7.3 Credit Economy Initiative: Updates and the GTN

[xordevoreaux]

3 minutes ago, Rocketmanballs said:

What's to stop players for incresing prices to cover the costs of taxes?

They'll hit the GTN cap.

[Balameb]

21 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

That said, i am curious now ( relating to your admittedly fair point )  if my 3 original founding members of our 2 guilds from wayyyy back created in 2011  are now affected/restricted by this new 7.3 change.....  If only they were still  here $ubscribed to test it.

I think the problems comes only for new guilds. For 30 days only the GM will be able to access the bank, that is not good. We are a very small guild with rare movement of items. But medium+ guild (in terms of active unique members) do rely on officers on taking care of some things. From what i saw in other servers, new guilds trying to stablish a good fundation are usually run by 3+ friends. 

I think funding members should be excepted from this restriction, as long as cost of guild+bank is high enough so it cannot be abused by credit sellers.

 

Also, i think this new restriction will likely stop(discourage) guild sells/transfer if only the original guild leader is excluded.

[Nee-Elder]

3 minutes ago, Isabhell said:

  Now i can't even give my guildies gifts?

Sure you can, but now you just have to pay a few measily credits 'fee' .

No big whoop.

1 minute ago, xordevoreaux said:

I'm sure my guilds aren't the only ones in this game than span 12 time zones.

For 30 days, the guild leader, and only the guild leader, can stay up at all hours waiting to receive guild contributions from people all over.

I would call that onerous.

i hear you on the time-zone thing , but again i just disagree with your choice of words.

A slight inconvenience, maybe to the few legit recruits who might need some "gifts" ( whatever that means )  for 30  days.

Or,  just as players have done since the dawn of MMO's , adapt & adjust  accordingly.  re: direct Trades  and/or just accept the pay fees and encourage members to play the game more to EARN more credits themselves.

BioWare is trying to remove more credits, bit by oppressive bit,  and it's not only working pretty well so far ( along with their banning of Credit-exploiters a few weeks ago ) to bring down GTN prices overall, but i'm gonna bet they're quietly monitoring things internally with metrics & server-log prompt.

Now if only they could also reduce the silly outrageous Cartel Market prices too. ( should be permanantly all cut in half, imo )

[Isabhell]

12 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Sure you can, but now you just have to pay a few measily credits 'fee' .

No big whoop.

a few measly credits - um 20 +million just to help one of my raiders out, also lets to about ops - they gladly GIVE augs, kits, stims and adrenals to each other like candy and now they are having to pay to help each other.  how is that ok.  there is no money nothing exchanging its a gift and now they are being charged through the nose.  not everyone has the credits to support that.   this is not ok, you are taking the community out of the MMO and turning it into essentially a solo game.  There has to be a better way. 

[xordevoreaux]

17 minutes ago, Isabhell said:

a few measly credits - um 20 +million just to help one of my raiders out, also lets to about ops - they gladly GIVE augs, kits, stims and adrenals to each other like candy and now they are having to pay to help each other.  how is that ok.  there is no money nothing exchanging its a gift and now they are being charged through the nose.  not everyone has the credits to support that.   this is not ok, you are taking the community out of the MMO and turning it into essentially a solo game.  There has to be a better way. 

This should show Bioware that this conversation is now circling around one contention that Bioware cannot solve, and that's the chasm between established players/guilds with plenty of cash on hand laughing off these changes versus new players/guilds that are still very low on the income curve.

There's a very real gulf there, and the people who'll fare the worst under these and upcoming similar changes will be those newer players/guilds.

[Balameb]

46 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Now if only they could also reduce the silly outrageous Cartel Market prices too. ( should be permanantly all cut in half, imo )

I'm all in for any CM price cut. But i'm curious to what game are you comparing SWTOR CM prices?

[TheFiveOhFirst]

4 hours ago, JoeStramaglia said:

Hello folks! With 7.3 now live, I wanted to answer a couple of questions that we saw on the forums in regards to the access cooldown we’ve added to Guild Banks. 

The original Guild Leader will still have access starting at guild creation, this change only applies to new members in that guild, including the ones that help form it.

Repairs and summons should remain unaffected by this change. The guild membership in this case should be looking at your legacy to determine if you have access, so your alts should remain unaffected. In terms of giving things to new members during this period, you may still trade or mail the item or credits as necessary to the new member.

This restriction was largely added to reduce the need for taxation at the guild bank level, but there were some additional behaviors we saw during a review of guilds that this helps to discourage. We’ll continue to monitor behavior to help us determine if we need to make other changes.

We’ll be keeping an eye on this thread, so please continue to offer your feedback here. 

Our guild officers have been doing some testing... this will murder us... or rather it will make it completely impossible for us to keep doing fun things for our members.

We let members get free augments, kits, stims, etc. once a month if they ask for it. It will cost tens of millions for us to set these to ONE guild member. We have giveaways weekly... sometimes for expensive items... RUINED.

Thirty days is atrocious. Just beyond unreasonable.

F2P and Pref can't trade basically anything but garbage now. They used to have a path to grind for OEM/RPMs to trade to folks who spent money on the CM... now they can't even do that.

This is just terrible... I knew it was going to be bad... but WOW... you went forward with all of these even after prices had started coming down?

[Nee-Elder]

40 minutes ago, Isabhell said:

a few measly credits - um 20 +million just to help one of my raiders out, also lets to about ops - they gladly GIVE augs, kits, stims and adrenals to each other like candy and now they are having to pay to help each other.  how is that ok.  there is no money nothing exchanging its a gift and now they are being charged through the nose.  not everyone has the credits to support that.   this is not ok, you are taking the community out of the MMO and turning it into essentially a solo game.  There has to be a better way. 

i hear you and i do sympathize with your plight & frustrations.

However, what's wrong with simply waiting 30 days to provide those same "gifts" and help you had always done before?   And while those new recruits wait to have guild-bank access, they can learn how to play the game and how to earn credits on their own and maybe even how to Craft for themselves?

Again though: i think changing to 14-days might be better decision on BioWare's part at this point.

20 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

This should show Bioware that this conversation is now circling around one contention that Bioware cannot solve, and that's the chasm between established players/guilds with plenty of cash on hand laughing off these changes versus new players/guilds that are still very low on the income curve.

There's a very real gulf there, and the people who'll fare the worst under these and upcoming similar changes will be those newer players/guilds.

So interesting how sometimes  art ( MMO's )  imitates life, and vice versa.

But i digress....

8 minutes ago, Balameb said:

I'm all in for any CM price cut. But i'm curious to what game are you comparing SWTOR CM prices?

i'm comparing it to ESO , but mostly i'm comparing it to itself + common decency.  In other words, there's prices being high enough cuz EA ( or whomever ) has to fund the game with their silly microtransactions Free-To-PAY  business model . 

Or, there's prices being so high for redundant re-skins x infinity  that it becomes price gauging and frankly insulting to longtme $ubscribers.   Heck, why not have a promo whereby each month you maintain $ub in a row  you not only gain "free" CM coins but you also gain incremental discounts to all  CM items with each passing subscribed month?

A true reward for loyalty.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[Balameb]

32 minutes ago, Isabhell said:

a few measly credits - um 20 +million just to help one of my raiders out, also lets to about ops

So, you are being charged 20 Mill+ to help a raider? Sounds like transfering some end game augs.

Sorry, by i find that perfectly reasonable. If it is an actual regular fellow raider, then 30 days (btw, i also on the 14 days would be better train) should already be past and can transfer in guild. If less, then that is why they implemented these fees, because people avoid tax of high value sales.

I have gifted in the past full aug set to a fellow player. Guild bank would today allow me to do the same tax free, but even If i had to pay 8% of the value in credits i would di it all the same. I mean, if i can spare 14 augments, then 8% of its value should not affect my finances.

 

6 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i'm comparing it to ESO , but mostly i'm comparing it to itself + common decency.  In other words, there's prices being high enough cuz EA ( or whomever ) has to fund the game with their silly microtransactions Free-To-PAY  business model

In terms of general pricing/common decency i do agree some items are too expensive. Particularly weapons. Armor sets, i find them reasonable (i would remove the unlock cost tho). Dyes, are also too expensive, specially because they are consumed, not unlocked.

Now, comparing armor sets or mounts with ESO. I have to say, ESO seems insanely more expensive. Because of few direct sales, and the tiny odds of their packs the cost of targeting a new item can be 10 to 20 times more than SWTOR. And their system to get a new currency from duplicates/unwanted items.....now that should not even be legal. They even release exclusive items that can only be purchased by this currency that would require you to farm hundreads to thousands of dollars in duplicates.

14 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Or, there's prices being so high for redundant re-skins x infinity  that it becomes price gauging and frankly insulting to longtme $ubscribers.   Heck, why not have a promo whereby each month you maintain $ub in a row  you not only gain "free" CM coins but you also gain incremental discounts to all  CM items with each passing subscribed month?

A true reward for loyalty.

On that i also agree. There are too much re-skins. And just as they implemented login rewards, they should implement consecutive Sub rewards. Being sub during a long period of time should be more valued than being sub on X date.

[Kri-gal]

So, someone provided me the primary Materials to craft 2 Augments. I critted a total of 3 times and have 5 Augments for them. But, now I have to pay 229 million to mail them to them? Or, now they have to pay 229 million to have them COD? Seriously? 

[crimsonranger]

So my wife and I decided to start playing the game together, me being a player who hasnt played for a number of years, and my wife a new player.  Her not having cartel coins, and me having them, I thought I would get her some of the race unlocks, and the additional hairstyles and what not.  I went to trade them to her, and they require a 13 million credit fee to trade.  I dont even have a max level toon, or anywhere near that kind of money, so now I cant trade them to her.

I understand the reasoning behind the changes, but it doesn't do anything but punish those new/returning players who dont have the millions and millions of credits

 

[xordevoreaux]

29 minutes ago, Kri-gal said:

So, someone provided me the primary Materials to craft 2 Augments. I critted a total of 3 times and have 5 Augments for them. But, now I have to pay 229 million to mail them to them? Or, now they have to pay 229 million to have them COD? Seriously? 

Unfortunately, Bioware will be slow to react to these complaints. Personal opinion here, but until there's a mad rush for the door when people realize how untenable these changes are for guilds of all kinds, I don't see Bioware reversing course.

[Stradlin]

I   get why they are doing this but now is most def a..bad moment to go through with such a..crowd pleaser of a plan, heh. Should have hit emergency break when that IGN leak thing  got out.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Stradlin

[ARFett]

This whole economy change is just a total catastrophy.

Nothing good came from it other than restricting socializing.

You cannot gift things anymore or if pay outrageous sums.

Best examples some quotes from this thread of discussion:

"So, someone provided me the primary Materials to craft 2 Augments. I critted a total of 3 times and have 5 Augments for them. But, now I have to pay 229 million to mail them to them? Or, now they have to pay 229 million to have them COD? Seriously?"

"So my wife and I decided to start playing the game together, me being a player who hasnt played for a number of years, and my wife a new player.  Her not having cartel coins, and me having them, I thought I would get her some of the race unlocks, and the additional hairstyles and what not.  I went to trade them to her, and they require a 13 million credit fee to trade.  I dont even have a max level toon, or anywhere near that kind of money, so now I cant trade them to her.

I understand the reasoning behind the changes, but it doesn't do anything but punish those new/returning players who dont have the millions and millions of credits"

Also making a mess of conveniently sending around creds as a fast way other than running again and again to a locker each time you switch to an alt.

Seriously:

8% fee for sending around creds to my OWN alts in my OWN Legacy?

Totally brain scrambled decision.

By crushing mailings all the more items are forced to be on GTN where the prices will spiral more out of control again locking out new and returning players with not a mass of creds.

And to top it all off:

NONE, really NONE of these changes help battle inflation!

With progressive taxes and ONLY GTN as sale possibility with brain numbing high fees for MAILING the people will just switch their outrageous pricing to GTN.

What comes next?

Cutting down the limit of prices possible on GTN?

What these "economy changes" have done is destroying socializing, gifting things to friends or guildies, DESTROYING convenience and QoL when you have alts.

So much was broken with these - sorry - IDIOTIC changes.

As they do NOTHING to curb the problem of people with tons of creds.

They only give a kick to fresh players or returning players with these choking changes.

And worse:

Old players cannot gift anything to new players or even support then because they are ripped off for being...nice?

For being a social person?

NOTHING about that is good or raising my "QoL".

In fact it just makes me angry as things are made anything BUT "convenient".

What would be QoL?

For instance having access on my legacy account for PAYING things everywhere and on every Alt without needing to run to a LOCKER for getting my creds.

Or summon a Legacy Locker which even on several unlocks needs 15 minutes (!!!) to even summon again.

Lift the mailing limitations.

They are only destroying socializing, cutting away convenience from players and choke off the last bit of communication.

And for bloody sake:

Instead of choking the game with very dumb changes give us some cosmetic items exclusively for high creds.

Or even let us buy some Cartel Packs with insane high cred prices.

You already give us cartel items via seasons.

So why not via large amount of creds?

There is nothing pay to win in the packs - just cosmetics.

The road you are travelling is so destructive with these changes one almost thinks you WANT to scare away players.

As nothing - for damns sake - really NOTHING you did so far is a thing to battle inflation.

Only making life even for subscribers miserable.

I am player since the beta and no downtime.

And I seriously consider throwing the sub down the drain.

These "fighting inflation" economy changes are so mind numbing wrong and going into the worst direction.

And they are not even REMOTELY changing anything other than making players life miserable.

Especially new and returning ones.

Let go of this destructive road.

You are just choking off the player base worse than any inflation may do.

Edited June 14, 2023 by ARFett

[Vanechka]

I welcome ALL changes in the market so far. A lot of people are complaining "What about gifts to members" The answer is simple. Learn to use the Guild bank. These gifted items can be moved by GM or officers and put in a tab for the member to be able to pick it up. You don't trust your own members? That is ok too, Make a new rank ONLY for the ones to receive gifts and set that guild tab for members who match that rank to be able to pick them up.

Changes need to happen in order to deal with scalpers/farmers. If you are good GMs, DEAL with it. And if you don't... resign, find someone else to run it or dissolve your guild. Let the more capable GMs handle the players if you can't adapt. 

A scalper/farmer is going to do the best to break or find a way to work around the system.

Good day!

[xordevoreaux]

9 minutes ago, Vanechka said:

The answer is simple. Learn to use the Guild bank.

It's not a matter of learning to use the Guild bank. If you've been reading, you'll see that new members have zero access to the bank for their first 30 days, including the 3 people that helped the guild leader form the guild.  It's an extremely asinine change.

[Vanechka]

Adapt.

 

[touchesthelight]

My earlier comment got moderated, so I just be short.
These changes, which are meant to fix the economy will do just that. People will abandon the game in droves. New players won't stay once they realize how much they're being punished.
I spent credits to get the unlocks that allow me to use quick travel more often. But now I hardly use it. I just mount up and do the long ride to the nearest taxi and use it.
I was on Nar Shaddaa. I was going to quick travel from the Nicto sector to the lower promenade. But the quick travel cost of 5k credits stopped me. I can afford to pay it. But the new players? If they bought the legacy unlocks, they're going to feel cheated.
At least make the trash drops from enemies worth more to compensate.

So, penalizing quick travel, trading, mail usage, and guild bank usage? 🤨
You're well on your way to alienate your player base. And I honestly don't think you care. 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 14, 2023 by touchesthelight

[Ardrossan]

Prior to the broadsword sale the answer would be that we just have to suck it up because they don't change their minds no matter how much negative feedback they get. Now, however, we can hope that when we get transferred to broadsword they will take notice and revert these dumb changes, because not all studios are as stubborn as BWA. I don't know who exactly is going over to the new studio but I hope they clear out the rot that comes from the top. 

[Kogull_x]

5 hours ago, Vanechka said:

Adapt.

 

Quite right. I've already cancelled my sub. People need to stop whining and start voting with their money.

[TrixxieTriss]

10 hours ago, SithLikeTraps said:

Previously I would craft an expensive item for a guildmate just for their mats

If the guild mate has been in the guild for 30 days, they should be able to deposit the mats in the GB & you should be able to remove them, craft the item & place it back in the GB for them to withdraw. This shouldn’t incur any fees for either of you. 

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, ARFett said:

cannot gift anything to new players or even support then

This particular issue could be easily sorted out if BioWare just made any “gifted” item, Bind 2 Legacy. 

[Gytheran]

Are you guys high? I can't transfer a single stronghold decoration, purchased from a vender with cartel market certificates that YOU give away freely to a guildmate as a competition reward without ALSO paying 2,000,000 credits?! What the hell were you guys thinking? All you're going to do it hurt the game with this. If you want to burn credits, put MEANINGFUL credit sinks into the game. Don't penalize players for playing with others.

And no, binding on pick up for gifted items is dumb as hell, too. There are already plenty of BoP items.

[Noahtep]

So, I would like to expand on my previous post (on the guild bank).

#1  Don't tell me how to run my guild. I give my noobs 22k repair/withdraw/summon per week.  They also get 2 "General Goods" and 2 "Med locker" takes per week.  That is up to me - not you.

#2 If you don't know how to set your guild bank and rank access system up, maybe you shouldn't be running a guild... Just saying!

#3 If you can't afford a new recruit taking 30 or 50k of credits or items and then quit right away... Well, maybe your guild needs some credit influx!  You probably should re-evaluate how you are running your guild. I had 1 (ONE) player join then quit after taking the guild limit... Not really an issue for me.  I usually have to persuade the noobs to take stuff.

#4 Don't tell me how to run my guild!

#5 4 weeks is far too long.  A TON of players play for a week or 2, then get bored and quit, never to play again.  A week at MOST for this!

#6 Who would use the guild bank "exploit" to trade items?  It would go 2 ways: GM: please join my guild and deposit 1 billion credits in the guild bank and then I'll put the rare item you wanted in the bank for you to take. Spoiler: GM takes the credits and never gives the item.  OR: Player: please put the super rare item in the guild bank and I PROMISE I'll put that billon credits in the guild bank <wink wink>.  You'd be a total moron to do either!

To top the whole thing off, at least on star forge, prices are down by MILLIONS!

Example - GTN February:  Ultimate Cartel Packs were selling for 400 million.  Today you can pick them up for 125m.  The game has a supply/demand issue more so than "inflation".  Players put more items on the GTN and the price goes down. I'm not sure how this is a surprise to the other players and Devs.  

[Pirana]

8 hours ago, Kogull_x said:

Quite right. I've already cancelled my sub. People need to stop whining and start voting with their money.

This is how you do it. I canceled my sub over two weeks ago, For people out there not happy with this change, simply cancel your sub, problem solved. There are so many other superior MMO's out there, the only reason this game is still around is due to the Star Wars skin, that's it.

Staff has mentioned changes were coming, thirty days is too much, two weeks tops. This is the same company that I've mentioned numerous times that continues to run this game into the ground, and is exactly why it's where it is to this day. Without knowing all the numbers, I can all but guarantee this guild change won't attract new customers, but it certainly will lose more, this is their M.O. Staff here has been their own worst enemy over the years and it has not, nor will it ever change. They cannot get out of their own way, they do not listen to their customer base, never have, never will. Move on, vote with your wallet.