ban ranked players from casual warzones

[Nickodemous]

This whole concept is dumb!

[Zarthorn]

Serious question. What makes a player a ranked player.

 

The flair? The flags? The title?

 

Some people have only played 10 ranked games. Some people only play ranked. How do you tell the difference?

 

Caus I can tell you right now. Almost all of those titles can be achieved with 10 ranked games played.

 

they never set foot in any pvp mode without a group on voice.

 

a typical deathball zerg are dumb, you can typically avoid them and play the objective while they neckbeard for kill farming since there's several exits

 

An organized "ranked" group, can keep playing the objective while also camping the spawn because they're organized and talk to each other constantly on voice.

[septru]

they never set foot in any pvp mode without a group on voice.

 

Did you actually just say that anyone that talks in voice, is a ranked player?

Edited July 11, 2022 by septru

[Zarthorn]

Did you actually just say that anyone that talks in voice, is a ranked player?

 

Nope, I suggested the likelihood is much higher, but thanks for putting words in my mouth and showing that you're looking to argue entirely in bad faith

[ZUHFB]

An organized "ranked" group, can keep playing the objective while also camping the spawn because they're organized and talk to each other constantly on voice.

 

Doesn't take much to do that though, if you are in a 4 premade it doesn't really matter if you have voice or not, the other players don't even have keyboards.

[Beyrahl]

The dishonesty in this thread is just sad.

 

Plenty of people play solo and get accused of being in a premade, this just isn't ok.

While they don't care, you are going out of your way to immediately make an assumption as to why you're getting blasted.

 

Not that you could be doing something wrong, which by the way the list of things you can mess up in 8v8 is higher than the average game. However, that more so has a larger impact on yourself than your team. This is part of why I enjoy 8v8 a bit more than 4v4 unless it's a trinity match.

 

For example, you can easily lose track and attention to what's going on around you, is your team there? Did they rotate and you stayed behind? Are most of your team stealth classes? This will put you at a disadvantage because there's less for them to target. Do you know your defensives, do you use medpacs?

 

Regardless yes, there are problems with matchmaking and I can't really say there's a solution. Nearly everything you could recommend would make someone unhappy or be exploited somehow.

 

An example of this is current matchmaking - it tries to pair tank and healer versus each other. Nearly at a 1:1 ratio, however, the match-making system will accept ANYONE if a healer or a tank declines or leaves the match. This can easily be abused intentionally and unintentionally. Which just sucks. In any world, someone wants to queue for PvP but someone goes AFK in the group or isn't wanting to do PvP but still wants to be in the group whether it's for dailies or whatever else. You find yourself in a position of that person missing or declining the pop, immediately putting your team at a disadvantage.

 

No fix for this outside of removing the ability to leave the queue, which for ranked I feel should be a thing. This is a rather drastic one too, one I don't really agree with. I would rather see heavier restrictions on tanks per match, there really isn't much need for more than one per team unless it's coordinated like a premade queue where two tanks would be greatly useful. Then loosen up on the healer restriction by at least +1 to whatever it currently is in case a healer leaves and or isn't healing. Because that's a thing for both tank/healer at the moment.

 

The last thing I want to add is that if people want more competitive regular warzones they should give us a reason to go out of the way to win. Getting a victory screen just isn't enough for most players that have 1k+ games. If you want to play to win there are a lot of you out there, to be honest, I would recommend becoming a group.

Just one person pugging warzones wanting to play the objective is probably the biggest masochist thing you can do in this game. There are way too many reasons someone may not be able to do what you expect them to do than you realize.

 

Once you're a group though do keep in mind the value of a guard as a tank and a healer. This will help support your team and often are a larger impact on the match than any objective player as it allows area control if they're good.

The idea I would want to ship is giving us a seasonal thing like during the summer or winter. Many want solo queue 8v8, why not give us a seasonal ranked 8v8 solo queue? This would give players a chance to play it more competitively and give players a chance to farm ranked tokens without having to dip their toes into "real" ranked. As each individual player's impact is at least doubled.

 

Not concerned about rewards but rather something cool reusing something we used to have with the solo queue function. Sure, there will be balance issues and that's why I recommend it only be seasonal (short time) so it doesn't die out. This would give those solo queued objective players a place to play and improve and realize those "ranked" players can actually play objective at the same time. Or maybe can't, I can't speak for everyone. There's a lot to this game and to only hard focus on one thing is just silly. While it's not hard, it's more so a learning experience to be open to learning and improving instead of being quick to blame.

[FateSVK]

Serious question. What makes a player a ranked player.

 

The flair? The flags? The title?

 

Some people have only played 10 ranked games. Some people only play ranked. How do you tell the difference?

 

Caus I can tell you right now. Almost all of those titles can be achieved with 10 ranked games played.

 

I was wondering about this myself. Me and my guildies have never done any ranked pvp. None of us have flairs. We don't use voice chat to coordinate. Admittedly we are extremely average in PvP. Yet anytime we make a group larger than 2 players, we absolutely dunk on these forum warriors. I have seen some of these people do 2k dps in 330 gear, stand around without kiting, not using stuns, mezzes or DCDs and then they start raging in the chat over premade? This entire thread is a goddamn joke. L2P.

[Csjbo]

Nope, I suggested the likelihood is much higher, but thanks for putting words in my mouth and showing that you're looking to argue entirely in bad faith

 

I mean

 

a typical deathball zerg are dumb, you can typically avoid them and play the objective while they neckbeard for kill farming since there's several exits

 

Implying ranked players are neckbeards is pretty bad faith.

[CretinUseelad]

I mean

 

 

 

Implying ranked players are neckbeards is pretty bad faith.

 

You don't have to be a ranked player to completely obliterate the average SWTOR player in PVP. These forum whiners are not PVPers. Not in this game and not in any other game. If they were; these posts wouldn't exist in the first place. Its getting worse and worse. You can't play a match without someone whining about objs or people ruining PVP by pvping. Like who are these people seriously? Where did they come from? It has to be little kids right? Zoomers and whatever new generation is growing up. There is no way anyone who is an adult and doesn't live at home extremely sheltered by their parents is complaining in an MMO about people MMOing and PVPing in a PVP mode within an MMO. Played a game last night; we were farming, as usual. Lost the objs and of course solo queueing pug #3567 rages at us in ops chat then goes to rage about, "how we are preventing him from getting his rewards for winning." I said to him I said, "You are in 326 what do you want? Your green warzone crate that has a few stims in it and 3 or 4 tech fragments?" Next match dude is on our team again so I feel free to let him know immediately that he will be receiving another grey warzone crate because we will be pvping but of course he already put me on ignore because snowflake. Our team ends up double capping or w/e somehow but he is for some reason following our group not playing objs. Obviously the other team doublecaps and we lose the objs. The dude begins to rage yet again and my buddy tells him to go guard a node. Its like these people want everyone else to play OBJs then lose their minds when they can't control a bunch of strangers in a video game. You can't make this stuff up.

[Uuno]

If ya'll had been raised right this would never have happened....

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Ranked players are not the problem. Anyone can become a ranked player, all you need is 25k valor and you're good to go.

 

I could be a ranked player, it won't make me a better player, but hey, ranked bragging rights if I want 'em. (Although a potato computer and lousy internet means that I'm not going to bother doing ranked. It would be a miserable experience for everyone but those on the opposing team).

 

The problem is basically the deathmatchers (aka the ones who call themselves 'true pvp players') vs the objective type players. I find arena's and deathmatching boring, I've done the numberfarming route in regs and it felt incredibly boring and pointless to me. You can do 'true pvp' and objectives at the same time, but you rarely see that now, since players who want arena's just practice for those when 8v8 pops.

 

We need a choice between arenas (for the deathmatchers) and 8v8 warzones (for the objective players). Don't give me that garbage about the population not being high enough to split the queues. Giving players more control over the game mode that pops should increase the pvp population, not keep driving it down the way the current system does when a player no longer finds pvp fun.

[ZUHFB]

or people ruining PVP by pvping

 

true and real

[nzologic]

Talk about broad strokes.

Ya'll know that pretty much all of the pvp content creators on youtube are ranked players right? They're literally taking time out of their day to make guides and try to improve the quality of pvp, but hey, screw those guys too amirite?

 

The way some of you guys are complaining you'd think a ranked player walked into your house and slapped your mother or something. Grow up.

Edited July 11, 2022 by nzologic

[Bigfallenstar]

Talk about broad strokes.

Ya'll know that pretty much all of the pvp content creators on youtube are ranked players right? They're literally taking time out of their day to make guides and try to improve the quality of pvp, but hey, screw those guys too amirite?

 

The way some of you guys are complaining you'd think a ranked player walked into your house and slapped your mother or something. Grow up.

 

Ah yes. The busy bodies of youtubers who take time out of their busy schedule to make a 3-15 minute video to repeat the same things ad nauseum. And that makes their concerns more valid than anyone else because...?

 

And to dismiss people with complains as people who needs to grow up.... Way to add to the conversation and support your argument.

[ZUHFB]

Ah yes. The busy bodies of youtubers who take time out of their busy schedule to make a 3-15 minute video to repeat the same things ad nauseum. And that makes their concerns more valid than anyone else because...?

 

And to dismiss people with complains as people who needs to grow up.... Way to add to the conversation and support your argument.

 

Who hurt you? All the PvP content creators, aka Biggs, are ranked players. Banning them from regs would be outright stupid and unfair, they make guides repeating the same thing - and yet you still can't do it, why do you think they are repeating it? Because it's important.

 

You know what the worst thing is? If you have ranked prestige you have those "everybody is bad and a wintrader" persons in regs who will only target you and after they 4v1'd you the say in chat how bad you are. Regs are more toxic than ranked, by far. It's not like being a ranked player changes anything.

 

All content creators want is to educate people why spam clicking nodes has a negative impact on your time and I'd take Shae Vizla over those people any time.

[Bullyabass]

Ranked players are not the problem. Anyone can become a ranked player, all you need is 25k valor and you're good to go.

 

I could be a ranked player, it won't make me a better player, but hey, ranked bragging rights if I want 'em. (Although a potato computer and lousy internet means that I'm not going to bother doing ranked. It would be a miserable experience for everyone but those on the opposing team).

 

The problem is basically the deathmatchers (aka the ones who call themselves 'true pvp players') vs the objective type players. I find arena's and deathmatching boring, I've done the numberfarming route in regs and it felt incredibly boring and pointless to me. You can do 'true pvp' and objectives at the same time, but you rarely see that now, since players who want arena's just practice for those when 8v8 pops.

 

We need a choice between arenas (for the deathmatchers) and 8v8 warzones (for the objective players). Don't give me that garbage about the population not being high enough to split the queues. Giving players more control over the game mode that pops should increase the pvp population, not keep driving it down the way the current system does when a player no longer finds pvp fun.

 

^^^ This

Let the number farmers do their thing and the objective hunters do theirs

 

Talk about broad strokes.

Ya'll know that pretty much all of the pvp content creators on youtube are ranked players right? They're literally taking time out of their day to make guides and try to improve the quality of pvp, but hey, screw those guys too amirite?

 

The way some of you guys are complaining you'd think a ranked player walked into your house and slapped your mother or something. Grow up.

 

^^^ Not this

Why should I care what some random youtuber "creating" the 10 millionth fantasy rotation video thinks? Pretty much every streamer could stop quing for warzones and the only effect would be that the matches would get better.

[ZUHFB]

^^^ Not this

Why should I care what some random youtuber "creating" the 10 millionth fantasy rotation video thinks? Pretty much every streamer could stop quing for warzones and the only effect would be that the matches would get better.

 

You shouldn't? If you don't want to get better nobody is gonna force you to, but everybody will stomp you.

[woganator]

i'm waaaaay too lazy to read every comment, but perhaps as a suggestion is maybe set pvp brackets up based on tiers. unranked = 1-25 valor, ranked tier 1 = 26 - 40, tier 2 ranked 41-60, whatever, something like that; so it's in theory similar experience. any people get queued into those brackets. i realize that's likely not ever going to happen and i even question if it should; but just spitballing here. since you have to have a minimum for ranked, i think it "fair" ish to have a maximum as well.

 

i think i understand what the op is trying to say but it's hard to articulate it. i've been decimated in seconds, globaled, whatever the term is. as i've gotten better at playing it's more of a rare occurrence but every now n then....

 

I also understand the other responses along the lines of "get good." you're only going to get better if you face off against players that are quote unquote "better" at it than you. but if you have 4 people ganking you and shutting you down regardless of dcd's or other abilities, not much you can learn from it; except maybe stay back a bit, try to kite, etc. etc.

[Bullyabass]

You shouldn't? If you don't want to get better nobody is gonna force you to, but everybody will stomp you.

 

If I'm ever attacked by a target dummy I'll rush straight to their tutorials

[Achnaatthree]

I skipped every thing after page 2, I think what needed to be said has already been said. I just want to reply with my version

 

 

I understand what your getting at, but banning , replacing versions who can enter will not solve the situation that you have been placed in. I enjoy PVP, but have never been great at it, but never been bad either . . . till now, I just need more time, bites it's in the way of losing.

things I have seen here, be it GSF or PVP. Groups Queue's seem to be placed with solos queue, unless it's a new group, or just suck, the group will almost always win.

There is literary no match making . so it becomes a "get better", or get used to being a clubbed baby seal, environment .

I know what is my reasons for not grouping, so I in the gotta "get better" area. And doing it without help taking me longer then it used to take.

One thing I have notice, classes are not actually balanced for PvP, that is why you only see a few classes there. learned this by playing different classes. so there is really no casual here

 

If they change any thing, would be limit how many of a specified class that can team up. Let's say it is a 4v4. There can only be 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS, okay your saying that's a operations, yes your correct, but it's a PvP Op. I haven't played Rank, maybe it's there already . Just saying Unrank PvP really shouldn't, Unrank is just a road to playing Rank I guess.

As it is now, it's mostly tanks there

 

Again, this is just how I see it right now.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Achnaatthree

[Raazmir]

If they kill arenas pvp has a chance at coming back there will be an initial dip in population that i suspect would rebound. not enough people like arenas to maintain an arena only pvp format, It's a fact that pvp lost a ton of players when arenas were added though.

[SithHuntingX]

So, I don't think banning ranked players from warzone PvP will fix your issue. Really it just comes down to simply turning off your chat while you're in the match and just playing your style of game.

 

For example, I did some unranked pvp with two other friends. We're not ranked pvpers by any stretch of the imagination, but anyone who looked at us would be hard pressed to tell the difference. We simply played objectives, and had fun doing it. Meanwhile, there was a whole Ranked team (flairs, titles, flags) on the other side. Very coordinated, couldn't care less about playing any objectives, they were just farming kills and padding numbers.

 

Was it a little annoying? Sure, you can say that. Was it wrong? No. If I could group up with my competent pvp friends, why couldn't they? Even told them "Nice premade, I respect it fr fr".

 

Frankly, I believe a good solution to your issue would be just turn your chat off entirely. On dev side of things, I think repurposing pvp chat in warzone instances would be beneficial. Limit some of the trolling being done by disabling /say, /yell, /emote, and I'd argue limiting ranked flags to only ranked arenas cuz it just promotes an unhealthy pvp atmosphere.

 

It's only a minor fix, but ultimately it's on you to stop feeding into those kinds of troll groups; they feed off your reactions.

[Nickodemous]

NO, please! We ban ranked players then I am stuck with just you. Maybe, just maybe, talent in pvp should be respected and not frowned upon by lower level players......hmmmmm.

[omeru]

Ranked players are terrorizing casual pvp players in warzones all the time.

There is no game in which ranked players are not only killing you but the whole fun of the experience as well.

They don't even care about winning, they just want to annoy casual gamers that want to play pvp and have fun.

I played the yavin ruins today and the enemy team (all players with a ranked flair active) just ran over the map killing everyone regardless of the pylons.

We had all 3 pylons until it was impossible that the enemy team could win as long as we only kept one pylon in possession. And even then they just took one pylon. One. Not 3 as they surely were able to.

So we won. Yay... Fun? None!

 

Ban ranked players from casual warzones already and give them their own warzones instead.

 

You know what would be best way to counter it? Learning class you play and learning how to counter other classes. You cant ban someone since he did learn how to play since you are too lazy to learn how to play.

 

Also BW is also lazy like you and they didnt started ranked season yet so ask them to start ranked season and you will see there will be less ranked players in reg matches but i should warn you this doesnt mean you will get farmed by better players if you dont know how to play.

[Bullyabass]

Arena players, especially in premades, spoil warzones because they WANT to spoil warzones

 

It's like having a group of people join an op, boost their fluff damage on random adds but cause endless wipes by ignoring the boss mechanics then when they're called out going "yeah but look at my dmg, learn to PVE, get good". Now imagine you had no way to kick those players or prevent them joining the next op and doing exactly the same thing again the next night. That's the situation in warzones just now.

 

There's a mode for kill farming, arenas. But they prefer warzones because they WANT to spoil the match. It's funny for them. Picking a player and bursting them down to zero in a stun lock is funny for them. And it's even funnier if they do it to the same player again. And again. Throw in some adolescent trash talk and discord squeaky giggling and they've had a perfect night. They've ruined the matches for dozens of other people but that just makes it better. That's the point. They like ruining other peoples matches.

 

A part solution is to create a solo only warzone queue because the most toxic among them won't queue unless it's in a premade because they're mostly really bad warzone pvpers and the full solution would be to add a pvp ignore that can give objective players the ability to remove the most toxic from the matchmaking altogether.