Broken Tacticals and Roots/Slows in PvP

[BallisticKaine]

So let's discuss the current broken tacticals current in game that are abused in PvP. So many cried about Grit Teeth and Defel Spliced Genes and they got nerfed into the ground.

Ionic Discharge for Engineering Sniper/Saboteur Gunslinger - The reset on it with the tree skill along with the damage it does is too much for it. Let alone you get 2 or more running it and it ruins the match and gameplay. 

Volatile Strike - Once again broken with skill tree setup.

Two Cloaks - same reason Spliced Genes got nerfed was too quick of vanishing for Assassins.

 

Now onto whole other issues. Roots and Slows.

They either need to start adding to the white bar, or roots and slows need to be removed completely from the game.  

[GeneralTiphis]

Yeah when I came back I was surprised how nowadays everybody has roots/slows.

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, BallisticKaine said:

Two Cloaks - same reason Spliced Genes got nerfed was too quick of vanishing for Assassins.

nothing wrong here. defel splice was completely different. the cd on it was insanely short. maras were stealthing out and escaping combat better and more frequently than actual stealth classes.

 

3 hours ago, BallisticKaine said:

Now onto whole other issues. Roots and Slows.

They either need to start adding to the white bar, or roots and slows need to be removed completely from the game.  

nah. I wouldn't object to reducing either the duration or the % of slows. I do think those should probably be reassessed given the reduction of options to deal with such things due to pruning.

i think a lot of the changes kinda force players to play in a trinity comp, because (at least in my experience) arenas feel a lot more even keel with a guard and healer. like...nobody's gonna get blown up unless the skill disparity is really significant. as long as it's not a matched premade, anyway, the trinity matches are pretty fun. not intense like rated matches, but a lot more interesting than having one player be the rabbit on each team.

Edited March 18 by krackcommando
slows

[Beyrahl]

How about a real problem tactical? Neural trigger.

[BallisticKaine]

17 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

How about a real problem tactical? Neural trigger.

You have a problem with a two second stun tactical? its not as OP as people think it is. By time it is off of CD the player is usually white bared. Ionic Discharge is a bigger problem than Neural Trigger.

Most what I have found with crafted tacticals that other find OP are 3 things. 1, they can't craft it. 2, they can't afford to buy it. 3, they don't understand how to counter it. It was the same case with Grit Teeth. The biggest problem with Grit Teeth was the in pairing with Force Unbound Set Bonus. That is why most people cried about it. 
 

There is no counter to Ionic Discharge. Even more so when you get premades class stacking abusing the crud out of a broken tactical

 

How many PT/VG do you see class stacking running Neural Trigger in premades? Slim to none. While the Sniper/Slinger do it almost 90% of the time

Edited March 19 by BallisticKaine

[Beyrahl]

So a dormant effect, because it's a taunt that goes through immunities (because it always has 6s duration can be broke at 1s left) and then breaks on damage, is good? 
You may not run into a lot of it but I have. A 13s off GCD stun even lower for the tank if they take reduction talent. Something that ignores immunities and pops when immunities fall off, no thought process required is super unbalanced. It's like a shorter cooldown uncounterable low slash that doesn't break on damage. 
While the burst and damage are no joke of engi's tactical so is AP's its damage tactical is now passive and can afford to run taunt stun making it nearly impossible to outplay. 
Here's just an example of two pugs running into each other in regs and nuking anyone within their two-second stuns. One's because of a tactical and the others only add extra control. 

Don't disregard something else that is fundamentally busted because you want to drive home a point about another one, I am not disagreeing with you. 

[Balameb]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:40 PM, BallisticKaine said:

Now onto whole other issues. Roots and Slows.

They either need to start adding to the white bar, or roots and slows need to be removed completely from the game.  

Yes please.

Let them add to white bar.

And they need to lower the amount available fixed and optional. PvP is currently a root and slow fest.

 

[Voroschuk]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:13 AM, Beyrahl said:

So a dormant effect, because it's a taunt that goes through immunities (because it always has 6s duration can be broke at 1s left) and then breaks on damage, is good? 
You may not run into a lot of it but I have. A 13s off GCD stun even lower for the tank if they take reduction talent. Something that ignores immunities and pops when immunities fall off, no thought process required is super unbalanced. It's like a shorter cooldown uncounterable low slash that doesn't break on damage. 
While the burst and damage are no joke of engi's tactical so is AP's its damage tactical is now passive and can afford to run taunt stun making it nearly impossible to outplay. 
Here's just an example of two pugs running into each other in regs and nuking anyone within their two-second stuns. One's because of a tactical and the others only add extra control. 

Don't disregard something else that is fundamentally busted because you want to drive home a point about another one, I am not disagreeing with you. 

I don't really know how that feels on the receiving end of it but Neural Trigger should stay at least for tanks in some way, I find it the only option for a tactical if I want to use the channeled flamethrower in PvP. The tradeoff is obvious: you have less tanking utility because the taunt effect ends on damage for more CC. Taunt CD is 15s but can be (and should be) reduced to 12s by speccing into Payday ability to have an uptime for your hardest-hitting ability which would be a joke otherwise because of how telegraphed and ez to dodge it is. The other tradeoffs would be that you can't use the best dps legendary for a PT that gives +10% damage on Heat Blast, because you won't have that ability and that also means that you'll be overheated faster. So for tanks it isn't really a huge buff but more like an alternative build that is fun and can be viable too with a different playstyle where you may want to use Explosive Fuel defensively sometimes. Taking that tactical away would just make the spec a lot more boring with only one meta way to play it based around 2min CD burst windows. 7.0 has finally made it more interesting to play a tank spec so let's not ruin it ok?

[Beyrahl]

1 hour ago, Voroschuk said:

7.0 has finally made it more interesting to play a tank spec so let's not ruin it ok?

Matter of opinion and also isn't my choice. 
The tactical isn't really taken for damage or survival gain but rather to shut down specific players. Which indirectly helps survival too. I'd be okay with it not being used as DPS or seeing some sort of nerf with the interaction. Off gcd ranged taunt that can be pre-popped on people that are still immune is absurd. I won't go further into it, but the control factor is unmatched in a class with already good aoe/melee control. 

[meddani]

-garbage deserter buff system (especially on DCs)

-horrible matchmaking (arenas 2 healers vs, none for example)

-premades up to 8 (!) people

-broken classes (how many DCDS does one class (merc for example) need?

-roots, stuns etc

- pointless ability pruning

safe to say this game is in it's worse state (even 5.0 was godlike compared to this)

i'm done with this game until some changes are made.

(yeah yeah i know this ain't an airport but i'm still going to announce my departure lol)

Edited Tuesday at 06:52 PM by meddani

[Monhnich]

1 hour ago, meddani said:

-garbage deserter buff system (especially on DCs)

-horrible matchmaking (arenas 2 healers vs, none for example)

-premades up to 8 (!) people

-broken classes (how many DCDS does one class (merc for example) need?

-roots, stuns etc

- pointless ability pruning

safe to say this game is in it's worse state (even 5.0 was godlike compared to this)

i'm done with this game until some changes are made.

(yeah yeah i know this ain't an airport but i'm still going to announce my departure lol)

You just find out. It's been like this same 2-0-1-2

[meddani]

1 hour ago, Monhnich said:

You just find out. It's been like this same 2-0-1-2

been here since launch but it was never this bad

[krackcommando]

19 minutes ago, meddani said:

been here since launch but it was never this bad

oh. he was trying to say since 2012? 😄

[Monhnich]

27 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

oh. he was trying to say since 2012? 😄

I was trying!😄 you funnyyy

[remylion]

shouldn't dots and slows end when you die? I often have both still on me when I respawn in PvP

[krackcommando]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:54 AM, Beyrahl said:

The tactical isn't really taken for damage or survival gain but rather to shut down specific players.

It does everything. I'd say it's a kiting tool, but PTs don't need to kite anymore. It prevents opponents from escaping. It interrupts them from casting. It's legit another stun on an absurd cd with broken mechanics (like carb going through cloak except this isn't a bug?). tactics in particular is just overtuned atm. this tactical kind of reminds me of the early days when assault didn't have a (practical) timer on the hib proc and it was slowly elongated over a few patches. but those were kind of the wild west days and there were a handful of specs that had pretty absurd mechanics that I assume the devs didn't take into account at launch. iunno. it's a pretty brutal "extra" ability for a dps spec that would sit at the top of the pyramid even without it.

21 minutes ago, remylion said:

shouldn't dots and slows end when you die? I often have both still on me when I respawn in PvP

they persist through death. they have always persisted through death. afaik, that is a bug that BW cannot fix. given the uptick in sorc slows, complaints about this have been trending in 7.x. but it was always an issue with (in particular) lethality ops/snipers going back to shared trees. you can see it with the PT dot spec as well (it's hard to miss a probe showering down flames on you). in WZs like AHG, this can cause you to miss the gate b/c the spawn point is in the middle of a very large start box. otherwise, it's more of a frustration about things not working correctly.

[Prapcaster]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:54 PM, BallisticKaine said:

You have a problem with a two second stun tactical? its not as OP as people think it is. By time it is off of CD the player is usually white bared. Ionic Discharge is a bigger problem than Neural Trigger.

Most what I have found with crafted tacticals that other find OP are 3 things. 1, they can't craft it. 2, they can't afford to buy it. 3, they don't understand how to counter it. It was the same case with Grit Teeth. The biggest problem with Grit Teeth was the in pairing with Force Unbound Set Bonus. That is why most people cried about it. 
 

There is no counter to Ionic Discharge. Even more so when you get premades class stacking abusing the crud out of a broken tactical

 

How many PT/VG do you see class stacking running Neural Trigger in premades? Slim to none. While the Sniper/Slinger do it almost 90% of the time

So you only have a probelm with overpowered tacticals when they start effecting you lmao

[BallisticKaine]

22 hours ago, Prapcaster said:

So you only have a problem with overpowered tacticals when they start effecting you lmao

No, because I have been on the receiving end of Neural Trigger. I doesn't bother me as bad as the broken Ionic Discharge tactical. That is completely broken more so when class stacking is involved. 

 

Also I fixed you spelling errors, fyi

[Prapcaster]

Just now, BallisticKaine said:

No, because I have been on the receiving end of Neural Trigger. I doesn't bother me as bad as the broken Ionic Discharge tactical. That is completely broken more so when class stacking is involved. 

 

Also I fixed you spelling errors, fyi

First of all don't care that there's typos because I'm not a nerd /s

Second of all when a class is capable of globalling in 2 gcd's it 100% is a broken tactical it's able to give a second stun in those gcd's. I view it as less of a deal as engi one for sure but it needs to be removed all the same. No other class in the game has the capability of pt taunt stun unless they lose a core defensive in their utilities. Pt doesn't lose any defensive and let's be real they don't take much of a dps loss by not using overwelming offense.