Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

[Nelsitokiller]

I was actually expecting a buff for sin tanks, idk how they are in pvp but in pve they are struggling. Most people avoid sin tanks because the other 2 tank specs are flat out superior as tanks. Not that the bit of DR from severing slash helped in pve but something else to make them compete with the other tanks would be great, it's sad seeing how much damage sins tank in comparison. If the proposed changes are a pvp thing atleast add something else as compensation, even a few extra DR. I dont think sin tanks should only be really viable if they can use shroud against something.

[Elvarania]

The lack of diversity in pve to me comes to how broken juggernaut aoe is and the utility powertech and annihilation bring to the table since there are classes that do more dps than them but are not used or used way less

 

I agree with you. As a lifelong Watchman main, I was very disappointed to see how Concentration was so buffed in 7.0. Watchman is still competitive and I can pull good numbers, but I feel that I am mostly asked to play this spec due to the great group healing it provides, rather than my choice to play it. However, each boss in R-4 is bad for Concentration simply due to Zealous Leap. This is always been a sore spot for Sentinels, but as a class we now feel shoehorned into a spec because our raid wants the heals as priority. I want to play Watchman because I want to challenge myself to utilise the spec well, not because our healers need the extra boost. Hell, I am even trying out Combat for the first time in 11 years because it doesn't have Zealous Leap and is quite competitive! But it's the story of the 'month' of this expansion, as you say. Add heavy? Bring a braindead Guardian to spam slam. Bring 4 Pyro PTs to break burst DPS windows. Don't allow your players to play what they want, gods forbid, or you won't meet DPS checks or clear a fight. That is not good encounter design, lol

[Ninja_Medic]

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

You need to address the current state of R-4 HM. Specifically the first encounter IP CPT and how comically overturned it is. It is fundamentally absurd that you need a composition of either 6DPS 2H or 5DPS 3H to pass the dps check. What worries me most about this fight is that it was easier on pts and changes were pushed to live which were clearly never playtested in any meaningful way. As far as I can tell, the only reason for this was to gatekeep anyone but the most dedicated of nim teams from actually getting past this boss. Watchdog and Lord Kanoth are both considerably easier which reinforces this idea.

 

Even if you have no intention to actually balance this fight, it would be nice to understand that this was an intended level of difficulty. I know you’re active in this thread, so comment would be appreciated.

[Elvarania]

I was actually expecting a buff for sin tanks, idk how they are in pvp but in pve they are struggling. Most people avoid sin tanks because the other 2 tank specs are flat out superior as tanks. Not that the bit of DR from severing slash helped in pve but something else to make them compete with the other tanks would be great, it's sad seeing how much damage sins tank in comparison. If the proposed changes are a pvp thing atleast add something else as compensation, even a few extra DR. I dont think sin tanks should only be really viable if they can use shroud against something.

 

Yeah, the Assassin is now one of the weakest tanks, for sure. Mainly due to the change of cloak. We can no longer 'mitigate' abilities by stealthing out, so we rely entirely on our defensives which have long cooldowns. Unless you specifically need an Assassin for FotF/Shroud like on Dread Guards, they aren't the best choice at all. The Ballast Point implant is a joke, too. Most smart tanks I know take the implant that decreases the cooldown of Recklessness to use as a defensive. Why waste an implant of what is essentially Hydraulics when you can just bring a PT?

[Gyronamics]

...

 

7.1 we will be ranging from 0% AOE DR to 60% AOE DR which I will sort in order of strength in my opinion

 

Sniper - 60% x 20-23s on 45-60s CD (Entrench), resettable by a 3m CD - this didn't actually change

Powertech - 60% x 15s on 35-45s CD (Sonic Missile) AP with 35s CD almost has this up half the time

Juggernaut - 60% x 15s on 45s CD (Threatening Scream)

Assassin - 60% x 15s on 45s CD (Mass Mind Control)

Marauder (Carnage & Annihilation) - 30% for 20s on 300s CD (Inspiration) (final version = 30% for 10s on Bloodthirst (300s), Cloak of Pain (60s or less), Predation (20s))

Marauder (Fury) - 15% x 6s on technically 30s CD but actually every second Force Crush so 36s?

Operatives - nothing

Sorcerer - nothing

Mercenary - nothing

 

wat

 

So this 7.1.1 update is planning to change that list to include Operatives as having an AOE DR again on a short CD like most other classes. Very frequently available with targeted perks to get faster Evasion and more Evasions.

 

Sorc and Merc will join that list eventually?

 

Everyone had their 30 or 60% AOE DR before 7.0 and the operations didn't lose high damage AOE phases. Some classes simply got stripped of AOE DR.

 

Sorc has a mess of generic DR on various CD but no specific AOE DR. Maybe the generic DR options justifies no AOE DR? Maybe.

 

Meanwhile Merc has exactly 1 DCD which reduces damage from AOE (or DoT) in the form of 25% generic DR on a 120s CD in Energy Shield. They lost 30% AOE DR (perk passive which also had 30% stunned DR) and also 30% DoT DR (after using cure perk) going into 7.0 and all of that was replaced with nothing.

 

 

Merc DCD are strong but extremely biased towards single target damage and recovery healing, both of which are niche in an operation group with tanks and healers. Burst AOE is what operations like to do and there's not much a merc can do about that.

 

The same 60% AOE DR x 15s that half the classes have glued to their threat drop can be glued to mercs Chaff Flare (same 45s as everyone else) too.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Gyronamics

[Revan-the-knight]

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

I think that while having access to everyone's genuine thoughts and feedback in the form of their written words here on the forums and other platforms is useful, it may not be the best outlet for community feedback when it comes to actually finding out the useful information that is in those posts. There's a lot to read, some posts are larger than others, and the forum has a lot of rooms, which means that good feedback and ideas can fall through the cracks.

 

Why not re-enable the polls function of the website that used to exist some years ago and structure some polls, where you can see clearly how many are in support or against certain changes/additions without having to count individual posts across multiple threads? Or use a different platform to host polls on, if this one isn't suitable.

 

Before making any major changes to existing content (such as a sweeping balance update, removing/reworking systems like amplifiers, renown etc) a poll could come through asking a series of questions like:

 

"The dev team are intending to work on X, and have proposed Z as the solution, do you think that the proposed changes/additions are going to help us achieve that goal? Yes/No/Undecided? If no, elaborate on why it would not help, if undecided, elaborate on why you're not certain." - The player would then get the opportunity to write what their thoughts are on the proposed changes and what they feel doesn't work about them and similar. The dev team get all of the Yes/No/Undecided answers that they need to quickly gauge whether a certain idea is worth working on or not and the players get the ability to provide more succinct feedback. Further questions for such a poll could be:

 

"With the proposed changes in mind, what would you change about them, if you wanted to make changes? Please be as detailed as possible."

 

"With the proposed changes in mind, how many sections of the changes are you fine with? Please be as detailed as possible." - 'sections' would be in reference to different bulletpoints on patch notes, and the like.

 

I am sure the team can devise a better polling system for us players than i could, but just offering my suggestion, i think that it would ease the process a bit, both in giving the developer team a clear indication of what direction to take the game in based on clear player feedback, and how to make the most of the feedback given by having it all neatly stored in one place, and not in many different places like the different forum threads.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Revan-the-knight

[Soldekai]

So, screw PVPers for the sake of PVEers, because that's not the exact same thing in reverse or anything, right?

 

The game has always been primarily PVE with PVP as an addition much like GSF and balancing specs for PVP in swtor is like designing a house for what the owners pets might like and expecting everyone else to be fine with it. Sure, it's great for the pets and even some of the owners, but its hardly going to have mass appeal. Don't like it? Play a PVP centric game,

[timovdt]

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

Perhaps it is also usefull if we could get an explanation on some of these changes or the lack of them on some specs,

 

Like for example the madness tactical makes very little sence also its one of the few specs that could use buffs,

I would say Marksmanship Madness Arsenal could all use buffs, so perhaps explain wy these are not getting them

and what the reasoning behind it is,

 

some of us have not been able to main these specs for years now because of there low preformance and it is very depressing that it has come to the point that you have what 3 to 4 viable ranged specs .

 

and then 3 practicly dead specs.

so please if anything make the bottom 3 ranged spec atleast competitive for one expansion is my request

[codydmaan]

I hope I can be constructive. I am a PvE player and never dabble in ranked PvP. There is a 15 long page thread on R-4 being badly tuned; the first boss requires very high DPS and very precise movement. So high that teams are running 6 DPS and one tank. The second and third bosses are very easy in comparison. In fact, most teams need to stop DPS on the 2nd boss so they don't push it into burn whilst being in Stalker Protocol. R-4 is also riddled with very frustrating bugs like people appearing dead, the 2nd boss being inaccessible after a raid session and requiring a Sniper push, to name just 2.

 

I feel the frustration here from the PvE community is that, for class changes, we were expecting buffs for the classes that are underperforming. Instead, we see a heavy nerf for Tactics Vanguard and Scoundrel healers, with a very slight buff for Shadows and Balance/Seer Sages. I appreciate this post might be tailored just to classes, but what we really want to see is you addressing the issues with R-4, as it is the only new competitive PvE content you have released, and the only way to gear past 330.

 

I hope I can speak for us all but what the community want to see is a buff for the underperforming DPS classes like Arsenal Commando, rather than a nerf for something like Tactics which isn't really that OP in PvE. But what we want even more, is addressing the bizarre scaling issue for R-4. The first boss needs much less damage output and a health nerf, if you are not going to buff class DPS to allow raid teams to bring classes they want, rather than restrict them ('no Commando for this boss!'). I sincerely hope this yellow post is going to be accompanied by another general nerf for R-4 post, otherwise you are just going to present you community with essentially 'we have heavily nerfed 2 classes, slightly buffed 4 and we are not addressing/changing anything in R-4 which is only completable by 1% of our playerbase'.

 

How do you think that is going to sound to the community?

Please address the glaring issues raised in the forums, buff classes to a point that they are actively no longer refused in raids, certainly nerf classes that are slightly OP, but not if you are not going to address any of the other pressing issues!!

 

TL;DR:

Don't just hit us with nerfs when your only new content/way of gearing needs immediate attention. At least give us some good news along with the bad, and make the underperforming classes more viable.

 

Bump I agree with this

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

The game has always been primarily PVE with PVP as an addition much like GSF and balancing specs for PVP in swtor is like designing a house for what the owners pets might like and expecting everyone else to be fine with it. Sure, it's great for the pets and even some of the owners, but its hardly going to have mass appeal. Don't like it? Play a PVP centric game,

 

Even if that is the case, that doesn't make it fair. Comparing PVP to GSF is a false comparison. There is a much larger segment of the player base that PVP than plays GSF. The PVE player base is bigger than the PVP player base, but percentage wise, you can't say the PVP player base is small. It's still alot of players.

 

The idea here isn't about prioritizing one player base of the other. The ideal solution is to separate class balancing of PVE from PVP. Because painting both with the same paint stroke, doesn't ever work and always leads to problems and always upsets one side or the other. Keep both sides happy, by separating the class balancing between the two styles of play, this way every one is happy. That's just good business.

 

As is, one side will always suffer from the sake of the other.

 

I don't favor one over the other. They both matter to me. I won't ever be okay with saying "screw PVP' because its the smaller player base" anymore than I would be okay with "screw PVE, kiss PVPers asses".

 

The solution here isn't a hard one.

Edited August 31, 2022 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Merkalto]

Walls of text warning!

AP PT changes

 

 

The new AP tactical seems too complex to be a tactical in my opinion. Even the most wordy tacticals in the game are very straight forward in what they do (e.g. Shade of Mortis consuming and refunding rage,Thermal Screen giving more Heat Screen, etc). This tactical does too much and feels like it's trying to accomplish three things at once. Those being:

A: Give APPT an actual single target tactical.

B: Give APPT more burst (which feels unnecessary, although it looks like the base class was nerfed in order to move power to this tactical?)

C: Give APPT more crowd control and presence in PvP, as the slow is useless in PvE.

 

As a few others have brought up on here, the sheer number of crazy slows and roots in the game currently make PvP less fun to play for classes that don't have an easy way to cleanse slows (excluding root breaker) such as Mercs and and Juggs. Roots are too abundant, and the slow on this tactical is overkill for APPT, seeing as how you can opt in to get a baseline 25% slow on Magnetic Burst already.

 

I'd personally like to see a tactical that provides more sustain damage in PvE, versus more burst for a class that is already notorious for being incredibly bursty with Energy Burst spam.

 

As I previously mentioned, the base class is getting a pretty heavy nerf, which I have mixed thoughts on. The Power Yield damage nerf makes sense to me if the goal is to make the class less obnoxious with its back-to-back Energy Burst. The Magnetic Blast nerf does not seem necessary to me as it isn't endlessly spammable if you want to keep heat in check. That being said, it's the spec's main filler ability, which means its a pretty significant nerf to the class's sustained damage, and APPT's sustained damage isn't great to being with. Same goes for nerfing the bonus damage dealt to bleeding targets, which even though it's 2% less, that's 2% each ability, over the course of several minutes in most PvE fights, which is just a nerf overkill in my opinion.

 

 

 

Pyrotech Changes

Both of these nerfs seem pretty unnecessary to me, and I'm curious what the reasoning behind them is. Pryotech damage is about average right now according to one metric (parsely stat bar graph), and nerfing an average spec doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

 

Madness Sorc new tactical

 

 

I can see its uses for Heroics and that's it. Force Storm is a pretty big force sink for madness, since the spec's force regen comes primarily from Force Lightning spam, for pretty average AoE damage and occasional stun on trash. It's just okay, and I and several others here have mentioned going back to the Slow Mercy tactical, which allowed for some Demolish spreading. I guessed that Slow Mercy was removed due to Force Slow being moved to Sins only in 7.0, however, if the concern with Demolish spread is that it would be too much damage, there's always the option of having the spread demolish only last 6s, or give it a damage penalty, etc. From a player's perspective too, spreading Demolish, something that Hatred sins can't reliably do, looks really cool and feels good to do. You still have to set up the demolish spread by using Force Lightning and Death Field, and Demolish still has a long cooldown. Which means it's not that spammable. It would be really interesting to hear a dev take on this.

 

 

 

Hatred Sin changes

 

 

Personally, I like removing Saber Strike from the Two Time Trouble (TTT) tick list. I know, it kills the spec or whatever but hear me out! One thing I noticed when 7.0 dropped, and the removal of certain tacticals was that when Fanged-God Form was removed, it was because if encouraged bad player behavior. I assume that means it encouraged players to spam the same ability over and over and over again. TTT on Hatred and Tempest of Rho on Madness do the exact same thing, and this has been accentuated on Hatred through the sheer brokenness of Maliciousness utility, which heavily encourages Saber Strike spam in order to build a rotation around using Eradicate three times in a rotation, while also buffing Hatred's melee and Eradicate damage by 20%. So, I personally believe that for the Hatred nerf, instead of it being nerfed through TTT (although I believe that the tactical needs a rework alongside Tempest of Rho), it would be through nerfing Maliciousness. With that being said, I'm not entire on board with the rest of the changes.

 

Over the course of the past few years I've played Hatred and Serenity, personally, I really enjoyed the force management aspect to the class, and I was really happy to see that in 7.0 Hungering Force was added as an option for players that didn't like the force management to regen more force each time they lifesteal. I am very happy to see that Hungering Force is getting a buff However, very few people pick that option because it competes with Maliciousness. I understand giving Hatred more force regeneration through Lin technique due to how Saber Strike would do literally nothing now, however, even with just 1 extra force per heal tick on Hungering Force, the spec has more than enough force to consistently use force-expensive abilities like hardcasted Eradicate and Thrash. Buffing base force regeneration for Hatred is overkill, and defeats the purpose of the Hungering Force option entirely, regardless of crit bonus.

 

Buffing Pervasive Force is an interesting decision. I say that due to how Pervasive Force about equal in terms of total damage compared Deadly Field, and the armor penetration makes the spec very strong in PvP. It doesn't seem entirely necessary to me.

 

I am also happy about the Severing Slash buff, it's still a meme pick, but it's a fun to use meme pick in Heroics and big LoS trash encounters in flashpoints.

 

 

 

Marksman Sniper changes

 

 

Ambush hits hard, but it doesn't hit that hard. Even with the autocrit from Laze Target. I like the idea of getting more Laze Targets in an extended fight, however, this is not nearly enough of a buff. Marksman doesn't actually hit targets that often, most abilities only hit once, with the exception of Pen Blasts which hits 5 times. However, Pen Blasts already has a mod that decreases Laze Target's cooldown by 2 seconds each time it hits, so this change doesn't actually provide much of a Laze Target uptime increase. Marksman needs something else in order for the spec to provide at least average damage, which it currently struggles to do. Target Acquired is also a pretty mediocre offensive cooldown, although, it's nice to see it getting another buff.

 

 

That's all from me for now, thanks for reading!

Edited August 31, 2022 by Merkalto
quick clarification

[megawarz]

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

Have you devs tried running R-4 HM? Because all it seems is you cater the people who pvp. Lets talk about AP. Its a single target burst spec. It does big damage. Hatred sins, if you're dps is RNG based on crits, you shouldnt have to worry about force management, and its not like thrash did any damage to begin with. Hell, madness doesnt go below 92% force unless bubbling or off healing people. Marksman got even more rng with the 50% to reduce cooldown on damage for laze target cooldown. IF you're going to do class balance properly, you dont need to nerf the top classes, but instead buff the others. Operative healer, PTs and hatred sins are very handy on IP-CPT.

[sithBracer]

The damage done by the Awakened Flame tactical has been increased by 10%.

Changed Severing Slash to additionally grant damage reduction per target hit.

Redesigned "May Cause Injury" Tactical to grant the AOE version of Discharge more often. It now reads: Gaining a stack of Voltage / Clairvoyance causes your next Discharge / Force Breach to arc to multiple targets.

 

1. when I switched from blade of elements to the awakened flame I lost about 20% dps. This will not cover the dps loss from blade, but even if it does, what is the point? When one tac gives extra damage and another tac gives extra damage, it makes one of them pointless. Can you for once think outside the box and actually make these tacticals worth taking? Make it do something like increase the range of ball lighting and discharge to 30m aside from the DoT? Something other than just "here is a little extra damage".

 

2. No one took severing slash when you gave it to us for free. You think we are going to take this trash ability over shroud/instant whirlwind because it gives us a little DR? Unless the DR is 25% per target and lasts at least 6 seconds, severing slash is worthless and will not be taken. It was a trash ability on day 1. It is a trash ability today. Stop trying to make it work, it's not going to work and you only look like you are out of touch trying.

 

3. What is this tactical for? Why would anyone in their right mind use this garbage over blade of element or double stealth out? If I want an AoE spec, I'll play hatred. Why would I want this tac?

 

These changes are not going to make the class worse by any means, but they are completely useless and ineffective in doing anything. I would rather you take the day off and go to the beach and enjoy yourselves than waste time with these completely useless changes.

[Robonthecob]

I'm a fairly casual player, so perhaps the lack Hatred's current depth is a pain point for long time, higher end players, but returning force management to the spec is not a direction I think to be enjoyable. While the option exists for death field to return force, the talent is a substantial trade off and therefore not a good fix. There is then the problem that thrash is not used rotationally, which it should be in my mind, but nerfing the playstyle by returning a constraint should be avoided. I lack a deep understanding of the mechanics of the spec, and how dramatically saber strike no longer ticking damage will affect performance, but I can say with certainty, that force management itself is not a fun mechanic for hatred, as it is for say corruption. The downtime between short rotational cds being filled with abilities that feel like they do meaningful damage, and/or have meaningful interactions should be a goal, but if saber strike becomes a button which doesn't interact with anything, and is just used as filler to not consume force, the class feels worse to play.

 

My two cents on the other dps nerfs, is they should be avoided. It is always a terrible feeling to play a nerfed spec off the bat, and changes which also negatively impact gameplay for sake of balance should be absolutely avoided, at all costs. With the current spread, it would be better to buff dramatically underperforming dps which just feels much better, and alleviates concerns of losing viability for players already invested in their characters. While there always has to be a bottom, and a top dps, the spread shouldn't be so great that it may be literally impossible for some dps to clear certain content. Furthermore, from what I understand of high end pve, there are already some insane dps checks, that require strange comps, or specific classes to meet, pushing out numerous classes from the realm of v iability. As such, allowing more specs to be viable can only be a good thing, and nerfing some, only a bad thing.

[MuskyBoy]

I would love to know the reasoning behind these nerfs. The AP Pt nerf will gut the spec from high tier endgame, the pyro nerf is stupid because it's single target sustained is only average and of all the dot classes has maybe the worst dot spread in the game (how about make scorch and incedinary spread through flame sweep rather then just incedinary spread from searing wave and having to manually place scorch on different targets?) The nerf to hatred simply breaks the rotation of double death field because it's going to lead to resource issues or make recklessness not proc when it should which already happens with RNG. If you want to nerf just lower the the dot damage increase on death field from 15% to 12% and the sub 30% dot buff from 30% to 20-25%. That should nerf the damage while not breaking the rotation.

[Ruthefordium]

I would like to write about the heals, it's very good that you decided to improve the heals, but it seems to me that this is not enough. It takes 10-15 skills to heal a player (completely), which is a lot. I think it can fix 1.3 gcd, but in this patch having 1.3 gcd is very doubtful, you have low crit at 1.3 gcd. Therefore, I propose to introduce a passive buff on alacrity (+5%), as well as sorcerer in lighting.

[Zamilork]

I would love to know the reasoning behind these nerfs. The AP Pt nerf will gut the spec from high tier endgame, the pyro nerf is stupid because it's single target sustained is only average and of all the dot classes has maybe the worst dot spread in the game (how about make scorch and incedinary spread through flame sweep rather then just incedinary spread from searing wave and having to manually place scorch on different targets?) The nerf to hatred simply breaks the rotation of double death field because it's going to lead to resource issues or make recklessness not proc when it should which already happens with RNG. If you want to nerf just lower the the dot damage increase on death field from 15% to 12% and the sub 30% dot buff from 30% to 20-25%. That should nerf the damage while not breaking the rotation.

 

100% Agreed, Im fine with Hatred being nerfed, but to just break the rotation entirely? Why? for those that dont play hatred, imagine if AP PT's mag blast just didnt proc railshot anymore, Thats sorta what'll happen to Hatred, for those that love it, it will feel awful to play.

 

If you wanted to nerf hatred, thats fine, but PLEASE consider a change that wont break the rotation.

 

But hey we had a good run, 6 months of 30k dps?

 

This is all from somone who plays& enjoys both hatred and deception in HM/NiM content as well as regular gameplay.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Zamilork

[eshreshe]

I like that you're buffing Sorc and merc heals, truly, but these buffs are so one sided that nobody is going to want to bring sorcs along for anything considering how much more Merc is getting and already being in a good place. Bellow I'm including a few ideas for what could both buff the healing and improve quality of life for sorc healers.

 

Redesign Empowered restorer's package:

 

Consuming darkness no longer observes the global cooldown, but cannot be activated without charges of Force surge

 

 

Redesign Polarizing Mod:

 

Polarity Shift increases all healing done by 20% for its duration

 

 

Redesign Force surge and reverse corruptions passives:

 

Force surge: Channeling innervate grants 4 charges of force surge, stacking up to 4 times. Using consuming darkness with force surge consumes all charges, restores 8 additional force per charge, and does not make you weary.

Reverse Corruptions: Force barrier now purges the weary effect caused by consuming darkness. In addition, spending charges of force surge on consuming darkness grants as many charges of Reverse Corruptions stacking up to 4 times, increasing your force regeneration rate by 2 per charge for up to 10 seconds if you are not weary. If you are weary, consuming charges of force surge grants as many charges of Reverse corruptions less a charge for each charge of weary you have, removing that many stacks of weary. Becoming weary while reverse corruptions is active instead removes one charge of reverse corruptions.

 

 

Redesign Endless Barrier Tactical:

 

Resurgence Applies your static barrier to the target. If the target is already under the effect of your static barrier, they are healed for each charge of sustaining darkness and 50% of the remaining absorption, their deionize effect is cleansed, and your static barrier is then reapplied.

 

[ZUHFB]

Love these changes! Only thing missing is the arsenal DPS nerf, that class is pumping

 

Anyway, AP looks interesting. 50% on kolto burst is maybe a bit much, but still fair. The rest... well deleting hatred was a bad idea but besides from that it actually doesn't look too bad.

Edited August 31, 2022 by ZUHFB

[DemonicNarwhal]

100% Agreed, Im fine with Hatred being nerfed, but to just break the rotation entirely? Why? for those that dont play hatred, imagine if AP PT's mag blast just didnt proc railshot anymore, Thats sorta what'll happen to Hatred, for those that love it, it will feel awful to play.

 

If you wanted to nerf hatred, thats fine, but PLEASE consider a change that wont break the rotation.

 

But hey we had a good run, 6 months of 30k dps?

 

This is all from somone who plays& enjoys both hatred and deception in HM/NiM content as well as regular gameplay.

 

I like what this person said and also felt like taking a stab at fixing the issues I see with Hatred:

 

Hatred / Serenity

Changed the Two Time Trouble tactical so that it can no longer tick from Saber Strike damage.

Issue: Changes the core rotation people have gotten used to. People are upset.

Compromise: What if you kept this tactical the same but since you guys are seeing an issue with the Saber Strike ability causing "too much damage on a force generating attack" (I'm assuming) have it on a separate trigger that applies the tactical 30%~25% of the time (down from 50%). People will still complain because its RNG but the tactical for Melee attacks was already RNG based(Outside of assassinate procs) so you're not fundamentally changing anything except you're lessening the chance for a reward on Saber Strikes without turning Saber Strike into a "only use this if you're zero force" ability. Basically people don't want to use thrash because it does almost the same damage as saber strike and costs too much force. Alternatively you could look to reduce the cost of Thrash if you guys are fixated on removing Saber Strike from the spot it's taken from Thrash.

 

Fulguration / Rebounding Force now restores 5 Force when Lightning Charge / Force Technique deals damage, up from 3.

Issue: I think this could be a place where you lower the force cost of thrash instead of implementing this change. If you want us using thrash instead of saber strike, don't be roundabout, SHOW US, Reward us for using the ability you want us to use, even if you have to lower the overall damage a bit of multiple abilities.

 

Increased the damage bonus given by Pervasive Death / Pervasive Balance to Death Field / Force in Balance from 10% to 15%.

Issue: No real problem with this, it's definitely going need to be implemented if proposed changes go live as is. If you take some sort of middle road like what I proposed above, consider just cutting this small increase from the patch altogether.

 

Hungering Force / Longing Force now additionally grants a critical hit damage bonus of 5%.

Issue: None, makes it more competitive with Maliciousness and options are good, good job bioware! (See we can praise you!)

 

Increased lifesteal amount from Severing Slash from 25% to 50%

Issue: I don't really use severing slash much as Hatred currently except when clearing trash, but if you keep making this ability more attractive who knows.

 

Conclusion: I know your team obviously seems to have a problem with us Hatred Sins being rebellious and removing Thrash ability and sticking it on the shelf. However, you've basically hit us with a stick to make us go back to Thrash and removed the core appeal of the Two Time Trouble tactical. Give us a carrot for using Thrash or consider lessening the blow by not removing the trigger on Saber Strike entirely and just making it **LESS LIKELY** than other melee abilities(including your beloved Thrash) to trigger. Most people will still use Saber Strike because it's not a force spender, but it won't be proc'ing Creeping Terror half the time. Sure plenty of smarter people disagree with my solution but this was only an attempt I never promised it was going to be a good one. All I know is what multiple people have said, that R4 requires 5 to 6 DPS already, and hitting some of your best parsing specs with nerfs may not be the play right now unless you're going to accompany these proposed changes with an R4-Balance patch.

Edited August 31, 2022 by DemonicNarwhal

[ecstazypop]

Hi everyone,

 

As Chris wrote in his post, these changes are tentative and we're looking for feedback. I understand that you all may have strong feelings about these, but we are asking if you can explain why you feel a certain way and in addition to that explain what a preferred solution or change would be.

 

Please keep your posts constructive as they help us understand your line of thinking and provides opportunity for your feedback to be reflected in any changes that could be made.

 

Thanks!

Jackie

 

Hello, Jackie,

 

I would like to talk about the changes to the Operative Medicine.

I am a PVP player, and my main focus is on having a balance in PVP between classes. Right now, I feel like most classes/ specs are viable, compared to previous patches where only a spec from a class dominated to the core in PVP. This patch is making PVP enjoyable on most classes, even though, I think some of them should receive a bigger nerf, like Lethality Operative, or Assassin Deception... But those are not important at this point.

I would like to state, that by nerfing Operative Medicine on Nano Mark utility and Kolto Burst, it reduces the survivability from this spec drastically.

 

At this point, Medicine's best survivability coexist in extra healing, while Mercenary Bodyguard in the amount of DCD's and Sorcerer Corruption in the versatility of movement speed. For survivability, while classes are stunned, besides break, Mercenary has reflect, Sorcerer has barrier, Operative has... Nothing... The only strength of the Operative until now was a faster recovery. For Unshakable buff, Sorcerer has polarity shift, Mercenary can spec into energy shield with Unshakable, but Operative needs to do 2 rolls to be able to receive Unshakable.

 

As a PVE change, I totally agree, right now, operative "does too much hps" compared to other 2 healers.

But as a PVP change, I strongly believe this is making the spec unplayable, since you reap the survivability off the table.

 

In Team Ranked the only way to win against operative medicine is to keep the operative stunned all the game. By taking away the healing done, it's going to destroy the spec entirely, since it has literally no other survivability tools rather than evasion and shield probe. Not to mention that evasion is not working while stunned, unlike the other 2 healing classes with "better DCDs"

 

Kindly take this post into consideration and check with developer team.

 

Kind regards,

Ariel

[_Miriya_]

Is this a change that considers PvE and PvP equally?

[Drussy]

Hello there,

In my mind those changes are mostly good in order to make the game more challenging / balanced after both gear upgrade and operation nerfs.

I still don't understand why people are whining about R4 balance when it is decent choice not to include tanks on first boss / only 1 on second boss.

What I am waiting next is to continue the balance in the same way, maybe having a look on Mercenary and Sentinel DPS, not considered in 7.1.1 changes.

[Exly]

This game really doesn't need the upper spec DPS classes nerfed. It needs the lower specs classes raised to match them. Especially like people have said the R4 Ops needs as many DPS as possible, unless your plan is to whittle down the really lower DPS classes so they're unplayable and make people only play the upper tiered ones.

 

I think that you hit the nail on the head with this question. It has seemed obvious for some time now that the devs want players to stop playing burst classes, and that they actually want everyone playing dot speced melee characters.

 

What they should do is just eliminate the specs that they want to keep people from playing and leave the one or two specs that they are trying to get everyone to switch to. Of course that would suck, but at least they could have things their way and that's much more important than trying to do things to make the game fun.

[Deaconik]

Nerfing oper heal is kinda weird, on one hand - yes, the heal is broken, on the other hand - because you made R-4 balance what you made, some fights require strong oper heals, so it may make the fights worse. But it may work out with other healer buffs.

 

Removing a damage reduction from sin tank from the PvE at this point just seems like you want to remove the class TBF that tank needs some love not nerfs and if anything PvP doesn't need more slows and roots but less overall Being slowed or rooted all the time isn't my definition of fun. But I disliked the abilty anyway, so better add something new and remove this one

 

Nerfing pyro PT which is the key ingredient to kill bosses in R-4 is funny, good luck to people who didn't kill any R-4 boss yet and don't have 340 upgrades. (similar applies to AP, but I don't play it so I will skip it - maybe the tactical will fix that, but I don't think it will)

 

Hatred somehow falls into the same category as pyro, but some nerf is probably valid there.

 

Honestly, if anything - you need to balance the fights better if you plan to nerf the key classes in the kills.

 

Also love how you plan to nerf oper dps which is being played only by the most hardcore oper lovers in the PvE

 

Maybe it's finally time to start splitting abilities on PvP and PvE? Like guard?