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Focus Guardian - rotation issue


swqael

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I haven't played this class before 7.2. I'm trying the Mark Biggs build/rotation for 7.0.1 that you can find on YouTube.

The full rotation he gives is: Force Leap > Force Exhaustion > Focused Burst > Combat Focus > Concentrated Slice (3 times) > Zealous Leap > Sundering Strike > Focused Burst > Concentrated Slice > Zealous Leap > Blade Storm > Riposte > start over at Force Leap

Have they changed something between then and 7.2? When I get to the part of the rotation that is Zealous Leap > Blade Storm > Riposte, it seems that about half the time Zealous Leap is still on cooldown.

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If Zealous Leap is on cooldown at that moment, then there is a timing issue with Combat Focus. Combat Focus Cancels the cooldowns of Focus Spending abilities for a duration of 6 seconds (4 GCD's). This means that after using Concentrated Slice × 3 > Zealous Leap neither of those two abilities should go on cooldown (so you can use both again after the next Focused Burst). 

If Zealous Leap is on cooldown where you say it is, then it went on cooldown where it shouldn't. Either you use Combat Focus too early, or Zealous Leap too late. I myself tend to use Concentrated Slice × 2 > Zealous Leap > Concentrated slice instead. The end result is essentially the same, but if I have to delay Zealous Leap a GCD, the rotation stays intact. 

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Also when you say start over at Force Leap, I assume you mean after Force Leap? You use it in the opener to close the gap, but you shouldn't need to use it after that in the rotation (it would be very disruptive having to walk back to 10m+ range rotationally) 

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55 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

 I myself tend to use Concentrated Slice × 2 > Zealous Leap > Concentrated slice instead. The end result is essentially the same, but if I have to delay Zealous Leap a GCD, the rotation stays intact. 

That's a good idea, I'll try that.

52 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

Also when you say start over at Force Leap, I assume you mean after Force Leap? 

Yeah, I meant Force Exhaustion for starting the rotation over.

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Interesting - I posted on Draemn's video about the focus issue, and he actually replied to me today.

He says he hasn't changed anything for 7.2 and doesn't have any issues. The only difference, though, is that he plays it on a Juggernaut, not a Guardian, which shouldn't matter, but still, something might not be balanced correctly between the two.

Anyway, to give more detail on where the focus issue is happening, it's typically in one of two spots - 1) after the 2nd Zealous Leap, I'll be left with only 1 focus and can't continue to Riposte... or 2) get all the way through Blade Storm, but have only 2 Focus left, and can't continue with Force Exhaustion.

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Hi, what passive did you take for level 43? The zero CD during Combat Focus or Critical Condition.  I'm gonna try to test on a Focus Guardian to see if I run into the same issue.

OTOH, I find that with the zero CD passive, Ragequitting's rotation seems to be much more easier to understand.  It is essentially 2 main loops: Combat Focus window and Filler window.  

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On 1/23/2023 at 8:47 AM, afwhoefuwov said:

Hi, what passive did you take for level 43? The zero CD during Combat Focus or Critical Condition.  I'm gonna try to test on a Focus Guardian to see if I run into the same issue.

OTOH, I find that with the zero CD passive, Ragequitting's rotation seems to be much more easier to understand.  It is essentially 2 main loops: Combat Focus window and Filler window.  

I've got Focused Meditation, which gives the zero CD during Combat Focus. That's what both Mark Biggs & Draemn have on their guides, and Draemn says he never has any issue running out of focus.

I haven't seen a guide for Focus Guardian PvE from Ragequitting. Are you referring to his Rage Jugg PvP guide? 

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Yeh thats the Rage Jugg guide from Ragequitting.  It is literally do all you can to get big hits during Enrage, using the fact that all your abilities have no cooldowns during this time.  So Charge (get Dominate passive) -> Enrage (gain zero CD and Destruction proc) -> Burst/FuriousStrike.  Here we're still on zero CD period, so leap again with Obliterate to get the Dominate passive again (no CD) -> Crush (also no CD and get Destruction proc) -> Burst/FuriousStrike.  After this end, I just have 1 filler loop doing Ravage, Saber Throw, Scream, Battering Assauly, Choke, Push..etc.  Your Enrage should be back fairly quickly due to passives.  The next time Enrage comes back, hit it first always before you leap->burst/strike just so you make Obliterate be free. 

 

OTOH, I find Syn's 2nd Amulet tactical somewhat helps to smooth out the rotation.  As Focus/Rage, your Conc Slice / Furious Strike enables Riposte/ Retaliation, and this tactical makes Riposte/Retaliation enables Furious Strike.  

Edited by afwhoefuwov
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Is your first concentrated slice after force exhaustion free? There is a passive for that, but the duration is quite short (3 seconds iirc). Since you have to go Exhaustion - Focused Burst - Concentrated Slice, it's possible the buff will fall off before being used if you have low latency. 

If that happens, you'll start running out of Focus. 

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2 hours ago, AdjeYo said:

Is your first concentrated slice after force exhaustion free? There is a passive for that, but the duration is quite short (3 seconds iirc). Since you have to go Exhaustion - Focused Burst - Concentrated Slice, it's possible the buff will fall off before being used if you have low latency. 

If that happens, you'll start running out of Focus. 

Yep, that seems to be the issue. Just testing the first five abilities over & over (Force Leap > Force Exhaustion > Focused Burst > Combat Focus > Concentrated Slice), and then stop, let my focus drop off, try those 5 abilities again... most of the time I am losing focus at that first Conc.Slice. So it seems Focused Vision is dropping off too quickly.

Thank you so much for figuring that out, it's been unbelievably annoying not knowing what the heck was going on.

Edited by swqael
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7 hours ago, swqael said:

Yep, that seems to be the issue. Just testing the first five abilities over & over (Force Leap > Force Exhaustion > Focused Burst > Combat Focus > Concentrated Slice), and then stop, let my focus drop off, try those 5 abilities again... most of the time I am losing focus at that first Conc.Slice. So it seems Focused Vision is dropping off too quickly.

Thank you so much for figuring that out, it's been unbelievably annoying not knowing what the heck was going on.

So that means you either have slight latency issues, or you activate your abilities slightly too slow. I tend to mash ability keys a little before they come off cooldown so they'll go immediately. 

If you can't seem to get it to work consistently you could swap to someting like 

Concentrated Slice - Concentrated Slice - Zealous Leap - Force Scream

Instead of the recommended 

Concentrated Slice (x3) - Zealous Leap 

You'll do less dps, but it should keep your Focus up much easier. Alternatively getting a little bit more alacrity could help too. 

Edited by AdjeYo
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1 hour ago, AdjeYo said:

So that means you either have slight latency issues, or you activate your abilities slightly too slow. I tend to mash ability keys a little before they come off cooldown so they'll go immediately. 

 

Yeah, I figured that out, now that I know there's that really short window for that buff. From Force Exhaustion to Concentrated Slice, just before the global cooldown ends I start spamming the next ability to make sure it fires as soon as possible. I have been able to get that Conc.Slice for free now and can do the actual rotation. Thanks for the help.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/27/2023 at 5:47 AM, afwhoefuwov said:

Yeh thats the Rage Jugg guide from Ragequitting.  It is literally do all you can to get big hits during Enrage, using the fact that all your abilities have no cooldowns during this time.  So Charge (get Dominate passive) -> Enrage (gain zero CD and Destruction proc) -> Burst/FuriousStrike.  Here we're still on zero CD period, so leap again with Obliterate to get the Dominate passive again (no CD) -> Crush (also no CD and get Destruction proc) -> Burst/FuriousStrike.  After this end, I just have 1 filler loop doing Ravage, Saber Throw, Scream, Battering Assauly, Choke, Push..etc.  Your Enrage should be back fairly quickly due to passives.  The next time Enrage comes back, hit it first always before you leap->burst/strike just so you make Obliterate be free. 

That's really not how you should play rage jugg in pvp. First of all don't take enrage spam, take the enrage purge with double domination buff because you'll get root, slow kitted during your enrage window anyway. And even if you play with enrage spam, spamming furious strike does way more dmg that the roation you gave.

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