'Premades'

[DeannaVoyager]

12 hours ago, farren_whyde said:

I'm pro-PvP. And that allows everyone to play as they want.

 

12 hours ago, farren_whyde said:

You are suggesting go premades go away - go away from how you want to play.

 

You are contradicting yourself. You seem to be pro-PvP only if everyone wants to play the way you want. 

 

[afwhoefuwov]

6 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Mark my words, season 3 & 4 will continue to bleed PvPers if they don’t make changes to the premade & matchmaking situation.

Yeh the only reason I'm still sticking around is to gather enough tokens for the armor.  Now the season is over for me and I only have like 5 tokens left to get, I dont think I'll keep subscribing.  Theres no point giving BW money when they dont fix the matchmaking.  Premades are fine if and only if you are with them.  Else, I agree with OP and just quit the match.  In fact, in a lot of my recent matches, people just afk when we face a premade.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by afwhoefuwov

[farren_whyde]

8 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

 

You are contradicting yourself. You seem to be pro-PvP only if everyone wants to play the way you want. 

 

No, play the way the game allows. And they can.

[JackieKo]

20 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

So yeah, you have every right to spend your money how you want and I am pretty sure you have to be subbed to post here unless that changed but doubt it. 

Hi there, 

No intention of derailing the thread, but needed to correct some misinformation around this topic. This has not changed. We are looking at ways for Preferred accounts to engage in the forums, however, nothing has been changed. An update like that would definitely be announced and communicated out. So for the time being, I am confirming that this has not changed, and the team will be investigating this forum bug. 

Thanks

[Samcuu]

I saw a dev reply to the premade thread and was like: 😱😱 false alarm 😂😂

Edited May 25, 2023 by Samcuu

[sharpenedstick]

There's no need to get rid of premades. You just put them in their own queue. Premades have zero interest in facing other premades, so that queue will never pop, but it's still an option.

At the same time, you allow people to also queue for "solos." In solos you can queue with a maximum of one other friend (so if you're in a premade 4 or 8 man, you can't sit in solo queue with someone else, but if your solo pops you get queued in alone), so that you can still play with someone. Two skilled and coordinated people can impact, and probably decide, most WZs.

The simple fact is premades exist for easy wins. That's not good for the community as a whole. Premade-only queue preserves premades as an activity (though again, EVERYONE knows premade-only queue will never pop because premades don't want challenges), while allowing their members to also sit in solo queue at the same time allows them to get games if they're willing to play alone.

Edited May 25, 2023 by sharpenedstick

[Sappharan]

2 hours ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there, 

No intention of derailing the thread, but needed to correct some misinformation around this topic. This has not changed. We are looking at ways for Preferred accounts to engage in the forums, however, nothing has been changed. An update like that would definitely be announced and communicated out. So for the time being, I am confirming that this has not changed, and the team will be investigating this forum bug. 

Thanks

It is somewhat vexing that you can post about this, but not about the problems with premades...specifically 8mans that should never have been introduced.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Sappharan

[Samcuu]

16 minutes ago, sharpenedstick said:

There's no need to get rid of premades. You just put them in their own queue. Premades have zero interest in facing other premades, so that queue will never pop, but it's still an option.

Not true whatsoever. Premades want to face other premades, they like games where there are alot of healers and tanks and where u can farm dmg. What ultimately ends up happening tho is that after several games the cream rises to the top. The teams might try to switch up their comps and try a few more times against eachother, but eventually the better team will start winning, and the losing side won't want to be farmed. That's what happened in granked 4s anyways and when there aren't enough teams to make the queue pop the game mode dies pretty quickly. So it's not necessarily just a premades don't want to face premades thing, premades are quite reliant on the solo players to make the matches more interesting. Just from my experience as a solo queue player when I get in a match with two groups of 4 on opposite teams a lot of times I can actually sway who wins the match by doing a lot of dmg on the opposing premade. The matches are just more dynamic when there is the is a larger variety of players in the queue. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sappharan said:

It is somewhat vexing that you can post about this, but not about the problems with premades...specifically 8mans that should never have been introduced.

Probably because Jackie isn't the be all end of all of important decisions on the state of the game. Why would u expect the community manager to make a snap judgment on a hot button issue like premades. It's something that the devs I'm sure will discuss and come to a decision upon as a collective group. Hopefully non decision considering premades are great for pvp when limited to 4 players at least. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Samcuu

[sharpenedstick]

3 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Not true whatsoever. Premades want to face other premades, they like games where there are alot of healers and tanks and where u can farm dmg. What ultimately ends up happening tho is that after several games the cream rises to the top. The teams might try to switch up their comps and try a few more times against eachother, but eventually the better team will start winning, and the losing side won't want to be farmed. That's what happened in granked 4s anyways and when there aren't enough teams to make the queue pop the game mode dies pretty quickly. So it's not necessarily just a premades don't want to face premades thing, premades are quite reliant on the solo players to make the matches more interesting. Just from my experience as a solo queue player when I get in a match with two groups of 4 on opposite teams a lot of times I can actually sway who wins the match by doing a lot of dmg on the opposing premade. The matches are just more dynamic when there is the is a larger variety of players in the queue.

lol sure, we'll pretend premades want to play against premades. It only strengthens the value of a premade-only queue, because now we can say it will get used for those Steel vs Steel experiences all true premaders want.

[Samcuu]

4 minutes ago, sharpenedstick said:

lol sure, we'll pretend premades want to play against premades. It only strengthens the value of a premade-only queue, because now we can say it will get used for those Steel vs Steel experiences all true premaders want.

Thanks for the reply. It's really a perfect example of ppl spouting misinformation on the forums, speaking on subjects they clearly know nothing about, in a sad attempt to influence the devs one way or another 👍👍😂😂

[sharpenedstick]

3 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Thanks for the reply. It's really a perfect example of ppl spouting misinformation on the forums, speaking on subjects they clearly know nothing about, in a sad attempt to influence the devs one way or another 👍👍😂😂

I'm supporting mechanics that further your stated goal of playing against other premades, and you're upset. Just no pleasing some people.

[Sappharan]

20 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Probably because Jackie isn't the be all end of all of important decisions on the state of the game. Why would u expect the community manager to make a snap judgment on a hot button issue like premades. It's something that the devs I'm sure will discuss and come to a decision upon as a collective group. Hopefully non decision considering premades are great for pvp when limited to 4 players at least. 

Even something as basic as, "we're aware of this issue and are discussing internally," would have been enough.  I am not asking for a lot here.  Almost no one is.  A simple acknowledgment of our frustration would be good.

[Samcuu]

13 minutes ago, sharpenedstick said:

I'm supporting mechanics that further your stated goal of playing against other premades, and you're upset. Just no pleasing some people.

I didn't comment on your idea which might be a decent compromise. I'm just saying that your statement of "we all know premades don't want to face eachother" is patently false. Some do shy away from other premades, many don't and and in fact want the smoke. You made a cynical comment about something that's clear to me u have little experience in.

[sharpenedstick]

7 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

I didn't comment on your idea which might be a decent compromise. I'm just saying that your statement of "we all know premades don't want to face eachother" is patently false. Some do shy away from other premades, many don't and and in fact want the smoke. You made a cynical comment about something that's clear to me u have little experience in.

As long as you support getting premades out of normal queue, any other ill-informed beliefs you hold are absolutely irrelevant.

Welcome to the cause!

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, sharpenedstick said:

As long as you support getting premades out of normal queue, any other ill-informed beliefs you hold are absolutely irrelevant.

Welcome to the cause!

The matchmaking system has already been tweaked with priority being to make a greater effort to match premades against eachother. Next logical step is to reduce premades back to 4 man groups max. Those are good compromises to alleviate the issues on the premade hater side. After that I'd say git guud. Premades shouldn't be separated out, ppl need to learn. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Samcuu

[sharpenedstick]

5 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

The matchmaking system has already been tweaked with priority being to make a greater effort to match premades against eachother. Next logical step is to reduce premades back to 4 man groups max. Those are good compromises to alleviate the issues on the premade hater side. After that I'd say git guud. Premades shouldn't be separated out, ppl need to git guud. 

Yup, there it is. Hence why premades don't want premades out of normal queue. We both know it, but it's always fun to see premaders spin their wheels to deny it.

[Samcuu]

11 minutes ago, sharpenedstick said:

Yup, there it is. Hence why premades don't want premades out of normal queue. We both know it, but it's always fun to see premaders spin their wheels to deny it.

Crazy bro...guess I'm just dreaming when I see ppl in swtor discords im in trying to organize 8 v 8 premades against eachother 😂😂

Honest question for you. Your thinking is that premades group up so they can win matches easily? That's what you think their motivation is? 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Samcuu

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there, 

No intention of derailing the thread, but needed to correct some misinformation around this topic. This has not changed. We are looking at ways for Preferred accounts to engage in the forums, however, nothing has been changed. An update like that would definitely be announced and communicated out. So for the time being, I am confirming that this has not changed, and the team will be investigating this forum bug. 

Thanks

Would love you guys to actually comment on the premade topic. It’s not like we haven’t been asking since December last year 🤷🏻‍♀️

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Why would u expect the community manager to make a snap judgment on a hot button issue like premades

It wouldn’t be a snap decision though. We’ve only been asking for BioWare to address this since December last year. How much longer should we have to wait for the community manager or anyone at BioWare to start communicating with the community on such a contentious issue that’s driving people from the game. 

[Nee-Elder]

12 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It wouldn’t be a snap decision though. We’ve only been asking for BioWare to address this since December last year.

i personally don't place any "blame" upon JackieKo , since she's only allowed to be the messenger of a DEV message authorized first by @EricMusco to post.

i have no doubt BioWare is not only aware of these many many  "premades are ______!!!!! "  type threads but are also constantly discussing them internally, until they're ready to announce something significant.

Once 7.3 update drops , i'm guessing they will comment more broadly on this particular topic.  ( even though 1 of the devs sorta already did give at least an indication-of-awareness with this:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929508-arena-objective-changes-coming-to-pvp-season-3/  )

Edited May 26, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[TrixxieTriss]

50 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

The matchmaking system has already been tweaked with priority being to make a greater effort to match premades against eachother. Next logical step is to reduce premades back to 4 man groups max. Those are good compromises to alleviate the issues on the premade hater side.

But that matchmaking isn’t happening consistently. From the anecdotal evidence I’ve been able to gather, it’s actually getting worse on some servers & at different times of the day when population drops. 

It’s why most of us complaining about premades don’t trust this mixed queue system because it always favours premades when the population numbers drop. Wether that’s because of time of day or naturally low server population. And because it’s never really worked in the 11 years BioWare has said it’s been tweaking it. 

But you are right about one thing that I think just about everyone discussing premades can agree on. That premades should never have had an increase to 8 man size. And BioWare could easily address this one thing mid season with a patch to reduced the max size back to 4 man. That would show they are listening & care that it is damaging PvP. 

Personally, I’d like to see BioWare add a toggle to the queue so that players can choose to be in matches with premade or solo only. They can make the default with premades & then it’s up to the players to decide if they want to use the toggle & potentially wait longer for a solo only match. 

[Samcuu]

22 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How much longer should we have to wait for the community manager or anyone at BioWare to start communicating with the community on such a contentious issue that’s driving people from the game

I'd say it's pretty apparent what your answer is gonna be don't you think? The silence speaks volumes. Premades are good for the community.  

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

i personally don't place any "blame" upon JackieKo , since she's only allowed to be the messenger of a DEV message authorized first by @EricMusco to post.

i have no doubt BioWare is not only aware of these many many  "premades are ______!!!!! "  type threads but are also constantly discussing them internally, until they're ready to announce something significant.

Once 7.3 update drops , i'm guessing they will comment more broadly on this particular topic.  ( even though 1 of the devs sorta already did give at least an indication-of-awareness with this:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929508-arena-objective-changes-coming-to-pvp-season-3/  )

I also don’t blame Jackie for not having a solution, it is Eric’s & the dev teams responsibility to come up with a solution.

But as community manager, it is her job to manage this contentious issue on the forums. Staying silent & not showing any empathy towards the player’s having such a bad experience is only making the issue worse. 

Its BioWares continuing silence on this issue contributing to the player anger because we are all frustrated at their lack of communication about it since December (6 months).

If they said, we know it’s an issue for a cohort of players & we are looking at ways to address it. That would release some of the “pressure” / frustration we are feeling & it wouldnt be turning to anger & making people quit PvP.

If the devs are already discussing changes in 7.3 like medals & mission completion numbers & class changes. Then they should be discussing premades & matchmaking as well because it’s a bigger issue for some of us than medals & mission completion.  And to be clear, those issues are just as important. But if premades aren’t addressed too, then it will make little difference to those who leave PvP or the game over premades. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

6 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

I'd say it's pretty apparent what your answer is gonna be don't you think? The silence speaks volumes. Premades are good for the community.  

You should never assume anything. 
 

If that’s what they really think. They should have the courage to say it. Then those of us who disagree will make our decision on wether we stay or go.

Edited May 26, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

Crazy bro...guess I'm just dreaming when I see ppl in swtor discords im in trying to organize 8 v 8 premades against eachother 😂😂

Honest question for you. Your thinking is that premades group up so they can win matches easily? That's what you think their motivation is? 

Then why not give players the agency & system to do that in the game more easily. Ie, fix the challenge system bug that’s stopping that from happening or give them an 8 vs 8 queue option 🤷🏻‍♀️