Make the game harder during class stories

[Diamaht]

29 minutes ago, DWho said:

You could actually provide feedback. That might help instead of just saying over and over the game is too easy. Give examples of what you consider a challenge. Should a planet mini boss kill you 3 out of every 4 times you fight it. Should you win the fight with less than 10% health left. Should the battle take 5-10 minutes. These are obviously exaggerations but what exactly is your definition of a challenge from the game in something more concrete than a vague "I'll know it when I see it response". Then maybe there could be a discussion about how to accomplish it in a way other than upending the entire game.

Ok

On 5/21/2023 at 8:59 PM, Diamaht said:

I'll give you one of the many examples you encounter during the leveling process:  I leveled up a knight, after getting to the final story boss on Coruscant, I complete the dialog and after a full planet of buildup the battle starts.  I Force Leap and the boss dies.  What justification is there for that?

That's a genuine question.

This is me from page two.

Im about to finish a planet with my Sniper.  I'll let you know how that goes.  How many examples do you need?

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

Ok

This is me from page two.

Im about to finish a planet with my Sniper.  I'll let you know how that goes.  How many examples do you need?

That is just an anecdotal comment that doesn't address at all what you consider a challenge. You are just saying that boss doesn't present a challenge (an "I'll know it when I see it response"). What result would you have considered challenging?

Edit: What I am asking for is what you do consider challenging? Listing things you don't find challenging doesn't advance the conversation at all because we cannot ascertain what the goal is other than a vague "more challenging".

Edited May 23, 2023 by DWho

[DWho]

21 minutes ago, Tentou said:

An Ironman version of the class stories, complete with an achievement and title, seems like an easy win. Would bring new and past players into the game alike for little to no development cost

How would you defiine this Ironman version? What criteria would you use to classify it as such?

[Ardrossan]

2 hours ago, bhoowy said:

WAM vendor is only available during Double XP Event. I also believe you suspicions are in error.

I fully agree with the OP and I also find the game tad dull. I posted a suggestion to make WAM vendor permanently available here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929608-white-acute-module-availability-outside-of-2xp - I think this is the only realistic hope we have.

Buy the WAM during 2xp, use it outside the event. It's not a suspicion, I've been using the WAM outside of 2xp to slow my leveling for literal years. 

One of the reasons why I mention the WAM so much on this forum is that many of y'all are dedicated to this belief that it only works in 2xp despite people repeatedly telling you otherwise. If you don't believe me, try it yourself, it's not difficult to test. The ideas I gave for increasing the difficulty are not hypotheticals I just made up, I do them in my own gameplay. 

[Ardrossan]

18 hours ago, Diamaht said:

I think that Bioware should add to the gameplay experience.  Leave story mode in if that how they want to play.  Im not going to go away just because somebody else might not like it.  Suggesting that I should is insulting and selfish.

Current state is hurting the game, therby hurting everyone.

If you agree with the too easy stance then fight for it.  Let others sort out there own feelings on it.

I direct you to this comment and suggest you read it. Bolded is a very accurate description of your communication style, and it's very similar to your opinion on classic servers: it could have been a good idea but ruined by the way you went about asking for it.

16 hours ago, raikme said:

The way you're asking for it is the real problem.

You are demanding, you're not asking. You think every single player has the same standards as you as if you are the center of the world and everyone should play the exact same way you do.

Instead of being this super-centric person, you should ask "Hey, can we have an OPTION to increase difficulty while playing the story?". This would be way better received.

A lot of people wants it easy, you and some other that I don't know of wants it hard, neither should be mandatory it should be an option.

Learn how to ask for things. Do not demand anything from anyone and don't think everyone should have your standards.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Ardrossan

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

 

Edit: What I am asking for is what you do consider challenging? Listing things you don't find challenging doesn't advance the conversation at all because we cannot ascertain what the goal is other than a vague "more challenging".

Bar is set so low that we can do stuff like the great bathroom+fridge test.

 

Door opens and there,finally, Darth Yawn, annihilator of Bothawuii. Some Dialogue wheel spinning  about how thousands have fallen before him, and so will you. Then, it begins! Duel of fates as two powerful force wizards unleash hell upon one another! 

 

...once the fight starts,take a bathroom break, remember to wash your hands! Go get yourself a drink. Take your time. Return two minutes later. What has happened? 

 

Encounters where playerchar  doesn't survive such a hellish trial might not be challenging,but they are more challenging than class stories. So we could start here. Make combat so relevant, that your character doesnt survive a 2 min midfight afk.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Stradlin

[DWho]

23 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Bar is set so low that we can do stuff like the great bathroom+fridge test.

 

Door opens and there,finally, Darth Yawn, annihilator of Bothawuii. Some Dialogue wheel spinning  about how thousands have fallen before him, and so will you. Then, it begins! Duel of fates as two powerful force wizards unleash hell upon one another! 

 

...once the fight starts,take a bathroom break, remember to wash your hands! Go get yourself a drink. Take your time. Return two minutes later. What has happened? 

 

Encounters where playerchar  doesn't survive such a hellish trial might not be challenging,but they are more challenging than class stories. So we could start here. Make combat so relevant, that your character doesnt survive a 2 min midfight afk.

 

OK, that's a start. Not particularly concrete but can be worked with. It sounds like your character is not taking enough damage (or your companion is healing too much). This is very likely specific to the player and character so we can start there.

- An additional debuff that lowers your health and damage (maybe determined by how far you out-level the opponent or what your total stat bonus is or even potentially specific to that "boss")

-If your character doesn't do anything for 30 seconds, end the fight and kill the character (repair costs apply). A general anti-afk solution.

-A debuff that reduces your companion's healing and damage (also based on how powerful your character is relative to the opposition).

1) So, how long should this hypothetical fight take if the player is participating. one minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 seconds?

2) Where should you be at health wise when the fight ends. 80%, 50%, 25%, 10%?

3) Is it really necessary to make the entire game "harder" so that this one fight can be challenging?

4) should there be a minimum level of character below which the above debuffs don't apply (to keep the game in reach of newer players without as much firepower and skill)

 

[Diamaht]

3 hours ago, DWho said:

That is just an anecdotal comment that doesn't address at all what you consider a challenge. You are just saying that boss doesn't present a challenge (an "I'll know it when I see it response"). What result would you have considered challenging?

Edit: What I am asking for is what you do consider challenging? Listing things you don't find challenging doesn't advance the conversation at all because we cannot ascertain what the goal is other than a vague "more challenging".

Good lord.  Get over yourself.  A 2 or 3 second battle is bad, I can't dumb it down more than that for you.  It's not complicated.  

What a waste of time this is.

[DWho]

36 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

Good lord.  Get over yourself.  A 2 or 3 second battle is bad, I can't dumb it down more than that for you.  It's not complicated.  

What a waste of time this is.

I take it the battle with your sniper didn't go as you planned. And you still didn't address what you consider an adequate challenge. Until you do there is no way to address your concern. We could just up the health and damage randomly but since you have no idea what you really consider challenging, that is just shooting in the dark. Come back when you have something positive to add to the discussion

Edit: if a 2-3 second battle isn't acceptable what is? 30 sec, a minute, more. What is the goal post?

Edited May 23, 2023 by DWho

[Spikanor]

12 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

Can bioware offer options to improve the game difficulty? Sure, others have mentioned an option to shift story instances to the player's level, or at least away from the starter planet level range that makes finale bosses a faceroll. They could also add a debuff that weakens companion HP or even their character HP. But those of us who have wanted increased difficulty in this game for a long time have found tools and strategies independent of bioware, because complaining to bioware will rarely be successful.

tell is something new that complaining to bioware is not going to work.

we all know that there give notting about it since we all have a big complain about the new armor system and most off the 7.0 chance's and still notting has been done to chance it back so tell is something new about it what we all ready know.

12 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

It already exists, the WAM works fine outside of 2xp, that dude was misinformed. 

thats only working in the double exp event and not outside the event at all since the missions you compleet have a basic exp reward so that item is not going to work.

the only thing the WAM is doing is to remove the double exp in the double exp events thats the only thing it do's notting else.

 

[Ardrossan]

11 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

thats only working in the double exp event and not outside the event at all since the missions you compleet have a basic exp reward so that item is not going to work.

the only thing the WAM is doing is to remove the double exp in the double exp events thats the only thing it do's notting else.

 

Dude, I've tested it multiple times on characters, I know it works. Have you put the WAM on a fresh character and leveled them to 80? If not, you don't know what you're talking about, and instead of pointleslly continuing to argue with me, why don't you put the debuff on and see for yourself? 

Also lol that is not how xp is calculated, otherwise consumable xp boosts wouldn't increase mission exp payouts.  

smh players on this forum who think I'm arguing a hypothetical or something. I already benefit from the WAM, if you don't want to use it, you're the only one that loses out. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Ardrossan

[DWho]

14 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

thats only working in the double exp event and not outside the event at all since the missions you compleet have a basic exp reward so that item is not going to work.

the only thing the WAM is doing is to remove the double exp in the double exp events thats the only thing it do's notting else.

Take a look at Swortista's page linked below. Specifically the section about "Outside the Event"

https://swtorista.com/articles/how-to-level-slower-in-swtor-white-acute-module-guide/

[Diamaht]

49 minutes ago, DWho said:

I take it the battle with your sniper didn't go as you planned. And you still didn't address what you consider an adequate challenge. Until you do there is no way to address your concern. We could just up the health and damage randomly but since you have no idea what you really consider challenging, that is just shooting in the dark. Come back when you have something positive to add to the discussion

Edit: if a 2-3 second battle isn't acceptable what is? 30 sec, a minute, more. What is 

So you're trolling.  I have a job, you'll have to chill have on the sniper info.  Ill let you know, at a guess lets say 4 seconds 

[casirabit]

52 minutes ago, DWho said:

Take a look at Swortista's page linked below. Specifically the section about "Outside the Event"

https://swtorista.com/articles/how-to-level-slower-in-swtor-white-acute-module-guide/

I took the liberty and copied part of the "Outside the Event" for the people who say they don't have time to click a link to read it.  Here is what it says:               "

Outside the Event

Now here’s where things get interesting – the White Acute Module’s description specifically says it applies to event xp gain. However, players have also noticed it seems to work outside the event. It doesn’t fully reduce XP gain to the same rate as when the game was first launched, but it does seem to reduce how much xp you get while leveling even when the event is not running which is pretty cool. So if you’re one of those players who wants to level a bit slower, you’ll want to buy a bunch of the White Acute Modules, and send them to your characters who you are planning to level, and maybe even buy a few extra to store in your Legacy Bank for any characters you create in the future, since you can only buy the White Acute module during the event."

[Spikanor]

35 minutes ago, casirabit said:

I took the liberty and copied part of the "Outside the Event" for the people who say they don't have time to click a link to read it.  Here is what it says:               "

Outside the Event

Now here’s where things get interesting – the White Acute Module’s description specifically says it applies to event xp gain. However, players have also noticed it seems to work outside the event. It doesn’t fully reduce XP gain to the same rate as when the game was first launched, but it does seem to reduce how much xp you get while leveling even when the event is not running which is pretty cool. So if you’re one of those players who wants to level a bit slower, you’ll want to buy a bunch of the White Acute Modules, and send them to your characters who you are planning to level, and maybe even buy a few extra to store in your Legacy Bank for any characters you create in the future, since you can only buy the White Acute module during the event."

that means you can only buy then when there is a double exp event running.

so that means you can buy one 3 or 4 time's a year since the double exp events are only comming 4 time's a year or so.

and now to the part of doesn't fully reduce exp gain means its also not much and that you still level up to fast.

 

@Ardrossan

the exp is not the only problem why the story line missions its also the missions you get on lower level planets.

we all know that each class always most go back at some point in there story line all is it in chapter 2 or 3 to a starter planet to have a fight there and some of then have it more then others.

then what is now fun when you are level 30 and have compleet the first chapter and most go to a starter planet to fight against a lvl 10 or lvl 12 enemy.

sure the developers can chance that but we all know there never are going to do it so the story line will stay boring for ever more.

[xxSHOONYxx]

18 hours ago, Diamaht said:

To make sure we understand you.  1 or 2 shotting a main story, planet ending boss is ok?

Just want be clear on what you are defending.

You are wasting your breath.
If you do simple google search you find plenty of people asking what happened to the difficulty of the game or new players asking when does the game actually get challenging and they get bored. This clips alone proves your point, someone reviewing the game with a new account without any fancy stuff that has not played it before.

https://youtu.be/h97_3WLW-pw?t=817
https://youtu.be/h97_3WLW-pw?t=1192
https://youtu.be/h97_3WLW-pw?t=1496

The difficulty was changed and it took a big nose dive starting 4.0.
Companions went from needing no gear and affection level 10 in 1-3.0 to influence level 50 in 4.0 and needing no gear, to the point you could be in a pvp zone at max level and have a lvl 50 companion set as heals go afk and you wouldn't die.
And as they said in 4.0 "new leveling experience, has never been more exiting"... 

At the end of the day people just have to realize or assume the game is being made for casual players that like things easy. For the people that want a challenge or like endgame this is not the game for you. 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

8 hours ago, Diamaht said:

I'll give you one of the many examples you encounter during the leveling process:  I leveled up a knight, after getting to the final story boss on Coruscant, I complete the dialog and after a full planet of buildup the battle starts.  I Force Leap and the boss dies.  What justification is there for that?

That's a genuine question.

I'm calling BS on this. Straight up.

And if it did happen that was technical glitch. That doesn't happen in normal game. You rarely even kill an add with a single Force leap.

So this is what I did to test this claim. I first went to Korriban and than to Dromond Kass to see what a Force Leap would do to trash.

But I didn't do it on a leveling character. I did it on my Level 80 Carnage Marauder. Full BIS 336 geared and full gold augs.

Just as a note - You need to build resources (Rage) on a Carnage Marauder. You don't have a full energy pool to start, you have no rage when you start so you're not starting with a burst attack because you don't have the rage for it so you need to use at least one rage building attack first before you can do a burst attack. You can start with full rage if you use Bloodthirst and you have the combat proficiency that allows that, but I don't use it and even if I did it has a 3 minute cool down so you're not using it on every pull. So you're starting with zero rage. If I have some rage because I just built some on the previous mob a second ago and a I leap to another mob, than I might be able to start with a burst attack, but safe to say at least half the time (probably more) I'm starting with little to no rage. Assume hits as using Ravage, Smash, Massacre, etc., obviously a burst attack shortens things, but I didn't always have burst attacks on pull to start with.

If I say "hits", I'm generally not talking about basic attack or Battering assault. Sometimes I had extra rage from the last pull. If you're talking about about only using one these add a few more hits than whats listed below.

On Korriban I went to the testing area with the different caves.

On the trash outside :

Renegade Trooper - Level 6 - 155 Health

Them I was able to kill with a Force Leap about 85% of the time. But they were it.

The Slave Rebellion Leader (Gold) - Level 6 powershot - 915 Health

You never could kill him with just a Force Leap, it would take one or two hits after the Leap (One if it was a burst attack, two if it wasn't)

Renegade Leaders - Level 7 - 175 Health

Sometimes I killed them with Just Force Leap, but half the time I'd say it took another hit to drop them.

Inside the Caves where there are tons of Shyrack Shriekers - Level 7 - 465 Health

I never killed them with Just Force Leap ever. Always took a shot after Force Leap to kill them.  You never killed any gold with with a Force Leap, usually took 2 more hits  to kill them. Once good burst attack might do it after leap, but a second hit wasn't unusual. This on a Starter Planet.

Than I went to Dromond Kass -

You never killed anything with just a Force Leap and I'm talking about basic trash.

Vine Cat Packrunner - Level 10 - 100 Health - Force Leap and at least one attack, sometimes two, but mostly just one. (V.T. Usually did it.)

Yozusk - level 10 - 1200 Health - Force Leap and  2 or 3 hits, sometimes one with a good burst attack.

Yozusk Titan - Level 11 - 1300 Health - Force Leap and 3 hits or 2 burst attacks. One I killed with 1 burst attack 1 time.

Gundark Stalker - level 10 - 1100 Health - Force Leap and 1 or 2 hits. 1 if it was a burst attack.

Gundark Lifetaker - Level 10 - 2500  Health - Force Leap and at least 3 hits, 2 burst attacks could do it.

Slothful sleen - level 10 - 1200 Health - Force Leap and one decent hit did the job.

Mandalore Equilizer - Level 11 2700 Health (Golds)- 4-5 hits non burst attacks or 2 or 3 burst attacks. This never varied much and I did about 30 of these guys.

Kregg (Mandolore Boss) - Level 11 - 7800 Health-  'Personal Challange' heroic -

He took about 8 hits. 3 burst attacks and 5 non-burst attacks.

...........................................................................................................................................................

Now, if anyone would like to attack my competency and they are on Star Forge, name a time and place and I will be happy to accept some sort of test of my competency and knowledge of my class and spec. Not claiming to be among the best, but I'm certainly competent and know my class and spec.

Even if I could have killed every trash add I came across with 1 Force Leap, which I most certainly couldn't most of the time with the only exception being the Renegade Troopers - Level 6 - 155 Health on Korriban which I was always able to kill with just a Force leap. So what? A Level 80 Carnage Marauder in full BIS 336 gear with full Gold augs, even with Level sync I should be able to smoke them by coughing on them.

I didn't even bother testing higher level planets because Dromond Kass was more than enough to prove the point. A level 10 planet.

That said, these claims of killing bosses with one Force Leap, killing stuff with just basic attack in one or two or even three hits is utter and total horsecrap.

If you're going to insist on lying to make a point about Forcing newbies and casuals into mandatory increases in difficulty of story or (and this was your pal, not you) they should lose rewards for doing story with its present level of difficulty (or lack there of as it is certainly the case), pick a lie that can't be tested and proven false in 15 minutes by anyone.

Even if your story about your Knight killing the final story boss on Coruscant with one Force Leap were true, surely you didn't stop playing the game after that wherein you would have realized that even if that did happen it was most certainly some sort of technical glitch and you probably would have never encountered such an occurrence ever again, not even on trash mobs and thus have no excuse for trying to use that to make your point about the state of difficulty in story and thus in using it as an example of the overall state of things, it is still a lie in intention.

That or your e-pen is monoloth.

Just say this is your opinion and this is what you would like to see happen and be done with it. Your entitled to your opinions even if other people disagree with them.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Diamaht]

2 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I'm calling BS on this. Straight up.

And if it did happen that was technical glitch. That doesn't happen in normal game. You rarely even kill an add with a single Force leap.

So this is what I did to test this claim. I first went to Korriban and than to Dromond Kass to see what a Force Leap would do to trash.

But I didn't do it on a leveling character. I did it on my Level 80 Carnage Marauder. Full BIS 336 geared and full gold augs.

Just as a note - You need to build resources (Rage) on a Carnage Marauder. You don't have a full energy pool to start, you have no rage when you start so you're not starting with a burst attack because you don't have the rage for it so you need to use at least one rage building attack first before you can do a burst attack. You can start with full rage if you use Bloodthirst and you have the combat proficiency that allows that, but I don't use it and even if I did it has a 3 minute cool down so you're not using it on every pull. So you're starting with zero rage. If I have some rage because I just built some on the previous mob a second ago and a I leap to another mob, than I might be able to start with a burst attack, but safe to say at least half the time (probably more) I'm starting with little to no rage. Assume hits as using Ravage, Smash, Massacre, etc., obviously a burst attack shortens things, but I didn't always have burst attacks on pull to start with.

If I say "hits", I'm generally not talking about basic attack or Battering assault. Sometimes I had extra rage from the last pull. If you're talking about about only using one these add a few more hits than whats listed below.

On Korriban I went to the testing area with the different caves.

On the trash outside :

Renegade Trooper - Level 6 - 155 Health

Them I was able to kill with a Force Leap about 85% of the time. But they were it.

The Slave Rebellion Leader (Gold) - Level 6 powershot - 915 Health

You never could kill him with just a Force Leap, it would take one or two hits after the Leap (One if it was a burst attack, two if it wasn't)

Renegade Leaders - Level 7 - 175 Health

Sometimes I killed them with Just Force Leap, but half the time I'd say it took another hit to drop them.

Inside the Caves where there are tons of Shyrack Shriekers - Level 7 - 465 Health

I never killed them with Just Force Leap ever. Always took a shot after Force Leap to kill them.  You never killed any gold with with a Force Leap, usually took 2 more hits  to kill them. Once good burst attack might do it after leap, but a second hit wasn't unusual. This on a Starter Planet.

Than I went to Dromond Kass -

You never killed anything with just a Force Leap and I'm talking about basic trash.

Vine Cat Packrunner - Level 10 - 100 Health - Force Leap and at least one attack, sometimes two, but mostly just one. (V.T. Usually did it.)

Yozusk - level 10 - 1200 Health - Force Leap and  2 or 3 hits, sometimes one with a good burst attack.

Yozusk Titan - Level 11 - 1300 Health - Force Leap and 3 hits or 2 burst attacks. One I killed with 1 burst attack 1 time.

Gundark Stalker - level 10 - 1100 Health - Force Leap and 1 or 2 hits. 1 if it was a burst attack.

Gundark Lifetaker - Level 10 - 2500  Health - Force Leap and at least 3 hits, 2 burst attacks could do it.

Slothful sleen - level 10 - 1200 Health - Force Leap and one decent hit did the job.

Mandalore Equilizer - Level 11 2700 Health (Golds)- 4-5 hits non burst attacks or 2 or 3 burst attacks. This never varied much and I did about 30 of these guys.

Kregg (Mandolore Boss) - Level 11 - 7800 Health-  'Personal Challange' heroic -

He took about 8 hits. 3 burst attacks and 5 non-burst attacks.

...........................................................................................................................................................

Now, if anyone would like to attack my competency and they are on Star Forge, name a time and place and I will be happy to accept some sort of test of my competency and knowledge of my class and spec. Not claiming to be among the best, but I'm certainly competent and know my class and spec.

Even if I could have killed every trash add I came across with 1 Force Leap, which I most certainly couldn't most of the time with the only exception being the Renegade Troopers - Level 6 - 155 Health on Korriban which I was always able to kill with just a Force leap. So what? A Level 80 Carnage Marauder in full BIS 336 gear with full Gold augs, even with Level sync I should be able to smoke them by coughing on them.

I didn't even bother testing higher level planets because Dromond Kass was more than enough to prove the point. A level 10 planet.

That said, these claims of killing bosses with one Force Leap, killing stuff with just basic attack in one or two or even three hits is utter and total horsecrap.

If you're going to insist on lying to make a point about Forcing newbies and casuals into mandatory increases in difficulty of story or (and this was your pal, not you) they should lose rewards for doing story with its present level of difficulty (or lack there of as it is certainly the case), pick a lie that can't be tested and proven false in 15 minutes by anyone.

Even if your story about your Knight killing the final story boss on Coruscant with one Force Leap were true, surely you didn't stop playing the game after that wherein you would have realized that even if that did happen it was most certainly some sort of technical glitch and you probably would have never encountered such an occurrence ever again, not even on trash mobs and thus have no excuse for trying to use that to make your point about the state of difficulty in story and thus in using it as an example of the overall state of things, it is still a lie in intention.

That or your e-pen is monoloth.

Just say this is your opinion and this is what you would like to see happen and be done with it. Your entitled to your opinions even if other people disagree with them.

 

You have companions remember.  And the planets and weekly content over level you.  I likely had a saber throw in there too since that is my habbit as an opener, as was stated a few posts later.  The point of the comment was that I landed on the guy and he died right away, literally that fast, and Im sure Kira helped.  Story mobs fall like trash mobs on the world map, these are simply facts.

You are being hyper literal, with a straw man experiment, in an attempt to gas light the issue away.  You gate keepers are going to be the slow death of this game and you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

 

Edit:  Another edit for tactfulness.  Going to get myself in trouble lol.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Diamaht

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

12 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

You are being hyper literal, with a straw man experiment, in an attempt to gas light the issue away.  You gate keepers are going to be the slow death of this game and you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

Okay, well, if I took it to literally, and you kinda meant it a bit fallaciously just trying say "it's really easy" and it wasn't literally just that, than that's fine.
And dude, I don't disagree with you on that. It is exceedingly easy.

And there is room for compromise here. What I don't understand is why it is a problem for it to be optional. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Because if the idea here is to keep the player base as happy as possible for the longevity of the game, which I am all for, I don't want to see the game end, than forcing large segments of the games population to changes they don't want doesn't seem like a good way to go about it.

And from my POV, the insistence that this change be mandatory for everyone whether they like it or not, not giving them the option to continue to play the game as they always have and are comfortable with, I gotta be honest, I see what you guys are saying, if you get your way as being the avatars of the NOT slow death of this game, but rather expedient death.

Casuals and newbies are the rank and file of this game. We're not.

Doesn't matter to me if they make story harder, it's still gonna be wussified compared to Raiding and PVP. No one's gonna earn any game cred saying "I did the hard story". Hardcore gamers will laugh their asses off at them.

And far as the games longevity, I'm not worried. You give people lightsabers and Jedi and Sith to kill, people will come.

I don't sweat the "game is dying", "game is ded", "game will be ded in a year" crowd. They been ranting that smack ad nauseam for the last 10 years.

[Diamaht]

24 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Okay, well, if I took it to literally, and you kinda meant it a bit fallaciously just trying say "it's really easy" and it wasn't literally just that, than that's fine.
And dude, I don't disagree with you on that. It is exceedingly easy.

And there is room for compromise here. What I don't understand is why it is a problem for it to be optional. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Because if the idea here is to keep the player base as happy as possible for the longevity of the game, which I am all for, I don't want to see the game end, than forcing large segments of the games population to changes they don't want doesn't seem like a good way to go about it.

And from my POV, the insistence that this change be mandatory for everyone whether they like it or not, not giving them the option to continue to play the game as they always have and are comfortable with, I gotta be honest, I see what you guys are saying, if you get your way as being the avatars of the NOT slow death of this game, but rather expedient death.

Casuals and newbies are the rank and file of this game. We're not.

Doesn't matter to me if they make story harder, it's still gonna be wussified compared to Raiding and PVP. No one's gonna earn any game cred saying "I did the hard story". Hardcore gamers will laugh their asses off at them.

And far as the games longevity, I'm not worried. You give people lightsabers and Jedi and Sith to kill, people will come.

I don't sweat the "game is dying", "game is ded", "game will be ded in a year" crowd. They been ranting that smack ad nauseam for the last 10 years.

Its an issue because you can't present a product this way.  People by and large want to play a game as is and expect the developers to provide a reasonable amount of challenge and engagement by default.  A lackluster experience is seen simply as bad development and most will not stay. 

Its just how people work you won't change that.

By all means, have options.  Find a medium ground, make that the default and make the current easy mode, and an additional harder mode if you like, as an option.  This presents your product to the widest possible audience, in the best possible way, while still not fundamentally changing your game or eliminating your current choices.

The impression is that the easy crowd are the norm and the mid to high are the fringe.  That only appears true inside this games small, shrinking bubble.  A look at the wider MMO population will show you the opposite.  If you truly want this game to grow and last, increase it's appeal.

The crowd that wants this kind of easy is the crowd you have.  It is declining, that will not change, 10 years is enough time to call that experiment complete and it's results final.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

Its an issue because you can't present a product this way.  People by and large want to play a game as is and expect the developers to provide a reasonable amount of challenge and engagement by default.  A lackluster experience is seen simply as bad development and most will not stay. 

Its just how people work you won't change that.

By all means, have options.  Find a medium ground, make that the default and make the current easy mode, and an additional harder mode if you like, as an option.  This presents your product to the widest possible audience, in the best possible way, while still not fundamentally changing your game or eliminating your current choices.

The impression is that the easy crowd are the norm and the mid to high are the fringe.  That only appears true inside this games small, shrinking bubble.  A look at the wider MMO population will show you the opposite.  If you truly want this game to grow and last, increase it's appeal.

The crowd that wants this kind of easy is the crowd you have.  It is declining, that will not change, 10 years is enough time to call that experiment complete and it's results final.

I have absolutely no issue with it being optional. If you're cool with it being optional as well, I'm not really sure where we're disagreeing than. I agree story is ridiculously easy.

I guess the difference is is that that doesn't really bother me. I don't play story (in this or any other mmo I've played, STO, DDO, LOTRO) for challenge. None of them have hard story content.  I play the story to level up and enjoy the story, knowng that the challenge is in another part of the game and that's where I'll go for that.  In this game, Raiding and PVP is where you go for a challenge and I personally don't have any issue with the separation.

As far as "the crowd I have". Firstly, I don't have a crowd. I don't even do guilds anymore. The two raid groups I was in both made exceptions for me, because they had a standing rule that only members of the guild could join the raid group and that wasn't something I was interested in doing anymore. I just have people I play with it.

What the crowd is, lacking a crystal ball, working with what I see in the game and what I see on the forums, it seems to me that the "casual" crowd is definitely in the majority.

The decline of the game that we have seen in past years isn't about difficulty or appeal, it's about bad choices in development and not enough resources to give the game the improvements, additions and expansions it needs to thrive.

It's appeal is self evident. It's Star Wars. (Well, Star Wars-Esque at any rate.)

[Ardrossan]

5 hours ago, Spikanor said:

that means you can only buy then when there is a double exp event running.

so that means you can buy one 3 or 4 time's a year since the double exp events are only comming 4 time's a year or so.

and now to the part of doesn't fully reduce exp gain means its also not much and that you still level up to fast.

lol yes you buy it whenever a 2xp event is on and it reduces xp by 50%.  That is a significant xp reduction; the effect is exactly as dramatic on your xp gain as 2xp is.

IDC whatever other petty objections you have, I engaged solely for the benefit of others to correct your blatant misinformation about the WAM, I'm done now. 

[eabevella]

New people play this game because they want Star Wars Story. Almost all the new player you see who post comments says how interesting the Star Wars Experience is. Streamers have great fun with the dialogue options.

If they want "challenge", they'll just play Jedi Survivor, turn on Grand Master Difficulty, and fight frogs.

It's just not what this game is about, never.

If you want a difficult option? Cool. But let's face it, way more people want the story related stuffs easy than difficult.

[Gamer_Auto]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, Leland_SmokeZz said:

This has gone too far. You are genuinely hurting your game. No one wants it to be this easy. Something has to be done and it is within the development team's ability to change. Please. People love to return to swtor and play these stories on occasion, making this content more fun and challenging would like reward the dev's with a more interested and committed fanbase who are more likely to continue playing. It is SO easy rn that even the most casual of players could not possibly struggle at any point, ever. You can auto attack everything to death. You can go to sleep facing away from an enemy and it will literally attack you all night long while your companion heals you. This is unacceptably lazy. Even veteran flashpoint difficulty has you not losing any health due to companion heals.

Yes. I could limit myself artificially to have more fun, which uh, ruins the fun. Players should not have to limit themselves to give even a semblance of challenge. Rewards do not feel earned, power does not feel like power. Weakness is impossible. There is 0 argument to be made that it should remain this way. Consider a large update revamping combat difficulty in the game, or you will forever be relegated to being a boring leveling experience. To be fair, the stories are great, which is where people get their fun, but the combat in between these cut scenes could be so much more. Swtor plays well, it is genuinely fun, SHOW that to the player during their leveling experience and maybe they will stick around longer than 30 levels.

SWTOR was always meant for the more casual side of gaming. That was the goal even back in 1.0. The challenge comes from certain Events and most Operations. The main story is intended to be easy specificall to keep the casual crowd hooked. BioWare isn't gonna drop half a million on rebalancing combat again just because you want it. If you want to make the game harder, you're going to have to do it yourself, and here are some things you can do:

• Swap 1.0 story companions to their original disciplines, and swap 2.0 and later companions to disciplines other than Heal. I've found that puts some decent challenge into the game, if you're playing a class that attracts a lot of NPC attention by nature of how many Deeps you're putting out.
• Use only quest reward gear. Don't dip into the adaptive gear or even color crystals, and the game will be that much harder.
• Don't activate any of the exp boost legacy perks, or the exp boost items.
• Don't log off in Rest Zones. That way, you rarely get Rest Exp (outside of story moments in your ship or on the fleet). Coruscant's Senate Plaza and Dromund Kaas' Kaas City are prime locations for this.
• Use sub-optimal/meme class builds. Who knows? You might find something you like.
• Don't use Tacticals or Legendary Implants. Those will just make the game easier.
• Only play Purple Missions, and don't play any Bonuses. That'll slow your Exp gain even further.
• Don't join a Guild. If Guilds provide Exp boosts, don't join one. That way, it'll make your Exp progression that much slower.
• When Double Exp Event pops up, take a break from SWTOR and play something else for the meantime.

Could the game's Exp gain be rebalanced to account for all the Exp boosts? Maybe. Could the game's combat be rebalanced to make the difficulty curve a bit sharper? Maybe. Would the game be better off like that? No way to tell, as we don't live in that timeline. Are BioWare gonna do it? Probably not, considering that the entire point is for SWTOR to be more casual than all it's competitors.

If you want a game that'll knock your teeth in without metagaming,

Spoiler

go play Warframe. I promise, it's a lot harder than SWTOR; especially once you hit mid-game.

 

[Ardrossan]

1 hour ago, Diamaht said:

You have companions remember.  And the planets and weekly content over level you.  I likely had a saber throw in there too since that is my habbit as an opener, as was stated a few posts later.  The point of the comment was that I landed on the guy and he died right away, literally that fast, and Im sure Kira helped.  Story mobs fall like trash mobs on the world map, these are simply facts.

You are being hyper literal, with a straw man experiment, in an attempt to gas light the issue away.  You gate keepers are going to be the slow death of this game and you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

 

Edit:  Another edit for tactfulness.  Going to get myself in trouble lol.

Italicized words are being used wrong / incorrectly in this post. Your opinions are not facts. Testing your claims about the game's difficulty is not being hyper literal, nor is it a strawman, and these are in fact mutually exclusive conditions. Warrior disagreeing with you is not gaslighting or gatekeeping, those are real psychological terms that the internet erroneously thinks is synonymous with bullying. And if you think this post conveys tacftulness, that explains much about your posting history