I believe the direction of the game is for a type of players that BW doesn't have

[gidder]

It's so cringe that some of you still believe that the "story player" is who keeps the lights on. The people who keep the lights on are people who sub and, more importantly, people who spend in the Cartel Market. The guy who is on his 50th alt on Tython that he'll quit before he reaches Taris isn't funding the game.

 

Just because you don't raid or do GSF or PvP doesn't mean that the game isn't "for" the people who do. Remember KOTFET? Remember when they went all in on "solo story players"? Remember what happened? The game nearly died because "there is no end game" and "there is nothing to do" and "what is the point of subbing?"

 

As for the story, yeah, it's good, and personally I loved the story of Zakuul and the Emperor, but look at Legacy of the Sith. It's probably the worst story update we have ever received. I mean, it's dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Running around the sterile hallways of Manaan clicking on kolto tanks feels like a level 30 mission I might have done back in 2012.

 

People aren't going to sub for this. They aren't going to stay subbed for this. They aren't going to whale for this.

 

Well I must be an outlier then, because the story is exactly why I sub. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the occasional small group FP or Uprising, but they are most certainly not why I here. But I can tell you this, PVP is also not where the money comes from either. The PVP instances are so dead that I end up doing my dailies and quests there so I'm not fighting anyone for resources. How about those forced PVP zones in the open world? Anytime I see people in there, they completely avoid each other, staying on opposite ends of the map, it funny really.

[doelow]

Well I must be an outlier then, because the story is exactly why I sub. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the occasional small group FP or Uprising, but they are most certainly not why I here. But I can tell you this, PVP is also not where the money comes from either. The PVP instances are so dead that I end up doing my dailies and quests there so I'm not fighting anyone for resources. How about those forced PVP zones in the open world? Anytime I see people in there, they completely avoid each other, staying on opposite ends of the map, it funny really.

 

Don't think there is any dispute that the game has severe issues with development of content and the upkeeping of its various systems. This is to say nothing of the overall performance of the game's engine, which is borderline unacceptable. You just choose to not see reality though: the game nearly died twice due to "all in" on story. At launch and after KOTFE.

 

My real gripe with the story only "this game isn't for you" crowd are this: they accuse PVP'ers, OPs players, GSF, etc of being toxic yet they refuse to see just how toxic they themselves are. What person comes to this game and demands story be removed? What person comes here and says, "Bioware, just stop developing story." Practically no one, because even if we're not "story players", most of us accept that story is, and is going to remain, a big part of this game's development and identity. THAT'S OK.

 

Yet it is the story only solo player who seethes at the idea of needing to win a PvP match in order to obtain a gear or rages at how hard GSF is or complains about Ops or screams about companions being able to only take 59 hits instead of 60 before incapping who is truly toxic. Anything that deviates from their friction-less "story" experience is unacceptable for them. They would rather purge the game from everyone else than admit that they are toxic in any way. They have delusions of grandeur, when really they are just crybabies raging in their dollhouse. If they can't solo an OP with their companion of choice or obtain gear through PvP by simply sitting in base and browing their Outfitter tab then they are unhappy.

 

They are unreasonable, and have never been able to accept that this game is not a single player visual novel, but an MMORPG.

[DakotaDoc]

I have been a subscriber since Beta and played since then. I don't have time to play 8 hours per day. I am a casual gamer that usually gets on only on weekends and even then only for 4 hours. The changes, or I should say destruction of character abilities is very disappointing. Gear set point bonuses gone, cool downs (mostly) gone. Item bonuses (loved them) gone. This game should not be going the direction of other games, this game is popular to certain gamer's because it is not those other games. For the first time since this game launched I have canceled my subscription. I play mostly healer all the time, my healing ability have been slashed in half. I know I am 80 and don't have max gear yet, but this is ridiculous. This game is now more frustration than enjoyment.

 

I am Done!

[cjmarsh]

...

[solo players] are unreasonable, and have never been able to accept that this game is not a single player visual novel, but an MMORPG.

 

It is both and trying to balance the two audiences has been Bioware's dilemma for a decade. Inevitably threads like these pop up where one camp or the other feels that the balance is too far in the other direction.

[DWho]

It is both and trying to balance the two audiences has been Bioware's dilemma for a decade. Inevitably threads like these pop up where one camp or the other feels that the balance is too far in the other direction.

 

Its a small number of players in both camps that are the problem. There are a lot of raiders that think the current restrictive gearing system sucks too. Whitewashing solo players with the statement "solo players are unreasonable" is no more true then implying all group players are unreasonable. There are unreasonable factions on both sides of the coin (and pretty much equal numbers of them). There are actually quite a few "solo" players that believe group content is a key part of any MMO.

[doelow]

Its a small number of players in both camps that are the problem. There are a lot of raiders that think the current restrictive gearing system sucks too. Whitewashing solo players with the statement "solo players are unreasonable" is no more true then implying all group players are unreasonable. There are unreasonable factions on both sides of the coin (and pretty much equal numbers of them). There are actually quite a few "solo" players that believe group content is a key part of any MMO.

 

There are toxic players on both sides, but I feel like this is the only game where I see "story" players claim it as their own. I get that a lot of people want more story. I do too. I love the stories of this game, and the poor quality of LOTS has me worried. I get it. But I would never say that this game "belongs" to me as a story player, or that raiders or PvP players need to take a hike and go play WoW or something. That's just not fair, and it's a denial of what the game is.

 

FFXIV, in my opinion, really proves you can do both great story, and provide an MMORPG experience. The thing is, we're here because we wanna play SWTOR, not WoW or FFXIV or Lost Ark or Everquest or w/e.

[gidder]

Don't think there is any dispute that the game has severe issues with development of content and the upkeeping of its various systems. This is to say nothing of the overall performance of the game's engine, which is borderline unacceptable. You just choose to not see reality though: the game nearly died twice due to "all in" on story. At launch and after KOTFE.

 

My real gripe with the story only "this game isn't for you" crowd are this: they accuse PVP'ers, OPs players, GSF, etc of being toxic yet they refuse to see just how toxic they themselves are. What person comes to this game and demands story be removed? What person comes here and says, "Bioware, just stop developing story." Practically no one, because even if we're not "story players", most of us accept that story is, and is going to remain, a big part of this game's development and identity. THAT'S OK.

 

Yet it is the story only solo player who seethes at the idea of needing to win a PvP match in order to obtain a gear or rages at how hard GSF is or complains about Ops or screams about companions being able to only take 59 hits instead of 60 before incapping who is truly toxic. Anything that deviates from their friction-less "story" experience is unacceptable for them. They would rather purge the game from everyone else than admit that they are toxic in any way. They have delusions of grandeur, when really they are just crybabies raging in their dollhouse. If they can't solo an OP with their companion of choice or obtain gear through PvP by simply sitting in base and browing their Outfitter tab then they are unhappy.

 

They are unreasonable, and have never been able to accept that this game is not a single player visual novel, but an MMORPG.

 

I think that you miss the point of those posts. The issue is that they took things AWAY. Most solo/casual posts I see in the forums it's always the same complaint. Let us ALL play the way we want. We USE to have that. It doesn't delve into a pissing match until someone chimes in with either you don't need X to do the story, or some stupid "get good" type of post, which completely misses the argument.

 

Personally, I don't see a problem with putting certain rewards behind PVP, OPs, whatever. It's always been like that. You can't get certain decorations, achievements without doing them. Gear is a bit different. Sometime even us Solo/Casual players like to run MM FPs or even harder OPs from time to time. But that doesn't mean we should have to grind such content in order to play such content. As a side note I always laugh at how stupid the gearing system is every time I type that out. Try it yourself. "In order to get the gear to be able to do the content, you have to do that same content first" See it's pretty funny.

 

Finally about the issue with KOTFE that you keep touting. To me it isn't the fact that they went all in with story that was the problem. It's that they completely changed the style of the story telling. The truth is KOTFE wasn't a game it was a movie, which catches you off guard the first time you hit it. I remember being bored out of my mind running through it. Not to mention that running sections with a friend was virtually impossible, at the very least very confusing. I appreciate KOTFE more now because I know what I'm getting into, but I can see why it wasn't well received to some.

Edited March 26, 2022 by gidder

[DWho]

Finally about the issue with KOTFE that you keep touting. To me it isn't the fact that they went all in with story that was the problem. It's that they completely changed the style of the story telling. The truth is KOTFE wasn't a game it was a movie, which catches you off guard the first time you hit them. I remember being bored out of my mind running through them. Not to mention that running sections with a friend was virtually impossible, at the very least very confusing. I appreciate KOTFE more now because I know what I'm getting into, but I can see why it wasn't well received to some.

KotFE was actually quite good, it was the delivery system that sucked. I played it both in the chapter a month mode and as one continuous story once it was all released. It was a lot better as a continuous story. Had they released it all as one "story" DLC I think it would have been received a lot better. And as DLCs we could have gotten much higher quality KotET and a real story arc for Traitor instead of the forced "group play" style of the "story flashpoint" - which I think is the biggest mistake ever made in the game since it really makes no one happy. The chapter a month approach had the same problem LoTS has, not enough meat to it.

[Damask_Rose]

It's so cringe that some of you still believe that the "story player" is who keeps the lights on. The people who keep the lights on are people who sub and, more importantly, people who spend in the Cartel Market. The guy who is on his 50th alt on Tython that he'll quit before he reaches Taris isn't funding the game.

 

Just because you don't raid or do GSF or PvP doesn't mean that the game isn't "for" the people who do. Remember KOTFET? Remember when they went all in on "solo story players"? Remember what happened? The game nearly died because "there is no end game" and "there is nothing to do" and "what is the point of subbing?" The game had a huge, HUGE influx of players due to the marketing of KOTFE, and after they ran through the story they left. Sound familiar? Yes, that's because it was a repeat of the game's launch.

 

As for the story, yeah, it's good, and personally I loved the story of Zakuul and the Emperor, but look at Legacy of the Sith. It's probably the worst story update we have ever received. I mean, it's dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Running around the sterile hallways of Manaan clicking on kolto tanks feels like a level 30 mission I might have done back in 2012.

 

People aren't going to sub for this. They aren't going to stay subbed for this. They aren't going to whale for this.

 

Where are you getting the idea that solo/story players don't sub and buy cartel market items from? That's a huge assumption based on absolutely no data. All anyone outside of select Bioware employees can do is base guesses on anecdotal evidence. That guy on his 50th alt which might not pass Taris is probably subbing to keep access to all 50 alts, has a huge collection of cartel items unlocked so he can use everything on his alt army and has pimped out strongholds. Subscribers and whales come from all player types.

 

KotFE had way more problems than just being too story focused. The story itself was problematic and drove a lot of the story players away too. This game needs fresh, strong stories AND decent group content to survive, let alone thrive, and that isn't something we've had since SoR. ALL player types have been getting dry crumbs of content for years now. Players fighting over those crumbs doesn't help anyone.

 

There are toxic players on both sides, but I feel like this is the only game where I see "story" players claim it as their own. I get that a lot of people want more story. I do too. I love the stories of this game, and the poor quality of LOTS has me worried. I get it. But I would never say that this game "belongs" to me as a story player, or that raiders or PvP players need to take a hike and go play WoW or something. That's just not fair, and it's a denial of what the game is. .

 

A lot of what you are seeing is directly a result of being told that solo/story players don't matter and all MMOs belong to raiders and raiders only. Yes it's an over-reaction, but people are tired of being told that they and their money aren't good enough to warrant equal consideration.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Damask_Rose

[OlBuzzard]

The KotFE exodus was the result of several things (IMO)

** ALL companions were gone at one shot!! (It should be noted that for the most part they are STILL gone). At that point in time a LOT of players had spent a LOT of credits (back when credits were not so plentiful) getting their companions "up to speed"! Then .. (without warning) ... POOF !! GONE!! :eek:

 

NOT GOOD !!!

 

** All of the individual "story lines" were boiled down essentially to just ONE !! In fact so much so that "one" of the more predominate out-cries was that regardless of what a player "chose" the out come was the same.

 

** ALL of the tons of crates we had to unpackage. IMO it was more of an annoyance than anything else. And the armor wasn't that great either.

 

** "Copy and paste" of the multiple "Star Fortress" missions.

 

** Not nearly enough "group" activities for those who wanted it! It just wasn't there.

 

** Short chapters: while this might be true those were still better than the short releases we see today! (Just my opinion).

 

Add all of this together (combined with what many felt were BAD mechanics) ... yeah! NOT GOOD !

 

(Edit: there was probably more .. but this was the best I could remember )

Edited March 26, 2022 by OlBuzzard

[EllieAnne]

There are toxic players on both sides, but I feel like this is the only game where I see "story" players claim it as their own.

 

Even if this is true, so what. This game started by appealing to people who would never in a million years play an MMO. You want raid and dungeons, go play WOW or Guild Wars. This game was built around story and was marketed to casual players that wanted to be a Jedi or a bounty hunter. So there is no issue with story players claiming this game as their own.

[Toraak]

Even if this is true, so what. This game started by appealing to people who would never in a million years play an MMO. You want raid and dungeons, go play WOW or Guild Wars. This game was built around story and was marketed to casual players that wanted to be a Jedi or a bounty hunter. So there is no issue with story players claiming this game as their own.

 

This game was never advertised as a solo game. It was announced and advertised as a Story driven MMO. This means they advertised it as BOTH.

 

So claiming that it started by appealing to people who would never play an MMO is 100% false.

 

With this being said I've always said BW needs to keep making content at a more consistent pace for all game modes. whether it's story, PvP, FP's, Ops, crafting or GSF (sorry if I missed any content playstyle). Everyone deserves to get new content, especially in an expansion

[NotLeslie]

Where are you getting the idea that solo/story players don't sub and buy cartel market items from? That's a huge assumption based on absolutely no data. All anyone outside of select Bioware employees can do is base guesses on anecdotal evidence. That guy on his 50th alt which might not pass Taris is probably subbing to keep access to all 50 alts, has a huge collection of cartel items unlocked so he can use everything on his alt army and has pimped out strongholds. Subscribers and whales come from all player types.

 

Hi new-ish/kinda returning player here. Only played briefly during the first year of SWTOR, left for lack of interest. Came back because Combat Styles interested me. Me and a few friends bounce from MMO to MMO. I've spent a weird amount of real life money on SWTOR for how little I've actually played the game. I would 100% consider myself a whale. So for what my perspective is worth...

 

I came back not because I care about PvP or Operations or GSF. None of my friends did either. Not saying we didn't do any of those things, but they're not the talking point for any of us when we think SWTOR. I can talk to any of my friends about why they'd want to replay SWTOR or why they'd try it out for the first time and the answer would be the same: the story. The story is definitely not on the same level of quality of FF14, but it's still one of the better MMOs to play story compared to everything else out there right now.

 

When a friend asks if SWTOR is worth playing, I don't tell them about Operations or GSF. PvP might barely get a mention at all beyond liking the feel of being a Trooper smacking Sith heads. It's the unique setting and story that brought me here. I can gush about how much I loved the Imperial Agent storyline. My SO can gush about how much they loved the Sith Sorcerer storyline. I came back because they told me KOTET/KOTFE were worth playing on top of Combat Styles finally letting me play a Trooper that ducks behind cover with a rifle as Sniper.

 

I'm actively subbed to SWTOR now. I'm no game developer. I haven't taken a business class. I can't presume to tell them how to make their game or what path the studio could take to draw in new players while retaining their current players. I haven't even reached Legacy of the Sith yet. All I know is why I'm here, why some of my friends are here, and why one of my friends has had a growing interest in trying SWTOR: to see the story.

 

KOTET has been insanely fun for a first time play through and I want to replay through it just to see the possibilities, to play out different character personalities. Replayability for me was never running Hammer Station/Kuat Yards/Eiselles for the hundredth time in a row. After coming back, I have actively avoided doing Flashpoints at all because the SWTOR community has a meta where stealth classes just sap and run past 90% of the flashpoint.

 

My thoughts are just a drop in the ocean for all the players here. But you don't have to have just story or just PVP or just flashpoints/operations. You can have more than one. Every other MMO does. What sets SWTOR apart is the Star Wars setting and the heavy focus on story.

 

Btw last thought: I am mad because I thought I had to do the Eternal Champion stuff to get Bowdaar thinking you had to do all 10 rounds. I did it. I hate myself for it. My SO has laughed at me for it, so maybe others can also laugh at this needless suffering too.

 

Edit: Pic for proof of my nonsense: https://imgur.com/mIMZhSB

Edited March 27, 2022 by NotLeslie

[GryphonSatyr]

It is incredibly obvious that SWTOR is "the story MMO." That primarily means the class stories, planet stories, and the overall macro story that has been added to over time.

 

Story is what this MMO is known for.

 

Story is what people talk about.

 

Story is what keeps people playing, re-playing, making alts to re-play story, etc.

 

Whoever at Bioware thinks this is a gear grinding, raiding game has utterly failed to pay attention to the player base and what they love about this game.

 

If you want to raid or grind gear, there are numerous MMOs that are vastly superior at that.

 

The devs need to dump about 80% of the stupid upgrade currencies, unify the gear/upgrade paths, and simplify the gear system.

 

Then they need to fix the scaling when level syncing on planets, the companion scaling/influence/presence, and give us back our cosmetic weapon skins.

 

That's the stuff people love about this game. That is what has kept it alive for 10 years.

 

This is 1000% Correct, and the devs need p to realize it!

[Shayddow]

Then they need to fix the scaling when level syncing on planets, the companion scaling/influence/presence, and give us back our cosmetic weapon skins.

 

At least one of these things is in the works, I was watching a livestream on Youtube the other day from a player on Darth Malgus, he went into the TEST and tried out the weapons in the cosmetic OUTFITTER - it is working on the PTS.

 

I still want to see inserts tho for those who want to run thru the quest again in Chapt Veteran mode to kill Arcann. To get the bonus to fight him you have to use the weapon you had specifically made in the story beforehand in chapter on Odessan. The chapter story only gives you a weapon that is moded according to the level it was upon release, so you can't go back to that chapter and replay it for a higher-grade weapon.

[NeoBlakkrstal]

Very much this. Many times I queued for random vet fp only to get one of the new ones (Umbara, Copero, Nathema, Corellia, SoV) and half of the group leaving before we even had a chance to start. Sometimes without saying anything, sometimes with some variation of "sorry, too hard for me".

 

I never do Time Wasters like Nathema, Umbara, and the like. It isn't that they are especially hard, except Nathema, for some reason Pug groups can't seem to get coordinated on the last boss. Too many people rage quit, you end up spending an hour or more only to get nothing when the group breaks up, so I just stopped doing them. At least now, with the new "Weekly" system, I came to the realization that I am never going to complete the weekly so why queue for all of the available FPs, I simply uncheck the time wasters and queue for the others. That means that I will no longer get the "Searching for Allies" mission done either, and I can live with that if it means not playing their "our way or the highway" game. I am also ignoring the new gearing system. My 306 augmented gear is better than anything 322 or 320 with the exception of the implants and earpiece. So that is all I am using. Just as I will not play the "our way or the highway" game, I won't have anything to do with the new "us four and no more" gearing system either. Just as I had nothing at all to do with the Ossus only gearing system of the past. I am confident that the Devs will come to their senses and some point and correct the dumpster fire that is 7.0, I just hope that it doesn't come too late to save the game. I predicted mass exodus over this, and it has already started.

Edited March 28, 2022 by NeoBlakkrstal

[joshuadyal]

This game was never advertised as a solo game. It was announced and advertised as a Story driven MMO. This means they advertised it as BOTH.

 

So claiming that it started by appealing to people who would never play an MMO is 100% false.

 

With this being said I've always said BW needs to keep making content at a more consistent pace for all game modes. whether it's story, PvP, FP's, Ops, crafting or GSF (sorry if I missed any content playstyle). Everyone deserves to get new content, especially in an expansion

It's not quite as simple as that, though. It was also billed as the follow-up to offline RPGs, KOTOR and KOTOR2. James Ohlen himself at launch said that "What we're really doing is Knights of the Old Republic 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12-plus." A significant percentage of the fanbase wanted THOSE games, not an MMO and were very skeptical that the whole push to make it an MMO was a corporate decision because of the perception that that's where the money was at, not because that's anything that the audience had any real demand for.

 

And James Ohlen, on retiring, sat down for another interview and kind of sort of (with a bit of defensive dissembling) admitted that that's where the audience was, and that it was a mistake to model the game after WoW instead of modeling it more specifically after KOTOR with some online options of things to do, because that's clearly what the audience wanted.

 

Of course, a lot has changed in the last ten years, but I still think that the audience remains more or less the same; what they really wanted was more KOTOR not a "Star Wars WoW."

 

And you're 100% wrong. In spite of the skepticism, plenty of people who never had any interest in any kind of MMO were willing to try it out for more KOTOR with the hope that it would be more like KOTOR and less like WoW. It absolutely appealed to people who never would have played an MMO. I was one myself, so I know that they exist, but all of the anecdotal evidence that I've been able to find suggests that I was pretty par for the course with the majority of their player base. We didn't really want an MMO at all, but we were willing to try one out if it gave us more KOTOR. And honestly, I didn't REALLY get heavily involved until after I discovered that the 4.0 update had made the game considerably more playable AS a kind of KOTOR and that you could ignore all group content entirely if you wanted to and not have it feel overly punitive.

[Ghostius]

This is 1000% Correct, and the devs need p to realize it!

 

Trouble is story itself can not support MMO for longer time and BW realised that and gone raid/ops route.

Story is fine, I like stories ,but it looses steam very fast, since story and cinematics arent really cheap content and MMOs need repeatable content.

Just remember Kotfe content and disaster it was, hours of never ending cinematics with just pressing 1 2 or 3 choice.

Also, remember SWTOR launch with hundreds of servers, story isnt really what keeps people playing.

 

Overall, story driven games are more suitable for single player games which is proven by SWTOR story being single player experience. I get you like story, but you want KOTOR sequel, not SWTOR.

[Toraak]

It's not quite as simple as that, though. It was also billed as the follow-up to offline RPGs, KOTOR and KOTOR2. James Ohlen himself at launch said that "What we're really doing is Knights of the Old Republic 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12-plus." A significant percentage of the fanbase wanted THOSE games, not an MMO and were very skeptical that the whole push to make it an MMO was a corporate decision because of the perception that that's where the money was at, not because that's anything that the audience had any real demand for.

 

And James Ohlen, on retiring, sat down for another interview and kind of sort of (with a bit of defensive dissembling) admitted that that's where the audience was, and that it was a mistake to model the game after WoW instead of modeling it more specifically after KOTOR with some online options of things to do, because that's clearly what the audience wanted.

 

Of course, a lot has changed in the last ten years, but I still think that the audience remains more or less the same; what they really wanted was more KOTOR not a "Star Wars WoW."

 

And you're 100% wrong. In spite of the skepticism, plenty of people who never had any interest in any kind of MMO were willing to try it out for more KOTOR with the hope that it would be more like KOTOR and less like WoW. It absolutely appealed to people who never would have played an MMO. I was one myself, so I know that they exist, but all of the anecdotal evidence that I've been able to find suggests that I was pretty par for the course with the majority of their player base. We didn't really want an MMO at all, but we were willing to try one out if it gave us more KOTOR. And honestly, I didn't REALLY get heavily involved until after I discovered that the 4.0 update had made the game considerably more playable AS a kind of KOTOR and that you could ignore all group content entirely if you wanted to and not have it feel overly punitive.

 

Just because he said it was suposed to be Kotor 3,4,5,6 etc doesn't mean it wasn't advertised as a Story Driven MMO. It was clearly said in many interviews, and articles that Swtor was a story driven MMO. Many players came for the story sure, and the story was able to be done solo during the leveling process. This doesn't mean it was advertised incorrectly. It just means some players (Not all) only came here for that aspect of the game. BW made it clear from the start that this was an MMO.

 

I loved kotor 1, and 2, and mainly came originally for the story, but coming from WoW I also knew 100% I would also be getting into the end game FP's and Operations as well. BW clearly said it was more then just story it was a combination of both the classic idea of continuing the kotor story, as well as having the MMO part of the game.

 

Funny thing is now I'm here for the end game, and not for the story anylonger.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Toraak

[GryphonSatyr]

Trouble is story itself can not support MMO for longer time and BW realised that and gone raid/ops route.

Story is fine, I like stories ,but it looses steam very fast, since story and cinematics arent really cheap content and MMOs need repeatable content.

Just remember Kotfe content and disaster it was, hours of never ending cinematics with just pressing 1 2 or 3 choice.

Also, remember SWTOR launch with hundreds of servers, story isnt really what keeps people playing.

 

Overall, story driven games are more suitable for single player games which is proven by SWTOR story being single player experience. I get you like story, but you want KOTOR sequel, not SWTOR.

 

1. No, I want SWTOR, with my SWTOR characters, strongholds and settings. Single - player games aren't big enough for all that. This game needs to be balanced between the two major play styles, not leaning one way or the other. Besides, I don't like KOTOR or the sequel anyway. I loathe single player games. I like a story that keeps going, patch after patch, not one that just ends.

2. Don't assume what other people want. It's rude.

[Pricia]

I play because it's a story-driven MMO.

 

I like the MMO part because we can trade with people and it means that the game is constantly involving. I actually like grinding for a goal too (to some extent...).

 

I've grown bored with single players game where you play the story and just de-install it because the game is just done. But at the same time, if there's no more story, there's no point playing for me (that's why I quit Secret World Legends).

[OlBuzzard]

I play because it's a story-driven MMO.

 

I like the MMO part because we can trade with people and it means that the game is constantly involving. I actually like grinding for a goal too (to some extent...).

 

I've grown bored with single players game where you play the story and just de-install it because the game is just done. But at the same time, if there's no more story, there's no point playing for me (that's why I quit Secret World Legends).

 

Thing about some aspects of a good MMO:

** If we're able to spend some time helping others... great. One the other hand if we're not in a position to do so: we can "opt out".

** Having a continued story to follow keeps the game fresh and (hopefully) exciting as well.

** MMO's as a general rule provide a wider range of activities and YES (sometimes) others we can share the experience with. It also affords some of us who work at a slightly "slower" pace the ability to do so without compromising the rest of the game.

 

(just my $.02 worth for today!)

[Muckbeast]

My real gripe with the story only "this game isn't for you" crowd are this: they accuse PVP'ers, OPs players, GSF, etc of being toxic yet they refuse to see just how toxic they themselves are. What person comes to this game and demands story be removed?

 

Strawman. Story/solo players are not saying PvP/OPs should be removed. They don't even say "this game is not for you."

 

Story/solo players want every style of play to be able to reach the same final quality of gear.

 

That's it.

 

1) OP/raiders: "We want the best gear and we want our gear better than what story/solo people can ever get."

 

2) Story/solo players: "We want everyone to be able to get the best gear from the content they enjoy."

 

^^^ *THAT* is the debate that is happening.

 

7.0 caters to #1. That is, imho, very bad, very elitist, highly exclusionary, and will be a disaster for user retention.

 

Pre-7.0 catered to #2 and was inclusive while letting everyone play however they wanted to play. That is, imho, vastly superior.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Muckbeast

[Nuffmeister]

It's so cringe that some of you still believe that the "story player" is who keeps the lights on. The people who keep the lights on are people who sub and, more importantly, people who spend in the Cartel Market. The guy who is on his 50th alt on Tython that he'll quit before he reaches Taris isn't funding the game.

 

Just because you don't raid or do GSF or PvP doesn't mean that the game isn't "for" the people who do. Remember KOTFET? Remember when they went all in on "solo story players"? Remember what happened? The game nearly died because "there is no end game" and "there is nothing to do" and "what is the point of subbing?" The game had a huge, HUGE influx of players due to the marketing of KOTFE, and after they ran through the story they left. Sound familiar? Yes, that's because it was a repeat of the game's launch.

 

As for the story, yeah, it's good, and personally I loved the story of Zakuul and the Emperor, but look at Legacy of the Sith. It's probably the worst story update we have ever received. I mean, it's dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Running around the sterile hallways of Manaan clicking on kolto tanks feels like a level 30 mission I might have done back in 2012.

 

People aren't going to sub for this. They aren't going to stay subbed for this. They aren't going to whale for this.

 

I agree 100%, story people aren't keeping the lights on, it's the endgame players.

 

In fact, I think they should eliminate free to play and preferred and put all endgame content behind the subscription and keep all story / solo activities provided free. Experiencing the story without any restrictions will pull people in and they will be happy to stay and pay for endgame, ops, pvp, gsf, flashpoints etc because they are obviously the majority and have kept the lights on.

 

That way all those story players who never subscribe or buy anything from the cartel market won't have a leg to stand on if they don't like something, you're getting it for free, don't complain. Then Bioware can focus their resources purely for endgame, because that is so obviously where the majority of the players who keep the lights on are.

 

It's just big brain common sense.

[CrazyScruffy]

I agree 100%, story people aren't keeping the lights on, it's the endgame players.

 

In fact, I think they should eliminate free to play and preferred and put all endgame content behind the subscription and keep all story / solo activities provided free. Experiencing the story without any restrictions will pull people in and they will be happy to stay and pay for endgame, ops, pvp, gsf, flashpoints etc because they are obviously the majority and have kept the lights on.

 

That way all those story players who never subscribe or buy anything from the cartel market won't have a leg to stand on if they don't like something, you're getting it for free, don't complain. Then Bioware can focus their resources purely for endgame, because that is so obviously where the majority of the players who keep the lights on are.

 

It's just big brain common sense.

 

It’s most likely guaranteed that story players put just as much if not more money into this game than end game players. Story players like to invest in their toons, which means buying things off the market… and if that is “big brain common sense” you’re using… keep it