Please introduce brackets

[-Ashton-]

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

There needs to be some form of introductory quest line that’s rewards gear, tacticals and augments.  That allows players to have an entry level of gear and knowledge, making them accountable in group pvp.
 

Please stop alienating pvpers, by forcing us to participate with those who simply haven’t had the same investment as we.

PvP should not be used as a stepping stone for gearing. 
 

My suggestion is a bracket for fresh level 80 players

A quest line that involves 8v8 and 4v4 participation. Objective, damage , healing, guarding and winning milestones. The reward is a decent 330 grade set with purple augments and a tactical of choice. Similar to recruit gear back in the day.

Once the gear score is reached, the quest is complete, you can then que for the usual warzones.

 

[TrixxieTriss]

29 minutes ago, -Ashton- said:

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

There needs to be some form of introductory quest line that’s rewards gear, tacticals and augments.  That allows players to have an entry level of gear and knowledge, making them accountable in group pvp.
 

Please stop alienating pvpers, by forcing us to participate with those who simply haven’t had the same investment as we.

PvP should not be used as a stepping stone for gearing. 
 

My suggestion is a bracket for fresh level 80 players

A quest line that involves 8v8 and 4v4 participation. Objective, damage , healing, guarding and winning milestones. The reward is a decent 330 grade set with purple augments and a tactical of choice. Similar to recruit gear back in the day.

Once the gear score is reached, the quest is complete, you can then que for the usual warzones.

 

It would never pop. 

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, -Ashton- said:

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

uhh  you do realize there are tons of  players/exploiters who  go into WZ's  "undergeared"  on purpose, right?

You make a mistake when you assume  higher gear rating somehow equates to higher RL skill.

Or vice versa.

[krackcommando]

1 minute ago, Nee-Elder said:

uhh  you do realize there are tons of  players/exploiters who  go into WZ's  "undergeared"  on purpose, right?

You make a mistake when you assume  higher gear rating somehow equates to higher RL skill.

Or vice versa.

I played exactly one match (arena) in 306 gear when I hit 80. fwiw, it was a win. but the impotence of the gear was palpable. it's like I was waving around a wet noodle. complaints about bolster (or lack thereof) seem legit. and the gear path for pvp (especially in 7.2) is very wonky. I looked at a few guides for the quickest way to gear, rolled my eyes, then hopped on another old 75 and started pvping again.

for the record, I'm 100% behind the idea that specific gear tracks exist for specific game modes and tiers, but the thought of farming a bunch of conquest nonsense just to get 7.2 greens and jerk around in FPs to get a blue to turn into a...hell. blah blah blah. I've already stopped reading the guide. I'm here to pew pew not spam FPs and chase conquest garbage.

[-Ashton-]

40 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

uhh  you do realize there are tons of  players/exploiters who  go into WZ's  "undergeared"  on purpose, right?

You make a mistake when you assume  higher gear rating somehow equates to higher RL skill.

Or vice versa.

I didn’t mention anything about skill or gear equating to ability.

Even the very best players, would not be able to contribute effectively in 4v4 or competitive 8v8 warzones with green/blue 300-330 gear.

Also, forcing low irating to bump stats was effective in 7.1.    It no longer has the desired impact. Trust me I theory craft everything 

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, -Ashton- said:

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

There needs to be some form of introductory quest line that’s rewards gear, tacticals and augments.  That allows players to have an entry level of gear and knowledge, making them accountable in group pvp.
 

Please stop alienating pvpers, by forcing us to participate with those who simply haven’t had the same investment as we.

PvP should not be used as a stepping stone for gearing. 
 

My suggestion is a bracket for fresh level 80 players

A quest line that involves 8v8 and 4v4 participation. Objective, damage , healing, guarding and winning milestones. The reward is a decent 330 grade set with purple augments and a tactical of choice. Similar to recruit gear back in the day.

Once the gear score is reached, the quest is complete, you can then que for the usual warzones.

 

Better approach would be to ask BW to change gearing more reasonable for casuals. Current system is too complicated and too grindy. I play on all servers but I've only geared up on my main server. I can't be bothered to start over the convoluted mess we have now to get better gear on other servers, let alone augments after they destroyed crafting. 

 

 

[Nee-Elder]

5 minutes ago, -Ashton- said:

I didn’t mention anything about skill or gear equating to ability.

Well you sorta did actually, when you used the phrase  "enough game time to understand the basics" .

As if  going a number even a monkey could count from 306 to 330 = any level of true understanding of  PVP'ing

This entire game ( and it's players ) are way too obsessed with "gearing" and "stats" .

But whatever.

[DeannaVoyager]

 

5 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

This entire game ( and it's players ) are way too obsessed with "gearing" and "stats" .

 

 

I was writing pretty much the same thing, but you said it better.

I miss the days when pvp was something fun you could do even as a casual, a bit undergeared, and no-one had a problem with that. Too many people take it way too seriously now, and that's what's alienating current and potential pvp players who try it out. 

[Beyrahl]

Bolster does almost nothing for new players.
A simple solution to remedy a lot of the issues is continuing with what they're doing and removing it flat out.
Then they could just slap on a mastery aug buff for each piece you don't have augged so you're not at the huge disadvantage you are currently..
Or just add a way to get augments cheaper once again. 
There's no fixing someone's low/no gear situations and bad stat allocations but at the very least do something about the 5-6k stat gap from augments. 

[Balameb]

I'm personaly against gear brakets. Not only because it will pop less. I'm just against gear factor in PvP.

Put fixed stats, not bolster/sync that looks what you have and adds a complicated formula that works like crap every time. Just fixed stats (or points to distribute and make new loadouts).

 

[TrixxieTriss]

To be fair, swtor pvp was designed so people would learn to pvp in lowbies as they lvl’d. But BioWare mostly killed that route off when they got rid of pvp comms & the pvp gear you got from them. Since then, there’s been no incentive for new players to pvp till max lvl. 

Over the years there have been different suggestions & calls how to make lowbies relevant again so people learn as they lvl up. 

A suggestion I made recently is to combine lowbies into 1 bracket & boost everyone’s abilities & stats to max lvl with a cookie cutter stat distribution. (GW2 does something like this successfully). 

That would make lowbies a proper learning bracket where gear doesn’t matter. They could even allow new lvl 80 players join that queue to learn how to pvp. No premades so people can learn how to play on a lvl playing field.

And rewards for playing that bracket should include pvp gear that bring you up to a base line gear lvl required to play end game pvp in the max lvl pvp bracket. And BioWare could add a gear check to the end game bracket before you can queue.

That idea, solves multiple problems at once. 

1. Reinvigorates lowbie pvp for people wanting to pvp while lvling. 

2. Gives a safe place to learn before diving into end game pvp.

3. Will improve over all player skills by the time they reach end game pvp

4. Adds a proper pvp gear track to get people ready for end game pvp

5. Adds more people into the one learning bracket queue (lowbie bracket) instead of being split across 2 brackets. 

[Sundown]

15 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

I miss the days when pvp was something fun you could do even as a casual, a bit undergeared, and no-one had a problem with that. Too many people take it way too seriously now, and that's what's alienating current and potential pvp players who try it out. 

I do agree. I liked the times when you were grinding for expertise and you had a huge spread in gear and it was well accepted. From my point of view two things are contributing the most:

time passed: there are too many veterans with proper gear, but too few to sustain a healthy community. This leads to big gaps making games not fun.

win mentality: the changes bordering to "winner takes it all" lead to additional frustration if you lose and make people seek for reasons. And gear disparity definitely adds to imbalance.

 

Maybe BW should drop gear from PvP altogether and make it fixed stats. But I can imagine the sh*tstorm if they did.

[Monhnich]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:00 AM, -Ashton- said:

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

 

 

Ok.  They finish quest Now they got premades to deal with, Now what???

 

On 3/6/2023 at 9:00 AM, -Ashton- said:

Players who have gear scores of <330  will no way have enough game time to understand the basics of pvp.

There needs to be some form of introductory quest line that’s rewards gear, tacticals and augments.  That allows players to have an entry level of gear and knowledge, making them accountable in group pvp.
 

And once all this is complete, which has been introduce in the past, Premades are gonna stop misbehaving?? right..

On 3/6/2023 at 9:00 AM, -Ashton- said:

 

Please stop alienating pvpers, by forcing us to participate with those who simply haven’t had the same investment as we.

PvP should not be used as a stepping stone for gearing. 
 

My suggestion is a bracket for fresh level 80 players

A quest line that involves 8v8 and 4v4 participation. Objective, damage , healing, guarding and winning milestones. The reward is a decent 330 grade set with purple augments and a tactical of choice. Similar to recruit gear back in the day.

Once the gear score is reached, the quest is complete, you can then que for the usual warzones.

 

 

This is a premade Classic.  They complain because pvp players do not have the appropriate gear rating.  Typical Premade Out Of Moon philosophy, but instead they  will continue to cheat, / stuck, and trade win. Until the premade problem get resolves Which it has been addressed for the past 10 or 12+ yrs and nothing has ever been done so far. Then nothing should be added or taken from pvp. 

I find it fascinating and Shocking at the very least That premades manage to bring this game down from 23 servers to only 2 U.S servers. If I was a developer, I would it have a tough time falling to sleep😅😅

Edited March 7, 2023 by Monhnich

[-Ashton-]

4 hours ago, Monhnich said:

Ok.  They finish quest Now they got premades to deal with, Now what???

 

This is a premade Classic.  They complain because pvp players do not have appropriate gear rating. One of their Out Of Moon philosophies, but will continue to cheat, / stuck, and trade win. Until the premade problem get solves Which it has been addressed for the past 10 or 12+ yrs and nothing has been done so far. Then nothing should be added or take from pvp. 

I find it fascinating and Shocking at the very least That premades manage to bring this game from 23 servers down to only 2 U.S servers. If I was a developer, I would it had a tough time falling to sleep😅😅

its an MMO, find some friends?

 

I might be being a dinosaur, but i come from an era of MMO's where you played with like minded players. I started swtor back when it opened after SWG shut down and there were guilds of 50+ focused pvpers. So ive never encountered this issue, 

 

A lot of people left, i made new friends.  There no difference now.

 

If your unable to find a common ground and communicate with like minded players, (by reading your post, im not surpised) Then, its a path you have chosen, deal with it,

 

[Monhnich]

3 minutes ago, -Ashton- said:

its an MMO, find some friends?

 

I might be being a dinosaur, but i come from an era of MMO's where you played with like minded players. I started swtor back when it opened after SWG shut down and there were guilds of 50+ focused pvpers. So ive never encountered this issue, 

 

A lot of people left, i made new friends.  There no difference now.

 

If your unable to find a common ground and communicate with like minded players, (by reading your post, im not surpised) Then, its a path you have chosen, deal with it,

 

You 100% correct. However, times had changed. We want the option to choose whether we want to queue with premades or not. An option we don't have.. 

[-Ashton-]

1 hour ago, Monhnich said:

You 100% correct. However, times had changed. We want the option to choose whether we want to queue with premades or not. An option we don't have.. 

 

I completely agree, solo que should be a solo mode only.

Whilst there should be the option to que into a more competitive solo/group que combo 

[black_pyros]

There are brackets. Level brackets. Not the gear ones. Why only the level ones, you may ask? Because lower level brackets is the place where you should learn how to PvP. Level 80 PvP is certainly not a proper place to learn how to do it. It is an end game.

[krackcommando]

6 hours ago, black_pyros said:

There are brackets. Level brackets. Not the gear ones. Why only the level ones, you may ask? Because lower level brackets is the place where you should learn how to PvP. Level 80 PvP is certainly not a proper place to learn how to do it. It is an end game.

I would add to this that leveling brackets should also be where you grind gear for end game pvp. and that is why pvp-specific stats (like expertise) are necessary so they cannot be abused in PvE. BW has always been on the other side of this discussion, but gear grind against NPCs is part of the "game." gear grind in pvp just means learn how to kite for x-weeks while you get carried enough to finally allocate stats properly. seriously, I had higher  or ~equal everything on 306 gear than on the 324 conquest gear with the glaring exception of endurance. it's just /facepalm.

both of these suggestions/points will never happen though. PvP seasons and GS exist to funnel "nubs" into PvP as part of the game's "end game content."

[Crazykidddd]

It used to be a long time ago that when you hit max level the game would provide a cheap (or was it free? I can't remember) gear set so you could jump straight intp pvp and not get annihilated. 
Now the devs offer a very cheap full set of 320 conquest gear available as soon as you hit max level, and people are free to either buy pvp gear and grind it (i don't recommend this) or they can just do some pve to continue upgrading their 320 set while doing enough pvp (be it warzones or gsf) to grind some gear boxes, which is going to be the main way you will upgrade your pve pieces to pvp ones while not only maintaining but increasing the level of the individual gear pieces you are upgrading. And nowadays all you need to do is grind 2 pieces to max level and you can then unlock max level mods and enhancements and gear with them how you please.
Essentially what this means is that you are going to have to grind a little for your first full set of pvp gear, and that's it. The only thing you will have to upgrade for other toons after that is the implants. It's really easy.

Is this the most efficient way of gearing? Who knows, but it's extremely simple and straightforward imo. 

The alternative would be to make the first set of pvp gear you can buy a 328 set so that people aren't far behind straight off the bat, and then upgrade those to 332. Or you could just do away with all of it and make gear essentially meaningless.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Crazykidddd

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Crazykidddd said:

It used to be a long time ago that when you hit max level the game would provide a cheap (or was it free? I can't remember) gear set so you could jump straight intp pvp and not get annihilated. 
Now the devs offer a very cheap full set of 320 conquest gear available as soon as you hit max level, and people are free to either buy pvp gear and grind it (i don't recommend this) or they can just do some pve to continue upgrading their 320 set while doing enough pvp (be it warzones or gsf) to grind some gear boxes, which is going to be the main way you will upgrade your pve pieces to pvp ones while not only maintaining but increasing the level of the individual gear pieces you are upgrading. And nowadays all you need to do is grind 2 pieces to max level and you can then unlock max level mods and enhancements and gear with them how you please.
Essentially what this means is that you are going to have to grind a little for your first full set of pvp gear, and that's it. The only thing you will have to upgrade for other toons after that is the implants. It's really easy.

Is this the most efficient way of gearing? Who knows, but it's extremely simple and straightforward imo. 

The alternative would be to make the first set of pvp gear you can buy a 328 set so that people aren't far behind straight off the bat, and then upgrade those to 332. Or you could just do away with all of it and make gear essentially meaningless.

The gearing is convoluted & annoying.

[Crazykidddd]

It can maybe be streamlined a little more but honestly it's not an issue, at the very least not remotely one that is at the top of the priority list of things bioware needs to fix/improve, not by a LONG shot.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Crazykidddd

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Crazykidddd said:

It can maybe be streamlined a little more but honestly it's not an issue, at the very least not remotely one that is at the top of the priority list of things bioware needs to fix/improve, not by a LONG shot.

If long term players take a small break & then need to find extensive outside guides on how to gear up, not to min max, but how to basically gear. Then there is something convoluted about the system & it’s annoying. How new players are supposed to figure it out is beyond me. 

[Crazykidddd]

19 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

If long term players take a small break & then need to find extensive outside guides on how to gear up, not to min max, but how to basically gear. Then there is something convoluted about the system & it’s annoying. How new players are supposed to figure it out is beyond me. 

No comon, it's in no way even close to being that confusing. And there are plenty of guides online of people talking about how to gear tbh.
I will say that the whole process of getting 2 pieces to 332 and then reverse engineering etc is straight up dumb. They should just make mods vendors just like every other level bracket in the game and that would basically solve the issue. However you all have to remember that this is bioware we're dealing with, and grinding gear is their idea of content so... lol

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Crazykidddd said:

No comon, it's in no way even close to being that confusing. And there are plenty of guides online of people talking about how to gear tbh.
I will say that the whole process of getting 2 pieces to 332 and then reverse engineering etc is straight up dumb. They should just make mods vendors just like every other level bracket in the game and that would basically solve the issue. However you all have to remember that this is bioware we're dealing with, and grinding gear is their idea of content so... lol

You should not need to leave the game to find out how to basically gear up. 
Yes the 3rd party guides made by the community are excellent & explain how to do it. 

But you’re missing my point entirely. The game shouldn’t require you to look for 3rd party guides on how to basically gear up. It should be intuitive or it should provide in game instructions.

Im not even talking about advanced gearing or min maxing, I’m talking about basic gearing. It’s convoluted & not in anyway intuitive in design. I honestly can’t believe you’re defending it. Even the most ardent BioWare defenders think it’s rubbish 🤷🏻‍♀️