StrikePrice Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 There's no need anymore to use voice actors for companions we have not yet heard. AI can generate the 50 or so lines of dialog that would be required to fully voice the new companions for the seasons. It would be great to go back and fully voice PH4-LNX for example. The stuff she says is so funny she would be one of my favorite companions if she were fully voiced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Ai voice is just a fraction of what ai can do. Look at this ai mod someone did of skyrim for a companionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQq8M88s3BU&ab_channel=ESO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 You do realize that a major reason the Actors are striking is because they want to be protected for unauthorized use of their voice and likenesses by AI and frankly I think it's a valid concern. They have a right to make a living. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikePrice Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: You do realize that a major reason the Actors are striking is because they want to be protected for unauthorized use of their voice and likenesses by AI and frankly I think it's a valid concern. They have a right to make a living. I'm not suggesting they steal anyone's voice. I'm suggesting they make new, novel voices for companions like PH4-LNX or next season's companion. It would also be great if they could secure permission from all the original voice actors to use their voices to create AI content. That way, making new content would be much easier. Of course, that would require making deals with the original VAs, but it might be possible. Edited July 14, 2023 by StrikePrice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) I'm not saying it's an out-and-out terrible idea. However, it is ethically and financially tricky. All the VA's in TOR in its 3 spoken languages have put years of their own hard work into this game and it represents their artistic expression. To suddenly say, "hey, we don't need any of you because we can just splice together anything on a computer program," rather invalidates the craft of acting at all. While I don't view it as serious an issue of worker safety or proper health insurance it is very ethically dubious. Tech is wonderful but AI needs more rules to protect both technological development and not just artificially generating performances. Edited July 14, 2023 by JakRoanin spelling 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whykara Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 They could also just hire 3 dudes on fiverr or something and have them voice a GS companion. It's really not that expensive. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the fundamental structure of how the business works, but I'm pretty sure there are more things at play than dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felleto Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Like... It's not a bad idea... It could provide VA in case Broadsword doesn't get enough money to hire new VAs (or even the old ones for that matter). I'm not against it. The ends justify the means. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Look at like this: ** We know that change is coming (not just for SWTOR) ... for the story itself. ** New companions? Not sure ... but there is that possibility. ** New AI generated voices ??? I've got to be perfectly honest here ! If there is a chance that SWTOR could use this for new companions that would not be in any violation of contracts of the older ones where some sort of contract unquestionably would be a thing to consider. Much of it depends on how some of the new contracts are being hammered out right now with the new writers / actors thing that is going down now! I must confess ... this is interesting .. VERY interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, felleto said: The ends justify the means. Like I said I find it ethically tricky. IF certain conditions were put in place, I think it could be a useful tool. If not, ick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Just now, JakRoanin said: Like I said I find it ethically tricky. IF certain conditions were put in place, I think it could be a useful tool. If not, ick! There is a LOT changing in the production of film today! I mean REALLY fast changes. A LOT of that is centered around the use of technology! I can't help but to think about Max Headroom. (I know .. a different thing ... but it just crosses my mind when I think about stuff like this). The key to the proper usage of this technology would be how any contracts in the past would read. That's something that any of us could only speculate on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikePrice Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Whykara said: They could also just hire 3 dudes on fiverr or something and have them voice a GS companion. It's really not that expensive. It's the studio time, recording time, editing etc etc. This can all be eliminated by using AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 To OP ... for whatever it's worth I hope you are correct all the way around. Now the big question(s). How much for software or other expenses? And how soon can it happen with SWTOR? (Not trying to be smart .. just saying I LIKE the idea. It would be cool to see in operation here!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikePrice Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said: To OP ... for whatever it's worth I hope you are correct all the way around. Now the big question(s). How much for software or other expenses? And how soon can it happen with SWTOR? (Not trying to be smart .. just saying I LIKE the idea. It would be cool to see in operation here!) It's very very responsible right now. I'm 100% sure that every game studio is looking into it. In two to five years, all games will be voiced and acted by AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) For a game it might be okay, but for the authors it is an exceptionally fine line right now. AI is still not very well accepted when you register a copyright with the US Copyright Office and until they do, it is frowned upon by authors. Edited July 14, 2023 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 54 minutes ago, casirabit said: For a game it might be okay, but for the authors it is an exceptionally fine line right now. AI is still not very well accepted when you register a copyright with the US Copyright Office and until they do, it is frowned upon by authors. Unfortunately this is the flip side of the coin. Have to be careful here. I could see where with preexisting characters / copyrights / contracts it would be frowned upon big time and would probably be a violation of said copyrights / contracts ... etc. BUT in the case of newly created characters (particularly when those characters are created in house by a particular company who is responsible for their own work ... I kind of think that might be a different story. IMO that would be a good question to ask someone with a law degree in that field of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darev Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 In the "writing a novel" or "biography" world there are such things as Ghost Writers. Where the published author's name isn't the person who wrote every single line of text in the book. The listed author may have only provided the rough idea or even up to 70% of the finished product and the ghost write could have finished it before it reached an editor. Usually the ghost writer isn't recognized on the book (this is 80's - 90's vague memories...no idea if it's still current). Using AI COULD be pretty similar....for NEW stuff. Sarah Silverman is actually suing an AI company because the AI was able to quote a "sizable" portion of one of her books, word for word, when she asked it about the book. The implication is that the content of the book was found by the AI, online, for free (presumably) and used/imported to "train" it. Then it spat it back out at her. I think she's going for copy-write infringement - if I remember the article correctly. So, AI is going to be really cool when all is said and done. But in its infancy, which is just starting, there's going to be a lot of hurt feelings, and lawsuits. As for actors....I've often wondered why they don't trademark their own likeness and then license it out for each project they work on. If someone does this and makes a movie for SONY, then SONY can request/pay for the license as part of the actor's fee, use it for the movie / marketing / etc...and when the agreed upon time is up, they either renew or just let it expire. The movie is still out there, just SONY can't use clips from it in other media / etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, JakRoanin said: You do realize that a major reason the Actors are striking is because they want to be protected for unauthorized use of their voice and likenesses by AI and frankly I think it's a valid concern. They have a right to make a living. They do have a right to make a living but so do the people working on the video game. If this game can't afford to pay voice actors, than they should have the right to use AI voices. They do it in movies, the do it on TV, they do it in video games all the time. The game shouldn't be relegated to have to KOTOR-esque voice interaction because they can't afford to pay them. We've always had voiced content before, and if AI voices are the only option other than text based, I say go AI voices than. They're also allowed to use other people to voice that have similar voices. Was just like on The Clone Wars series. They couldn't afford to pay the actors to voice the characters they played in the movies on the Clone Wars series, so they hired voice actors with voices similar to those of the actors so the character's would at least sound similar. Liam Neelson agreed to voice for the series as Qui-Gon Jinn as he only had a brief few scenes anyways but he did it out of love for the character and worked for a rate they could afford and was a one shot session. Can't high jack characters simply because the voice actors can't be brought in for some reason. If they can't afford to pay them, than they can't afford to pay them. It's unfortunate, but, that's just the situation the game finds itself in resource wise. Edited July 15, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I am not against AI as a whole, but I do see how it could cause massive problems and at this point, would it be worth the risks? So- called progress always has a massive human cost that makes me wary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: I am not against AI as a whole, but I do see how it could cause massive problems and at this point, would it be worth the risks? So- called progress always has a massive human cost that makes me wary. It's a valid concern and your heart is in the right place, but unfortunately the all mighty dollar really is the ultimate consideration for businesses. If it makes it more workable for them to do AI's and the alternative is like text based which people do not like and really goes against the grain for this game, they're gonna go with the AIs. Computers have been taking jobs from people for years now, and automated technologies now often do the work that humans did prior. It's just the nature of the beast. If they can do things cheaper using computers instead of people, the money factor is always gonna win out when it comes to business concerns. 3 hours ago, StrikePrice said: It's very very responsible right now. I'm 100% sure that every game studio is looking into it. In two to five years, all games will be voiced and acted by AI. I agree. It's just a matter of time. A few years from now, I think it's all gonna be voiced by AI's. Cheaper and you don't have to worry about people's schedules. Edited July 15, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 6 hours ago, StrikePrice said: There's no need anymore to use voice actors for companions we have not yet heard. AI can generate the 50 or so lines of dialog that would be required to fully voice the new companions for the seasons. It would be great to go back and fully voice PH4-LNX for example. The stuff she says is so funny she would be one of my favorite companions if she were fully voiced. No thanks, I don't want AI to rob VAs out of their work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 2 hours ago, OlBuzzard said: Unfortunately this is the flip side of the coin. Have to be careful here. I could see where with preexisting characters / copyrights / contracts it would be frowned upon big time and would probably be a violation of said copyrights / contracts ... etc. BUT in the case of newly created characters (particularly when those characters are created in house by a particular company who is responsible for their own work ... I kind of think that might be a different story. IMO that would be a good question to ask someone with a law degree in that field of work. I think, and I could be wrong, but, I do believe that because the characters are the creations of the studio/Lucasarts,they own the rights not only to the characters but to their likeness there of. That would include the voices of the characters. You have to remember, that the voice actors are playing a role and they themselves might not actually talk that way in real life. Sometimes you see interviews with actors and they don't talk anything like the characters they played did. So I don't think there would be any issues with the voices being the 'intellectual property' of the voice actors. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, during the Clone Wars series, Lucas said straight out he couldn't afford to pay the actors who played the characters in the movies to voice the characters in the Cartoon series he was doing. In fact he said something like "They make more during their coffee break than it would cost me to make a whole episode." And so he had to hire some voice actors who could do similar voices of the actors for his TV series. There was no legal issues there because he owned the likeness their of of all those characters, including the voices the characters used in the movies. He owned the copyrights to those characters, and he was able to use their likeness, that of the actors who played them, however he wished, because they were copyrighted. Naturally, I'm sure as part of their contracts, when he used their likeness he might have to pay them a small royalty fee, but that was based on the fact that they were big stars too so they could demand such things as part of their contracts. I doubt the voice actors have quite the same clout as major movie stars, so royalties to them for their likeness of their voices might not have even been in their contracts, and if they were, the royalties were probably extremely limited. My knowledge of the law is limited to Penal Law, I'm certainly no expert on businesses/copyright law, so I may be off on this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Okay I guess it comes down to this, which is more emotionally fulfilling hearing Shakespeare by Patrick Stewart or an AI? I'd vote for Sir Patrick. However, if the AI was only used for the street rabble and Sir Patrick was still King Lear I'm good. 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Just now, JakRoanin said: Okay I guess it comes down to this, which is more emotionally fulfilling hearing Shakespeare by Patrick Stewart or an AI? I'd vote for Sir Patrick. However, if the AI was only used for the street rabble and Sir Patrick was still King Lear I'm good. No arguing that logic! 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TziganeNZ Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 29 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said: I agree. It's just a matter of time. A few years from now, I think it's all gonna be voiced by AI's. Cheaper and you don't have to worry about people's schedules. Or if people have since passed (as has indeed happened with SWTOR VAs). Continuity will remain with AI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts