themselves at some point and if we ever reach a point in the creative industry where that is the status quo then creativity will truly be dead and gone.  The fact some people in this thread would cheer for it is honestly extremely concerning, the future of our species really is bleak.

Edited July 16, 2023 by FlameYOL

[FlameYOL]

On 7/15/2023 at 1:57 PM, StrikePrice said:

It's much much worse than that. Take self-driving cars for example. 

What's the #1 employer of men in the US?
If cars drive themselves, companies will own them. You will Uber everywhere.
Mechanics will all work for companies.
You will pay per trip for insurance.
Only companies own cars, no need for parking.
You don't own a car, why do you need a garage? Driveway?
Gas stations? Not needed.

And on an on and on. From one innovation. The entire world is about to change. And to answer your question directly. Yes, content creation is already being democratized. Check out r/StableDiffusion as one example. 

Right because self-driving cars can never make mistakes, that's why Tesla never hits random civilians. 

 

On 7/15/2023 at 2:10 PM, NorthernNephilim said:

Sorry, but this won't happen in the next 100 years! Not all countries will have access to that kind of resources aka AI controlled highways and not all bikers will afford to buy such an advanced motorcycle.

What then, deny that person's right to go to work from an isolated village just because he/she doesn't have enough money to buy an " intelligent" vehicle? That will be discrimination, and so will be the neurolink you mentioned before, not all blind people will afford to pay for it. 

Definitely, I doubt a country like mine will be able to have something like anytime soon. I guess I might be alive to see it happen but I doubt it.

[StrikePrice]

5 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

Right because self-driving cars can never make mistakes, that's why Tesla never hits random civilians. 

Irrelevant. I does not have to be perfect. It just has to be better than the average driver. 

[FlameYOL]

6 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

Irrelevant. I does not have to be perfect. It just has to be better than the average driver. 

IDK man hitting people and incurring them actual harm sounds pretty relevant to me. I thought your dystopia couldn't get worse but now you thinks its perfectly acceptable to have a world where self-driving cars can hit people, so long as they're better than the average driver! Nothing wrong there at all.

[OlBuzzard]

IMO there is a difference between advances in technology and AI when it comes to acting / dance / interactions.  Which is why I posted this:

'Footloose' - Dancing In The Movies - YouTube

IMO we're a long way from replacing people with AI.  On the other hand we have seen where other actors have been used (who looked similar ... but were different) to replace the originals.  Voice-overs can be manipulated.  

** OP still has a point with AI being used in the basic areas of applications in an MMO.  
** I would hardly call the AI development of todays caliber groundbreaking enough to the point where they can create their own dialogue (only a response that has been programed is available).  
** How sophisticated is that software?  IMO this a rapid changing world.  AND IMO the writers / actors strikes today are (Or could be) seen as a NECESSARY step in the ongoing process of this everchanging industry.

Final note:  I loved the one liner from Maverick when he was told that his kind was headed for extinction:
"Maybe so sir ... but not today"!

This not about technology and how it impacts all of us today (although I can also see how some might be concerned) ... It is just as much about our humanity and how we currently interact with games.  Some like a LOT of interactions with companions and the story behind the entire SWTOR experience.  Some see little point in it.

In the end we simply need to keep focused on the MMO experience, appreciate what it takes to generate a COMPLETE game and not forget:
** The people behind the game
** Change is inevitable
** Different people will experience different aspects of the game.  

MMO's are changing!  Our world is changing.  WE ARE changing.  

More than ever I understand that:  "There are always possibilities".  

 

[OlBuzzard]

16 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

IDK man hitting people and incurring them actual harm sounds pretty relevant to me. I thought your dystopia couldn't get worse but now you thinks its perfectly acceptable to have a world where self-driving cars can hit people, so long as they're better than the average driver! Nothing wrong there at all.

Yeah .. tell that to the person who got splattered! (I agree BTW).

[FlameYOL]

14 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

IMO there is a difference between advances in technology and AI when it comes to acting / dance / interactions.  Which is why I posted this:

'Footloose' - Dancing In The Movies - YouTube

IMO we're a long way from replacing people with AI.  On the other hand we have seen where other actors have been used (who looked similar ... but were different) to replace the originals.  Voice-overs can be manipulated.  

** OP still has a point with AI being used in the basic areas of applications in an MMO.  
** I would hardly call the AI development of todays caliber groundbreaking enough to the point where they can create their own dialogue (only a response that has been programed is available).  
** How sophisticated is that software?  IMO this a rapid changing world.  AND IMO the writers / actors strikes today are (Or could be) seen as a NECESSARY step in the ongoing process of this everchanging industry.

Final note:  I loved the one liner from Maverick when he was told that his kind was headed for extinction:
"Maybe so sir ... but not today"!

This not about technology and how it impacts all of us today (although I can also see how some might be concerned) ... It is just as much about our humanity and how we currently interact with games.  Some like a LOT of interactions with companions and the story behind the entire SWTOR experience.  Some see little point in it.

In the end we simply need to keep focused on the MMO experience, appreciate what it takes to generate a COMPLETE game and not forget:
** The people behind the game
** Change is inevitable
** Different people will experience different aspects of the game.  

MMO's are changing!  Our world is changing.  WE ARE changing.  

More than ever I understand that:  "There are always possibilities".  

 

Exactly. For the record I'm not against the application of AI in everything, even when it comes to game development there are definitely a few areas where it can be useful. Mark Darrah had a great video about it, areas where it could be used and areas where it shouldn't (namely creative endeavours because then we'd run into the issue I mentioned). For better or for worse AI is here, but we mustn't throw ethics out the window just for the sake of further development. How we progress is just as important as us progressing and not stagnating. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by FlameYOL

[Cirran]

56 minutes ago, FlameYOL said:

And that somehow is supposed to make things better? How is VA and actors being high on the list good? Christ people like you want soulless art, extremely despicable attitude to have. Art is about a message, about putting a part of you into a creative work that inspires another person, make them feel something. AI is not capable of that, AI merely assembles what already exists. Its not often I meet someone with an opinion that genuinely fills me with disgust. 

Just a thought. "Soulless Art" has existed LONG before AI was a twinkle in John McCarthy's eye. In fact "Soulless Art" has been thrown around about many things. Electric Instruments, computer aided/generated music, and acrylic paints to name a few things that have been called "Soulless Art".

Beauty (and "art") is in the eye of the beholder.

Like many careers before VA's and Actors will either adapt and find their new niche in regards to pay and performance or become irrelevant like many other careers before them. 

 

Cirran

[FlameYOL]

2 hours ago, Cirran said:

Just a thought. "Soulless Art" has existed LONG before AI was a twinkle in John McCarthy's eye. In fact "Soulless Art" has been thrown around about many things. Electric Instruments, computer aided/generated music, and acrylic paints to name a few things that have been called "Soulless Art".

Beauty (and "art") is in the eye of the beholder.

Like many careers before VA's and Actors will either adapt and find their new niche in regards to pay and performance or become irrelevant like many other careers before them. 

 

Cirran

I do not care if the term was used before. I will not consider a random image generated by mere prompts to be art. Art is subjective yes, but that subjectivity is very much a human thing. What message does this transmit? What feelings does it evoke? What did the author meant to transmit and evoke with it, these are not things that AI "art" has. Having seen your other comment, I can see you're very much in the same vein as the OP. Technological progression without any regards for ethics or morals, which again I find it despicable so I wish you a good evening and I'll leave the conversation because I do not wish to engage with it. 

[OlBuzzard]

A somewhat related industry that faced dramatic changes were the radio hosts : DJ's / as well as the news (newspaper) and magazine industries with the advent of the internet!  How much of the work of the DJ is automated comparted to what it was in the 50's and 60's.  (The term DJ really no longer means today what it use to since almost none of the music is on a disk to begin with).

IMO .. it is unquestionable that the changes AND abuse of intellectual property of the past in other media forms, as well as the overall scope of the movie / acting / writing industry in coordination with various guilds / unions etc ... is what is at the heart of a lot of the upcoming changes that we seeing today.

With change we can either grow and mature or create distrust and chaos.  

[Addictress]

A photographer doesn't produce the content of the images and merely captures them. Similarly, AI art generation in which you keep generating digital content until you find one you'd like to take a picture of us a bit similar. Hence, hundreds of photographers will now shoot me dead. I'm just suggesting one possible interpretation. Imagine a virtual world or landscape. You keep posing the camera and looking at it from various angles and you pour the "photographer's" eye and interpretation into the angle and mood of the capture itself, even if you did not design or handcraft the world captured in your frame. This is one interpretation of AI art.

 

That being said, if I were an actor I would be massively, vehemently against AI voice acting/representation. And I agree that AI voice at the present time couldn't possibly totally replicate the emotion and soul of true acting. I'd be horrified if someone used my voice sample to create AI voice recordings, even if I had read and approved a script beforehand.

[Addictress]

The universe is a simulacra born of math and physics. Maybe it's just a huge simulation. We project this universe into a virtual world - a digital cosmos. Inside this digital cosmos we create a camera, and take photos inside. Is this photography? 

 

Anyways...

Edited July 17, 2023 by Addictress

[Addictress]

Addictress has been defeated by all photographers.

 

x_x don't rez me

[Shayddow]

Quote

Many careers are walking dead. VAs and actors are high on the list.

When I was growing up, they used to run ads in the Newspapers in the Want Ads for Key punch operators. 

I doubt that many in generation "Z" has ever used a punch card, or even gotten ahold of a printed newspaper. 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

12 hours ago, Spikanor said:

when there is something new like downloading game's or music has always 2 side effect's from 1 good thing and 1 bad thing always.

the bad effect is that some people are going to lose there job or some store's are going out of business by the new things.

and the good effect is that its creat new job's in a other field and store's in the mean time.

 

with AI voice acting is the same thing.

the people that do the voice acting now are losing there job thats the bad effect from it and some company's.

and the good effect from it is that it creat new jobs in the ICT field and new software for it and to maintain it that means you need then other people for it then what you have now and also creat new company's.

Excellent point and it's good you made note of it. 👍👍

As you pointed out, while it may be bad for workers in the voice acting profession, the expansion of AI voices in multimedia in the future, logically it follows that that would create more jobs in the AI industry as it expands and grows and webs out into the various aspects of multimedia.

Good for people working in one industry, bad for people working in another. Maybe there's some sort of balancing act there that makes the idea more palpable for some in considering it's effects.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

11 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

IDK man hitting people and incurring them actual harm sounds pretty relevant to me. I thought your dystopia couldn't get worse but now you thinks its perfectly acceptable to have a world where self-driving cars can hit people, so long as they're better than the average driver! Nothing wrong there at all.

I think his point was that if the 'automated drive technology' was better than your average driver than that logically would follow that there would be less instances of cars hitting people and other cars.

And if that was in fact the case, because the 'automated drive technology' was better than your average driver and if the accident rates were lower and there was less people getting hit by cars and car accidents, than than not doing it that way would be actually more harmful to people.

But, I get what your saying about the soulfulness of art.

[FlameYOL]

30 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I think his point was that if the 'automated drive technology' was better than your average driver than that logically would follow that there would be less instances of cars hitting people and other cars.

And if that was in fact the case, because the 'automated drive technology' was better than your average driver and if the accident rates were lower and there was less people getting hit by cars and car accidents, than than not doing it that way would be actually more harmful to people.

But, I get what your saying about the soulfulness of art.

Even if it was his point, the criticism I made to self-driving vehicles is certainly not irrelevant. Its something that should be a concern if such a thing is implemented in a large scale. Being better than the average driver and still hitting people is still well... hitting people. Who would take responsibility in that case? There are a lot of questions to be asked there.