I hope the Republic vs the Empire stories are over, as I personally find them boring

[commanderwar]

This is just my opinion, but I just feel like faction war stories are the most boring, at least for me. I do like the companions, Tau, Rivix Anri, just not the actual rep vs empire plot. I also feel the rep vs empire stories have been pointless imo. You are always told by the faction leaders, after you complete a mission for every empire vs republic story that "we gain a major advantage and the end of rep/imp faction is soon!" but then whatever accomplishment or blow we did to the other faction is soon forgotten (ossus, onslaught, manaan).  Also I really doubt anyone going to win the war in an MMO. That why I imagine the World of Warcraft devs ended the faction wars, because people were tired of it and everyone knew no one would win completely. In the end out of all the stories that came post 1.0, the republic vs empire ones are not enjoyable to me. I enjoyed Mando, Kotfe, Kotet, revan stories better then rep vs empire.

I hope the writers just focus on the mandalorian wars/malgus story now, instead of going back forth between faction wars and mando/malgus story.

 

[FlameYOL]

Everytime they try to go away from the faction storylines, people complain and so they go back to faction storylines. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

[Whykara]

The problem for me is not the concept of the Imp vs Rep war, in fact I love it and my Inquisitor delights in slaughtering Republic dogs. I'd love to see more of it.

The problem is, as you said, that the game is very bad in making the stories matter. I think it started with Onslaught, with its many different endings and outcomes. It's impossible to keep track of all the decisions and dozens of possible outcomes (at least for Bioware in their current state and on their current budget), so they just don't bother ever doing follow-ups. If the game embraced canonically making one side lose here and there, the galaxy would feel more alive and the war more serious. Like they did with Makeb - the story frame is the same for both Imp and Rep side, but it's the Empire that eventually gets its hands on Isotope-5. Or in the original Foundry flashpoint - the Republic rescues Revan from the Maelstrom prison, and the Empire then uses that to trace the Foundry. It happens for all players, regardless of faction. I wish Bioware was brave enough to let one faction lose again, the player doesn't always have to be on the winning side. Imagine Onslaught having a clear winner, it would set the stage for great follow-ups, new villains and it would move the story and the state of the galaxy forward. But as it is now, it's pointless. A story where the faction you're on always wins is neither intriguing nor immersive. And it's impossible to maintain in an MMO.

[SteveTheCynic]

7 hours ago, Whykara said:

The problem is, as you said, that the game is very bad in making the stories matter.

Bad as it is, it's infinitely better at it than any other MMORPG that I've ever played.

7 hours ago, Whykara said:

If the game embraced canonically making one side lose here and there,

That would be a catastrophically bad idea if it went further than the effects on Imp Taris or Pub Balmorra, since it would be instantly interpreted by one and all as "so the Imps [or Pubs, as appropriate] won on Zoggita, sucks to be a Pubsider [or Impsider, as appropriate]".

7 hours ago, Whykara said:

I wish Bioware was brave enough to let one faction lose again, the player doesn't always have to be on the winning side.

The problem is not that the player is or is not on the winning side, but that it depends on the player's faction as to whether the player is on the winning side.

[Paulsutherland]

At this point I just want more content.

[FlameYOL]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:25 PM, Paulsutherland said:

At this point I just want more content.

Don't we all?

[Paulsutherland]

3 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

Don't we all?

This is the way.

[LanceDefender]

On the contrary, I'd prefer more of Imp vs Rep stories, but with various "types" and goals. One day republic is in offensive, one day as defenders, one day empire is in invasion one day as defenders. One day city, station, ship, minerals, prototypes etc.
I for example don't care at all about Mando's arc or Vaylin arc. I made an ally of Bask and his Dar'Manda and Indigo as well. I'm fine with that, rest of mandos can die.

So in general, I'd like to have more Imp vs Rep. It doesn't has to be main point all the time, but sometimes as a side-arc while waiting for other arc like mandos or Malgus/Nul.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I'd like shorter storylines, that actually have a conclusion.  Like the old planetary story arcs.   They were mostly imp vs pub, yes, but each planet had different big bads (or goods depending on your pov) to fight.

This years long multiple storylines, nothing ever getting finished, is getting tiresome   What I mean is they could have finished the malgus storyline completely, and THEN moved on to the mandalorian/Shae storyline.   That way it wouldn't feel like we've been chasing the same enemies for years with no end in sight.

[Paulsutherland]

Yeah it doesn't feel like we're getting anywhere with the Malgus & Mando plots.

[ceryxp]

I think, with their current development capabilities, BW needs to return to 2.0 style updates and story telling where each release is a self-contained story rather than an ongoing multi-threaded narrative.  Take for example the saboteur story arc, which began with 5.10 Jedi Under Siege, released on 11 December 2018.  It has been four years and three months since JUS.  The saboteur options in 7.0 were minimal and fairly inconsequential.  At this point being a saboteur is starting to feel like an abandoned story element considering how central it was to 5.10 and 6.0.  The Malgus and Mando plots are dragging on.  Two mins of Malgus gloating Vizzini style does not move a story forward.  How about when Gnost-Dural said he had a planet in mind for the Jedi's new home?  Completely forgotten.  And stop with the mandatory story flashpoints.  Those should be optional.

[FlameYOL]

2 hours ago, ceryxp said:

I think, with their current development capabilities, BW needs to return to 2.0 style updates and story telling where each release is a self-contained story rather than an ongoing multi-threaded narrative.  Take for example the saboteur story arc, which began with 5.10 Jedi Under Siege, released on 11 December 2018.  It has been four years and three months since JUS.  The saboteur options in 7.0 were minimal and fairly inconsequential.  At this point being a saboteur is starting to feel like an abandoned story element considering how central it was to 5.10 and 6.0.  The Malgus and Mando plots are dragging on.  Two mins of Malgus gloating Vizzini style does not move a story forward.  How about when Gnost-Dural said he had a planet in mind for the Jedi's new home?  Completely forgotten.  And stop with the mandatory story flashpoints.  Those should be optional.

I would hate to go back to 2.0 storytelling, the story would feel too small for me. 

[Paulsutherland]

1 hour ago, FlameYOL said:

I would hate to go back to 2.0 storytelling, the story would feel too small for me. 

At least 2.0 had a start, middle and end.

[FlameYOL]

3 hours ago, Paulsutherland said:

At least 2.0 had a start, middle and end.

2.0 was a glorified planetary arc sold as an expansion, a good planetary arc but I don't want the story to just be that. I'll take waiting it. 

[commanderwar]

I think my only problem with the current story is that there are to many mysteries right now, going for too long.

Darth Malgus plans are a mystery

What Darth Malgus found on Ossus and Dantooine are a mystery. We can assume the artifacts stolen revealed the location of  Elom temple but it's never really said.

How Darth Malgus survive after false emperor flashpoint, is a mystery

Darth Rivix is a mystery, they keep teasing that he has other plans

Why does darth Malgus want to fulfill his vision of a "galaxy in flames", is another mystery

 

I do find 2.0 stories kind of boring for the republic story, and the empire side is just okay. There just planetary arcs and I don't really want to go back to that.  Plus I like the focus 4.0 and 7.0 stories have on NPC characters, they at least have some kind arcs and stories for some of their characters.  2.0 NPCs in the main story don't feel like characters just quest givers.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by commanderwar

[Hrafnhildur]

It would be nice for a future story to have two separate lines - one for Force users  and one for non-Force users, in order to avoid the massive plot hole from KOTFE aka " the ghost of Darth Dead Guy explain to Johnny the smuggler, Jimmy the bounty hunter, Mary the trooper and Lucy the operative what is the Force" . Well yes, the operative might be, till some extent, Force sensitive, but still they cannot use any Force abilities, so.. 

Now we have the perfect opportunity: FU can follow the Malgus-Sa'har line, while NFU can follow the Heta Kol line, what do you guys think? 

[Dyne-]

On 5/20/2023 at 11:27 PM, Hrafnhildur said:

It would be nice for a future story to have two separate lines - one for Force users  and one for non-Force users, in order to avoid the massive plot hole from KOTFE aka " the ghost of Darth Dead Guy explain to Johnny the smuggler, Jimmy the bounty hunter, Mary the trooper and Lucy the operative what is the Force" . Well yes, the operative might be, till some extent, Force sensitive, but still they cannot use any Force abilities, so.. 

Now we have the perfect opportunity: FU can follow the Malgus-Sa'har line, while NFU can follow the Heta Kol line, what do you guys think? 

Agreed. It makes zero sense to see The Wrath of the Empire / Hero of the Jedi Order fight Ri'kan on anything that remotely resembles equal footing. I can't take it seriously. It's also why I won't take a non-force user through KOTFE. Anything other than getting eviscerated by Arcann and Valin makes no sense for them.

That being said I do enjoy the Empire vs Republic storylines. I like Lance's idea of different objectives for different story arcs.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Dyne-

[TonyTricicolo]

The writers over time have painted themselves into the corner of room.  We've defeated a God and are now relegated to fetch duties assigned from factional leaders that we are obviously superior to. We can't have anything new or people will complain, we can't go Pub vs Imp or people will complain. We're a back tire spinning in mud going in circles indefinitely. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[SteveTheCynic]

8 hours ago, Dyne- said:

Anything other than getting eviscerated by Arcann and Valin makes no sense for them.

Well, except for the player character's cranial passenger...

[Shayddow]

I would differ only with the Bounty Hunter - they become Mandalorian (at least in most cases - there is the story option not to). Even in the movies Mandos used technology to fight Jedi.

Palpatine used a clone of Jango Fett for a reason.

Bobba Fett went up against Luke freaking Skywalker. (although he lost ... due to the sarlaaac).

Jango Fett fought Mace Windu on Geonosis. Although again, lost. 

Yes, they lost, but they still had a fighting chance.

[Traceguy]

I just want to fight openly for the Republic as an Imp toon. Iokath was sort of in the right direction. The saboteur stuff isn't it.

I don't hate the alliance. It was awesome seeing a 3rd faction with Imps and Pubs coming together for the good of the galaxy. The alliance still exists, but Lana, the worst character in all of SWTOR who I hate with pure passion, forced us to pick a side, and then forced us into a role of saboteur if we pick the opposite factor. No Lana, I don't want to sabotage the Empire. I want to defeat them and put a stop to their evilness and cruelty on the galaxy. If sabotaging the empire from the inside means committing atrocities along the way, and slaying Republic soldiers and jedi, it's not a good plan. Means don't always justify an end.

 

[Shayddow]

For my #1 imperial saboteur, (namely one of my Imperial Agents), he has had long experience as a saboteur, so it really wasn't that different for him than ACT 2 of the vanilla story. 

For my republic saboteur (one of my smugglers) he is content to do sabotage, because he really would rather join the Mandalorians or the Hutts than be an actual Imperial. He's a Crimelord. 🙂

For my #2 imperial saboteur, a dark side Jedi, she would join the Sith in a heartbeat.

 

[OlBuzzard]

As many will testify to .. Republic vs Empire is the essence of the Star Wars genre.  And for some ... anything else is less (and to yet another anything else is simply NOT SW).  I disagree with that philosophy.   So many of the different worlds that are mentioned throughout the saga are made of up of people / creatures / life forms: sentient beings.   The constant battle between the two powers often catches these people / beings in a crossfire.  Sometimes entire societies are swept aside (often to never be heard from again) ... and others manage to gradually rebel and perhaps even regain their freedom (even if only for a short while).  Added to this ... the conflict has now span several millennia.  And since it has covered so many places over such a vast period of time there is ample room to tell many stories of those struggles.   The Alliance / KotFE / ET is one such story of many.  (I know ... there's parts of it that I didn't care for either).  I'm guessing that the only real explanation for some of the different stories (Lana being one of them) would be that of a parallel universe???

IN any case ... the only real issue for some might be the constant lack of cohesion or (in some cases) outright contradictions of the stories ... depending upon what class or viewpoint the story is being told from.  

IMO ... right now the Mandalorian story is a welcome story to be told while still advancing Malgus to his end.  (And this time ... maybe he stays that way!)  I guess you might say that we have a story within the story!  That provides enough of a change of pace .. and yet still remains faithful to the SW genre  (for the most part).

[TyrFoge]

I don't perceive the "Empire vs. Republic" perpetual back and forth as being the issue. At it's heart that is Star Wars (it's in the name) even if it's an underlying theme at times.

The issue the current storyline seems to be having is there is no clear cut big bad to take on. Sure Malgus has filled that role again for the time being but

Spoiler

Besides being captured at the moment

by now there's just too many of us too sympathetic to his ideals at least to some degree. Even the writers know that or we wouldn't have conversation options saying things akin to "I wish we weren't enemies". Same goes for Heta Kol. Mandalorians are known for their infighting. So the Mando side arc as cool as it is to watch unfold still feels like just another day at ths office for them.

What we really need is some sort of villian/villainous group/faction (maybe trying to take over the Empire's throne? Just bent in galactic genocide? Or any countless ideas that could fill an entire suggestion box thread) to fight that's 100% unrelatable and undeniably the "bad choice" that both sides can fight against individually without it feeling like the two stories are seperate and canceling each other out. KOTFE/ET was good for that with the Eternal Empire but the "Alliance" part of it and having us be leader of it is what made it finite and in a way ruined the concept. Revan served the role well for a time as well and many players will argue that was the best storyline in the expansions to date because of it. But again "alliances" were formed and ended that enemy. 

So if you can see where I'm going here "Empire vs. Republic" and them being enemies with one another is a key vehicle to good story progression. Just give us someone(s) to fight separately each with their own faction specific methods (and the nuances character player choices add to that the mix) that both hate equally and "can't let win"...

[FlameYOL]

8 hours ago, TyrFoge said:

I don't perceive the "Empire vs. Republic" perpetual back and forth as being the issue. At it's heart that is Star Wars (it's in the name) even if it's an underlying theme at times.

The issue the current storyline seems to be having is there is no clear cut big bad to take on. Sure Malgus has filled that role again for the time being but

  Hide contents

Besides being captured at the moment

by now there's just too many of us too sympathetic to his ideals at least to some degree. Even the writers know that or we wouldn't have conversation options saying things akin to "I wish we weren't enemies". Same goes for Heta Kol. Mandalorians are known for their infighting. So the Mando side arc as cool as it is to watch unfold still feels like just another day at ths office for them.

What we really need is some sort of villian/villainous group/faction (maybe trying to take over the Empire's throne? Just bent in galactic genocide? Or any countless ideas that could fill an entire suggestion box thread) to fight that's 100% unrelatable and undeniably the "bad choice" that both sides can fight against individually without it feeling like the two stories are seperate and canceling each other out. KOTFE/ET was good for that with the Eternal Empire but the "Alliance" part of it and having us be leader of it is what made it finite and in a way ruined the concept. Revan served the role well for a time as well and many players will argue that was the best storyline in the expansions to date because of it. But again "alliances" were formed and ended that enemy. 

So if you can see where I'm going here "Empire vs. Republic" and them being enemies with one another is a key vehicle to good story progression. Just give us someone(s) to fight separately each with their own faction specific methods (and the nuances character player choices add to that the mix) that both hate equally and "can't let win"...

I figure the whole stuff with Malgus is attempting to build to that eventually, with him making his own faction again. My personal theory is that he will attempt to make his own version of the Children of the Emperor from the rejects of both the Sith and the Jedi, imbue them with his own personal power with Darth Nul's machine and lead them on a crusade across the galaxy to reduce the Empire and Republic to ash as per his vision of a galaxy in flames.