Serenity/Hatred - Rotation Completely Broken!

[TheMightyIokua]

A question to my fellow Serenity/Hatred players:
Has the 7.1.1 changes completely ruined our spec?
Not a rhetorical question.
Is anyone seeing different outcomes?

I have been parsing since I've been able to get on since the update, and after about 30ish parses I have thus far determined that the rotation is completely shot with the 7.1.1 changes.
Not only is the Force usage dramatically heavier, to the point that I have to completely stop casting abilities, but Force Potency no longer recharges at a rate to be used in the rotation.
My observations this far:
- Two Time Trouble tactical is obsolete given the change of 'No Proc' to Saber Strike, and using any other melee attack causes Force OVER usage
- Force Potency no longer recharges with the DOT procs it needs to remain in the rotation as it was in 7.1
- Playing the spec and rotation EXACTLY as it was in 7.1, no changes, the rotation is still not viable as the best-timed range I can get Force Potency to recharge is 15-23 seconds (15 secs with good RNG, 23 secs with bad RNG) - after running roughly 30 parses

Has anyone else done testing on their own since BW didn't put this on test server first?

I can't believe the developers would allow this to go live.

My condolences to TK/Lighting, Sawbones/Medicine, PT AP, etc....
But none of those changes completely ruined the rotation the way Shadows and Assassins have been ruined. 

[AdjeYo]

Eradicate -> Dot -> Dot -> Leeching Strike

Eradicate -> Recklessness + Death Field -> Filler -> Leeching Strike

Eradicate -> Filler x3 (Repeat)

Filler priority Assasinate > Trash > Saber Strikes as force allows.

 

That works just fine. Take increased damage + armour pen over Death Field charges (if you want to be cheeky, get to 2 stacks of Death Field then swap out, for an extra Death Field in opener).

Edited October 18, 2022 by AdjeYo

[TheMightyIokua]

16 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

Eradicate -> Dot -> Dot -> Leeching Strike

Eradicate -> Recklessness + Death Field -> Filler -> Leeching Strike

Eradicate -> Filler x3 (Repeat)

Filler priority Assasinate > Trash > Saber Strikes as force allows.

 

That works just fine. Take increased damage + armour pen over Death Field charges (if you want to be cheeky, get to 2 stacks of Death Field then swap out, for an extra Death Field in opener).

I appreciate this. I will give it a try to see the difference.

[AdjeYo]

Alternatively you can forgo Maliciousness and go Hungering Force instead. I don't think it'll yield as much dps, but not having to worry about ever using Saber Strikes, and not having to worry about keeping up Maliciousness stacks with Recklessness cooldown reductions is pretty nice.

It's much more flexible in boss fights and pvp, where you might not get the uptime.

[sithBracer]

16 hours ago, AdjeYo said:

It's much more flexible in boss fights and pvp, where you might not get the uptime.

Bringing a hatred assassin into PvP ... did you hit your head?

[AdjeYo]

5 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Bringing a hatred assassin into PvP ... did you hit your head?

Pvp includes regs, and Hatred (like basically any spec really) is absolutely fine in regs. Just because it's fotm doesn't mean it's unplayable.

[sithBracer]

58 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

Pvp includes regs, and Hatred (like basically any spec really) is absolutely fine in regs. Just because it's fotm doesn't mean it's unplayable.

Yeah, if your idea of "fine" is standing still, doing no damage and dying when someone looks at you. I'm assuming you haven't actually played pvp recently. I would rather bring hatred into solo ranked than regs these days (and I did by accident once ... wasn't pretty).

[AdjeYo]

9 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Yeah, if your idea of "fine" is standing still, doing no damage and dying when someone looks at you. I'm assuming you haven't actually played pvp recently. I would rather bring hatred into solo ranked than regs these days (and I did by accident once ... wasn't pretty).

It's regs, every class can do well if you have half a brain. If you can't do anything in regs with Hatred, that's a you problem. 

[sithBracer]

6 hours ago, AdjeYo said:

It's regs, every class can do well if you have half a brain. If you can't do anything in regs with Hatred, that's a you problem. 

So your standard is "if a veteran playing a class can do well against backpedalling, clicking, bad players, then it is fine"? Stop pretending like you don't know how to rate classes. When we rate them we assume the players are of equal skill, not one player is an experience veteran vs a brand new player who is just learning his keys. 

When player skill is equal, are you honestly going to tell me hatred is good in PvP? No one in his right mind will agree with you.

Edited October 20, 2022 by sithBracer

[AdjeYo]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

So your standard is "if a veteran playing a class can do well against backpedalling, clicking, bad players, then it is fine"? Stop pretending like you don't know how to rate classes. When we rate them we assume the players are of equal skill, not one player is an experience veteran vs a brand new player who is just learning his keys. 

When player skill is equal, are you honestly going to tell me hatred is good in PvP? No one in his right mind will agree with you.

I never said that Hatred is doing well in pvp, I said Hungering Force is more flexible, which might make it nice to use in pvp. Which people do sometime, because it performs okay in regs. It's perfectly reasonable to talk about which options you might pick on a class in pvp, even if it's not in a great spot at the moment. So shoo, this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp.

[sithBracer]

43 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

I never said that Hatred is doing well in pvp, I said Hungering Force is more flexible, which might make it nice to use in pvp. Which people do sometime, because it performs okay in regs. It's perfectly reasonable to talk about which options you might pick on a class in pvp, even if it's not in a great spot at the moment. So shoo, this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp.

uh huh, ok, why don't we start all over.

You were the one who brought PvP into the conversation in the first place.

I simply replied with a joke: "Bringing a hatred assassin into PvP ... did you hit your head?".

You then started the conversation about the validity of the spec in PvP with the following reply: "Pvp includes regs, and Hatred (like basically any spec really) is absolutely fine in regs. Just because it's (not) fotm doesn't mean it's unplayable.", even though "this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp".

Now anyone who has half a brain knows that this spec is absolutely terrible in any form of PvP unless you are babysat by a tank/healer, and even then with so many sorcs running around all over the place, it will take a miracle to get a decent DoT spread, which is pretty much all this spec can do in PvP that others can't do 1000 times better. So, I replied to you starting the conversation about whether the spec is "fine" (not "doing well", but "fine").

You replied with the same tired answer of "anything can do well/fine/whatever if you are super mega skilled and your opponent is blind trash" (I'm paraphrasing), to which I informed you that, that is not how we rate classes/specs for any form of PvP in any game ever.

Which brings us to now, where you still claim it performs "it performs okay in regs" now, but at the same time "this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp".

Not joking this time, did you hit your head?

[AdjeYo]

2 hours ago, sithBracer said:

uh huh, ok, why don't we start all over.

You were the one who brought PvP into the conversation in the first place.

I simply replied with a joke: "Bringing a hatred assassin into PvP ... did you hit your head?".

You then started the conversation about the validity of the spec in PvP with the following reply: "Pvp includes regs, and Hatred (like basically any spec really) is absolutely fine in regs. Just because it's (not) fotm doesn't mean it's unplayable.", even though "this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp".

Now anyone who has half a brain knows that this spec is absolutely terrible in any form of PvP unless you are babysat by a tank/healer, and even then with so many sorcs running around all over the place, it will take a miracle to get a decent DoT spread, which is pretty much all this spec can do in PvP that others can't do 1000 times better. So, I replied to you starting the conversation about whether the spec is "fine" (not "doing well", but "fine").

You replied with the same tired answer of "anything can do well/fine/whatever if you are super mega skilled and your opponent is blind trash" (I'm paraphrasing), to which I informed you that, that is not how we rate classes/specs for any form of PvP in any game ever.

Which brings us to now, where you still claim it performs "it performs okay in regs" now, but at the same time "this topic was in no way about how Hatred is doing in pvp".

Not joking this time, did you hit your head?

You're the one who brought up having to be hit on the head to bring it into pvp. (Which is bringing up the validity of the spec in pvp). I think that's silly, you can bring it into regs and do perfectly fine with it. It's completely off topic, because it's about how to do a proper rotation since the recent patch, hence my comment on why you insist on questioning bringing Hatred into pvp.

[StrikePrice]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:38 PM, AdjeYo said:

Eradicate -> Dot -> Dot -> Leeching Strike

Force at 50%. The spec is beyond broken. 

[Crystal_Mind]

55 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

Force at 50%. The spec is beyond broken. 

And right after that leeching strike (which is 12-15 force cheaper than it appears in the tooltip, thanks to a combination of passives), you get a free eradicate, which saves you 30 force.

The spec is fine. It's a little Force hungry, but you're not playing a tech class. Passive bonuses aside, you regen force at the same rate whether you're at 0, 50, or 90.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Crystal_Mind
clarity

[AdjeYo]

21 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Force at 50%. The spec is beyond broken. 

Force at 50%, so? The rotation as described is completely stable and the highest parsing in the entire game. If the spec is broken, it's because it's leaving all other specs in the dust dps-wise.

[StrikePrice]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:06 AM, AdjeYo said:

Force at 50%, so? The rotation as described is completely stable and the highest parsing in the entire game. If the spec is broken, it's because it's leaving all other specs in the dust dps-wise.

Not true. If so, show a video of that rotation repeated without starving for force or missing GCDs. I bet you can't 

[AdjeYo]

2 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Not true. If so, show a video of that rotation repeated without starving for force or missing GCDs. I bet you can't 

Here's a sample parse  for you I plucked off parsely.io with the same rotation. Though admittedly this person seems less concerned with always using Leeching Strike after dotting, preferring Assassinate there it seems. (click on rotation tab, create rotation visualisation by Eradicate to see the structure clearly). 

But the basic structure is identical. 100% uptime on Eradicate, thee Eradicate blocks makes a full rotation. Dots on the first with one melee, Death Field plus two melees on the second, three melees on the third. 

I'm sure force was pretty low, but it is stable, you're never running out of force entirely. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by AdjeYo
Included instructions on creating rotation visualisation