Why are PvP dailies and weeklies based on win or loss and not medal count?

[remylion]

In Galactic Season we had missions to earn a certain number of medals to complete the weeklies. This forced anyone interested in finishing the Galactic Season mission to try and earn medals which meant those players actively participated in the game even if they weren't great at it.

The current PvP dailies and weeklies are based on wins and losses which rewards people even if they go AFK. This leads to people who go AFK the moment they think the game is a loss to people who queue up and immediately go AFK the moment they leave the spawn area.

Why not move away from a point system based on wins and losses to one based on medals earned which reflects participation?

Edited March 11, 2023 by remylion

[DaltarSpitfire]

When they changed the medal Rate in december most of us stop medal hunting. so i'm not sure that matters much

as for the dailies and weeklies I'm guessing that BW choose win/loss as a way to increase pvper numbers (to make more matches, thus a faster que, so pvpers would stop crying about no ques.) also as a unintentional biproduct making a win count 3x. Possibly removing Pre-mades faster. (I.E they finish the weekly an swtich toons, or logout) so casuals can enjoy pvp without harassment. (note this biproduct is iffy. does not work all the time. and rarely lets you have a good day in pvp.)

[krackcommando]

the purpose of the match is to win. so winning progresses you the fastest. it's a team game. you're on a team. this isn't rocket science.

they tightened up the medals awarded and the rewards for medal cheevos specifically to encourage players to play for the win instead of farming dmg and/or ignoring objectives.

you already get 1 match toward your daily/weekly even if you lose. and you can get medals toward the pvp seasonal cheevos even if you lose. but winning or losing in a GAME in which you play to win, is actually kind of important. I don't believe I need explain this.

[remylion]

4 hours ago, krackcommando said:

the purpose of the match is to win. so winning progresses you the fastest. it's a team game. you're on a team. this isn't rocket science.

they tightened up the medals awarded and the rewards for medal cheevos specifically to encourage players to play for the win instead of farming dmg and/or ignoring objectives.

you already get 1 match toward your daily/weekly even if you lose. and you can get medals toward the pvp seasonal cheevos even if you lose. but winning or losing in a GAME in which you play to win, is actually kind of important. I don't believe I need explain this.

you are contradicting yourself.

"the purpose of the match is to win. so winning progresses you the fastest. it's a team game. you're on a team. this isn't rocket science."

then

"they tightened up the medals awarded and the rewards for medal cheevos specifically to encourage players to play for the win instead of farming dmg and/or ignoring objectives."

So earning as many medals as possible defending, attacking, healing, shielding = trying to win or at least benefits the team more than players who join matches just to AFK the moment they leave the spawn.

This is why medal count would be better than a simple win/loss. Currently, AFKers know they can join warzones, not participate, then still get 1 point for losing. If their team wins while they are AFK, even better. Other players see a game is going to be a loss and AFK in some corner guaranteeing a loss. They don't care, why try when you can get the same amount of daily/weekly points for alt+tabbing and watching netflix.

If you want to fixate on win/loss give the winners 1 extra medal for the win.

Using medals will encourage people to participate in the game more than the current system which rewards people who AFK.

Edited March 12, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, remylion said:

you are contradicting yourself.

I'm not contradicting anything. they specifically removed medals that were not directly connected to winning or defending nodes with only minor exception. and the dev post said they did this specifically to encourage ppl to win rather than ignore objectives. it used to be easy to get medals. they made it more difficult by only rewarding activity they felt was related to winning. and yes, I think they were too strict about it. but to encourage WINNING was precisely the stated reason for the medal revisions. winning is what matters. medal count only matters for bonus achievements.

Edited March 12, 2023 by krackcommando

[remylion]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:52 PM, krackcommando said:

I'm not contradicting anything. they specifically removed medals that were not directly connected to winning or defending nodes with only minor exception. and the dev post said they did this specifically to encourage ppl to win rather than ignore objectives. it used to be easy to get medals. they made it more difficult by only rewarding activity they felt was related to winning. and yes, I think they were too strict about it. but to encourage WINNING was precisely the stated reason for the medal revisions. winning is what matters. medal count only matters for bonus achievements.

Being new to the level 80 bracket and relatively new to the game, what I see constantly in PvP are multiple people AFKing getting the same rewards as the rest of the team. They either stealth and AFK as soon as the game starts or give up and AFK when the team starts to lose.

If the dailies and weeklies worked like Galactic Season where you have to earn 45 medals to complete the weekly, people who do this would not find AFKing match after match as feasible as they do now. They would have to participate and earn medals to advance the dailies and weeklies.

This would eliminate people who join game and immediately start AFKing or people who give up after the first 2-3 minutes and go hide in a corner letting their team carry them.

The current system of using win or loss as the measure for completing dailies and weeklies only encourages people to queue up and AFK since it is easy tech frags.

Edited March 13, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

atm, those GS and other PvE-centered players who come into pvp are complaining that they cannot get the requisite 8 medals per match because all/most of the medals have been changed to reflect capturing or defending nodes. but here's what happens in your scenario: space barbie comes into match. doesn't want to be there but wants his medals, so he AFKs (preferably in stealth) within range of a node that his team controls. that's been going on since time immemorial.

look man,

• there are players who only queue to kill stuff, and they will ignore objectives regardless. - they don't care about seasonal or any other rewards.
• there are players who don't want to pvp (WZs or arenas) at all, but they queue up because they want the prizes for GS or PvP seasons.
• there are players who just want to win, regardless of the format (WZ or arena).

only one of those three groups of players, strictly speaking, belongs in the WZ/arena. can you guess which one that is?

but hey, everyone pays their sub (or doesn't have to anymore, i guess), so they do w/e the heck they want. the fact of the matter is that each match is a competition between two teams. one team wins and another loses. winning and losing the match is the POINT OF THE GAME. it therefore stands to reason that rewards for playing the match should be structured AROUND WINNING AND LOSING. like...is this really so foreign a concept to ppl? I know it's not just in this game. it's a societal shift where ppl feel entitled to something just because it exists.

you are literally competing in a match. you win or you lose. if you lose, you should be happy to walk away with your 1 of 3 possible points and move along. because in any other team game I can possibly think of, the losing team doesn't get a darn thing (unless they tie and lose in overtime).

Edited March 13, 2023 by krackcommando

[steveerkcanjerk]

I dont think this is super hard to understand. You should be encouraged to win, other games do this as well. You hop into a match and if you win you get way more rewards or progression compared to people who lost. It is to encourage players to play their hardest not just till they reach X medals, but to play all the way through to the end. And if you are afking you are making it much much harder for your team to win. So you are going to be at it alot longer then the player who wins most of their games. And I can say from my experience in the queues it works. I have been in some sweaty warzones and arenas and it was really fun. It was nice to see both teams actually trying hard to win. 

[remylion]

You should be encouraged to win so why doesn't it work now?

Issues we have right now with the current system.

1. People join Warzones and treat it like a TDM completely ignoring objectives. Premade guilds on Star Forge are doing this constantly and some are even preventing their own teammates (not part of their premade) from activating objectives to drag out the game longer.
2. People join Warzones and immediately AFK. They will step outside of the spawn zone, stealth, and sit there the whole game. Non-Stelathers will run off into the corners of the map to hide away from combat.
3. People give up as soon as it looks like their team is going to lose. I have been in games where multiple people give up and AFK when they notice there is no chance at winning. Why even bother when only two people on the team are even attempting to play the objectives? You are going to get the same reward as the AFKers or people ignoring the objectives completely so you may as well AFK too.

A system based on medals to finish dailies and weeklies will reward people for participating in the game even if their team is going to lose.

If people AFKing on objectives, at least those AFKers can act as bait to slow the enemy down. Players who AFK on the objective will either get killed and eventually kicked if they don't leave the spawn area. If they are stealthed near the node and the team loses that node to the enemy, that stealthed AFKer won't earn any additional points.

No solution is perfect but I would rather force AFKers to sit on a node being bait rather than hiding in the corner of the map completely avoiding combat.

The current system rewards people for AFKing, a system based on medals like we had in Galactic Season forces people to participate to advance the dailies and weeklies. You weren't finishing your PvP Galactic Season Weeklies AFKing in the corner of the map doing nothing.

If you want to reward the winners, give them an extra medal. The winners are probably already going to earn more medals than the loser so in that sense, the winners are already being rewarded more than the losing team.

Edited March 13, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

it's a team game. you're on a team. the goal is for the team to win. you can solo queue if you'd like. but when you solo queue, you risk bad teammates. i suggest you either leave the game when the behavior you speak of gets too much for you to deal with (I did that a couple years ago). Or change how you play. which is to say, control who's on your team by forming a premade yourself, thus limiting the number of AFKers and DMG farmers that will be on your team. if you're really effective, you could even premade your entire 8m team (WZs) or 4m team (arenas), which is overkill in my opinion, but BW clearly doesn't think so b/c they made it completely fair game in 7.2.

not much more I can add to this. so have fun and good luck in whatever you do. also, don't bleep any swear words on here. you might get an infraction point. spooky!

[DaltarSpitfire]

i kinda think the vote system for kicking afkers needs to be looked at..and improved. but other than that i'm not sure. a few of the maps make it very hard to get medals. and other maps are still kinda easy. honestly if you want a straight forward way...then stop giving losers rewards. the down side is the devs would have to listen to thousands more self entitled s**t stains crying about getting nothing for time wasted. and more crying that they want their sub cost back because they aren't getting rewarded for queing and standing around. 

I feel your pain. but the system in place is prolly the best the devs could think up on 15 mins notice and they barely managed to encode it so it half ass works.

lately i've been seeing some wierd stuff going on with the weeklies not counting correctly. or randomly adding wins / losses. so take it or leave it...mostly.

[remylion]

18 hours ago, krackcommando said:

it's a team game. you're on a team. the goal is for the team to win. you can solo queue if you'd like. but when you solo queue, you risk bad teammates. i suggest you either leave the game when the behavior you speak of gets too much for you to deal with (I did that a couple years ago). Or change how you play. which is to say, control who's on your team by forming a premade yourself, thus limiting the number of AFKers and DMG farmers that will be on your team. if you're really effective, you could even premade your entire 8m team (WZs) or 4m team (arenas), which is overkill in my opinion, but BW clearly doesn't think so b/c they made it completely fair game in 7.2.

not much more I can add to this. so have fun and good luck in whatever you do. also, don't bleep any swear words on here. you might get an infraction point. spooky!

The current system benefits AFKers and people who refuse to play the objectives because they earn no medals are essentially worthless outside of a PvP season and Galactic Season.

The current system is trash and only encourages more people to AFK or ignore objectives. I understand why you don't want it changed, it is easy to get credit for doing nothing in a warzone.

If dailies and weeklies were based on earning medals, those who try to win and play objectives will benefit even if 5/8ths of their team is AFK or treating the game like a TDM.

One system encourages and rewards people to AFK and ignore objectives, a system based on earning medals encourages and rewards people to participate and win.

Edited March 14, 2023 by remylion

[Glower]

Please have mercy!

With the new objective-based-medals-rules in some games you cannot even touch objectives (as a solo player) so you will stuck with these damned weeklies for months if they change it. 

[Glower]

3 hours ago, remylion said:

The current system benefits AFKers and people who refuse to play the objectives

But if you play objectives you get a lot of medals and a chance to win that session and finish weekly faster... People will just drop games more often at the very beggining if it will become medal based. I mean you cannot force AFK player to play actively, they dont want to... especially not vs 7-8 man premades.

[remylion]

43 minutes ago, Glower said:

But if you play objectives you get a lot of medals and a chance to win that session and finish weekly faster... People will just drop games more often at the very beggining if it will become medal based. I mean you cannot force AFK player to play actively, they dont want to... especially not vs 7-8 man premades.

You can still be one of the top medal earners on a losing team if you play the objectives. Why would you abandon the game when you can still play the game, play the objectives, still earn medals, and advance your dailies and weeklies?

You are absolutely right, you can not force an AFKer to participate in the game they join, but you can make AFKing in PvP pointless. This is what basing dailies and weeklies on medal counts does. It makes participation in the game mandatory if you want to finish your dailies and weeklies which isn't the case right now. Basing dailies and weeklies on medals earned eliminates the ability to join a match, stealth in some corner while watching netflix, then come back to the loss and queue up again which is a big problem right now.

You either participate in the PvP match or you get zero medals.

Basing dailies and weeklies on medals earned isn't perfect but it will eliminate people who queue up just to AFK and will limit the amount people who AFK when their team has no chance at winning (because you can still earn medals for participating).

Edited March 14, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

4 hours ago, remylion said:

The current system is trash and only encourages more people to AFK or ignore objectives. I understand why you don't want it changed, it is easy to get credit for doing nothing in a warzone.

😄 Ok. now you're saying I don't want the system changed because I'm AFKing? Bud, you're so full of crap, I don't even know how to respond.

Here's my WZ and Arena record as of last night: https://imgur.com/a/O3EaSQp

I average exactly 8 medals per WZ (full credit). I've played for all of about 2 weeks. I'm in 326 gear with only ONE set piece implant. Most of what I'm wearing is 324 conquest gear. My win rate is ~60% in both WZs and Arenas. I solo queue 100% of the time. Game isn't hard. Despite the restriction on medals, it's ridiculously easy to farm medals if that's all you're trying to do. Even with a severe gear disadvantage. But wait for it: you get more medals for WINNING.

winning is harder, especially if you're AFKing. but you can AFK and collect medals. iunno dude. you just sound sore.

[Ardrossan]

Many people posting here that pvp is about winning as if it's always been like this. Getting the weekly did not used to be so onerous and wins did not used to be the only thing that mattered. Originally the weekly was 8 I think, win or lose. You got more experience and credits for winning but the count was per match, you weren't penalized for losing like you are now, and they didn't stretch it out to 24 matches until later. Even when they did that, it wasn't so bad because the weeklies didn't expire the way they do now.

On 3/12/2023 at 9:02 PM, krackcommando said:

 

• there are players who only queue to kill stuff, and they will ignore objectives regardless. - they don't care about seasonal or any other rewards.
• there are players who don't want to pvp (WZs or arenas) at all, but they queue up because they want the prizes for GS or PvP seasons.
• there are players who just want to win, regardless of the format (WZ or arena).

only one of those three groups of players, strictly speaking, belongs in the WZ/arena. can you guess which one that is?

I play pvp to have fun, not necessarily to win, and having fun includes playing the objectives. Winning is nice but it's not everything. The focus on winning encourages the toxic behavior people come to expect from pvpers, and it creates exactly the situation remylion is complaining about because as soon as it looks like a lost match--which can happen as soon as one team gets a node before their team does-- people give up, but they don't leave the match, again because of changes BW made that don't HELP. I'd rather they leave than afk and get credit anyway. 

Warzones and arenas should be more like GSF, where it doesn't take long to get the daily/weekly regardless of whether you win or lose, and where the afk tracker actually works and will boot you if you're not contributing. I don't see many AFKers in GSF, lots of bads but that's to be expected. It's like these are from two different games, the dev design is completely different between pvp and GSF and there's no reason for it to be different.

[krackcommando]

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

Many people posting here that pvp is about winning as if it's always been like this. Getting the weekly did not used to be so onerous and wins did not used to be the only thing that mattered. Originally the weekly was 8 I think, win or lose. You got more experience and credits for winning but the count was per match, you weren't penalized for losing like you are now, and they didn't stretch it out to 24 matches until later. Even when they did that, it wasn't so bad because the weeklies didn't expire the way they do now.

you've lumped a lot of stuff together here. 1st of all, winning has always been more important to completing weeklies than participation. Originally, you got 2 "wins" for a "win" and 1 for a loss that counted toward your weekly. winning was 2x better than losing. somewhat recently (I can't remember if it was 5.x or 6.x) BW, in their infinite wisdom, decided that losing shouldn't count toward quest completion at all. currently, they've reinstated losing as a means to further your pvp quest, but they changed the verbiage and called the quests "matches played," awarded 3 "matches played" for a win, and the standard 1 "match played" for a loss. never, at any point, was a loss the same as a win in relation to the pvp daily or weekly. never.

likewise, you are not now, nor have you ever been, penalized for losing. you always get a reward box (usually some stims) and some credits and some valor and some xp even when you lose. you get more when you win. that has never changed.

expiring weeklies and dailies is a change. it is, imo, a very cruel change. it's cruel to bad players. it's cruel to players who just don't have time to play a lot each week. it's cruel because taking 2-3 weeks just to finish one pvp weekly hurts exactly NO ONE. this isn't like saving your spot in a SM raid so that you can run your entire guild through it for quick conquest crap. there's no way to cheat or weaponize these pvp dailies. it's really just some cold blooded poop on BW's part.

heck, I often struggle to complete arena dailies on an alt simply because arenas don't pop. and the off season arena weekly is still 24 (vs 12 for WZs, which pop 24/7 😄).

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

I play pvp to have fun, not necessarily to win, and having fun includes playing the objectives. Winning is nice but it's not everything.

cool story, bro. you're literally playing a competition between two teams in which one wins and the other loses. the objective of the game is to win. of course you're going to be rewarded better for winning. my gawd. I can't believe this needs to be stated.

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

The focus on winning encourages the toxic behavior people come to expect from pvpers

if you join a competition and don't play to win, then you are trolling everyone else in the competition. fwiw, WZs are a joke, and taking them seriously at this point in the game's life makes one look more like a tool than anything else.

but I have to admit, your statement here is baffling. this is your argument for getting the full "3 matches played" for losing that the other team gets for winning? whatever man. I think someone's spiked your kool-aid.

this isn't rated. 99% of players that try to shame ppl for being undergeared in a WZ are themselves ignorant and I assure you these are not competitive former rated players trashing your ilvl. b/c to competitive former rated players, these unrated WZs and arenas don't mean a thing. they're a joke. those players only queue to goof around and blow stuff up. you can thank BW for removing any competitive goals from their plate.

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

Warzones and arenas should be more like GSF, where it doesn't take long to get the daily/weekly

the weeklies marks were set way too high in 7.2. I think you'll find that BW has reduced the required matches for them in season 2. however, you still get 3:1 for winning vs. losing, as it should be. well, 2:1 works for me. but BW being BW I guess.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by krackcommando

[Ardrossan]

37 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

if you join a competition and don't play to win, then you are trolling everyone else in the competition. fwiw, WZs are a joke, and taking them seriously at this point in the game's life makes one look more like a tool than anything else.

Cool story bro. If you don't care about WZs why bother posting? Because someone on the internet is wrong ig and you had to correct it. 

It's certainly true that obnoxious l33t pvpers have been with the game from the start and nothing BioWare has done has been able to get them to leave.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ardrossan

[krackcommando]

44 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

Cool story bro. If you don't care about WZs why bother posting? Because someone on the internet is wrong ig and you had to correct it. 

It's certainly true that obnoxious l33t pvpers have been with the game from the start and nothing BioWare has done has been able to get them to leave.

you quoted me. therefore you engaged me in conversation. I conversed. but yes, you were wrong. now you know. and knowing is half the battle.