7.1 Balance Changes and Plan

[RussianMafia_XD]

Our beloved game is doomed. The investment to fix it is quite literally an impossible ask for EA and Bioware. At this point id rather see it shut down than continue to suffer.

[joshrva]

The mercenary and engi buffs are very welcome, but the mercenary buffs still leave the class very lacking. I will talk about IO because that is the spec that I have numbers for, but the same is true for Arsenal.

 

The IO buffs are only a slightly less than 500 dps increase (or about 1.8%). This is not enough to bring IO in line with other specs, or even other ranged specs (ranged specs as a whole are underperforming right now - except for viru - but mercenary is by far the worst of the bunch). To bring IO in line and have it be viable in high-end content such as NiM raids, the spec needs about a 10% damage increase from where it currently stands. Here are my suggestions to make that happen:

 

Level 23 tier choice - Incendiary Ignition - instead of removing the 50% chance for incendiary missile to proc combustion gas cylinder, keep it in addition to the damage increase to combustion gas cylinder to targets affected by incendiary missile. In addition, raise the damage increase of combustion gas cylinder from 35% to 50%. These changes would buff IO from where it currently stands (before the changes) by approximately 5%. For comparison, the current damage increase to incendiary ignition would be less than 1% (about 0.7%).

 

Instead of increasing the periodic damage of Serrated Shot by 16%, increase the periodic damage of Serrated Shot, Incendiary Missile, Combustion Gas Cylinder, and Supercharged Burn all by 8%. All of these together would increase the damage output of IO by approximately 3.5% from where it currently stands. For comparison, the current 16% increase to Serrated Shot's periodic damage would be about a 1.1% damage increase.

 

Level 73 Tier choice - Afterburners - replace the "Missile Blast immobilizes the target for X seconds. Direct damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. This effect can only occur once every 8 seconds." part and replace it with "Jet boost grants 2 supercharge stacks." This would help with supercharge stack generation and increase damage, and it would bring back a utility option from 6.0 that is missed by many players, including myself.

 

If all of these suggestions are implemented, the overall damage increase would be close to 10%, which would bring IO in line with other classes.

[Nepthen]

I know this is just the beginning of hopefully a really big balance pass... I would really like to see where these changes are coming from. What are the thoughts from the devs behind these changes? What are they basing this on? I'm assuming they've moved beyond the whole stop watch thing to test DPS... right?

 

All that being said:

1. Concentration nerf probably still isn't going to be enough to knock them off their pedestal of being insanely OP for the level of difficulty associated with the spec. It's a brainless rotation that packs a huge punch and can be adjusted on a whim to deal high ST burst or high AOE burst.

2. Defensive Roll change is dumb. An offensive raid cooldown like Inspiration isn't used to absorb damage... so tying the 30% DR to it just doesn't make any sense to me. Considering most uses of Inspiration are on the pull of a boss fight, where DTPS isn't an issue and it's even more confusing. Did you want to remove it outright but were afraid of pushback so you just stuck it with Inspiration?

3. Combat buffs seem good on paper. I don't play Combat but I know it's in the gutter now and needs to be brought up to a point where it's burst is good enough to take it over Concentration for burst fights.

4. The removal of Defensive Roll from Concentration is also weird... and how it was replaced is bad. Changing the passive to just be a reduction of focus costs makes the passive itself somewhat weak in general. Not a huge deal, just odd.

5. Focus changes are somewhat aligned with Concentration nerfs... probably not enough but needed of course.

6. Gunnery and Assault buffs are desperately needed. Mando and Merc DPS is absolute garbage right now... and any little bit will help. Hopefully these buffs are enough to bring them back to a point where they aren't seen as a handicap in the DPS meters.

7. Dirty Fighting nerf is lame.... it was pretty much the best sustained rDPS spec right now (as it should be...) but I wouldn't consider it OP at all. Why nerf this when there are plenty of other rDPS specs that are in the toilet?

8. Sab buffs... good I guess. I don't play Sab at all but a buff is a buff.

 

Have we ever received word from the devs on where they think DPS should be? What is the ceiling? What is the floor? I'm not sure these initial changes will help the fact that some boss fights themselves are insanely overtuned for DPS checks in Heroic.

 

Can we expect some changes to boss fights? Off the top of my head, I can tell you that HM Styrak from SnV and HM Tanks from EC need nerfs as the DPS checks are way out of whack.

 

My biggest thing is... I just want to know what everything is being compared to and where would the line be?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Nepthen

[OpenSorce]

Mmm, great. Did you folks take a few minutes to add HOTAS (controller) support to GSF or....? Edited June 2, 2022 by OpenSorce

[timovdt]

Is this meant to say: reducing the cost of next Massacre/Blade rush because otherwise...

 

that would be insanely broken lol

[Sounders_Fan]

 

[*]Shard of Mortis - Using Massacre / Blade Rush adds Hyper stacks to you, increasing your critical chance by 25% per stack and increasing the cost of your next Massacre / Blade Rush by 1 rage / focus per stack, up to 3. When you deal damage with another ability, Hyper is removed.

 

Since my Fang God Form was taken away when 7.0 launched and this is a replacement for FGF, do I get this shard of mortis for free?

[Exly]

Since my Fang God Form was taken away when 7.0 launched and this is a replacement for FGF, do I get this shard of mortis for free?

 

Or maybe they could just sell them to us for 1k credits since that's how much they said our old fanged god tacticals were worth.

[Gyronamics]

Arsenal Mercenaries will receive a new Tactical to replace Thermonuclear Fusion

• Unstable Fusion - Activating Supercharged Gas / Cell accelerates heat out from you, dealing elemental damage to up to 8 enemies within 8 meters and applying Heat Signature to them. Targets with Heat Signature are vulnerable to Rail Shot / High Impact Bolt and take additional damage from Heatseeker Missiles / Demolition Round.
  

 

That's a melee tactical for mercenary

 

When the base classes got deleted all the melee attacks got deleted from mercenary and all the 30m attacks (besides default attacks and special abilities) were deleted from powertech.

 

So why does the replacement for Thermonuclear Fusion (a 30m range combo with a 16m AOE) require the mercenary to run into melee range to perform a 16m aoe centred on their character?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Gyronamics

[ForfiniteStories]

Balance is, and always will be, an ongoing process

 

Return the level cap to 50 and keep it there, and stick with a gearing system--perhaps one of your older ones--and it will never have to be an ongoing process.

Edited June 2, 2022 by ForfiniteStories

[soliddew]

Please don't nerf Virulence. It's why I play the game. It's not OP. It's not broken. Balance the other ranged classes UP instead of making us down.

[Faltun]

Engi sniper needs more changes, It has too much burst dmg but the easiest class to outplay. It could trade some burst and mobility for some healing or dcd, even a small heal on cover could help a lot. Almost any class playing smartly can just make fun of any sniper.

 

Also very important to separate the moving boost from the most important def boost (countermeasure). I really don't know why you merge it in 7.0 but we need a dedicated def ability and a dedicated moving boost like in 6.0 era.

 

 

I wrote a post already about it:

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=1005659

Edited June 2, 2022 by Faltun

[SnakeSNMF]

i haven't used this website in years and i actually haven't contributed to much in years, but-- whoever does balancing is baked. why nerf the only decent ranged spec? for that matter, it's not as if its damage is compared to the best specs which are all melee; don't nerf gunslinger/sniper at all, as a matter of fact. buff the other two specs. buff sage/sorc DPS period lmao

 

either way i dropped my sub after reading this so maybe i'll come back if this gets reverted back, but hey. it's just one person, right? not like anything will come of it lol

[codydmaan]

Hi all,

 

[*]Unstable Fusion - Activating Supercharged Gas / Cell accelerates heat out from you, dealing elemental damage to up to 8 enemies within 8 meters and applying Heat Signature to them. Targets with Heat Signature are vulnerable to Rail Shot / High Impact Bolt and take additional damage from Heatseeker Missiles / Demolition Round.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Bro this is a range class and your nerfing it w this tactical making a 30m range class now have to be within 8m since the "heat out of u"

 

Your a poor designer go back to the drawing board learn the classes your supposed to design. This is just Beyond terrible.

 

You a game designer making a melee tactical for a range character like ???? DUDE

 

Your supposed to know how classes are designed and you clearly do not.

 

This is why the game is I'm its worst state it has been since launch. All rhe grownups left and the kids are mismanaging the house.

 

Get someone who actually knows what their doing.

Edited June 2, 2022 by codydmaan

[Floplag]

That's a melee tactical for mercenary

 

When the base classes got deleted all the melee attacks got deleted from mercenary and all the 30m attacks (besides default attacks and special abilities) were deleted from powertech.

 

So why does the replacement for Thermonuclear Fusion (a 30m range combo with a 16m AOE) require the mercenary to run into melee range to perform a 16m aoe centred on their character?

 

A good point, it should be within 8 meters OF TARGET... not just within 8 meters.

[Llacertus]

Coming from a granked perspective, I like most of these changes but I wanna point out a few things.

 

1. Rage doesn't need a damage nerf. The reason people don't play it much in granked is because of its weak survivability and tendency to crumble under pressure. AP PT and Fury mara are some examples of classes that have the same melee pressure as rage jugg while not having any survival problems.

 

2. Carnage doesn't need more rage generation issues. Its rage generation and the fact that perks like "Rush Down", still don't work cripples the classes' damage. Fix Rush Down and bring back the original fanged god form.

 

3. Fury needs a bit harder of a damage nerf honestly. A class with that much stealth and tankiness should not do that much damage.

 

4. A virulence nerf is entirely unnecessary.

 

5. As usual, AP PT is still the most broken class in the game. There needs to be some serious nerfs to that class. Having that much single target and cleave damage on top 15 meter range is just too much. Despite them being broken in the last expansion, you guys decided to buff them again. They are the only class that you guys just refuse to nerf.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Llacertus

[hillerbees]

I'm no expert on any balance stuff but could I just ask that game fixes are prioritised and established before anyone goes messing with balance issues. The fact that augments don't even work in pvp atm makes me wonder why any of this more complicated stuff is even being talked about let alone actioned at this time.

[Gyronamics]

I'm no expert on any balance stuff but could I just ask that game fixes are prioritised and established before anyone goes messing with balance issues. The fact that augments don't even work in pvp atm makes me wonder why any of this more complicated stuff is even being talked about let alone actioned at this time.

 

Augments having no effect in PVP is extremely fair between players even if not intended.

 

Your augments aren't doing anything. Neither are anyone elses. Who is suffering?

 

On the other hand, large disparity in performance between specs exists with or without augments so clearly this changes matters for the better if addressed.

[Araberen]

Like really? Snipers cried for ages that we need roll-heal and we get...viru nerf? Like i don't get it....hly sht how crazy your ignorance.

 

Right now sniper only viable for viru spec in PVE and close-to-non-viable in competative PVP at all. And instead of give us what we need, we get nerf...

[alasamaya]

The more you explain or bring changes, the more we can see how incompetent people in charge are. Lets start. Nerf Snipers? Based on what? Im checking parses, and is virulance is not even top parse. Id say say is right behind Sorcerer. And sorc has far better defensives. They didnt lose Phase Walk -they need to pick between it and Volt rush, which is a totally secondary ability- while sniper has to pick between Ballistic Shield and Phase. Even more, you merged two abilities on one: Evasion and countermessures, based on idk which feedback. EVEN MORE, you removed every single heal from snipers: From roll, ballistic shield and in cover. And you pretend to nerf THE spec that can perform good in PVE? Seriously Bioware? For PVP sniper was already nerfed to hell with the changes I just explained. They have no survival or, at least, way less survival than previous patch, while sorc dont really need to pick between any important DCD.

You guys dont really play the game, right? Give Mercs and AOE that depends on their position? Hello? Merc is a ranged class that has to keep distance, maybe? Or you want the merc to go in the middle of the fight, use supercharge and run away? OH! DONT GET ROOTED! they need to pick between reflect/hydraulics, so if you get rooted you cant run away! (Only ranged class that doesnt have a root breaker btw! )

 

This was really the first expansion since I play the game that gave me depression, to be honest. And every patch after the chaos has been nothing but making the situation worse. :mad:

[alasamaya]

Augments having no effect in PVP is extremely fair between players even if not intended.

 

Your augments aren't doing anything. Neither are anyone elses. Who is suffering?

 

On the other hand, large disparity in performance between specs exists with or without augments so clearly this changes matters for the better if addressed.

 

I agree that if augments dont work, its "fair" for everybody. But if thats the logic, they literally should just remove the augments, but from the game, since will be "Fair" for everybody, including PVE. Ill tell you what is dumb: The fact that you need to calculate the stats you will have in PVP based on your gear that has augments, since we all had to grind PVE- and therefore we are using augments-. That mean subtract the total stats coming from augments, from the stats coming from gear (So the stats wont ever show on fleet what you will have in PVP, unless you keep removing all the augments and crystals for having more certainty about the stats you will have). If that works "fine" for you, I couldnt disagree more. That makes absolutely no sense. And if thats working as "intendeed", isnt it better to separate PVE from PVP gear, right how it was before? Again, the incompetency at best.

Edited June 3, 2022 by alasamaya

[Dyne-]

Coming from a granked perspective, I like most of these changes but I wanna point out a few things.

 

1. Rage doesn't need a damage nerf. The reason people don't play it much in granked is because of its weak survivability and tendency to crumble under pressure. AP PT and Fury mara are some examples of classes that have the same melee pressure as rage jugg while not having any survival problems.

 

2. Carnage doesn't need more rage generation issues. Its rage generation and the fact that perks like "Rush Down", still don't work cripples the classes' damage. Fix Rush Down and bring back the original fanged god form.

 

3. Fury needs a bit harder of a damage nerf honestly. A class with that much stealth and tankiness should not do that much damage.

 

4. A virulence nerf is entirely unnecessary.

 

5. As usual, AP PT is still the most broken class in the game. There needs to be some serious nerfs to that class. Having that much single target and cleave damage on top 15 meter range is just too much. Despite them being broken in the last expansion, you guys decided to buff them again. They are the only class that you guys just refuse to nerf.

 

Hi Chris,

 

I just came here to second this. Frequent balance changes are definitely a welcome sight. The only thing that I would ask is that the dev team exercise extreme caution when nerfing melee effectiveness and buffing ranged dps. Ranged classes are already oppressive in group PvP. Their capability easily outshines melee defensives. Overall I like the changes that you have listed, but you guys might want to clearly define what you want each class to be capable of. This would really help to manage expectations and keep players from complaining until their class is the next 5.0 Merc or Operative.

 

What 7.0 Mercs look like in PvP

[Gyronamics]

Hi Chris,

 

I just came here to second this. Frequent balance changes are definitely a welcome sight. The only thing that I would ask is that the dev team exercise extreme caution when nerfing melee effectiveness and buffing ranged dps. Ranged classes are already oppressive in group PvP. Their capability easily outshines melee defensives. Overall I like the changes that you have listed, but you guys might want to clearly define what you want each class to be capable of. This would really help to manage expectations and keep players from complaining until their class is the next 5.0 Merc or Operative.

 

What 7.0 Mercs look like in PvP

 

You link a video of a guy saying he does better on his marauder but because reg pvp is so full of bad players he can still skill gap those bad players on his arsenal merc and not be bottom of the table

 

Do you see the marauder healing the merc like an idiot in the fight you linked? Why would you link that.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Gyronamics

[theJudeAbides]

From what I can see, Arsenal/Gunnery is still going to be a meme spec becasue you are doing NOTHING to address the key problems with it:

- Terrible Legendaries - They are bad, and everyone knows it. Why you don't at least bring back the Apex set bonuses is idiotic. Or better yet, make new legendaries that are actually good

- ST Tactical - The current BIS tactical (Primed Ignition) turns what is supposed to be a burst spec into dot spec that requires constant attention maintaining procs to avoid losing DPS, and AP, the actual DOT spec, does both more DOT damage and Burst.

- Terrible Tree choices - Commando's STILL have one of the worst choices in the game, having to decide between three CORE, baseline abilities: Stun, Hold the Line, and Echoing Deterrence. All of these abilities need to be returned to commandos as standard abilities, and a new choice implemented.

- DPS is currently 30% below top parsing classes - While you did make some small changes to our DPS/energy management, it is nowhere near close enough to close that gap. Gunnery is currently the bottom of the barrel DPS spec in the entire game, by a WIDE margin. We don't need small DPS buffs, we need MAJOR DPS buffs. I don't see that here.

 

As it stands, Gunnery/Arsenal is completely unviable in HM/NIM raiding, and will likely get you booted out if you try to bring it. It's the laughing stock of PVP and has returned to it's previous role of being the most farmable/focused class there.

 

It's very clear to me that nobody on the Dev team plays this class or understands anything about it. If they did, we would have seen much more major changes, much sooner.

 

As it stands, it's too little, too late. I'm tired of maining a class/spec that's constantly being **** on by the developers. Consider my sub canceled if this is the best you can do.

[Gyronamics]

I agree that if augments dont work, its "fair" for everybody. But if thats the logic, they literally should just remove the augments, but from the game, since will be "Fair" for everybody, including PVE. Ill tell you what is dumb: The fact that you need to calculate the stats you will have in PVP based on your gear that has augments, since we all had to grind PVE- and therefore we are using augments-. That mean subtract the total stats coming from augments, from the stats coming from gear (So the stats wont ever show on fleet what you will have in PVP, unless you keep removing all the augments and crystals for having more certainty about the stats you will have). If that works "fine" for you, I couldnt disagree more. That makes absolutely no sense. And if thats working as "intendeed", isnt it better to separate PVE from PVP gear, right how it was before? Again, the incompetency at best.

 

PVP is against players who will be in the same gear as you.

 

PVE is against fixed health and damage encounters. The fights get harder when the players lose stats because the mobs didn't also lose stats.

 

That's why augments not working in PVP is a neutral balance issue because everyone in the fight is equally worse.

[Dyne-]

You link a video of a guy saying he does better on his marauder but because reg pvp is so full of bad players he can still skill gap those bad players on his arsenal merc and not be bottom of the table

 

Do you see the marauder healing the merc like an idiot in the fight you linked? Why would you link that.

 

The first thing I said was that I like the changes. I think they're a step in the right direction. I linked the video so that the devs would have an accurate picture of what a Merc that's played by someone who doesn't suck looks like. Then they could adjust accordingly.

 

I think you may have misunderstood my intent. I want them to balance the game, just don't go stupid in either direction.

 

Also, he says a bit more than that. Might be worth a listen to the team making the changes imo.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Dyne-