AI generated voices for companions ...

[JakRoanin]

Ethically very tricky for me. The family definitely should have the compensation and vitally consent! 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, TziganeNZ said:

Or if people have since passed (as has indeed happened with SWTOR VAs).  Continuity will remain with AI.

Wow, I didn't know that any of the voice actors in the game passed away. I'd be curious to know which of the voice actors that was if you get a chance.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

8 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I'm not saying it's an out-and-out terrible idea. However, it is ethically and financially tricky. All the VA's in TOR in its 3 spoken languages have put years of their own hard work into this game and it represents their artistic expression. To suddenly say, "hey, we don't need any of you because we can just splice together anything on a computer program," rather invalidates the craft of acting at all. While I don't view it as serious an issue of worker safety or proper health insurance it is very ethically dubious. Tech is wonderful but AI needs more rules to protect both technological development and not just artificially generating performances.

Just out of curiosity, if the situation is that they simply can't afford to pay the voice actors for future content, but the only alternative to AI voicing is that all the future content than has to be text based, do you feel that they should than go with text based rather than employ AI voicing?

I guess it should also be pointed out that if they did do text based dialogue, those voice actors would still not be getting paid.

What are your thoughts on that?

[JakRoanin]

Tano Vik's VA passed away. His part on Assylum was voiced by a different VA and permanently written out after. This is why AI is sketchy for me... Theoretically, it's possible to use all the pre-recorded work to do whole chapters for his Character (Why anyone would want that...) but, how is doing that not unethical if his legal heirs or estate do not give consent or receive compensation. The game would be profiting from the VA without any heed to human decency!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

4 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Tano Vik's VA passed away. His part on Assylum was voiced by a different VA and permanently written out after. This is why AI is sketchy for me... Theoretically, it's possible to use all the pre-recorded work to do whole chapters for his Character (Why anyone would want that...) but, how is doing that not unethical if his legal heirs or estate do not give consent or receive compensation. The game would be profiting from the VA without any heed to human decency!

Yeah, in the case wherein one of the voice actors has passed away, that does add a little more humanity into the equation.

I don't know the timing of that voice actor's death, but I wonder if that's maybe why they decieded to give thge Tano Vik character a kill option in The Eternal whateverthehell story line.

I mean, I doubt it because they've given kill options to a lot of old companion characters.

That's unfortunate that the voice actor passed away.

Edited July 15, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TziganeNZ]

2 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Wow, I didn't know that any of the voice actors in the game passed away. I'd be curious to know which of the voice actors that was if you get a chance.

As JakRoanin said, Tanno Vik's VA (David Anthony Pizzuto) passed away in 2012.

Also - Xalek (Tony Armatrading - Joan Armatrading's brother, 2021); Overseer Tremel (Paul Darrow, 2019); Lt/Major Pierce (Adam Leadbetter, 2020)

Maybe a couple of others as well?

Edit:  Also, don't forget that VAs often did 'additional voices' as well as their main characters.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by TziganeNZ

[eabevella]

Ai replacing voice "acting"? Not in a long run for anyone who wants actual good performance.

Ai replacing filler trash GS companion lines ? It's already machine generated now so why not.

[TonyTricicolo]

I think we are lot closer to AI voice acting than most people think. For example, call center operators will be indistinguishable because AI is now starting to learn infliction so it can pseudo mimic mannerisms. Companies will see the cost efficiency in using scripts instead of having to pay real people for time spent recording lines etc.  

[FlameYOL]

1 hour ago, TonyTricicolo said:

I think we are lot closer to AI voice acting than most people think. For example, call center operators will be indistinguishable because AI is now starting to learn infliction so it can pseudo mimic mannerisms. Companies will see the cost efficiency in using scripts instead of having to pay real people for time spent recording lines etc.  

Hoooray for a dystopian future. I want off this planet.

[JakRoanin]

Plastic was fun in the 1920's now not-so-much, cars were a great idea for a while, now they are a pollution and countless people die in them daily. AI probably AMAZING in its place but like plastic and cars it will do huge damage if not used properly.

[Shayddow]

I think the call centers already use them. At least when I pick up the phone and start doing a Lily Tomblin "operator"routine when I answer ("This is Mrs. Beasley, is this the party to whom I am speaking?", I've never had anyone actually react, they keep on going thru their script. I've also tried :

1. just hanging up & blocking the number

2. playing nuclear alert warnings 

3. playing music as if they are on "hold"

4. just answering "hello" to whatever they say. Repeatedly. Just to waste their time.

I hate call centers.  At least it works when I am playing Sith-

Let the hate FLOW Thru you...

 

[OlBuzzard]

14 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Okay I guess it comes down to this, which is more emotionally fulfilling hearing Shakespeare by Patrick Stewart or an AI? I'd vote for Sir Patrick. However, if the AI was only used for the street rabble and Sir Patrick was still King Lear I'm good. 😊

An AI could not nor should they EVER be utilized to replace or impersonate characters / people of renown such as Mark Hamil's Luke Skywalker or Patrick Stewarts Capt. Picard. or even a clearly recognizable character such as James Bond 007 or in the case of STO:  the Klingon character Worf or (from DS-9) Binjamin Sisko.   Those could (and probably would) draw a quick reaction based on copyright infringements or perhaps (as we are discussing now) ... VA characters rights from those who characters / actors could have specific contract agreements with the companies that originally produced the works.

Frankly this is one industry that can get very complicated in a hurry when discussing this subject.  

Yet ... when we are looking at a market such as the MMO market most (though admittedly not ALL) characters are created for that game even though it is a part of a particular genre (such as SWTOR and STO).  Almos none of these characters (such as Kira Karsen) are mentioned in previous SW lore (that I'm aware of).  That character is realistically the intellectual property of the company that created the personality.  And I'm quite sure that Lucas Film could easily fit in there somewhere.  

Once again this can get complicated.

Bottom line:  I would imagine that this new technology could only be used in cases where there was no previously utilized character has been created or otherwise (as stated above) in order to ensure that no infringements of any legal claim would occur.  

And something tells me that I've still overlooked something important!  Why?  Because this industry can be tricky to navigate from time to time.  And something tells me that the legal fees have just went up in this industry in order to protect everyone involved in it!

But still .. I like the idea of what OP has presented!  

[OlBuzzard]

6 hours ago, eabevella said:

Ai replacing voice "acting"? Not in a long run for anyone who wants actual good performance.

Ai replacing filler trash GS companion lines ? It's already machine generated now so why not.

Good point!  (Running out of those reaction things again... maybe I'll access to some before the day is out)

AI VA doesn't have to be used exclusively throughout the entire game ... just for lot of those that aren't as pivotable in the story!  Or perhaps in cases where the language barrier is of such an alien nature that it would be so decerning?  (Vendors / Gormac / mechanical companions such a HK)  Maybe ... ???  Just brainstorming here!

[TonyTricicolo]

47 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

An AI could not nor should they EVER be utilized to replace or impersonate characters / people of renown such as Mark Hamil's Luke Skywalker

Hmm, that's interesting because I believe Disney/Lucasfilm has the right of Luke Skywalker's use, Mark Hamil doesn't. Although he may disagree with the direction they may take the character of Luke, he is a paid actor hired to do a job. It would be considerate if they accommodate him but I doubt are in any obligation to honor his requests. Case in point the sequel trilogies where Mark was adamant on how Luke was portrayed and Rian Johnson went ahead anyway. We also had the de-aged Luke in the Mandalorian where a stand in actor had Mark Hamil's young Luke superimposed on to him. They also redid Leia and Tarken without permission needed.  The characters are intellectual properties and if they wanted to they can add deceased actors by using deep fake and chat gpt technologies.  Crazy times man!

Edited July 15, 2023 by TonyTricicolo
Punctuation, usage, spelling, and grammar.

[StrikePrice]

15 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

No thanks, I don't want AI to rob VAs out of their work.

Many careers are walking dead. VAs and actors are high on the list. 

 

7 hours ago, eabevella said:

Ai replacing voice "acting"? Not in a long run for anyone who wants actual good performance.

Ai replacing filler trash GS companion lines ? It's already machine generated now so why not.

This is wrong. It will not be long until you cannot tell the difference and it will not be long after that that you will prefer AI generated content to human generated content. 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by StrikePrice

[OlBuzzard]

23 minutes ago, TonyTricicolo said:

Hmm, that's interesting because I believe Disney/Lucasfilm has the right of Luke Skywalker's use, Mark Hamil doesn't. Although he may disagree with the direction they may take the character of Luke, he is a paid actor hired to do a job. It would be considerate if they accommodate him but I doubt are in any obligation to honor his requests. Case in point the sequel trilogies where Mark was adamant on how Luke was portrayed and Rian Johnson went ahead anyway. We also had the de-aged Luke in the Mandalorian where a stand in actor had Mark Hamil's young Luke superimposed on to him. They also redid Leia and Tarken without permission needed.  The characters are intellectual properties and if they wanted to they can add deceased actors by using deep fake and chat gpt technologies.  Crazy times man!

You're exactly right on!  Which is why I've said all the way through this ... it's a complex industry!  AND .. one in which I'm certain that the legal departments will be the real benefactors before it's over with.

Crazy times ... again ... right on!

[JakRoanin]

15 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

Many careers are walking dead. VAs and actors are high on the list. 

 

This is wrong. It will not be long until you cannot tell the difference and it will not be long after that that you will prefer AI generated content to human generated content. 

 

 

But it's wrong! I hope you're not correct. It's just wrong.

[TonyTricicolo]

2 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But it's wrong! I hope you're not correct. It's just wrong.

Wrong? Perhaps but it's lingering on a very thin line. In the very near future every low level technical job will be replaced by AI. Call centers, receptionists, book keepers, secretaries, security access control, truck drivers, fast food cashiers etc will be all replaced by AI. AI don't sleep, eat, need to take breaks or need to get paid. Skilled labor will be in demand and every one else will live off universal basic income lol

[OlBuzzard]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

But it's wrong! I hope you're not correct. It's just wrong.

Like it not it has already started.  I had totally forgotten about what was done in the Mandalorian TV series with Mark Hamil / Luke Skywalker.  Mark was livid over how KK portrayed him in the last trilogy!  (AND IMO ... rightly so).  And yet Disney owns the rights to the character: Luke Skywalker.  They pretty much do what they want (and they have).  Also see the application of technology when it came to the character of Princess Leia in the last movie.

Back to what we are looking at:  OP has a good idea particularly when it comes to MMO's.  

That being said ... I would prefer to see the application being made as someone has ALSO suggested:  not 100% AI ... but in a lot of situations where those applications would easily be utilized to keep cost down (vendors / non-pivotal characters / etc).  

The industry is changing.  And we should always look at both sides of this.  

[StrikePrice]

The biggest blocker for more content for swtor over the years has been the cost and complexity of VAs. The gaming industry will fall first ... 2-3 years at most. It will take movies longer to fall, but they will. Hollywood studios will be irrelevant because an individual will be able with the help of AI to create movies of higher quality themselves. In less than 10 years, you will be able to enter at a prompt "generate a star wars trilogy that follows episode VI" and you will get it. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by StrikePrice

[NorthernNephilim]

7 minutes ago, TonyTricicolo said:

 In the very near future every low level technical job will be replaced by AI. Call centers, receptionists, book keepers, secretaries, security access control, truck drivers, fast food cashiers etc will be all replaced by AI.

They tried this in a supermarket in my country and it was a disaster! The AI said : " please insert your credit or debit card" , the blind person couldn't do that. Neither could the deaf one or the one in the wheelchair who couldn't reach the card reader. 

Bottom line, we are far from perfecting an AI system capable to replace human cashiers, as an example. 

[casirabit]

18 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Unfortunately this is the flip side of the coin.  Have to be careful here.  I could see where with preexisting characters / copyrights / contracts it would be frowned upon big time and would probably be a violation of said copyrights / contracts ... etc.  BUT in the case of newly created characters (particularly when those characters are created in house by a particular company who is responsible for their own work ... I kind of think that might be a different story.  IMO that would be a good question to ask someone with a law degree in that field of work.

I am part of an author's group on Facebook (partly because of my book (fantasy fiction) and we come across this regularly but as of right now, US Copyright will not accept any book that is not 100% written by the author, and for me, that is a big red flag.  I do have a paralegal degree, but I am also in contact with a law professor, who taught IP, and right now it is still a big No for authors wanting to register their books with the copyright office.    Will that change, probably, but not until there is a way that even if the author uses Al, they get the copyright protection for it because honestly what author in their right mind wants someone else to use their ideas?   I am iffy about Al as from what I saw on the "trial" one Al doesn't have much imagination when it comes to writing (lol)

[OlBuzzard]

2 minutes ago, casirabit said:

I am part of an author's group on Facebook (partly because of my book (fantasy fiction) and we come across this regularly but as of right now, US Copyright will not accept any book that is not 100% written by the author, and for me, that is a big red flag.  I do have a paralegal degree, but I am also in contact with a law professor, who taught IP, and right now it is still a big No for authors wanting to register their books with the copyright office.    Will that change, probably, but not until there is a way that even if the author uses Al, they get the copyright protection for it because honestly what author in their right mind wants someone else to use their ideas?   I am iffy about Al as from what I saw on the "trial" one Al doesn't have much imagination when it comes to writing (lol)

AI as a writer??  

Meatbags make interesting observations and are excellent from a standpoint of creativity ..  BUT unlikely biomechanical compliments have been created to act as a substitute at this time.  (If you catch my drift)

😉

[OlBuzzard]

13 minutes ago, NorthernNephilim said:

They tried this in a supermarket in my country and it was a disaster! The AI said : " please insert your credit or debit card" , the blind person couldn't do that. Neither could the deaf one or the one in the wheelchair who couldn't reach the card reader. 

Bottom line, we are far from perfecting an AI system capable to replace human cashiers, as an example. 

Let's face it .. HK-55 is a long way from reality (for now).

EDIT:  excellent point!

Edited July 15, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[TonyTricicolo]

16 minutes ago, NorthernNephilim said:

They tried this in a supermarket in my country and it was a disaster! The AI said : " please insert your credit or debit card" , the blind person couldn't do that. Neither could the deaf one or the one in the wheelchair who couldn't reach the card reader. 

Bottom line, we are far from perfecting an AI system capable to replace human cashiers, as an example.

Well the first iterations of AI will assist people with disabilities. For example, the neuralink is to restore vision to the blind. A microchip is attached to optical nerves behind the eye. They already have a version for deaf people. There will be no physical currency for people to interchange hands. Everything will be digital. 

It will be upon us much faster than we think. The last couple years of isolation due to Corona virus has escalated technology by 10 years. Will there be hiccups? Of course but this is the direction the world is moving towards whether we like it or not.

Edited July 15, 2023 by TonyTricicolo