Please post some evidence?

[bluehufsa]

Hi.

A fellow poster claims Mandalorians have no honor because .. they skin alive Cathars and make your character watch. Can anyone please post any evidence of that actually happening during (any) class quest, planetary ARC, side quest or any other kind of mission?

Do we ever see Torian, Akaavi, Shae, Lane Vizla, Valk & Jos Beraya, Vorten Fett, Khomo Fett, Jekiah & Rass Ordo do that??

Do we actually see any of them doing something dishonorable at all?

 

 

[Nee-Elder]

3 minutes ago, bluehufsa said:

A fellow poster claims Mandalorians have no honor because .. they skin alive Cathars and make your character watch.

Can anyone please post any evidence of that actually happening

Yep, i can ...  Here ya go:

• https://forums.swtor.com/topic/411120-wait-dont-almost-all-cathar-hate-the-mandaloriansempire/
• https://forums.swtor.com/topic/755686-cathar-smuggler-and-mandalorian-companion/

But i don't think you're gonna like it.

[bluehufsa]

You didnt answered my question : WHEN do you actually see a Mandalorian skinning alive a Cathar and inviting/forcing your character to watch?

Problem no. 2 : just because generations ago, not even in SWTOR era, the Mandalorians won a war against Cathar, all of them are to be labeled as "dishonorable" ? How about the ones born in SWTOR era ( Torian, Akaavi ) ? How about Lane Vizla, who was a child when you landed on Tracyn Island, spared with "Torch" and obtained information about the Revanites? Are they to be blamed too for w/e happened hundreds of years before they were even born?

Edited January 9, 2023 by bluehufsa

[Nee-Elder]

22 minutes ago, bluehufsa said:

You didnt answered my question : WHEN do you actually see a Mandalorian skinning alive a Cathar and inviting/forcing your character to watch?

Never, because that question is flawed, since the "other poster" was either trolling you or mistaken. ( conflating past with present )

Or, my memory of  11+ years of SWTOR  has turned to mush, because i don't personally remember seeing such Mando  cruelty  IN-GAME.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: i wonder if they read the 2 threads i linked yet

[bluehufsa]

15 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Never, because that question is flawed, since the "other poster" was either trolling you or mistaken. ( conflating past with present )

Or, my memory of  11+ years of SWTOR  has turned to mush, because i don't personally remember seeing such Mando  cruelty  IN-GAME.

So, there is no evidence of such thing ever happening in SWTOR, is that what you are saying?

Cool, thanks !

[Nee-Elder]

25 minutes ago, bluehufsa said:

So, there is no evidence of such thing ever happening in SWTOR, is that what you are saying?

No, i'm saying i don't personally remember BioWare  showing such things toward Cathars specifically  in SWTOR game proper.

( However, when i played thru my BH character  it was  *lightside* version )

Edited January 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[bluehufsa]

25 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

No, i'm saying i don't personally remember BioWare  showing such things toward Cathars specifically  in SWTOR game proper.

( However, when i played thru my BH character  it was  *lightside* version )

Still it counts as an answer. Thank you again.

[Quendorite]

20 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Never, because that question is flawed, since the "other poster" was either trolling you or mistaken. ( conflating past with present )

Or, my memory of  11+ years of SWTOR  has turned to mush, because i don't personally remember seeing such Mando  cruelty  IN-GAME.

I'm 99% I was the other poster, and I can assue I was using hyperbole 😆

 

For good or for bad, BW hasn't shown anyone being skinned in-game, but...

- In order to get into a competition your character has to either murder a person fighting for their people's freedom from Hutts or desecrate a corpse, all to get a Hutt's approval.

- Everybody is lax with the rules, but when a famous/known/strong person is known by everybody to be cheating, suddenly rules are more important than honour.

- You are the only class who has to steal their ship, instead of acquiring it in any honourable way.

- The entirety of the Cadera Clan arc is about how BHs/Mandalorians are conflicted between honour and creds.

- On Tatooine your character is forced to cheat by the story (let's don't forget everything around the Great Hunt is honour and rules, as stated before).

- "A contract is a contract even though honour would say otherwise" is the whole 3rd act of BH story

- "You have won the Great Hunt and have known Mandalore himself! Your prize is access to a special target list that only the richest people can pay. It's not for the credits, of course, it's all about fighting worthy foes, like a crazed survivalist who isn't in contact with anybody (and while pursuing him you can kill some settlers in exchange of credits btw), and either killing a mod boss in a random outer rim planet (same gang a random smuggler can go through) or again betraying your contracter for personal power."

 

It's not much, but it was OP who for some reason decided "Mandalorians" meants "main character during story", it'd be hilarious to consider Mandalorians as a whole and their traditional relationships with the underworld, their dependance on Hutts, the Mandalorian Wars, their relationship with the Cathar, their historical bias towards any authoritarian regime that let's them gain personal power/credits...

 

Not to say there aren't Mandalorians that aren't guided by honour... But let's say that some people Sith are all about "improving themselves" and "making change", or that Jedi are all about "diplomacy over conflict" and "stagnation and submission." If Star Wars has something, it's organisations who are great at appearing to be something while usually being their worst version of themselves. 

 

I don't remember much of BH story, I kinda liked it (more than it's counterpart, Trooper)

 

- On KOTFE, playing everything non-stupid LS you are a great, known, powerful, whatever warrior, but unless you're a BH (haven't tested it there tbh) Mandalorians belittle you, even if you help them and mourn their losses.

[Nee-Elder]

48 minutes ago, Quendorite said:

I'm 99% I was the other poster, and I can assue I was using hyperbole 

For good or for bad, BW hasn't shown anyone being skinned in-game,

uhh, call me old-fashioned, but i'd say it's def.  GOOD that players don't witness a Cathar getting such extreme treatment on-screen  in a SW video game  lol

Then again, poor innocent gamers are already subject to a slew of 1000 times more jarring  wretched scum & inappropriate villainy  24/7  if they happen to leave Fleet or DK genchat turned on.

Regarding  Mandalorians,  as mentioned & linked  within my first post ^ , BioWare obviously has a very fine line to navigate (for any 'darkside'  choices tbh ) when it comes to brutality.

[bluehufsa]

4 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

uhh, call me old-fashioned, but i'd say it's def.  GOOD that players don't witness a Cathar getting such extreme treatment on-screen  in a SW video game  lol

Then again, poor innocent gamers are already subject to a slew of 1000 times more jarring  wretched scum & inappropriate villainy  24/7  if they happen to leave Fleet or DK genchat turned on.

Regarding  Mandalorians,  as mentioned & linked  within my first post ^ , BioWare obviously has a very fine line to navigate (for any 'darkside'  choices tbh ) when it comes to brutality.

After 7 years of playing i got used to the Fleet chat and to Dromund Kaas. Yes, i agree, it is sometimes violent and extremely inappropriate, but there is nothing anyone can do about it.

But back to our topic, it annoys me how everyone hates Mandalorians for the war against the Cathar but at the same time ignores Arcann's crimes, Kalyio's acts of terror against the citizens of Zakuul, Vaylin commiting a murder in cold blood on Odessen.

But enough with the finger pointing, no one forces anyone to like Mandalorians, Sith, Jedi or any other faction ( Advosze Hegemony, Chiss Ascendancy and so on) .

[Nee-Elder]

20 minutes ago, bluehufsa said:

After 7 years of playing i got used to the Fleet chat and to Dromund Kaas. Yes, i agree, it is sometimes violent and extremely inappropriate, but there is nothing anyone can do about it.

i'm straying slightly off-topic here but, just in case some new players are reading this thread...

Here's a few things that CAN indeed be done about it:

•  players can always  right-click --> REPORT as spam  the offender's NAME and *silence* that person who is spewing vile & awful  rulebreaking type things in genchat  ( if enough other players, 10 i believe, also report as spam too)
•  if the chat is directed at YOU personally, assuming you didn't  deserve it nor participate in it first , players can also  right-click -->REPORT as harassment  the offensive person
•  players can then of course always just right-click --> IGNORE legacy  the vile & awful  offending person
•  BIOWARE (and neglectful EA ) could simply hire a couple of experienced  Chat-Moderators , to monitor at least  Fleet genchat and also capital worlds genchat  (aka DK & Coruscant ) where most new players are first exposed to such despicable & toxic  gamers  as their very 1st impression of SWTOR community

Edited January 10, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: it's BioWare's fault for letting genchat slip this far into the dreck for this long

[Quendorite]

 

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

uhh, call me old-fashioned, but i'd say it's def.  GOOD that players don't witness a Cathar getting such extreme treatment on-screen  in a SW video game  lol

Then again, poor innocent gamers are already subject to a slew of 1000 times more jarring  wretched scum & inappropriate villainy  24/7  if they happen to leave Fleet or DK genchat turned on.

Regarding  Mandalorians,  as mentioned & linked  within my first post ^ , BioWare obviously has a very fine line to navigate (for any 'darkside'  choices tbh ) when it comes to brutality.

Of course, that's what I meant: afaik, the most brutal thing you can do is decapitating someone and bringing the head to a loved one of the victim, which is super messed up. Apart from all the war crimes that don't receive attention because it's just "destroy facility / press button / crash into moon / etc", and don't feel as real.

 

What I meant is that in my original post I used a "famous" (actually niche, but known within the swtor memes community) phrasing of "I'm an honor-bound mandalorian! Wait until I perform this horrifying task so a crime lord can pay me!", but that horrifying task is horrifying, so of course it's never shown in-game. The fact that I made a general statement and OP said "oh, show me an example of a character in game during story arc that does it!" was funny, that's why I used that tongue-in-cheek expression.

 

This all originated as a joke, I simply cannot take it seriously 😆

 

 

48 minutes ago, bluehufsa said:

but at the same time ignores Arcann's crimes, Kalyio's acts of terror against the citizens of Zakuul, Vaylin commiting a murder in cold blood on Odessen.

Unironically, I've never seen anyone that does that. The consensus is that Arcann's redemption arc was too short, most people that don't rp full ds simply killed Kaliyo and is one of the most disliked companions, and I've never seen anyone who even liked Vaylin, at most people who tried to explore her tragic character

[Nee-Elder]

1 minute ago, Quendorite said:

 and I've never seen anyone who even liked Vaylin,

Well now you have, since  Vaylin = my favorite character in all of KOTFE/KOTET !

She cracks me up and i still play thru all those 'chapters' again ( albeit never again on master mode lol yipes overtuned much BioWare? ) and  get annoyed at the end when the game refuses to let me save/capture her as  companion ( like it does for her boring brother Arcann't  )

[Quendorite]

31 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Well now you have, since  Vaylin = my favorite character in all of KOTFE/KOTET !

She cracks me up and i still play thru all those 'chapters' again ( albeit never again on master mode lol yipes overtuned much BioWare? ) and  get annoyed at the end when the game refuses to let me save/capture her as  companion ( like it does for her boring brother Arcann't  )

I liked her before her ascension to the Throne, she looked like a character with personality and an actual story (one of the very few that's not evil just for the sake of being evil).

 

After she became Empress, for me, she was too much of a murder-hobo. Chaotic-Evil character are good for a while, but she could frustrate even my most ls playthroughs with my character shouting at her "I don't want the Throne! Your father is making us fight! Let's work together and we can help you!".

 

Arcann... meh. Honestly, I don't understand the fuss some people make, he was a pawn of Valkorion, he was powerful... and that's all. "My vision for the Galaxy", the cried out loud, while his vision for the Galaxy was "nothing changes but I'm in charge." 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Quendorite

[Nee-Elder]

10 minutes ago, Quendorite said:

I liked her before her ascension to the Throne,

The powerful  rarely ever seem to know what to do once they reach their proverbial  'mountaintop' .

11 minutes ago, Quendorite said:

Arcann... meh.

The other  brother  was far more interesting imo.  Too bad we can't somehow have fallen/defeated  characters as *blue glowy*  GHOST companions !

hmm...maybe another idea for the Suggestion Box section.

[Quendorite]

5 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

The other  brother  was far more interesting imo.

It would have been great to have a good villain. Thexan was supposed to be talented, practical, level-headed, etc: Imagine having an enemy that's not "Destroy the Outlander!" or "Destroy it all!", it would have been great. And his redemption would have been way cooler, not "I was evil now I'm good", but "I worked for this but it's a source of corruption engineered by the most evil being in the Galaxy I have to make amends."

7 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Too bad we can't somehow have fallen/defeated  characters as *blue glowy*  GHOST companions !

hmm...maybe another idea for the Suggestion Box section.

Would 100% support this. Maybe it's only limited to some story sections, but having a Force Ghost as a companion sounds rad!

[bluehufsa]

13 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

i'm straying slightly off-topic here but, just in case some new players are reading this thread...

Here's a few things that CAN indeed be done about it:

•  players can always  right-click --> REPORT as spam  the offender's NAME and *silence* that person who is spewing vile & awful  rulebreaking type things in genchat  ( if enough other players, 10 i believe, also report as spam too)
•  if the chat is directed at YOU personally, assuming you didn't  deserve it nor participate in it first , players can also  right-click -->REPORT as harassment  the offensive person
•  players can then of course always just right-click --> IGNORE legacy  the vile & awful  offending person
•  BIOWARE (and neglectful EA ) could simply hire a couple of experienced  Chat-Moderators , to monitor at least  Fleet genchat and also capital worlds genchat  (aka DK & Coruscant ) where most new players are first exposed to such despicable & toxic  gamers  as their very 1st impression of SWTOR community

Do you have any idea how many people i've reported in 7 years and nothing, but absolutely nothing happened? No one was punished, not even for serious offenses like racial slurs, discrimination based on nationality, citizenship, sexual orientation and so on. 

Regarding chat moderators : a game i've played years ago ( not sure i'm alowed to publish its name) had volunteer moderators called GS ( Game Sages), their job was to mute, ban and warn offenders. We could use something like that here too.

 

 

[JakRoanin]

Okay, don't hate me but the Cathar skinning thing was a deleted draft of the original KOTOR game. In the original draft, the NPC that killed Juhani's father and enslaved her before her rescue by Revan and Malak and Exile's forces liberated Taris, was supposed to be a Mando. But since Canderous was the main Mando and the G.O.A.T (sorry Shea you come second) and he wasn't skinning Cathar and enslaving people, they thought, No can't make this Cathar Skinning Slaver guy a human or a Mando, makes Canderous and the others in the story look too evil. So they scrapped the guy being a Mando. He does threaten to skin her and make Revan watch though. Trying to taunt Juhani into murder. That's where it comes from NOT TOR, and the Mandos DID wipe out the Cathar homewrold but no skinning was ever mentioned or done by them.

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, bluehufsa said:

Do you have any idea how many people i've reported in 7 years and nothing, but absolutely nothing happened? No one was punished, not even for serious offenses

hmm,  that is def.  disappointing....and perplexing.

I know some PVP'ers have said the same thing, about  'win traders' & such.

In my personal experience though, the few times i've had to report someone really really bad , BioWare has handled it.  ( i remember once they even got back over 100 items  some thief  stole---cuz of an exploit---from our GUILD-bank )

1 hour ago, bluehufsa said:

Regarding chat moderators : a game i've played years ago ( not sure i'm alowed to publish its name) had volunteer moderators called GS ( Game Sages), their job was to mute, ban and warn offenders. We could use something like that here too.

For sure and tbqh  i don't understand why  BioWarEA  hasn't  done it yet.

The only reaosn i can think  of is, of course,  *money* .  As in, i guess they'd be worried about losing too many players/accounts ?   /shrug

[bluehufsa]

4 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

hmm,  that is def.  disappointing....and perplexing.

I know some PVP'ers have said the same thing, about  'win traders' & such.

In my personal experience though, the few times i've had to report someone really really bad , BioWare has handled it.  ( i remember once they even got back over 100 items  some thief  stole---cuz of an exploit---from our GUILD-bank )

For sure and tbqh  i don't understand why  BioWarEA  hasn't  done it yet.

The only reaosn i can think  of is, of course,  *money* .  As in, i guess they'd be worried about losing too many players/accounts ?   /shrug

I fully agree with you, it is disappointing and perplexing. One year ago, we had a situation on Star Forge, someone started posting racial slurs and targeted a guildie of mine, a person of Asian descent. My report had no effect whatsoever, next day the guy was again in general chat, this time he had a problem with Eastern Europeans. Again, i reported them, again nothing happened.

Now, the same person is camping Ruhnuk and prevents Bounty Hunters from completing their quest(s) by pushing Pan Morri overboard repeatedly and whispering vulgar and very inappropriate things, because now they apparently do not have a problem anymore with Asians or Eastern Europeans but with Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians and players who use Torian Cadera as a companion.

What will happen if i report them again? Nothing!

Don't get me wrong, i do not have anything against players who saved Vette or are using her as an active companion, but i do have a problem with people insulting me because of my choices ( saving Torian, using Zenith as an active companion on Jedi Consular) , talking bs about my Asian guildies or about my fellow Eastern Europeans ( most of them are decent hard working people).

Personally, i don't care about the race, gender,sexual orientation, nationality,citizenship,religion or  favorite companions of  ( just as an example) the Healer from my ops team, all i want is to be healed, as simple as that.

I am happy your guild got the items back, but that is not enough, we need some moderators, Game Sages or w/e name they want to call them.

 

[Quendorite]

5 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

Don't get me wrong, i do not have anything against players who saved Vette or are using her as an active companion

Which is funny, because the Commander Terminal Thingy exists! I saved Vette (srry, SW ), but I resurrected Torian because I like collecting companions, so if anyone saw me with Torian and gave me **** for choosing him over Vette... lmao, if hating someone for a choice in a videogame is stupid, how stupid can one be to hate someone based on a choice you don't even know they made?

 

I usually only report and block credits scammers, though 99% of the time I'm either RPing or on an OP, so I spend very little time on Gen chat

[MortenJessen]

Considering what you can do in this game, skinning a few dead cats really is not that bad. 

You can commit war crimes ad libitum, you can commit sex crimes, you can commit genocide, you can kill babies, you can (not joking) kill puppies, you can torture wounded, you can kill PoW's, you can burn families alive. But you don't "see" it as such.

What you can do, and see because you actually carry it out; biological, chemical and nuclear war crimes, killing of civilian refugees, torture innocents (and not so innocents too) to make others talk, pollute hospital supplies, refuse to help children survive, steal from poor refugees.... and more. Much more.

Why this debate about what madoes most certainly did, although you never saw it?? 

Edited January 14, 2023 by MortenJessen
Spelling

[JakRoanin]

Well, it is worth mentioning that Boba Fett wore Wookiee pelts. Also, the Mandalorian society did commit Genocides. Nobody should think that they're any better than any other SW's faction, including the so-called democracy of the Republic. That said, in TOR nobody claims to skin Cathars that I know of. And at my Mando's trial on Voss, she defends herself honestly at claims of genocide by simply saying she was just adopted and committed no acts of genocide so she's not guilty of it.

[Quendorite]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:35 AM, JakRoanin said:

And at my Mando's trial on Voss, she defends herself honestly at claims of genocide by simply saying she was just adopted and committed no acts of genocide so she's not guilty of it.

I loves this part of the game, tbh.

"He/She's a part of an organisation that does war crimes!"

*My BH stares at a literal embassor of the Republic*

[JakRoanin]

It's true that the Mando's committed genocide during various engagements. But that does not mean every individual Mando committed acts of genocide. There have been some Jedi who are scummy people, but that doesn't mean they're all scummy people. There have been Pubs who are absolute disgusting people doing disgusting things. But not every person in power is disgusting. There are honorable Imps but its not an honorable society. Point is, my Mando would never have done any type of war crime, that doesn't make her less of a Mando.