Stop ripping me off!

[Hrafnhildur]

So, I wanted to send a few flagship plans to a guild officer and surprise, 10 m credits mail tax?? What the ..Force is that? Why am I being ripped off ? 

This game is becoming more and more restrictive and absurd! No guild bank access for 30 days, even if the officers HAVE the possibility to decide who takes items, credits and so on. Huge taxes for a few items.. Why, just why? 

I wonder how much would I have to pay if I decide to donate my spare Satele Shan armor set to a guildie? Billions? No, i don't have that kind of money, I can't afford to buy hypercrates and don't have the time to stay in game 24/7 and speculate in GTN! 

STOP RIPPING ME OFF ! 🤬

[Shayddow]

Stay in guild for longer than 30 days, put the flagship plans in guild bank. No fee.

What I'd like to see is a way for 1-person "guilds" to be able to invite alts to their "guild".

[krackcommando]

54 minutes ago, Shayddow said:

Stay in guild for longer than 30 days, put the flagship plans in guild bank. No fee.

What I'd like to see is a way for 1-person "guilds" to be able to invite alts to their "guild".

30 days is an eternity in gaming. this rule is redundant (GMs and officers already have control) and absurd.

I agree on the vanity guilds though. BW was always intransigent on stuff like this. they made up their mind 10 years ago and then dug in. now the same geniuses are running the game at BS. so I wouldn't expect a change.

[DWho]

39 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

30 days is an eternity in gaming. this rule is redundant (GMs and officers already have control) and absurd.

It's not really about guild officers controlling access. It was about guild officers using the guild bank to bypass the trade fees (which was popping up as the workaround for the trade fees within minutes of Bioware announcing they were going to add fees to non-credit trades of high value items). Want to trade 10 hypercrates (as an alternate currency to credits) to someone for a operation carry or other high value item, just join the guild for a couple hours (or even minutes) then leave (completely tax free trade if there isn't a "cooldown"). Having to wait 30 days reduces the incentive to join guilds just for the tax free trades through the guild bank. 30 days might be too long but it should be at least a full week (7 days not just til the next weekly reset).

[krackcommando]

6 hours ago, DWho said:

It's not really about guild officers controlling access. It was about guild officers using the guild bank to bypass the trade fees (which was popping up as the workaround for the trade fees within minutes of Bioware announcing they were going to add fees to non-credit trades of high value items). Want to trade 10 hypercrates (as an alternate currency to credits) to someone for a operation carry or other high value item, just join the guild for a couple hours (or even minutes) then leave (completely tax free trade if there isn't a "cooldown"). Having to wait 30 days reduces the incentive to join guilds just for the tax free trades through the guild bank. 30 days might be too long but it should be at least a full week (7 days not just til the next weekly reset).

draconian and absurd.

people regularly break the stated speed limit. solution: speed limiters on all cars remotely controlled and activated by every state via geo fencing along the state lines. justification: we successfully stopped 10 people from dying in speed related accidents. yeah. by treating 10 million ppl like criminals.

edit: agree on the week as a compromise. but jfc! donating? lmao. grow up. really. game mismanaged so badly they're throwing garbage taxes that net everyone and everything.

Edited July 10, 2023 by krackcommando

[denavin]

8 hours ago, Shayddow said:

What I'd like to see is a way for 1-person "guilds" to be able to invite alts to their "guild".

You do it the way I do....

Create a free account with a level 1 character and promote them in rank so they can invite to the guild. Since you can't run 2 instances of SWTOR on a single computer. I log in to the free account on a separate computer ( I use my laptop ) then log on to my main account with my main system and load the character I want to invite and have the Free Account character invite them. I have been doing this for years with all 30 of my alts since I have been the only one logging into my guild for a very long time.

If you don't have a second computer then that could be a problem, you would need to borrow a computer from a friend to do it.

I use my main home built desktop system as my main computer to play SWTOR and not my laptop.

Edited July 10, 2023 by denavin

[DWho]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

draconian and absurd.

When the problem is as bad as it was (completely out of control prices and alternate currencies being used regularly - which cost real money and bordered on pay to win in some cases) draconian is unfortunately what is needed. The other options suggested were worse, like no trading CM items at all (all bind on pickup), taxes assessed on total wealth, credit wipes, etc. I'd much rather have this than any of those. Waiting 30 days (or a week) is a small price to pay.

It also slows down credit sellers replacing their mules that get banned because it takes a month for a new alt in the credit seller guild to be able to contribute to the credit seller's bank or be used to move credits around without fees. All in all it complicates the way they do business.

[denavin]

I agree that BW needs to reduce the amount of credits in the game. But they are targeting the wrong players.

Credits sync's should ONLY be applied to those with BILLIONS of credits and not for the general player with only a few million or less. It should be more of a capital gains tax instead of a flat tax.

It now cost approximately 3 credits to play the game for every 5 you make. There was recently an indecent where I made 18K for a mission but it cost me 30k to travel to 3 different planets which made a loss of 12k.

I do not have BILLIONS, I only have a few million credits and the game is now making me slowly go broke. When I run out of credits I guess there will no longer be a reason to maintain my subscription or play.

[Samcuu]

I know that there are people breaking the rules of service through the trade option (a major cause of the inflation issue) so I get why the change was made. However yes there are problems with the trading tax.

A friend was trying to level up faster and needed a lvl 50 companion, they had no credits to buy the boost. I traded them 30m credits to help them out getting their comp to lvl 50. As a thank you they wanted to trade me an OEM, but of course they had no credits and would have been taxed 2.4m to trade that item. Not that I needed the credits but it was a nice gesture to repay me. For situations like this it's completely absurd. I guess the argument could be made that they could have sold their oem on the gtn and used that money, but some ppl have time restraints ect. Idk what the solution is but yeah agree it's not ideal. 

Having said all that tho, whatever the strategy the devs are employing is possibly working to curb inflation. Gold augs are about 1/8 the cost of what they were just a few months ago for example.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Samcuu

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

When the problem is as bad as it was (completely out of control prices and alternate currencies being used regularly - which cost real money and bordered on pay to win in some cases) draconian is unfortunately what is needed. The other options suggested were worse, like no trading CM items at all (all bind on pickup), taxes assessed on total wealth, credit wipes, etc. I'd much rather have this than any of those. Waiting 30 days (or a week) is a small price to pay.

It also slows down credit sellers replacing their mules that get banned because it takes a month for a new alt in the credit seller guild to be able to contribute to the credit seller's bank or be used to move credits around without fees. All in all it complicates the way they do business.

ooo. I like the idea of CM locked to legacy. it's a cash shop. it should remain a cash shop (so to speak). but this is such a space barbie game at this point that it might cause full scale riots. though I do wonder just how much of the hypercrate purchases are made with the intent to sell (thus buying credits).

I'd be down for legacy wealth cap (per xpack) as well. reach the cap? can't make anymore $$ unless you recirculate what you have.

both are preferable to being TAXED for a trade or just giving something away. so obnoxious. really. every time BW...er...BS does something, the cure is worse than the disease. be it desertion debuffs; "fixing" toxicity in rated [sic]; capping gear ilvl (try getting your head around the various stat distributions in a 332 instance when it's populated with 252-339); 7.0 pruning to address ability bloat. it's like they're fundamentally incapable of using a scalpel when they own an axe. how the hell is a tax of any kind going to make everyday items less expensive? two or three years down the road and a xpack later? sure. if the game's still going...and half the population has turned over.  

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

Gold augs are about 1/8 the cost of what they were just a few months ago for example.

I have 6 extra gold mods (made by cybertech from the 2 gold parts). I haven't bothered making the augs and don't give a crap about selling them. they're technically there for my next class that hits 80, but I don't think I'm leveling any new specs to 80. anyway, once I got full gold augs for my 80s, I stopped caring and very quickly developed a glut of the mats (and I only started collecting them in 7.2 - they've been around since 6.0?). add that to the fact that the BS announcement turned the pvp forum into a ghost town and...well...I imagine demand is just low atm. with a lot of fear of the end causing fire sales.

Edited July 11, 2023 by krackcommando

[Darcmoon]

14 hours ago, krackcommando said:

I'd be down for legacy wealth cap (per xpack) as well. reach the cap? can't make anymore $$ unless you recirculate what you have.

There is a wealth cap.  There is a max amount you can hold on a toon and in the legacy bank.  There is also a server character limit.  Telling me I can only make, say, 5 million for this xpac unless I recirculate it (not sure how you would measure that) would probably drive me to quit.  

[DeannaVoyager]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:06 PM, DWho said:

It's not really about guild officers controlling access. It was about guild officers using the guild bank to bypass the trade fees (which was popping up as the workaround for the trade fees within minutes of Bioware announcing they were going to add fees to non-credit trades of high value items). Want to trade 10 hypercrates (as an alternate currency to credits) to someone for a operation carry or other high value item, just join the guild for a couple hours (or even minutes) then leave (completely tax free trade if there isn't a "cooldown"). Having to wait 30 days reduces the incentive to join guilds just for the tax free trades through the guild bank. 30 days might be too long but it should be at least a full week (7 days not just til the next weekly reset).

They should just ban sale runs and let the rest of the playerbase alone. The 30 day restriction only makes RMT sale runs more attractive than paying with credits or hypercrates.

Ban the sale runs and trust that the playerbase will report if/when someone is trying to buy/sell a run. 

[krackcommando]

38 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Ban the sale runs and trust that the playerbase will report if/when someone is trying to buy/sell a run. 

that's a pretty fundamental part of the game.

this whole thing feels incredibly petty to me. I do love that even trading someone some stims incurs a tax now. just lul. so petty. 

[RikuvonDrake]

alternative is an economy where most cosmetic items costs billions of credits, cant have both sadly, there gotta be credit sinks otherwise terrible again

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, RikuvonDrake said:

alternative is an economy where most cosmetic items costs billions of credits, cant have both sadly, there gotta be credit sinks otherwise terrible again

While I'm not saying you are wrong, they way they went about it was bad.  The tax on traded items is the median of sales from all servers, with some items have an additional difference due to whatever formula they decided to use.  The prices require an update to change.  If they did the update weekly, it would be better but they have only done a few game updates with no indication they updated the tax prices.  They want to bring down the inflation but the items that are traded still get taxed at the inflation price, not the actual price.

[RikuvonDrake]

Obviously, they need a better system to assess the value of an item, but I rather see them do something that do nothing and waste months or years not trying to polish a system, what we have is fine and sure there are minor flaws but its nothing game-breaking.

Edited July 11, 2023 by RikuvonDrake

[SteveTheCynic]

3 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

there gotta be credit sinks otherwise terrible again

You're right.  There have to be credit sinks, but the main debate revolves around *which* credit sinks...

[Hrafnhildur]

6 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

You're right.  There have to be credit sinks, but the main debate revolves around *which* credit sinks...

I can think of a few that won't affect all the players : 

- buy the cosmetic sets and weapons with credits instead of tech fragments

- buy old discontinued sets like the RD-31A with credits

- buy Onslaught armor sets with credits instead of tech fragments

- pay with credits instead of Cartel Coins for the ordinary aka gray colored character modifications, the ones everyone has access to when creating a new character, including the f2p players

- pay with credits instead of cartel certificates for old armor sets or decorations ( Silent Ghost armor set, all the Rakata-themed decos at Fleet) 

 

 

 

[DeannaVoyager]

17 hours ago, krackcommando said:

that's a pretty fundamental part of the game.

this whole thing feels incredibly petty to me. I do love that even trading someone some stims incurs a tax now. just lul. so petty. 

Buying achievements is now a fundamental part of the game? Really? So why are they called achievements and why is BW/BS not selling them directly? 

 

I'd say achievements are fundamental part of the game, and they shouldn't be up for sale. If content is too hard and people want to buy "achievements", they need to be renamed to something that doesn't include achieving anything in any form, and they need to be available from cartel market instead of some third party groups who openly break the ToS. 

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Buying achievements is now a fundamental part of the game? Really? So why are they called achievements and why is BW/BS not selling them directly? 

 

I'd say achievements are fundamental part of the game, and they shouldn't be up for sale. If content is too hard and people want to buy "achievements", they need to be renamed to something that doesn't include achieving anything in any form, and they need to be available from cartel market instead of some third party groups who openly break the ToS. 

carrying players in group content is a fundamental part of the game. every guild I've ever known has carried players for achievements, paid in in-game credits and items. the better the guild, the quicker they put content on farm, the sooner they start carrying for profit. don't act like you've never carried some slouch through b/c he's a friend or some garbage like that. it's the same thing.

achievements in this game are meaningless. I think 7.2 pretty much put the nail in that coffin, eh? or is it only ok for OPs runs? this is a grind game. the only achievements in this game are that you were willing to grind regardless of how bad you are (impersonal yous). this is the absolute last game I would expect ppl to be complaining about guilds or players "selling" carries. 😄

Edited July 12, 2023 by krackcommando

[Traceguy]

On 7/10/2023 at 12:31 AM, Hrafnhildur said:

So, I wanted to send a few flagship plans to a guild officer and surprise, 10 m credits mail tax?? What the ..Force is that? Why am I being ripped off ? 

Since when does it cost money to put things in the guild bank? If you have to wait 30 days, wait 30 days. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Traceguy

[Balameb]

45 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

carrying players in group content is a fundamental part of the game. every guild I've ever known has carried players for achievements, paid in in-game credits and items. the better the guild, the quicker they put content on farm, the sooner they start carrying for profit. don't act like you've never carried some slouch through b/c he's a friend or some garbage like that. it's the same thing.

achievements in this game are meaningless. I think 7.2 pretty much put the nail in that coffin, eh? or is it only ok for OPs runs? this is a grind game. the only achievements in this game are that you were willing to grind regardless of how bad you are (impersonal yous). this is the absolute last game I would expect ppl to be complaining about guilds or players "selling" carries. 😄

Nope. Fundamental part of a game is....play the actual game. Staying dead on the floor while others play for you to get an achievment that was meant to be earned can be a lot of things, but one thing is NOT is 'fundamental'.

That piece in bold...just WOW. You are basically saying that the guilds you Know instead of teaching new players how to play the game they encourage to pay to complete things? Basically asking to spend their money so you don't have to? I feel pity on the noobs you are milking.

And really every guild you know? How may guild do you know? Because the ones i'm in on a couple servers and ones i play with to do group content has never, EVER asked for single credit for people to join them.

Your post makes it more than clear that sale runs should be banned.

 

[OlBuzzard]

18 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

You're right.  There have to be credit sinks, but the main debate revolves around *which* credit sinks...

Most people are cool with credit sinks .. until it hits them where it hurts!  Then it's not so much fun!  As for OP ...  I hate the fact that certain aspects of this got caught in the crossfire.  BUT it's also obvious that some people will do whatever seems necessary to circumvent the system.  I wish there was a better answer.  Perhaps someday there will be.

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

carrying players in group content is a fundamental part of the game. every guild I've ever known has carried players for achievements, paid in in-game credits and items. the better the guild, the quicker they put content on farm, the sooner they start carrying for profit. don't act like you've never carried some slouch through b/c he's a friend or some garbage like that. it's the same thing.

achievements in this game are meaningless. I think 7.2 pretty much put the nail in that coffin, eh? or is it only ok for OPs runs? this is a grind game. the only achievements in this game are that you were willing to grind regardless of how bad you are (impersonal yous). this is the absolute last game I would expect ppl to be complaining about guilds or players "selling" carries. 😄

We must be playing different game then. Carrying or paying for carries has never been fundamental part of MY game. 

 

But let's pretend for a bit that bought achievements and corpse carries are fundamental part of the game - for arguments sake. Why are people on the pvp forum complaining about people hiding in the corner instead of fighting the enemy team? Isn't that a bit hypocritical to moan about that, then defend carries on pve? 

 

And the second point: why do you think it's okay to pay real money to third party sale run groups instead of paying cartel coins to BW/BS where the money would at least go to a correct address? Unless BW/BS is getting a cut of the sale runs, what you are saying makes no sense. Sale runs are literally stealing from what the game could profit when they are done with RMT. When they are done with in game credits, they are supporting the credit sellers. If buying "achievements" is a fundamental part of the game, why aren't they in cartel market?