Cost/reward of differing flashpoints desperately needs to be fixed.

[Royaleor]

Hey there,

 

It's like you are an audience plant! This is something we have been very recently talking about that we want to start spending some time on addressing. Taking content outliers (like Flashpoints that are dramatically longer than others) and working to bring them more in line with each other.

 

If I can hijack the thread slightly we would love to hear your "<insert content> is too <easy / hard / long / short> compared to other content of its type>". And beyond just general feedback about entire content, feel free to get really granular. Bosses that are particularly rough or unfun, travel routes that take too long, etc. This can be your airing of grievances but please be specific so that we can build actionable feedback from it.

 

I wouldn't expect these changes in the super short term (like the next couple updates) as it will take time to audit and start making changes. But it is definitely something we have interest in doing.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

 

In terms of difficulty the droid boss in Korriban Incursion has a very quick enrage timer. From my position as a healer the fight itself it actually really fun and enjoyable with lots going on and a difficult but manageable amount of damage being put out. The only issue is that most groups cant meet the high dps check and die to enrage. I would love to stay in the fight longer but the quick timer feels incredibly punishing.

 

I also have issues with the second boss in Assault on Tython which seems to exist to waste time. The boss mechanics are fine, if a bit easy, but the boss has way more health than it needs. The cycle of killing two easy adds and then beating up on what is essentially a parsing dummy isn't engaging enough to go on as long as it does. I think its ok for this boss to be easier since the other bosses in this FP are more challenging, but the health total is much larger than it should be.

[Rogue_Kitsune]

This is slightly off-topic, but related... A thought I'd like to throw in is, I'd love to see the Renown system re-introduced, updated to give Tech Fragments, Conquest comms, modest amounts of the daily material, and with a chance for small amounts of PvP, FP, or Ops comms (plus maybe some other random stuff like a high level companion gift and some crafting materials). I feel like this might help with the longer FPs some, because them being longer would equal getting more XP, which would mean getting more Renown crates, which, updated like this, would hopefully be fairly worthwhile. But also, I always liked how Galactic Command/Renown let you play anything in the game, and continue to make progress - endgame-specific content should be the quickest and most direct path, of course, but at present, since you only get those materials running that specific content, it feels like there's very little reward for playing much of the rest of the game.

[theJudeAbides]

Hey there,

If I can hijack the thread slightly we would love to hear your "<insert content> is too <easy / hard / long / short> compared to other content of its type>". And beyond just general feedback about entire content, feel free to get really granular. Bosses that are particularly rough or unfun, travel routes that take too long, etc. This can be your airing of grievances but please be specific so that we can build actionable feedback from it.

-eric

 

OK, I'll bite. Be careful what you ask for Musco, you just might get it. Fair warning: This post is going to be LONG.

 

As a little bit of a background on my time and experiences with Flashpoints, some time back in 5.x, I made the decision that I was going to pursue getting all of the Flashpoint achievements. And I mean ALL of them. 25 of each boss, including bonus bosses. And, for the most part, I succeeded. Other than Battle of Rishi, Crisis on Umbara, Traitor Amongst Chiss, Nathema Conspiracy, and now the newer FPs, I got all of them done. And I did it mostly through groupfinder. At the time most of my guildies were on hiatus from the game so I had to make due with pugs. And boy, the pugs I got. There's a quite long thread around here about the weird people you meet in GF... I could probably fill a similar size thread by myself with similar stories. I've been through it, and I'm pretty sure my mental health suffered because of it.

 

So when I talk about these flashpoints, know that this is coming from someone who's ran them AT LEAST 25 times, with great groups, terrible noob groups, and everything in between. As another note, I'm mainly going to be talking about Hard Mode difficulty of these Flashpoints, and not the Solo/Story difficulties.

 

• The Esseles/Black Talon
  
  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • As many people have pointed out, the long drawn out conversations are what mainly make this flashpoint unbearable. For Hard Mode especially, it would be nice to just disable the conversations altogether (this goes really for all FPs, but these two especially). For the Light Side/Dark Side choices, just use whatever alignment that person has chosen for that toon to auto-select their choice, auto-roll the decision, and have the flashpoint play out accordingly
    
  • One final note for Black Talon specifically - There are two different bosses that you can fight based on the LS/DS decision, and each has their own achievements. This means you actually need to run Black Talon 50 (FIFTY) times if you want all the achievements. This is absurd. Why not instead just combine those achievements into one that reads "Kill GXR-5 or Sergeant Boran 1/5/25 Times"?
    

  [*]Boarding Party / The Foundry / Taral V / Maelstrom Prison

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy / Medium (Bonus Boss)
    
  • These are also long, story-driven flashpoints, with a lot of conversations (see above). I do recall the bonus bosses on Boarding Party and Taral V giving some groups fits, which is ok because it's a bonus boss and not required. All the normal bosses are easy enough.
    

  [*]Hammer Station

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • What can I say about this FP that hasn't been said by hundreds of others? It's the most spammed FP for a reason: it's the fastest and easiest FP there is.
    

  [*]Athiss

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • Although not quite as short or easy as Hammer Station, it's still pretty quick and easy. Some of the adds just before the final boss are quite sloggy/damage soaks. Would be nice if you reduced their HP some to make them less annoying to deal with.
    

  [*]Mandalorian Raiders

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • While it's relatively short, I've seen some groups struggle with some of the bosses. The last boss in particular can cause problems when players push the boss before killing the turrets. This is actually a case where I'd like to see the bosses HP INCREASED so that players can AOE without having to worry about pushing the boss to early.
    
  • Another point about achievements here - There are separate achievements for killing the squad-of-4 bosses on both the pub and imp side, meaning that you have to run this FP a total of 50 times, 25 on each faction to get all the achievements. Since the mechanics are exactly the same, why not combine them?
    

  [*]Cademimu

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Easy/Medium
    
  • I feel like this is almost the perfect length FP. I could do with maybe a few less mobs to kill, but other than that the difficulty is about right on this one.
    

  [*]Directive 7

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • There are two annoying things with this FP - the amount of conversations (and their length) there are and the amount of adds you have to fight through. The bosses themselves aren't too bad.
    

  [*]The Battle of Ilum / False Emperor

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • Overall these flashpoints are fairly easy, they're just LONG, with a lot of mobs to kill along the way. A few notes on the bosses I find particularly annoying (not hard, just annoying)
    
    • Gark the Indomitable - Way to many knockbacks/knockdowns with a stun that lasts way to long. Just remove that ability and the fight is much less annoying.
      
    • Darth Serevin - His constant stealthing out is super annoying and does nothing but prolong the fight longer than it needs to be.
      
    • Jindo Krey - This fight is still SUPER buggy, all these years later. In order to pass this fight, you need to ignore the boss and sit and keep firing at his ship until it dies, then kill the boss. Otherwise it bugs out and you can't target his ship and you end up wiping. Please fix that mechanics on this fight already (or remove it if it can't be fixed).
      

  [*]Kaon Under Siege / Lost Island

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • These two are both definitely PUG killers. Unless you get a group of skilled players, you will likely wipe a lot, especially on Lost Island. Complex mechanics have their place and can be fun, but most pugs just don't possess the brainpower/skill to understand these FPs. The Bonus Boss on Lost Island is a lost cause with the vast majority of groups.
    
  • Also, at the end of Kaon Under Siege, there is a bug with the final conversation person appears under the location where's she's supposed to be, and players are unable to join the conversation or progress their mission, resulting in them not getting credit for completing the FP. Please fix this bug already, it's been around for like 9 years now.
    

  [*]Czerka Corporate Labs / Czerka Core Meltdown

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • Remember when these FPs used to be required for the Czerka weekly mission? Peppridge Farms remembers. I actually really like these FPs and think the length is just right, and the bosses are tough, but not overly so. I do think the point about the first boss of Czerka Corporate Labs does have too much HP. I have seen pug groups fall apart because they just don't have the DPS for it, and even with good DPS it's still a slog to get through.
    

  [*]Assault on Tython

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • This can definitely be a pug killer. I've seen a lot of groups struggle with the mechanics on the first boss. Also, the fact there are mobs close enough to the first boss that you can aggro them if you get knocked back in the wrong direction is bad design. If you do manage to get past him, there's also the final boss which can also kill the kill the PUG. The amount of passive damage going out to all players, in combination with the absolute beating the tank takes, means you dang-near need to be a NIM-op healer to get your group through. The final boss definitely needs to have some of his damage toned down.
    

  [*]Korriban Incursion

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • I would argue that, while somewhat easier Tython, this can also be a pug killer. The 2nd boss in particular has a very tight DPS that most pugs simply cannot meet. There's a few options to fix this, and I'd argue the simplest would be to just increase enrage timer, although I think lowering the boss's HP would also be helpful.
    

  [*]Depths of Manaan

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • This is definitely on the harder side of the FPs and I've seen many groups fall apart because they're unable to handle the mechanics or meet the DPS checks, and that's saying nothing of the bonus bosses which most people just cannot handle. Ortuno is usually the culprit for killing PUGs. This fight is especially hard for healers. Even with everyone following the mechanics correctly, there's A LOT of damage going and it can be quite difficult for some healers to keep up. With Stivastin, it's often a matter of the DPS not being able to meet the DPS check.
    

  [*]Legacy of the Rakata

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • I never had too much trouble with this FP. The main thing that most often annoys me with this fight is that, in the Arkous/Darok fight, there is the mechanic where 2 circles go out and if the circles overlap, it causes massive damage. This is all well and fine, except Jakarro can also get the circle, and runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I've seen perfectly good runs get wiped because of Jakarro. Please remove the possiblity for Jakarro to get the circle, and only have it go on to players only, and we'll be cool.
    

  [*]Blood Hunt

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • While there has been some reduction of difficulty on this FP, it's still very much a PUG killer. The first boss is now mostly killable by most groups, which is good. However, the 2nd bosses can still cause problems for many pugs. I think there are two main problems here: the knockback and the amount of damage going out in the final phase. The problem with the knockback is, just prior to it, circles are place on players, who were largely standing in the middle, so they have to spread out to avoid standing in stupid, but in doing so get closer to the edge where it's easier to get knocked off. I'd like to see a longer delay between the circle damage going off and the knockback going out, so that players have a bit more time to reposition and prepare. Also, in the final phase, when both Jos and Valk are down, there's A LOT of damage for the healer to keep up with and most pug healers struggle to keep up.
    
  • Torch can also be a PUG killer too. She does A LOT of passive damage to all players and it can be very hard for some healers to keep up.
    

  [*]Battle of Rishi

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • The first two bosses aren't too bad, but the last boss can be a struggle. There's a lot of mechanics going on here, in combination with having to worry about both adds and the boss. This boss can be VERY overwhelming for PUGs, particularly the DPS and healer.
    
  • Also, can we talk about the bonus boss for a moment here? I've got no problem with a bonus boss that's a bit harder to kill. That's kinda the point, after all. However, I've NEVER gotten a group that was capable of killing this one. Literally never. Nobody even wants to try any more. Please do something about this.
    

  [*]Crisis on Umbara

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard/Insane
    
  • This is definitely pug killer. Most people will just leave as soon as they get this one rather than actually try because they don't want to waste their time. The first boss is part of the problem, as nobody even trys to do it "properly" because the damage is just insane, so everyone employs a cheese strat where they stay towards the back where they can LOS the turrets. This whole fight needs re-tuning. And this isn't even the worst boss in the FP... that belongs to the final boss. Good luck finding a healer who can heal all that damage. I've got healer friends who heal NIM ops who absolutely HATE this FP and actively refuse to do it because of the final boss. This is supposed to be a HM FP, not a NIM Op. Please re-tune the fights accordingly.
    
  • Quick complaint about the 2nd boss - what's the point of having bosses with no aggro table? What exactly is the tank supposed to do during this fight? Twiddle his/her thumbs? Fortunately this is the only fight where the damage isn't super ridiculous, but still, give the damn boss an aggro table.
    

  [*]A Traitor Among the Chiss

  • Length - Absurdly Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • Way. too. many. mobs. You could run an entire Hammer Station in the time it takes you to get to the first boss. Why? Most pugs don't want to bother spending the time.
    
  • In terms of boss difficulty, the 2nd boss is the most frequent culprit for being a PUG killer. With the sheer amount of mechanics and adds spawning during this fight, it just gets overwhelming for all the roles. Scale it back a little, and dial it down.
    

  [*]The Nathema Conspiracy

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard/Insane
    
  • If the pug doesn't disband upon immediately entering this FP (which most do), it's usually the final boss that does them in. There's a lot of damage going out and mechanics/adds to deal with on the Gemini 16 fight that a lot of pugs just can't deal with. This is definitely another fight where you need to scale it down and dial it back a little. Please save NIM-op-level mechanics, damage, and DPS checks for NIM ops. Your average pug just can't cope.
    

  [*]Objective Meridian

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • Each version (pub and imp) have different bosses with different degrees of difficulty. For the pub side, the first boss is usually the pug killer. On the Imp-side, it's the 2nd boss. Lot's of damage, lots of mechanics... I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. The final boss can also be a struggle, as many DPS can fail to meet the DPS check on the final phase of Malgus, and the mechanics on Tao Adair often mean Melee classes just have to stand there while she stand in a circle they can't go in. And if you have 2 melee (which given your current proclivity to making them the best DPS in the game, you most likely will), you're gonna be in for a LONG fight.
    

  [*]Spirit of Vengeance

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • What's up with the first boss of this FP? I've gone in with a guild group in Discord and we struggled to understand why the heck we kept wiping. There was MASSIVE damage going out on the tank that our healer (who heals NIM ops) couldn't keep up with. I think we eventually fluked our way through it, but we don't know how. Either something is bugged or you need to make it easier to understand which mechanic you're failing that causes such damage. I can't imagine trying to do this with a pug.
    

  [*]Secrets of the Enclave

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • I didn't have any problems doing this in a guild group, but I haven't tried it with pugs. At this point I'm usually afraid to try pugging newer FPs because all of the recent FPs have been over-tuned.
    

  [*]Elom

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • We all know that the Malgus fight is the elephant in the room. Fix the fight and make the mechanics less annoying/time-wasting. Any fight where you're just standing around waiting for the boss to finish a mechanic before you can attack again needs a re-think.
    

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

I want you guys to stop and think that ANY of these flashpoints may very well be a person's very first flashpoint. Or second or third. Maybe they get lucky with an easier one. Or maybe they get thrown into Lost Island or Nathema or Traitor Amongst Chiss. Consider that person's experience, especially if that person's only other experience with the game up to that point was the class/solo/story missions. Where all the needed to do was spam some basic attack to defeat literally every enemy they've come across. And now they're supposed to meet a DPS check on the Spider Tank on Umbara?

 

I'm all for varying degrees of difficulty, but something needs to give. I've seen suggestions of splitting up the FPs into different tiers of difficulty, and I don't disagree with that idea. I've also had the idea of giving people a "rank" of sorts for FPs, such that your only start with the more basic/easy FPs, and as you complete them, you will "rank up" to unlock more and more difficult FPs. I'd also like to see better checks in place to make sure people are actually properly geared/leveled for the content they're queuing for. I've seen "tanks" in green DPS queue into Objective Meridian and just get absolutely blasted by the bosses because they're not properly geared.

 

But at the same time, a lot of this comes back to the dumbing down of this game and how easy you've made the solo content. How are players ever to learn how to properly play their classes if they're never presented with any real challenges? How is a player to learn how to properly DPS, use their defensives and other cooldowns, if there's literally no reason to do so? You need to bring back the difficulty this game had when it launched. Bring back Heroic 4s on planets where lowbies actually have to group up to complete it. Teach people how to tank and heal and DPS during their story, so they're prepared when they reach the endgame.

 

And let's discuss your fetish for making players mow through hundreds of mobs in flashpoints. What purpose does this serve? What about this process is supposed to be rewarding? These mobs drop next to nothing, so it's seen as a slog, not as something that's fun. Especially when you have every mob stun, root, and/or knockback the players. If you're going to make players slog through all these enemies, at least have them drop some loot. Like more credits, or possibly currencies (tech frags and/or FP currency). And group them sum*****es up so we can AOE them, don't have them spread all over.

 

I don't know, I've been typing this post all day, and it's time for me to go to bed. Take from this what you will.

[SoonerJBD]

OK, I'll bite. Be careful what you ask for Musco, you just might get it. Fair warning: This post is going to be LONG.

 

As a little bit of a background on my time and experiences with Flashpoints, some time back in 5.x, I made the decision that I was going to pursue getting all of the Flashpoint achievements. And I mean ALL of them. 25 of each boss, including bonus bosses. And, for the most part, I succeeded. Other than Battle of Rishi, Crisis on Umbara, Traitor Amongst Chiss, Nathema Conspiracy, and now the newer FPs, I got all of them done. And I did it mostly through groupfinder. At the time most of my guildies were on hiatus from the game so I had to make due with pugs. And boy, the pugs I got. There's a quite long thread around here about the weird people you meet in GF... I could probably fill a similar size thread by myself with similar stories. I've been through it, and I'm pretty sure my mental health suffered because of it.

 

So when I talk about these flashpoints, know that this is coming from someone who's ran them AT LEAST 25 times, with great groups, terrible noob groups, and everything in between. As another note, I'm mainly going to be talking about Hard Mode difficulty of these Flashpoints, and not the Solo/Story difficulties.

 

• The Esseles/Black Talon
  
  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • As many people have pointed out, the long drawn out conversations are what mainly make this flashpoint unbearable. For Hard Mode especially, it would be nice to just disable the conversations altogether (this goes really for all FPs, but these two especially). For the Light Side/Dark Side choices, just use whatever alignment that person has chosen for that toon to auto-select their choice, auto-roll the decision, and have the flashpoint play out accordingly
    
  • One final note for Black Talon specifically - There are two different bosses that you can fight based on the LS/DS decision, and each has their own achievements. This means you actually need to run Black Talon 50 (FIFTY) times if you want all the achievements. This is absurd. Why not instead just combine those achievements into one that reads "Kill GXR-5 or Sergeant Boran 1/5/25 Times"?
    

  [*]Boarding Party / The Foundry / Taral V / Maelstrom Prison

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy / Medium (Bonus Boss)
    
  • These are also long, story-driven flashpoints, with a lot of conversations (see above). I do recall the bonus bosses on Boarding Party and Taral V giving some groups fits, which is ok because it's a bonus boss and not required. All the normal bosses are easy enough.
    

  [*]Hammer Station

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • What can I say about this FP that hasn't been said by hundreds of others? It's the most spammed FP for a reason: it's the fastest and easiest FP there is.
    

  [*]Athiss

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • Although not quite as short or easy as Hammer Station, it's still pretty quick and easy. Some of the adds just before the final boss are quite sloggy/damage soaks. Would be nice if you reduced their HP some to make them less annoying to deal with.
    

  [*]Mandalorian Raiders

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • While it's relatively short, I've seen some groups struggle with some of the bosses. The last boss in particular can cause problems when players push the boss before killing the turrets. This is actually a case where I'd like to see the bosses HP INCREASED so that players can AOE without having to worry about pushing the boss to early.
    
  • Another point about achievements here - There are separate achievements for killing the squad-of-4 bosses on both the pub and imp side, meaning that you have to run this FP a total of 50 times, 25 on each faction to get all the achievements. Since the mechanics are exactly the same, why not combine them?
    

  [*]Cademimu

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Easy/Medium
    
  • I feel like this is almost the perfect length FP. I could do with maybe a few less mobs to kill, but other than that the difficulty is about right on this one.
    

  [*]Directive 7

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • There are two annoying things with this FP - the amount of conversations (and their length) there are and the amount of adds you have to fight through. The bosses themselves aren't too bad.
    

  [*]The Battle of Ilum / False Emperor

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Easy
    
  • Overall these flashpoints are fairly easy, they're just LONG, with a lot of mobs to kill along the way. A few notes on the bosses I find particularly annoying (not hard, just annoying)
    
    • Gark the Indomitable - Way to many knockbacks/knockdowns with a stun that lasts way to long. Just remove that ability and the fight is much less annoying.
      
    • Darth Serevin - His constant stealthing out is super annoying and does nothing but prolong the fight longer than it needs to be.
      
    • Jindo Krey - This fight is still SUPER buggy, all these years later. In order to pass this fight, you need to ignore the boss and sit and keep firing at his ship until it dies, then kill the boss. Otherwise it bugs out and you can't target his ship and you end up wiping. Please fix that mechanics on this fight already (or remove it if it can't be fixed).
      

  [*]Kaon Under Siege / Lost Island

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • These two are both definitely PUG killers. Unless you get a group of skilled players, you will likely wipe a lot, especially on Lost Island. Complex mechanics have their place and can be fun, but most pugs just don't possess the brainpower/skill to understand these FPs. The Bonus Boss on Lost Island is a lost cause with the vast majority of groups.
    
  • Also, at the end of Kaon Under Siege, there is a bug with the final conversation person appears under the location where's she's supposed to be, and players are unable to join the conversation or progress their mission, resulting in them not getting credit for completing the FP. Please fix this bug already, it's been around for like 9 years now.
    

  [*]Czerka Corporate Labs / Czerka Core Meltdown

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • Remember when these FPs used to be required for the Czerka weekly mission? Peppridge Farms remembers. I actually really like these FPs and think the length is just right, and the bosses are tough, but not overly so. I do think the point about the first boss of Czerka Corporate Labs does have too much HP. I have seen pug groups fall apart because they just don't have the DPS for it, and even with good DPS it's still a slog to get through.
    

  [*]Assault on Tython

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • This can definitely be a pug killer. I've seen a lot of groups struggle with the mechanics on the first boss. Also, the fact there are mobs close enough to the first boss that you can aggro them if you get knocked back in the wrong direction is bad design. If you do manage to get past him, there's also the final boss which can also kill the kill the PUG. The amount of passive damage going out to all players, in combination with the absolute beating the tank takes, means you dang-near need to be a NIM-op healer to get your group through. The final boss definitely needs to have some of his damage toned down.
    

  [*]Korriban Incursion

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • I would argue that, while somewhat easier Tython, this can also be a pug killer. The 2nd boss in particular has a very tight DPS that most pugs simply cannot meet. There's a few options to fix this, and I'd argue the simplest would be to just increase enrage timer, although I think lowering the boss's HP would also be helpful.
    

  [*]Depths of Manaan

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • This is definitely on the harder side of the FPs and I've seen many groups fall apart because they're unable to handle the mechanics or meet the DPS checks, and that's saying nothing of the bonus bosses which most people just cannot handle. Ortuno is usually the culprit for killing PUGs. This fight is especially hard for healers. Even with everyone following the mechanics correctly, there's A LOT of damage going and it can be quite difficult for some healers to keep up. With Stivastin, it's often a matter of the DPS not being able to meet the DPS check.
    

  [*]Legacy of the Rakata

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • I never had too much trouble with this FP. The main thing that most often annoys me with this fight is that, in the Arkous/Darok fight, there is the mechanic where 2 circles go out and if the circles overlap, it causes massive damage. This is all well and fine, except Jakarro can also get the circle, and runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I've seen perfectly good runs get wiped because of Jakarro. Please remove the possiblity for Jakarro to get the circle, and only have it go on to players only, and we'll be cool.
    

  [*]Blood Hunt

  • Length - Short
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • While there has been some reduction of difficulty on this FP, it's still very much a PUG killer. The first boss is now mostly killable by most groups, which is good. However, the 2nd bosses can still cause problems for many pugs. I think there are two main problems here: the knockback and the amount of damage going out in the final phase. The problem with the knockback is, just prior to it, circles are place on players, who were largely standing in the middle, so they have to spread out to avoid standing in stupid, but in doing so get closer to the edge where it's easier to get knocked off. I'd like to see a longer delay between the circle damage going off and the knockback going out, so that players have a bit more time to reposition and prepare. Also, in the final phase, when both Jos and Valk are down, there's A LOT of damage for the healer to keep up with and most pug healers struggle to keep up.
    
  • Torch can also be a PUG killer too. She does A LOT of passive damage to all players and it can be very hard for some healers to keep up.
    

  [*]Battle of Rishi

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • The first two bosses aren't too bad, but the last boss can be a struggle. There's a lot of mechanics going on here, in combination with having to worry about both adds and the boss. This boss can be VERY overwhelming for PUGs, particularly the DPS and healer.
    
  • Also, can we talk about the bonus boss for a moment here? I've got no problem with a bonus boss that's a bit harder to kill. That's kinda the point, after all. However, I've NEVER gotten a group that was capable of killing this one. Literally never. Nobody even wants to try any more. Please do something about this.
    

  [*]Crisis on Umbara

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard/Insane
    
  • This is definitely pug killer. Most people will just leave as soon as they get this one rather than actually try because they don't want to waste their time. The first boss is part of the problem, as nobody even trys to do it "properly" because the damage is just insane, so everyone employs a cheese strat where they stay towards the back where they can LOS the turrets. This whole fight needs re-tuning. And this isn't even the worst boss in the FP... that belongs to the final boss. Good luck finding a healer who can heal all that damage. I've got healer friends who heal NIM ops who absolutely HATE this FP and actively refuse to do it because of the final boss. This is supposed to be a HM FP, not a NIM Op. Please re-tune the fights accordingly.
    
  • Quick complaint about the 2nd boss - what's the point of having bosses with no aggro table? What exactly is the tank supposed to do during this fight? Twiddle his/her thumbs? Fortunately this is the only fight where the damage isn't super ridiculous, but still, give the damn boss an aggro table.
    

  [*]A Traitor Among the Chiss

  • Length - Absurdly Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • Way. too. many. mobs. You could run an entire Hammer Station in the time it takes you to get to the first boss. Why? Most pugs don't want to bother spending the time.
    
  • In terms of boss difficulty, the 2nd boss is the most frequent culprit for being a PUG killer. With the sheer amount of mechanics and adds spawning during this fight, it just gets overwhelming for all the roles. Scale it back a little, and dial it down.
    

  [*]The Nathema Conspiracy

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Hard/Insane
    
  • If the pug doesn't disband upon immediately entering this FP (which most do), it's usually the final boss that does them in. There's a lot of damage going out and mechanics/adds to deal with on the Gemini 16 fight that a lot of pugs just can't deal with. This is definitely another fight where you need to scale it down and dial it back a little. Please save NIM-op-level mechanics, damage, and DPS checks for NIM ops. Your average pug just can't cope.
    

  [*]Objective Meridian

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Hard
    
  • Each version (pub and imp) have different bosses with different degrees of difficulty. For the pub side, the first boss is usually the pug killer. On the Imp-side, it's the 2nd boss. Lot's of damage, lots of mechanics... I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. The final boss can also be a struggle, as many DPS can fail to meet the DPS check on the final phase of Malgus, and the mechanics on Tao Adair often mean Melee classes just have to stand there while she stand in a circle they can't go in. And if you have 2 melee (which given your current proclivity to making them the best DPS in the game, you most likely will), you're gonna be in for a LONG fight.
    

  [*]Spirit of Vengeance

  • Length - Long
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • What's up with the first boss of this FP? I've gone in with a guild group in Discord and we struggled to understand why the heck we kept wiping. There was MASSIVE damage going out on the tank that our healer (who heals NIM ops) couldn't keep up with. I think we eventually fluked our way through it, but we don't know how. Either something is bugged or you need to make it easier to understand which mechanic you're failing that causes such damage. I can't imagine trying to do this with a pug.
    

  [*]Secrets of the Enclave

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium
    
  • I didn't have any problems doing this in a guild group, but I haven't tried it with pugs. At this point I'm usually afraid to try pugging newer FPs because all of the recent FPs have been over-tuned.
    

  [*]Elom

  • Length - Medium
    
  • Difficulty - Medium/Hard
    
  • We all know that the Malgus fight is the elephant in the room. Fix the fight and make the mechanics less annoying/time-wasting. Any fight where you're just standing around waiting for the boss to finish a mechanic before you can attack again needs a re-think.
    

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

I want you guys to stop and think that ANY of these flashpoints may very well be a person's very first flashpoint. Or second or third. Maybe they get lucky with an easier one. Or maybe they get thrown into Lost Island or Nathema or Traitor Amongst Chiss. Consider that person's experience, especially if that person's only other experience with the game up to that point was the class/solo/story missions. Where all the needed to do was spam some basic attack to defeat literally every enemy they've come across. And now they're supposed to meet a DPS check on the Spider Tank on Umbara?

 

I'm all for varying degrees of difficulty, but something needs to give. I've seen suggestions of splitting up the FPs into different tiers of difficulty, and I don't disagree with that idea. I've also had the idea of giving people a "rank" of sorts for FPs, such that your only start with the more basic/easy FPs, and as you complete them, you will "rank up" to unlock more and more difficult FPs. I'd also like to see better checks in place to make sure people are actually properly geared/leveled for the content they're queuing for. I've seen "tanks" in green DPS queue into Objective Meridian and just get absolutely blasted by the bosses because they're not properly geared.

 

But at the same time, a lot of this comes back to the dumbing down of this game and how easy you've made the solo content. How are players ever to learn how to properly play their classes if they're never presented with any real challenges? How is a player to learn how to properly DPS, use their defensives and other cooldowns, if there's literally no reason to do so? You need to bring back the difficulty this game had when it launched. Bring back Heroic 4s on planets where lowbies actually have to group up to complete it. Teach people how to tank and heal and DPS during their story, so they're prepared when they reach the endgame.

 

And let's discuss your fetish for making players mow through hundreds of mobs in flashpoints. What purpose does this serve? What about this process is supposed to be rewarding? These mobs drop next to nothing, so it's seen as a slog, not as something that's fun. Especially when you have every mob stun, root, and/or knockback the players. If you're going to make players slog through all these enemies, at least have them drop some loot. Like more credits, or possibly currencies (tech frags and/or FP currency). And group them sum*****es up so we can AOE them, don't have them spread all over.

 

I don't know, I've been typing this post all day, and it's time for me to go to bed. Take from this what you will.

 

This is *chef’s kiss*

[SoonerJBD]

Hey there,

 

It's like you are an audience plant! This is something we have been very recently talking about that we want to start spending some time on addressing. Taking content outliers (like Flashpoints that are dramatically longer than others) and working to bring them more in line with each other.

 

If I can hijack the thread slightly we would love to hear your "<insert content> is too <easy / hard / long / short> compared to other content of its type>". And beyond just general feedback about entire content, feel free to get really granular. Bosses that are particularly rough or unfun, travel routes that take too long, etc. This can be your airing of grievances but please be specific so that we can build actionable feedback from it.

 

I wouldn't expect these changes in the super short term (like the next couple updates) as it will take time to audit and start making changes. But it is definitely something we have interest in doing.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

It feels nice to be seen.

 

I think TheJudeAbides covered most of the issues for master mode. I will throw in some thoughts for SM because I frankly run them more but some of the same issues persist. I will say I have recently noticed some changes to the tuning on SM flashpoints that have made certain ones a lot easier than they used to be. Spirit of Vengeance is a good example. The trash mobs are nigh endless, but they go down to AOE reasonably quickly now.

 

Most of the SM flashpoints are tuned pretty well. I would put the following FPs into the “minimal or no issues” category:

- Hammer Station

- Athiss

- Kuat Drive Yards (please put this back in Group Finder. It was fun and the fact that you could get different variations added some cool aspects)

- Mandalorian Raiders

- Battle of Ilum

- False Emperor (number of trash mobs could be cut down as it makes this one a bit longer than it needs to be)

- Assault on Tython (It has been tuned down. Trash mobs used to hit too hard and cause problems in SM)

- Korriban Incursion (Ditto. The recent tuning down has made this one less of a burden)

- Czerka Corporate Labs

- Blood Hunt (Another one where groups used to wipe a lot but tuning changes have made it better)

- The Foundry

- The Red Reaper

- Cademimu

- Boarding Party

- Taral V

- Battle of Rishi

The only major issue for me with some of these is length. Some simply take a bit longer than others, but none of them are so outrageous that I am going to consider quitting when they pop.

 

This next tier are SM flashpoints that are mostly OK but have a tougher mechanic that makes them a bit more difficult than the first tier and worthy of additional rewards:

- Maelstrom Prison (Two bosses have mechanics that seem to mess up SM GF groups even though they aren’t really that hard if you listen to those who know the fight. Colonel Daksh’s laser optical phase still gets people killed because they can’t figure out how to kite around the boxes. Not that hard, but when GF groups are doing SM flashpoints, players just Leroy Jenkins and ignore mechanics. Can’t do that here. Similar issue with Grand Moff Kilran’s snipe).

- Czerka Core Meltdown (The Vrblther fight is usually doable even if someone is being dumb. Dunceclaw is not. Getting GF groups to listen and follow the mechanics on this one can be a struggle. This fight causes a lot of wipes because someone in the group had aggro and won’t go stand on the barrels even when you are screaming at them in chat).

 

Take these out of Group Finder entirely:

- The Esseles/Black Talon (Esseles feels worse to me, but both have the same essential problem. When you are running these in group finder and one or more people don’t want to spacebar, things are going to get ugly and someone is going to get vote kicked. I just don’t think these belong in group finder. You can solo them with a companion in story mode. Their only purpose is to make players hate each other over whether or not to spacebar. Stop forcing people who are trying to farm gear to run these. It is torture).

 

This tier are fun in my opinion, but people often quit because they take significantly longer than the FPs already mentioned. Give some more rewards and people might hang around more:

- Secrets of the Enclave (too many trash mobs)

- Directive 7 (Most of the problem here is the amount of dialogue. It is excessive and this causes similar issues as Esseles/Black Talon).

- Legacy of the Rakata (This just follows the trend of some of the newer FPs that have too many unskippable trash mobs)

- Kaon Under Siege (So many trash mobs. I love the Turret fight, and the unique mobs here are fun, but it is just so much longer than FPs like Cademimu or Czerka Corporate Labs etc.)

- Lost Island (Same issue as Kaon. I truly like running this one in SM, but I could run Hammer Station three or four times and get triple the rewards for the same time investment).

- Spirit of Vengeance (The bosses seem to have a ton of HP compared to other SM flashpoints. I have noticed the unending waves of unskippable trash mobs at least go down faster lately, but it is still too much).

- Depths of Manaan (This is another one with fun boss fights that I personally like to run, but it is way longer than others and the bosses seem to have too much HP).

 

Too long/Didn’t Run. These take forever and a day.

- A Traitor Among the Chiss (I don’t think this one is especially difficult from a mechanics standpoint. It’s just that it isn’t worth running if there isn’t a stealth toon in the group who can skip you to the first boss. The entire trip to the first boss is unending and unsatisfying in the extreme. I think it creates the perception that this one is hard merely because so few people stick around to run it that it seems like it’s always the first run for at least half the group).

- Objective Meridian (Now we are getting to the ones I simply refuse to run. I’ve run this once or twice. Never again. It takes forever. Because so many people feel the same, when you actually do try to run it, no one seems to remember the mechanics. I think this one needs to be removed from group finder entirely unless it can be significantly reworked to put its run time more in line with other SM flashpoints).

 

You can’t make me do these no matter how hard you try:

- Ruins of Nul (To be fair, I haven’t run this since the latest patches, and if the Malgus bug is fixed, it wouldn’t be that bad. I am still angry beyond measure that this was released in a virtually unplayable state).

- Crisis on Umbara (This one is at least doable, but nobody ever knows the mechanics, and it takes forever).

- The Nathema Conspiracy (I think I have successfully completed this through group finder exactly once. The last three times I tried it, the group got stuck and disbanded at the Gemini 16 fight despite my efforts to explain the mechanics. The mechanics on all the boss fights in this one are overtuned for SM, but Gemini 16 in particular usually ends the experience because GF groups just can’t get it done).

Edited August 9, 2022 by SoonerJBD

[Xhuuyaa]

The Nathema Conspiracy

 

I don't get it - imo its one of the less harder ones, it was nerfed twice now.

Once you explained the right tactics you should instantly see your group improving. The only annoying thing is that the Gemini clones can sometimes shot through the core/walls so breaking LoS does'nt work. But thats all.

In Vet Mode the FP is a joke because there were 8 or 9 Kolto stations, its hard to miss them if you just move.

 

There are way more harder bosses - 2nd Boss on Chiss, imo hardest FP Boss in all MM FPs. Or some hidden bosses like Rishi bonus or the Chiss bonus boss.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Xhuuyaa

[JakRoanin]

I wish the Star Fortress Heroic had a SM version in addition to VET. Solo FPs need more love. I am not saying that they can't be solo'ed, by a lot of players, but it's too tiring for some players with disabilities.

[Rion_Starkiller]

No... No you don't . You were told hundreds of times over that R4 was not a SM ready for pugs. You did nothing about it.

 

Are new raids supposed to be puggable? Usually not -- mostly because a pug won't stay past a couple of wipes. Eventually knowledge will trickle out to everyone. And R4 is not particularly difficult, it just has some new mechanics many have never seen. IMHO, R4 SM is easier than gods and dxun.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rion_Starkiller

[LJ_Gibbs]

Are new raids supposed to be puggable? Usually not -- mostly because a pug won't stay past a couple of wipes. Eventually knowledge will trickle out to everyone. And R4 is not particularly difficult, it just has some new mechanics many have never seen. IMHO, R4 SM is easier than gods and dxun.

 

Story. Story. Story. They claim they are masters of story. Story mode should not need too much knowledge. They have made their "newest story" operation inaccessible to 90% of their player base.

 

Easier than SM Gods and Duxn? lol. Maybe shorter lol. Heck, you have have a degree in rocket science to figure out the puzzle boss before Izax.

[olagatonjedi]

FINAL THOUGHTS

I want you guys to stop and think that ANY of these flashpoints may very well be a person's very first flashpoint. Or second or third. Maybe they get lucky with an easier one. Or maybe they get thrown into Lost Island or Nathema or Traitor Amongst Chiss. Consider that person's experience, especially if that person's only other experience with the game up to that point was the class/solo/story missions. Where all the needed to do was spam some basic attack to defeat literally every enemy they've come across. And now they're supposed to meet a DPS check on the Spider Tank on Umbara?

 

I'm all for varying degrees of difficulty, but something needs to give. I've seen suggestions of splitting up the FPs into different tiers of difficulty, and I don't disagree with that idea. I've also had the idea of giving people a "rank" of sorts for FPs, such that your only start with the more basic/easy FPs, and as you complete them, you will "rank up" to unlock more and more difficult FPs. I'd also like to see better checks in place to make sure people are actually properly geared/leveled for the content they're queuing for. I've seen "tanks" in green DPS queue into Objective Meridian and just get absolutely blasted by the bosses because they're not properly geared.

 

But at the same time, a lot of this comes back to the dumbing down of this game and how easy you've made the solo content. How are players ever to learn how to properly play their classes if they're never presented with any real challenges? How is a player to learn how to properly DPS, use their defensives and other cooldowns, if there's literally no reason to do so? You need to bring back the difficulty this game had when it launched. Bring back Heroic 4s on planets where lowbies actually have to group up to complete it. Teach people how to tank and heal and DPS during their story, so they're prepared when they reach the endgame.

 

And let's discuss your fetish for making players mow through hundreds of mobs in flashpoints. What purpose does this serve? What about this process is supposed to be rewarding? These mobs drop next to nothing, so it's seen as a slog, not as something that's fun. Especially when you have every mob stun, root, and/or knockback the players. If you're going to make players slog through all these enemies, at least have them drop some loot. Like more credits, or possibly currencies (tech frags and/or FP currency). And group them sum*****es up so we can AOE them, don't have them spread all over.

 

I don't know, I've been typing this post all day, and it's time for me to go to bed. Take from this what you will.

I appreciate your well detailed list. I have a relatively large amount of experience in each and every one of these flashpoints on Master Mode, specifically, and felt the need to comment on your final thoughts.

 

I think an FP ranking system may be useful, in theory, but my initial thought is "will the 'capable' people really choose to attempt it?" The reward definitely needs to provide enough incentive, and unfortunately incentive is different for everyone. I'm in fully aug'd 330 legacy gear, so getting un-auged 330 gear for all my toons isn't worthwhile for me. Conquest, credits, and xp can be obtained in much easier ways, so that's not incentive enough either. The harder FPs really need to have a tasty choice of incentives to choose from, imo. FP tiers isn't a horrible idea to implement this, but even then, there will be favorites within each tier. Why not give better loot with each chronological Flashpoint, so the newest few always give better gear? The older FPs can give minor upgrades/benefits (still net positive), but require significantly more runs to equal the same progression in the newer FPs. It provides a viable option for all quality of player, and incentivizes newer content as well.

 

Gear minimums would be a good start, so at least you know your pug team has the tangible criteria met.

 

As for changing content difficulty to force learning of skill, it won't work. People will avoid it. Its been a trend for casual players since the beginning of MMO time syncs. In addition, it will eliminate players who prefer to solo (for their own valid reasons). A note about the adds, and spread out positioning - these present opportunities along the way to the boss to utilize your dcds, learn about the class, and more recently get exposed to the upcoming mechanics of the boss. The opportunities are there, but players still decline to learn from them. I do agree that some FPs could use a reduction in adds.

[SoonerJBD]

I don't get it - imo its one of the less harder ones, it was nerfed twice now.

Once you explained the right tactics you should instantly see your group improving. The only annoying thing is that the Gemini clones can sometimes shot through the core/walls so breaking LoS does'nt work. But thats all.

In Vet Mode the FP is a joke because there were 8 or 9 Kolto stations, its hard to miss them if you just move.

 

There are way more harder bosses - 2nd Boss on Chiss, imo hardest FP Boss in all MM FPs. Or some hidden bosses like Rishi bonus or the Chiss bonus boss.

 

I’m not talking about MM. Go back and read my post again. This in reference to the SM versions of the Flashpoints. Nathema in SM using Group Finder is in my experience the worst FP. Part of it is the mentality of those who queue for SM flashpoints. They are so used to just charging in and never wiping that fights with actual mechanics cause problems, and that is compounded in instances people rarely run because they are known for being not worth the effort.

[Dekibra]

I’m not talking about MM. Go back and read my post again. This in reference to the SM versions of the Flashpoints. Nathema in SM using Group Finder is in my experience the worst FP. Part of it is the mentality of those who queue for SM flashpoints. They are so used to just charging in and never wiping that fights with actual mechanics cause problems, and that is compounded in instances people rarely run because they are known for being not worth the effort.

 

SM? You mean veteran FPs, yes?

[JakRoanin]

SM? You mean veteran FPs, yes?

 

I think that's what they mean because I'm pretty sure you can't group for SM. I wish and hope that the Devs throw SM FP's some love with conquest gear rewards. And maybe make SM available for Collicoid War Games, Athis, Mandalorian Boarders etc.

[SoonerJBD]

SM? You mean veteran FPs, yes?

 

Yes, sorry. I mean vet mode.

[JakRoanin]

My issue With Vet SP's like the Star Fortresses is NOT the mechanics. It's the fatigue factor once I get to the final boss my hands are done. I'd love to do VET FP's but GF is horribly mean and rude, and I get too tired.

[VaeVictis]

I am 100% on Flashpoint Achievements and run a weekly group for my guild for the harder FP's. Here are my opinions...

 

Commander Mokan (Battle of Rishi bonus boss) and Commander Rasha (Objective Meridian Imp bonus boss) are the only two bosses we can't carry a newbie through, they require exacting mechanics and dps/heal checks.

 

Commander Mokan has nearly twice the health of any other FP boss. In 6.0 we could down him reliably in 3 cycles, in 7.0 with 330 optimized NiM caliber players it's 5 cycles at minimum which means the healer has to play absolutely perfect down to the GCD.

 

Commander Rasha is far harder than the Pub side counterpart. She's not as hard as Mokan, especially if you cheese it by having the tank /stuck when she switches phases to drop debuff stacks, but I still place her far over any other boss but Mokan.

 

Both these bosses are outliers in that they are far, far harder than the rest of the flashpoint they are in as well.

 

Every other boss we can reliably carry a DPS through though as several people have already mentioned there are several "pug killer" bosses such as the Umbaran spider tank, Nathema last boss, Tython last boss, Korriban second boss, etc Chiss is a joke after the nerfs, we can reliably clear it, including bonus, in less than 20 minutes with a stealth.

 

I would significantly increase the rewards for bonus bosses to encourage pugs to at least try them. It would also be nice if the queue had more visibility such as how many tanks/heals are in queue and how many dps are ahead of you. MM FP's also need their Conquest rewards greatly increased (maybe significant points for downing the bonus bosses) cause the current meta is PvP or bust.

[Darev]

Hey there,

 

It's like you are an audience plant! This is something we have been very recently talking about that we want to start spending some time on addressing. Taking content outliers (like Flashpoints that are dramatically longer than others) and working to bring them more in line with each other.

 

If I can hijack the thread slightly we would love to hear your "<insert content> is too <easy / hard / long / short> compared to other content of its type>". And beyond just general feedback about entire content, feel free to get really granular. Bosses that are particularly rough or unfun, travel routes that take too long, etc. This can be your airing of grievances but please be specific so that we can build actionable feedback from it.

 

I wouldn't expect these changes in the super short term (like the next couple updates) as it will take time to audit and start making changes. But it is definitely something we have interest in doing.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

I may post another response, with more detail, later. or not.

But, my first thought, my "knee-jerk" response (doctor hitting the knee with the rubber hammer to get the automatic jerk of the knee reaction) is the fastest and easiest thing to do is to remove the require that ALL flashpoints be selected to qualify for the daily / conquest group finder missions.

 

When I am not worried about that I limit them to what I have historically had the quickest groups / easiest content.

Athiss

Mando Raiders

Korriban / Tyhon invasions

The two Czerka FP (this one is iffy...I've had many really bad experiences with a couple of the bosses with pugs)

Hammer Station

Cademimu (this is a new addition since the roaming droids were knocked down in difficulty)

Battle of Rishi is 50/50 on if I deselect it or not.

 

That's about it.

 

The only time I'll even include the others is if I absolutely NEED the mission credit...which isn't very often.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Darev

[olagatonjedi]

Eric,

 

I may post another response, with more detail, later. or not.

But, my first thought, my "knee-jerk" response (doctor hitting the knee with the rubber hammer to get the automatic jerk of the knee reaction) is the fastest and easiest thing to do is to remove the require that ALL flashpoints be selected to qualify for the daily / conquest group finder missions.

 

When I am not worried about that I limit them to what I have historically had the quickest groups / easiest content.

Athiss

Mando Raiders

Korriban / Tyhon invasions

The two Czerka FP (this one is iffy...I've had many really bad experiences with a couple of the bosses with pugs)

Hammer Station

Cademimu (this is a new addition since the roaming droids were knocked down in difficulty)

Battle of Rishi is 50/50 on if I deselect it or not.

 

That's about it.

 

The only time I'll even include the others is if I absolutely NEED the mission credit...which isn't very often.

If they remove the "require all" selection, they will need to severely nerf the rewards for the easier ones, such as the ones you mention. Some of us out there still enjoy doing the longer, more difficult FPs, and rely heavily on the "require all" feature to even get others to join. I dont mind removing the require all, but they would need a severe overhaul to the reward distribution.

[Banthabreeder]

Not sure if there is anything that can be done in regards to Master Mode Flashpoint Boss drops but it's rather upsetting to either keep getting the same gear multiple times within a single run or getting a useless Implant drop.

 

MM Flashpoints are so much more difficult than they used to be. Not sure if it's because of the gear specs now as compared to 6.0 but it seems I rarely get to finish a complete run due to others quitting cause the content is too hard or for whatever their reason.

 

MM Flashpoints are so much harder to even get into now than they used to be. It seems if your a DPS player, your lucky if even one pops after being in a que for over an hour or more. Obviously, Tanks and Healers seem to never have to wait since they are the rarity specs needed in order to get a group but DPS gets burned the most with way to long que times or even never.

 

So for example, when there is that occasion where I do get to take down a boss, I'm hoping I get something to replace my green gear with but what do I get? A blue lightsaber. The exact same blue lightsaber I'm already equipped with. Moving onto the next boss and what do I get? Another blue lightsaber. The exact same thing I'm currently using and the exact same thing I just got from the previous boss. Can't tell you how many times this happens over and over. Continuing on to the 3rd boss and what goodie does he drop? A worthless implant. We buy our implants, now called Legendary, from a vendor on the fleet which has our set bonuses attached to them. The blue implants dropped from MM Flashpoint bosses are worthless because they do not have any set bonuses attached to them. I basically call them a boobie prize. So that's 3 pieces of gear that all I can do is deconstruct for a few mats. Yes, I'm aware of the 'complete 2 MM Flashpoints missions and you are guaranteed an upgraded piece of gear' option. However, if you can't even get into a group much less finish a complete MM Flashpoint, that reward never comes to fruition.

 

My point on the gear drops is, it's hard enough to finish or even to get in a MM Flashpoint that it's really unsettling that I walk away with nothing, time and time again, because the RNG gods gives you the same thing over and over or you get a worthless implant for all the time and effort I put in.

 

Please eliminate all implant drops from the bosses and add the same guaranteed drop feature/function to each boss like you are able to do with the complete 2 MM fps mission.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Banthabreeder

[Darev]

If they remove the "require all" selection, they will need to severely nerf the rewards for the easier ones, such as the ones you mention. Some of us out there still enjoy doing the longer, more difficult FPs, and rely heavily on the "require all" feature to even get others to join. I dont mind removing the require all, but they would need a severe overhaul to the reward distribution.

 

Why is your first reaction to my suggestion to have the devs "nerf" the rewards?

 

Why not leave those rewards alone, they honestly aren't that much to begin with, I've found the number of FP-1's dropped to be underwhelming. I get more from deconstructing the green drops.

 

Rather ask them, since they're looking at this anyway, to increase the rewards for the longer / more involved flashpoints.

 

I just don't understand that "nerf first" mentality.

[olagatonjedi]

Why is your first reaction to my suggestion to have the devs "nerf" the rewards?

 

Why not leave those rewards alone, they honestly aren't that much to begin with, I've found the number of FP-1's dropped to be underwhelming. I get more from deconstructing the green drops.

 

Rather ask them, since they're looking at this anyway, to increase the rewards for the longer / more involved flashpoints.

 

I just don't understand that "nerf first" mentality.

Sorry, let me restate. They need a relative nerf/change that allows the harder FPs to still draw players.

[Darev]

Sorry, let me restate. They need a relative nerf/change that allows the harder FPs to still draw players.

 

Which is why you need to INCREASE the incentive for players to do the ones NOT on my list (using my list as an example, not the end all be all of accuracy).

 

Nerfing the rewards from the faster ones and keeping the rewards for the other ones will only irritate players by "forcing" them to do the ones they don't enjoy.

 

Raising the rewards for them, may pull some of them into them naturally due to the increased rewards.

[SoonerJBD]

Eric,

 

I may post another response, with more detail, later. or not.

But, my first thought, my "knee-jerk" response (doctor hitting the knee with the rubber hammer to get the automatic jerk of the knee reaction) is the fastest and easiest thing to do is to remove the require that ALL flashpoints be selected to qualify for the daily / conquest group finder missions.

 

When I am not worried about that I limit them to what I have historically had the quickest groups / easiest content.

Athiss

Mando Raiders

Korriban / Tyhon invasions

The two Czerka FP (this one is iffy...I've had many really bad experiences with a couple of the bosses with pugs)

Hammer Station

Cademimu (this is a new addition since the roaming droids were knocked down in difficulty)

Battle of Rishi is 50/50 on if I deselect it or not.

 

That's about it.

 

The only time I'll even include the others is if I absolutely NEED the mission credit...which isn't very often.

 

This will just lead to the same “Spammer Sation” problem that plagued 6.0. I don’t mind doing more difficult FPs, and it can get incredibly boring running HS over and over. We just need the rewards for the longer ones to scale such that the time investment matches the reward.

[olagatonjedi]

Which is why you need to INCREASE the incentive for players to do the ones NOT on my list (using my list as an example, not the end all be all of accuracy).

 

Nerfing the rewards from the faster ones and keeping the rewards for the other ones will only irritate players by "forcing" them to do the ones they don't enjoy.

 

Raising the rewards for them, may pull some of them into them naturally due to the increased rewards.

I feel that you're assuming the current rewards for the effort for those flashpoints is ideal or balanced. This may not be the case, at least imo it's not. A nerf very well may be merited. It should be understood that even the hardest FP rewards will have a ceiling, since they likely won't allow the rewards to outshine (or equal) what R4 VM provides.

[OlBuzzard]

I've been running several different FP's. Across the board I've noticed the following (compared to some of the comments already provided).

** FP's are unquestionably longer to run. IMO they are designed and intended to be. So that part does not bother me at all. I EXPECT to invest more time in this sort of task.

** FP's do not reward the same as even "Dailies or Heroics". They just don't.

** Elitist comments are still well ... elitists. Frankly I don't need that sort of nonsense.

** Whether solo or in groups there are varying degrees of "difficulties". What is difficult for someone may (or may not) be that difficult for someone else. IMO a "part of this" is subjective.

** The whole "caping" issue is partly at the heart of the difficulty (and or cause) for dragging out the amount of time invested into these FP's. IMO DWHO has been doing a rather impressive job on this subject and seems to have a good handle on what's really going on.

** Bottom line (to me at least) ... for the amount of time spent doing FP's ... the rewards are waaaay too little to even have a desire to mess with them (regardless of whether solo or group).

** Placing certain "drops" only in certain areas for certain people to receive is a reflection of another problem. Frankly no amount of time, discussion or presentation of valid arguments is going to change the mindset (or attitude) of those who are making those kinds of decisions.

** Either receiving rewards from FP's measure up to the rest of the game ... or they don't.

 

edit: BTW... I have YET to run "Spammer Station" !!! :eek: (Mostly due to all of the negative crap I read here!)

Edited August 12, 2022 by OlBuzzard