Just Remove it!

[Kazjan]

 

The Dev's a completely out of SYNC with the player base. Please just remove GSF from the game. There no reason to keep this activity in the game when it hasn't seen no love from the development team since the launch of the system. When this System came out you had such a goldmine and did nothing with it. Like you could've added Space PVE Content (FP/Raid/OPS). This system is now a old book with spiderwebs and dust all over it. Do the community a favor and 86 it like you did with Rank PVP.

Don't get me wrong I love GSF and big part of the community does as well but the dev would rather continue a tired and stale storyline with Malgus. 

[Nee-Elder]

30 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

The Dev's a completely out of SYNC with the player base. Please just remove GSF from the game. There no reason to keep this activity in the game when it hasn't seen no love from the development team since the launch of the system.

Well, i don't think they should remove it , but otherwise yes i hear ya  and i've been personally begging  BIOWARE for many to please pay some attention to GSF.

But also, for whatever  reason, they barely even posted in this forum section for past 7 years much less actual  Development cycle.

It truly is baffling....and sad.

[Kazjan]

39 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Well, i don't think they should remove it , but otherwise yes i hear ya  and i've been personally begging  BIOWARE for many to please pay some attention to GSF.

But also, for whatever  reason, they barely even posted in this forum section for past 7 years much less actual  Development cycle.

It truly is baffling....and sad.

The Dev have a goldmine on their hands and they just don't do anything with it. 12 years and we still can't travel in space freely.  The devs continue to push out Stale Content and has lost all imagination. Everything they do is stuff that has been Reskin or rename nothing new.  Literally they call something New and just a reskin from core base game with new name. I wish the dev would find that inspiration again.

[farren_whyde]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:19 PM, Kazjan said:

The Dev have a goldmine on their hands and they just don't do anything with it. 12 years and we still can't travel in space freely.  The devs continue to push out Stale Content and has lost all imagination. Everything they do is stuff that has been Reskin or rename nothing new.  Literally they call something New and just a reskin from core base game with new name. I wish the dev would find that inspiration again.

Sounds like you're the one who is missing inspiration.

[Kazjan]

4 hours ago, farren_whyde said:

Sounds like you're the one who is missing inspiration.

You're 100% correct.  I must be crazy to think that *THIS* Development Team can actually create something of A++ quality in the best Universe every created in history. 

Geez, let me think for second....

Wait for it... If i was on this creative team i would... add.... hmm... let me think for a quick second..

1. Rodian
2. Weequay
3. Wookiee
4. Trandoshans 
5. Mon Calamari

Geez, some of the most popular Star Wars Species ever created by the brilliant George Lucas. But wait this team gives us...

• Cyborg - What?
• Rattataki - For real?
• Cathar - Cat people?

Come on pick any race above would been 100% better choice.  If you took a picture book and show it to a group of children would've pick better races.  

So back to your answer. You're 100% Correct I have lost all inspiration that this development team knows anything about Star Wars.  

[farren_whyde]

18 hours ago, Kazjan said:

You're 100% correct.  I must be crazy to think that *THIS* Development Team can actually create something of A++ quality in the best Universe every created in history. 

Geez, let me think for second....

Wait for it... If i was on this creative team i would... add.... hmm... let me think for a quick second..

1. Rodian
2. Weequay
3. Wookiee
4. Trandoshans 
5. Mon Calamari

Geez, some of the most popular Star Wars Species ever created by the brilliant George Lucas. But wait this team gives us...

• Cyborg - What?
• Rattataki - For real?
• Cathar - Cat people?

Come on pick any race above would been 100% better choice.  If you took a picture book and show it to a group of children would've pick better races.  

So back to your answer. You're 100% Correct I have lost all inspiration that this development team knows anything about Star Wars.  

Now you've gone off-topic on your own post about GSF.

I'm sure the Dev team will moved by your constructive words. Sure you could do a much better job, right?

You're just frustrated because your wish-list isn't happening, and your sarcastic reply doesn't do you any credit at all. So, sulk away.

[Kazjan]

17 hours ago, farren_whyde said:

Now you've gone off-topic on your own post about GSF.

I'm sure the Dev team will moved by your constructive words. Sure you could do a much better job, right?

You're just frustrated because your wish-list isn't happening, and your sarcastic reply doesn't do you any credit at all. So, sulk away.

Ha. the whole post was suppose be sarcastic as you tried to come an put down someone and got the tables turn on you.  It's clearly you don't understand the meaning behind the word "IF".  BTW Since it was lost on you clearly by your first post. Which your post makes no sense " What does my inspiration have to do with GSF" I'm advocating for them to just remove the mode. If you have no development plan for mode there is no reason to keep it in the game. That would be the best thing for the system and Yes it will make some people mad but reality there hasn't been any update or change to the actual game mode since KOTET.  

17 hours ago, farren_whyde said:

I'm sure the Dev team will moved by your constructive words. Sure you could do a much better job, right?

Actually to be honest "YES" I could.  You write a post acting like you know who I am and who I work for? You clearly have no idea of my background and skills.

1. Stop blindly trying to insult someone when you clearly terrible at doing it make you look very weak. 

2. R&D must be done before you add any type of content in any game. Critical step and it clearly wasn't done correctly during some of the decision making for this particular IP.

Again, I agree with you 100% we got off topic again. I still think GSF should just be removed and maybe they can cycle back to it in future when they have time to put attention into the mode itself. 

[farren_whyde]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:58 PM, Kazjan said:

Ha. the whole post was suppose be sarcastic as you tried to come an put down someone and got the tables turn on you.  It's clearly you don't understand the meaning behind the word "IF".  BTW Since it was lost on you clearly by your first post. Which your post makes no sense " What does my inspiration have to do with GSF" I'm advocating for them to just remove the mode. If you have no development plan for mode there is no reason to keep it in the game. That would be the best thing for the system and Yes it will make some people mad but reality there hasn't been any update or change to the actual game mode since KOTET.  

Actually to be honest "YES" I could.  You write a post acting like you know who I am and who I work for? You clearly have no idea of my background and skills.

1. Stop blindly trying to insult someone when you clearly terrible at doing it make you look very weak. 

2. R&D must be done before you add any type of content in any game. Critical step and it clearly wasn't done correctly during some of the decision making for this particular IP.

Again, I agree with you 100% we got off topic again. I still think GSF should just be removed and maybe they can cycle back to it in future when they have time to put attention into the mode itself. 

WE didn't get off-topic. You did.

Your first post wasn't sarcastic. It was a whine. And turning tables? Eh? We're not in competition, are we? What are you on about? If you can't articulate yourself very well and can't master sarcasm, don't double-down and try to re-frame it as trying to catch someone out and call others 'weak'. I just said you're probably lacking inspiration - that's not a put-down. It's a response to your post. It's just baffling and laughable.

There's no reason to remove GSF. It's fine as it is, and has a very dedicated group of people who enjoy it. If it gets development, great. But at the moment it doesn't need much doing -  it plays fine.

I wasn't writing a post assuming anything about you; it was a post in response your own sarcastic reply. What do you expect? I haven't insulted anyone. The only person here who's insulted anyone is you insulting the Dev team in your original post. And sarcasm isn't the best way in the first instance to address something you clearly feel strongly about. If you're still lacking inspiration, take a break from the game and come back to it later. All you're doing is projecting and venting, really. And you're the aggressor here, mate.

 

[Kazjan]

On 5/22/2023 at 2:33 PM, farren_whyde said:

WE didn't get off-topic. You did.

Your first post wasn't sarcastic. It was a whine. And turning tables? Eh? We're not in competition, are we? What are you on about? If you can't articulate yourself very well and can't master sarcasm, don't double-down and try to re-frame it as trying to catch someone out and call others 'weak'. I just said you're probably lacking inspiration - that's not a put-down. It's a response to your post. It's just baffling and laughable.

There's no reason to remove GSF. It's fine as it is, and has a very dedicated group of people who enjoy it. If it gets development, great. But at the moment it doesn't need much doing -  it plays fine.

I wasn't writing a post assuming anything about you; it was a post in response your own sarcastic reply. What do you expect? I haven't insulted anyone. The only person here who's insulted anyone is you insulting the Dev team in your original post. And sarcasm isn't the best way in the first instance to address something you clearly feel strongly about. If you're still lacking inspiration, take a break from the game and come back to it later. All you're doing is projecting and venting, really. And you're the aggressor here, mate.

 

 The reason why I say remove it from the game is because of these reasons:

GSF System:

1. Lack any Planning & Goals - Whether an update is big or small, each one is a form of communication with players, demonstrating that you are listening to player feedback and you care about improving the player experience. Players has been submitting feedback for years on what they would like to see change/updated or added to GSF. They feedback has been ignored.  

2.  Bug Fixes & Patches: Self explanatory don't really need to explain this point.

3. Major Content Updates - We have had several Content updates over the past years. When was the last one for GSF?

I'll stop here I could go on more but I think you get my point. You can't keep something in game just because a small % of the player base is playing it. The whole purpose of adding anything to the game is for the community as whole to enjoy it. The reason people don't play GSF is because they do not enjoy it. That goes for any system such as Ground PVP/PVE. People don't Que for PVP is because the currently don't enjoy it. Gaming is suppose to be enjoyable. 

On 5/22/2023 at 2:33 PM, farren_whyde said:

If it gets development, great. But at the moment it doesn't need much doing -  it plays fine.

The reason I point this line out is the because this is what really wrong with this game. The community has become so complacent with C+ Quality and content is the reason why we get these kind of updates and systems.  ~ I want to go back to the days where you would go onto the forums and seeing everyone praising the team for such excellent quality~ Now we get cinematic with error and glitches. How does so many errors get to the live servers?  

I'll give example: Cartel Market items: DT-11 Blaster w/Holster cost: $18.00. You made people pay for item where the holster disappear after combat or cutscene 90% of the time. This is unacceptable. This is just example they are much more major problem I just want to use something where a consumer has to use Money for a bug item.

You can't leave content in game that broken just because a group of people like it as is. 

On 5/22/2023 at 2:33 PM, farren_whyde said:

If you're still lacking inspiration, take a break from the game and come back to it later. All you're doing is projecting and venting, really. And you're the aggressor here, mate.

Mate, I have the right to vent and project my frustrations because I'm a playing customer, I've sub to this game for the past 12 years.  Actually, EVERYONE who downloaded this game doesn't matter if you're SUB or F2P customer has the right to tell them they're "Messing Up" Just because you like the state of the game doesn't mean everyone has to.  

 

[Toraak]

5 hours ago, Kazjan said:

 The reason why I say remove it from the game is because of these reasons:

GSF System:

1. Lack any Planning & Goals - Whether an update is big or small, each one is a form of communication with players, demonstrating that you are listening to player feedback and you care about improving the player experience. Players has been submitting feedback for years on what they would like to see change/updated or added to GSF. They feedback has been ignored.  

2.  Bug Fixes & Patches: Self explanatory don't really need to explain this point.

3. Major Content Updates - We have had several Content updates over the past years. When was the last one for GSF?

I'll stop here I could go on more but I think you get my point. You can't keep something in game just because a small % of the player base is playing it. The whole purpose of adding anything to the game is for the community as whole to enjoy it. The reason people don't play GSF is because they do not enjoy it. That goes for any system such as Ground PVP/PVE. People don't Que for PVP is because the currently don't enjoy it. Gaming is suppose to be enjoyable. 

The reason I point this line out is the because this is what really wrong with this game. The community has become so complacent with C+ Quality and content is the reason why we get these kind of updates and systems.  ~ I want to go back to the days where you would go onto the forums and seeing everyone praising the team for such excellent quality~ Now we get cinematic with error and glitches. How does so many errors get to the live servers?  

I'll give example: Cartel Market items: DT-11 Blaster w/Holster cost: $18.00. You made people pay for item where the holster disappear after combat or cutscene 90% of the time. This is unacceptable. This is just example they are much more major problem I just want to use something where a consumer has to use Money for a bug item.

You can't leave content in game that broken just because a group of people like it as is. 

Mate, I have the right to vent and project my frustrations because I'm a playing customer, I've sub to this game for the past 12 years.  Actually, EVERYONE who downloaded this game doesn't matter if you're SUB or F2P customer has the right to tell them they're "Messing Up" Just because you like the state of the game doesn't mean everyone has to.  

 

 

1) GSF is in a great spot compared to other parts of the game. It's far more balanced then ground PvP for one thing.

2) your example of that cartel market item is irrelevant. All MMO have bugs in them, and some of them do stay there for years. Based on your opinion this entire game should be deleted.

 

3) Yes many of us would want more GSF updates, however lets be blunt, is it cost effective for them? 

 

4) You do realize you don't need to pay anything to play GSF unlimited right? Ask yourself this question. How many people that routinely play GSF are actually subscribing to the game? BW would know this answer better then any of us. If the answer is not many, then BW has most likely decided to put funds into area's that Subscribers actually play.

 

None of your reasons are worthy of having GSF removed. In fact NO MMO should ever remove any content.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Toraak

[Firelieutenant]

No I like gsf. It does need some love though

[Nee-Elder]

6 hours ago, Kazjan said:

 I'll give example: Cartel Market items: DT-11 Blaster w/Holster cost: $18.00. You made people pay for item where the holster disappear after combat or cutscene 90% of the time. This is unacceptable.

Please explain how BioWare "made" you or anyone pay for digital trash?

I'm no fan of that sneaky Cartel Market system of re-skins TRAP , but i also think players are responsible for their own purchases & self-discipline.

EA introduced a scam ( "free" to play , but go buy stuff from Cartel Market , which = wayyyy more than 15 dollar subscription )  but imho  if the playerbase hadn't fallen for it, repeatedly, then maybe EA would've been forced to invest more real significant game development & Content more often.  ( including GSF )

As to your original point: It's utterly ridiculous to propose removing GSF.   This game needs more *STAR* parts of  the 'Star Wars' .  Not less.

Maybe you're just trolling though?

Edited May 26, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[Kazjan]

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

1) GSF is in a great spot compared to other parts of the game. It's far more balanced then ground PvP for one thing.

 

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

3) Yes many of us would want more GSF updates, however lets be blunt, is it cost effective for them? 

You're 100% correct it not as bad as other parts of the game. However, it does have bugs & issues that need to be patched. I'll give example on CTP map there are a very long delay for the system to recognize that you're actually in range before it begins ticking. Also, There still a bugs with achievements not being rewarded.  So yes it does need patches and regular update to stay relevant.  

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

2) your example of that cartel market item is irrelevant. All MMO have bugs in them, and some of them do stay there for years. Based on your opinion this entire game should be deleted.

Of course all MMO's have bugs, I wouldn't disagree with you.  However, What happen when bugs or issue don't get fix? it create a much bigger issue.  Great example of this issue is the SCORECARD. This has been a issue for years. Did you ever wonder why PVP Scorecard stay broken as well? because both ASSETS correlate with one another. 

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

4) You do realize you don't need to pay anything to play GSF unlimited right? Ask yourself this question. How many people that routinely play GSF are actually subscribing to the game? BW would know this answer better then any of us. If the answer is not many, then BW has most likely decided to put funds into area's that Subscribers actually play.

Not entirely sure what you're asking or posting but I never said anything about Sub playing GSF. I said SUB and F2P have to right to voice their concerns.  Subscribers are the reason you have GSF. Please tell you do remember the Space on Rails system? 

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

None of your reasons are worthy of having GSF removed. In fact NO MMO should ever remove any content.

 

15 hours ago, Toraak said:

4) You do realize you don't need to pay anything to play GSF unlimited right? Ask yourself this question. How many people that routinely play GSF are actually subscribing to the game? BW would know this answer better then any of us. If the answer is not many, then BW has most likely decided to put funds into area's that Subscribers actually play.

Base on your words alone is the reason why the game mode should be removed. Off your own word, We don't know how many people are actually playing the mode and you don't have to pay anything for it. Correct? Then why, has there not been any map or ships added to a game mode in the past 5+ years?

 

Leave this to everyone who actually posting in this thread. Please answer this for me.

Why hasn't there been any content (maps, battle modes, ships) added to GSF?

This is how you know it's bad, is when they're not even adding ships to the cartel market for us to "BUY" and you know they love their Cartel Market Shop. 

Instead of saying "It's in a good place!" actually explain what in a good place.

[Kazjan]

15 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

21 hours ago, Kazjan said:

 I'll give example: Cartel Market items: DT-11 Blaster w/Holster cost: $18.00. You made people pay for item where the holster disappear after combat or cutscene 90% of the time. This is unacceptable.

Please explain how BioWare "made" you or anyone pay for digital trash?

I had to respond to you separately,  Clearly you don't understand the meaning of the word "Example" 

Example: be illustrated or exemplified.

What I provided above was illustrated example of bug in the game that hasn't been fix yet.  Secondly, you shouldn't call someone else work trash because that rude and the person who designed it put a lot of work on it and they deserved to have their work being displayed properly.  

15 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

EA introduced a scam ( "free" to play , but go buy stuff from Cartel Market , which = wayyyy more than 15 dollar subscription )  but imho  if the playerbase hadn't fallen for it, repeatedly, then maybe EA would've been forced to invest more real significant game development & Content more often.  ( including GSF )

What are you talking about in Feb 2012 the game had 1.7 million Sub and by July 2012  the game fell below 1 million sub. This was mostly because the removal of Open World PVP. The F2P Model and Cartel Market saved the game.  I loved Open world PVP but that was so unstable they had no choice but to remove it. 

15 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

As to your original point: It's utterly ridiculous to propose removing GSF.   This game needs more *STAR* parts of  the 'Star Wars' .  Not less.

What? Star Wars Galaxies had a better Space system than this game. At least in SWG you could fly your Ship and take down Destroyers or even board them and steal data from the computer while fighting though legions of enemy.  Don't act like GSF put the "STAR" in Star Wars give me a break.  

[Nee-Elder]

35 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

, you shouldn't call someone else work trash because that rude and the person who designed it put a lot of work on it  

Re-skinning the same CM item models over & over again doesn't take "work".   It's just copy/paste/color, at best.

Most of the CM re-skins are digital trash.  Not all, but most.

37 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

and they deserved to have their work being displayed properly. 

No one was questioning that lol ( duh ) .

38 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

 The F2P Model and Cartel Market saved the game.

Saved into what though?  A pattern of transient short-term players, never building toward anything substantial  (other than further compounding game inflation ) , combined with dwindling original $ubscribers with each passing year.

Fact is, BioWare overestimated the holding effect of  *story* ( aka the "4th pillar" ) in a MMO , whilst underestimating the importance of PLAYER imaginations & community interdependence , and then couldn't keep up with subsequent content demands ironically spawned by their own original ( and noble ) mandate toward said "4th pillar" .

In other words: They went too much theme-park and not enough  sandbox.   There should've been a better balance between both, so that PLAYERS could sustain their own interests without having to rely upon ( or resent against ) big brother BioWare to entertain them repeatedly.

50 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

Star Wars Galaxies had a better Space system than this game.

When did i ever say  GSF was better than JTL ?  ( hint: i never did )

51 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

 At least in SWG you could fly your Ship and take down Destroyers or even board them and steal data from the computer while fighting though legions of enemy. 

Yes i know, since i started in SWG Pre-cu on day 1 of JTL ...and then, eventually, helped revitalize that game as QA & Coder ( minor bug fixing & such ) .

So yeah, i certainly don't need you to tell me about SWG.

54 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

 Don't act like GSF put the "STAR" in Star Wars give me a break.  

uhh, i never said GSF has put it .  I'm saying , strictly for SWTOR , GSF is the only thing slightly hinting at putting it.  ( not counting those other "on rails" ship space missions )

Therefore, i see no logical reason to completely remove GSF  alltogether. ( your ridiculous OP )

Instead, as noted in my forum sig below, i have personally been begging/pleading with BioWare for ohhhh about 10 years now to expand & develop GSF further, so that it can truly bring more *Star* into STAR WARS: The Old Republic .   Obviously not as much, nor as dynamic, as SWG JTL was ... But still could be better than current.

Unfortunately, EA won't let them, due to fears it could conflict with, or detract from,  'SW:Squadrons'  and 'SW:Battlefront' .

[Kazjan]

38 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Re-skinning the same CM item models over & over again doesn't take "work".   It's just copy/paste/color, at best.

Most of the CM re-skins are digital trash.  Not all, but most.

No one was questioning that lol ( duh ) .

Saved into what though?  A pattern of transient short-term players, never building toward anything substantial  (other than further compounding game inflation ) , combined with dwindling original $ubscribers with each passing year.

Fact is, BioWare overestimated the holding effect of  *story* ( aka the "4th pillar" ) in a MMO , whilst underestimating the importance of PLAYER imaginations & community interdependence , and then couldn't keep up with subsequent content demands ironically spawned by their own original ( and noble ) mandate toward said "4th pillar" .

In other words: They went too much theme-park and not enough  sandbox.   There should've been a better balance between both, so that PLAYERS could sustain their own interests without having to rely upon ( or resent against ) big brother BioWare to entertain them repeatedly.

When did i ever say  GSF was better than JTL ?  ( hint: i never did )

Yes i know, since i started in SWG Pre-cu on day 1 of JTL ...and then, eventually, helped revitalize that game as QA & Coder ( minor bug fixing & such ) .

So yeah, i certainly don't need you to tell me about SWG.

uhh, i never said GSF has put it .  I'm saying , strictly for SWTOR , GSF is the only thing slightly hinting at putting it.  ( not counting those other "on rails" ship space missions )

Therefore, i see no logical reason to completely remove GSF  alltogether. ( your ridiculous OP )

Instead, as noted in my forum sig below, i have personally been begging/pleading with BioWare for ohhhh about 10 years now to expand & develop GSF further, so that it can truly bring more *Star* into STAR WARS: The Old Republic .   Obviously not as much, nor as dynamic, as SWG JTL was ... But still could be better than current.

Unfortunately, EA won't let them, due to fears it could conflict with, or detract from,  'SW:Squadrons'  and 'SW:Battlefront' .

@Nee-Elder Doesn't this feel similar? Since you're a Pre-CU player like myself. 

Pre-CU JTL= ROTHC (Rise of the Hutt Cartel) , GSF, 

CU Rage of Wookies= Shadows of Revan, KOTFE

NGE = KOTET , Onslaught, Legacy of the Sith, Combat Styles

I mean history really repeats itself. Look at the Dev Post. Not one post in many threads very similar to when asking feedback on NGE and the whole player base was like "We hate it" and they release the crap anyways. 

I'm just asking if you also see the similarities?

 

[Nee-Elder]

6 hours ago, Kazjan said:

Not one post in many threads very similar to when asking feedback on NGE and the whole player base was like "We hate it" and they release the crap anyways.

Don't get me started on that  LITERAL  trash  'NGE' system ( not to mention blatant betrayal by a certain lying snake at LucasArts ) .

The words i would use here might get me *banned* .

BioWare/SWTOR has it's flaws, yes, but nothing compares to that ^ .

[Ramalina]

On 5/26/2023 at 5:00 AM, Kazjan said:

3. Major Content Updates - We have had several Content updates over the past years. When was the last one for GSF?

Late 2017 I think was when 5.5 was released.

 

On 5/27/2023 at 2:41 AM, Kazjan said:

Why hasn't there been any content (maps, battle modes, ships) added to GSF?

Leaving aside both the Denon and Iokath maps because they were a long time ago,

   Ships in terms of ship class/build.    Balance.

    GSF works on a slightly sub-optimal Rock-Paper-Scissors balance scheme between ship types, and if you suddenly decide to turn it into Rock-Paper-Scissors-Iguana then you're likely to introduce very broken imbalance between ship classes.   Add that it seems quite likely they retain few to no people who are still really familiar with the GSF code (and who knows how well if at all it's documented), and major changes to gameplay and ship balance system are a can of worms that they may legitimately be better off not messing with.   There's still a laundry list of things they probably could improve re. balance, but they did get to most of the critically important major flaws in 5.5.   So while not as well balanced as actual Rock-Paper-Scissors, chess, or go, GSF does manage to be freakishly well balanced for an MMORPG mini-game.

 

   Ships in terms of cosmetic skins.    Probably a combination of:

        Needing someone who knows how to make the alternate mesh, textures, and LoDs hook into and work with the GSF UI, needing someone who can modify the GSF Hanagar UI to accommodate more ship skin selection slots, and abysmally poor sales of the existing alternate ship models.   Seriously, if the market for the service is, "Barro and some guy from France whose name I can't remember at the moment," then it's probably not worth any time or effort on the developers' part.   Yes, maybe if it were a model other than the K-52 aka "Jakarro's garbage scow" more would sell, but based on success so far BW just isn't good at coming up with adequately appealing ship models to drive alternate model sales for GSF.  

 

Maps and battle modes.    Return on investment.

  These are fairly labor, skilled labor, intensive projects.   Aside from the basic engine limitations that probably limit you to something like either a 100 x 100 x 100 or 200 x 200 x200 km cube as a playing space (GSF fake scale, map size limits same as for ground game, they just add in a few extra zeros to the display fields and rescale objects, ie your 10 meter long ship is probably really 1 m or 0.1m long as far as the game engine is concerned), you need people who do good enough map work that you don't have weird one-way LoS bugs with terrain, missing or holey collision boxes allowing invincible drones/mines, and you need a game design person who understands the ship types and flow of GSF play well enough to actually design a mode/map structure that results in engaging entertaining play.    Having met those requirements you then need to figure  out how working on GSF is a better use of that talent in terms of revenue than working on anything else in SWTOR.   

 

On 5/27/2023 at 2:41 AM, Kazjan said:

This is how you know it's bad, is when they're not even adding ships to the cartel market for us to "BUY" and you know they love their Cartel Market Shop.

I'm not sure what the internal Bioware logic (if there is any), on this is, but in terms of listening to well reasoned player feedback on GSF game mechanics Bioware has been excellent, at least if the changes are within the scope of what they think they can do, but when it comes to player feedback on, "things  you could do to get me to spend CC (ie real world money) on GSF and increase the revenue from GSF," Bioware has been absolutely 100% deaf to feedback.   No idea why.   Republic and Sith Empire starfighter commands are registered non-profit organizations in lore maybe?   We'll probably never know.

 

On 5/27/2023 at 2:41 AM, Kazjan said:

Instead of saying "It's in a good place!" actually explain what in a good place

Ship class balance is in a fairly good place.  Bombers are a little bit weak, the T2 gunship is a bit weak, but every other ship has one or more competitive builds and even the slightly lagging bombers and T2 are perfectly usable if not going against entire teams of expert opposition.

 

There is no perpetual gear treadmill.  Once a character has a ship fully upgraded that ship is fully upgraded.   Can you competitively play GSF at the highest levels with a ship that you last bought a new component upgrade for during the 3.0 expansion?  Yes.  Try PvP or NiM Ops with gear that's 4 expacs out of date and let me know how that goes for you.

 

Gearing is very easy relative to other game play options.   If you're subscribed, and know how the gearing system works, gearing for GSF is quite a bit faster on average than most other STWOR modes of play.   As a bonus, if you understand the game mechanics well, or if you just read the gearing guides of someone who does, you don't need to be anywhere near fully upgraded in GSF to unlock most of the performance granted through gearing.   You can even gear alts with fleet commendations with requisition grants purchased from the vendor on fleet.   So technically you can gear your GSF ships by flying the on rails space missions if you really want to.

 

The largest know bug is the tier 4 & 5 upgrade deselect bug, which as bugs in SWTOR go is fairly minor.  I'm pretty sure that someone at some point figured out what the conditions leading to that bug are, but I don't remember the details.   Something to do with logging out of the game, or quitting without logging out, or something like that I think.  So technically if you can find the post where whoever it was figured it out it should be a mostly avoidable bug.   At least that's the largest longstanding bug.  

When they broke the scoreboard for WZs in 7.x related "upgrades" they also managed to break the GSF scoreboard display, since they share a code base.   Apparently there's an issue in that whoever knows enough to break but not enough to fix the WZ scoreboard is pretty sure that they won't figure out how fix things any time soon because GSF's proposed addition to the optional objectives for the next PvP Season was cancelled based on player feedback of, "You know you need to fix the medals display on the scoreboard before you add medals based Seasons objectives, right?"   Interestingly, the actual code tracking medals still works and you still make progress toward achievements for medals, and mouseover will tell you how many total medals you got, but the tooltip for medal name and objective is broken as is the display in the scoreboard column.  The data is still being generated, it's just not displaying properly anymore.  Unfortunately this may become a long standing bug, but that's really more a "Shambolic disaster of 7.0" and lack of technically qualified personnel issue than a GSF thing per se.  At present there's nothing really dependent on medals, and you can look them all up in the GSF legacy achievements tab, so it's not exactly a critical bug.

 

On 5/27/2023 at 3:11 AM, Kazjan said:

What are you talking about in Feb 2012 the game had 1.7 million Sub and by July 2012  the game fell below 1 million sub. This was mostly because the removal of Open World PVP. The F2P Model and Cartel Market saved the game.  I loved Open world PVP but that was so unstable they had no choice but to remove it. 

 Riiiiight.   I'm sure that an MMORPG that was basically billed as, "WoW, but with lightsabers," didn't run into any problems at all because it was marketed as a direct competitor to an endgame instanced PvE oriented MMORPG, but they released it without having actually bothered to, you know, have a significant amount of endgame content of any sort, and followed that up with a glacially slow endgame content release schedule.   Oh and given Bioware's extensive track record with MMO PvP based titles failure on that front is surely what caused people to ditch so quickly once they discovered that the endgame was, "watch particle effect slideshows at 3 FPS on Illum."    /sarcasm.    Sure, if BW had managed to pull off really engaging world PvP it might have slowed the slide a bit, but given the studio history and the game's early marketing I very much doubt wonky world PvP was the culprit as much as not having bothered to have endgame content, or even a coherent plan for endgame content, in a heavily endgame focused genre.   If SWTOR had launched with 6.0's level of endgame content, or even with 3.0's level of endgame content, it probably would have done a lot better on player retention for the first year or two at least.   Rate has always been an issue for SWTOR though.   Sure no developer can keep up with player content consumption rates (pending figuring out how to use generative AI to do most of the heavy lifting), but the SWTOR team can't even come close to keeping up with other in-genre competitors, and that's what probably really ultimately did them in relative to other MMOs.

 

On 5/27/2023 at 2:41 AM, Kazjan said:

You're 100% correct it not as bad as other parts of the game. However, it does have bugs & issues that need to be patched. I'll give example on CTP map there are a very long delay for the system to recognize that you're actually in range before it begins ticking. Also, There still a bugs with achievements not being rewarded.  So yes it does need patches and regular update to stay relevant. 

I think the polling for satellite proximity is 1/s or sub 1/s.  You have to be actually in proximity though and many people underestimate how close they need to be, there needs to not be any opposing ship in range, and with latency between server and client and perhaps some elements of just SWTOR being SWTOR the UI on the client on your machine can lag up to a couple of seconds in terms of displaying capture progress.  You can see this sometimes as jerky rather than smooth fill progress of green bars on the fins.   As far as the server goes though, as soon as it gets the message that your ship is within range the count starts, whether your client is displaying it in a timely matter or not.

 

What achievement granting bugs?  

Most of my regularly played legacies are at 100% for GSF so I don't normally see GSF related achievement progress anymore, but I think I may have some on German and French servers that I could hop on and test for bug reports if there are specific GSF achievements you think aren't granting properly.

 

[easyandrew]

I agree with removing GSF ,,If not then remove all CQ rewards from it,,I`m at 100% in it and rarely play now due to the amount of throwers/suiciders let alone the few who even openly laugh at us in the chat....In the end it is people like that who win all the time in GSF not us who actually want to play,,everyone I got to play GSF over the years all the time I spent in training them and showing them how to be the best all left due to suiciders ruining winnable matches but in the end die 10-12 times giving it away..I`m out of advil when it comes to this part of the game.

A

[Toraak]

Just because we have the same problem as ground PvP doesn't mean it should be removed. It means BW needs to take a harder stance on those people ruining the game for others. Ban them, and be done with it.

 

Truthfully the devs just need to remove this thread from the forums. Trying to get any part of the game removed should never be taken seriously. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Toraak

[Sorrai]

GSF happens to be the only area in the game where I get true enjoyment. It's my number one favorite activity.  It's beyond inconsiderate for anybody to come to the forums asking for something to be completely excised from the game just because it's something they don't like or regard as irrelevant.  I queue for GSF every time I log on and there is a dedicated, passionate fan base out there who all recognize GSF for the awesome and well-crafted mini-game that it is.

I'm not a fan of ground PVP, crafting or PVE grinding but I am aware there are plenty of players who are. I have enough common sense to acknowledge that there is plenty of room in this MMO for people to enjoy a variety of activities.  I suggest OP kindly refrain from actively expressing disdain towards GSF.  It's incredibly fun and requires a lot of skill to play with just the right amount of complexity for those willing to take the time to learn.  If you're ever interested in some one-on-one help feel free to contact me.  I play on Satele Shan and would be happy to share with you what I know.  

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sorrai

[sharpenedstick]

GSF offers a fundamentally different experience from anything else in SWTOR. And removing content in a game that desperately needs it is silly, even if the content is neglected and unsupported.

What they need to do is look at what can be done to support these systems in the short term (new rewards, for Space Missions a new gear tier) and in the longer term (remove premades from queue, new GSF gear, new maps, etc).

Putting new rewards on the GSF vendor should be trivial, and they haven't bothered for almost seven years now.