7.0 Follow Up

[Pricia]

Way to ignore your players' issues that are related to design flaws and not bugs.

 

But 3 more weeks? Yikes. Guess I won't open many caches until then... This is extremely disappointing.

 

(still excited about the new story bit)

Edited March 4, 2022 by Pricia

[Nina_DoD]

you were told these changes were bad

 

players were ignored

 

same mistake WoW made.

 

y'all ain't Wow

[JakRoanin]

I am grateful Mr. Kanneg posted this. However, I am disappointed on two fronts. 1. The lack of timely communication throughout this whole mess. This post should have been made last week.

2. Why do the players bear the responsibility to check the bugs? New content, I understand, and if I had the diskspace I'd probably help out again if I trusted them to listen (I don't). Bugs are another thing altogether. They should have an intern or someone on the Live Servers doing the bug hunts. I'm not getting extra perks (outside of a worthless title) to check their homework.

[Akevv]

Keith,

 

You were expecting to accomplish, what with this message? It feels like you’re blaming -us- for not seeing -your- vision. Have you done a thing at all to share that glorious vision? Not even this message bothers to share it, either. This, feels like Star Wars once again blaming the fans, for the issues of the franchise. Uhh, no.

 

Y’all did this. Y’all -knew- what you were releasing. We -gave- you feedback. We -told- you the changes weren’t wanted. We -said- no one was asking for these changes. You zoom in on the single feature that possibly might have been mentioned in passing, that may have been sort of nice, not necessary, but nice, item loadouts as if it’s justification for ALL of the things you taken away, wrecked, and dismembered? Really?

 

What you wrote, is PR doublespeak, offers no substance, no vision, and blames your players for not liking nor sharing your vision. Sad. Really, utterly disappointing. I look forward to trashing y’all on Twitch, every stream, and warning everyone away from this game. I’ll use my voice, no matter how small, to ensure no one wastes their time here. That’s my dev letter. Enjoy.

 

PS Y’all want us to help YOU fix YOUR game, now, and we’re supposed to be excited by the opportunity? We already did that. You ignored us. My name is not Charlie Brown, sorry, not sorry.

[Barnacleboy]

you were told these changes were bad

 

players were ignored

 

same mistake WoW made.

 

y'all ain't Wow

 

lol and WoW is barely hanging in there. Swtor has been in a vegetative state for almost a decade but think it's wise to try to reinvent the wheel.

 

I also find it sad that the first reply to a post in this thread is to the second poster in the thread and about Malgus. The room is flooding and you're looking for paper towels? Like, turn the water off, fix the class. Sniper energy regen is dead. Defensives are gone. Marauder still sucks. Jugg needs their tools back. Like the boss fight is a small percentage.

[KeithKanneg]

7.1 The Spring Cleaning Update

 

That's a catchy name. I'll discuss with Charles, but not sure he'll buy into it. In the meantime, we'll just use 7.0.1 for the bug patch update. Which reminds me, it's worth noting that 200+ bug fixes may not be reflected as 200+ patch notes. I mentioned player facing earlier and that simply means the ones a player might encounter. All of these would be in the patch notes.

 

We also have other issues we fix you may never see/experience, but those are included and picked up during our build process. For example, an internal tool adjustment, or a server side change.

[Barnacleboy]

Keith,

 

You were expecting to accomplish, what with this message? It feels like you’re blaming -us- for not seeing -your- vision. Have you done a thing at all to share that glorious vision? Not even this message bothers to share it, either. This, feels like Star Wars once again blaming the fans, for the issues of the franchise. Uhh, no.

 

Y’all did this. Y’all -knew- what you were releasing. We -gave- you feedback. We -told- you the changes weren’t wanted. We -said- no one was asking for these changes. You zoom in on the single feature that possibly might have been mentioned in passing, that may have been sort of nice, not necessary, but nice, item loadouts as if it’s justification for ALL of the things you taken away, wrecked, and dismembered? Really?

 

What you wrote, is PR doublespeak, offers no substance, no vision, and blames your players for not liking nor sharing your vision. Sad. Really, utterly disappointing. I look forward to trashing y’all on Twitch, every stream, and warning everyone away from this game. I’ll use my voice, no matter how small, to ensure no one wastes their time here. That’s my dev letter. Enjoy.

 

PS Y’all want us to help YOU fix YOUR game, now, and we’re supposed to be excited by the opportunity? We already did that. You ignored us. My name is not Charlie Brown, sorry, not sorry.

 

Their response is the exact same that WoW's shadowlands team gave when covenants and conduits were met with scorn. "This is our vision, like it or leave." WoW is under 2 million subs. WoW had that to lose, Swtor doesn't. Even before 7.0 the fleets would have like 110 people on during peak times. lol, those are not good numbers.

[MaximusRex]

I agree about wanting to have it already fixed, but I also know we haven't stopped trying to replicate it so we can get it resolved. We have tons of data, but if there's any additional clues you can send us, or possibly a video of your particular encounter, that will help. I am truly sorry it's taking so long to get this and many other changes released. Thank you for your and everyone's help on our Public Test Server.

 

 

My experience is if I get pulled in I fall under the ground and die. Being on the thickest portion of the out rim of the arena area helps, but if Malgus decides to stick to Rivix or Lana it becomes difficult to keep him on the edge. My companions, Rivix and Lana also seem to disappear under the ground, but they don't die and will eventually pop back up.

[Darev]

My experience is if I get pulled in I fall under the ground and die. Being on the thickest portion of the out rim of the arena area helps, but if Malgus decides to stick to Rivix or Lana it becomes difficult to keep him on the edge. My companions, Rivix and Lana also seem to disappear under the ground, but they don't die and will eventually pop back up.

 

That's what I've seen as well.

The first night I tried the FP, Malgus was pulling me toward him within the first 10 seconds and I was dead.

Repeatedly.

I tried about 30 times before I gave up and decided to wait until it was fixed.

[HiltoftheDragon]

I see nothing mentioned of the companion situation.

I see nothing mentioned about any compensation for boxes earned but not received.

 

Besides those two issues, im glad to see work is progressing. Thank you.

[Mevan]

Just words. Useless words.

[ThanderSnB]

Until you discover the fix for Darth Malgus bug, you should just temporarily disable his Relentless Assault on live servers. It's a really terrible experience for returning players. While there is sort of a workaround, it's not communicated in the game at all. Returning players are left with a really bad first impression, probably causing many of them to leave early.

 

By the way, the first boss in Ruins of Nul can also kill players with his 50% HP knockback, so it's not just a Darth Malgus bug. Players can also instantly kill enemies with their knockbacks. It's not 100%, but I've noticed it quite often when going through the story with my alts. My Commando and Mercenary regularly killed mobs with the small knockback from their basic AoE ability.

[Savej]

...

 

7.0 is a foundational update to the game. The fundamental refactoring of all abilities and Advanced Classes into Combat Styles, the addition of the long-requested Loadouts feature, and the beginnings of new UI/UX and Itemization constitute the most significant systemic changes made to SWTOR since launch. These are only the first steps toward the ambitious and inspiring vision we have for SWTOR's future. We are excited to continue bringing this vision to life in the ongoing updates and additions coming to the game this year and beyond. More story will be coming including new locations to explore, a PvP revamp, and more visual and modernization improvements are also underway. It was always intended that 7.0 would receive multiple updates in 2022 and beyond to celebrate ten years of SWTOR.

 

Not only does the launch of Legacy of the Sith begin the journey into updating the game, but this update also opens the doors to new players who have never experienced SWTOR before. 7.0 is meant to invite new players to the game while also bringing new experiences to returning and veteran players.

 

SWTOR is a ten year old game that is very dear to all of us, and we look forward to continuing the journey of a series of updates to make the game the best it can be.

 

- Keith

 

 

Thanks for the general update and the short term progress report.

 

Can we have more specifics about what we have to "look forward to" when the "new vision" is realized? What does "PVP revamp" mean (our first reference to that was last July)?

Edited March 4, 2022 by Savej

[CarlGustaf]

I agree about wanting to have it already fixed, but I also know we haven't stopped trying to replicate it so we can get it resolved. We have tons of data, but if there's any additional clues you can send us, or possibly a video of your particular encounter, that will help. I am truly sorry it's taking so long to get this and many other changes released. Thank you for your and everyone's help on our Public Test Server.

 

 

Hello Keith

Here is a video with some of the possible kills in the flashpoint. It's from the pts, but since the bugs made it live I think the point still stands.

[gregordunbar]

Secondly, we know that 7.0 was not a smooth transition for some players, so we have been very busy since launch day resolving issues.

 

Please have at least some respect for your players intelligence. Every has noticed the games population drop back down lower than pre 7.0 numbers. Most of us know more than a few people that have quit right before 7 hit and just about everyone knows people that have quit since...and that is those that hated 7 enough to quit. include those with a LOT of disliking of the changes and you get to a high percentagethen, then you start to get to those that have had issues with a...smooth transition.

 

You people need to start facing the reality that this is a major issue before your revenue drops low enough that you are no longer employed and actually start to listen to what they are saying and why they are saying it. Its bad enough you guys had an extra 2 months of PTS to TRY to see what was going to happen, now this **** is live and its driving players away, many of them long time PAYING players.

 

Dont wait until the sudden influx of money from people who did not know what was coming and subscribed disappears...because its coming, in just a few weeks. Time is short and this post is another slap in the face to the playerbase that we are not being heard.

Edited March 4, 2022 by gregordunbar

[FlameYOL]

I agree about wanting to have it already fixed, but I also know we haven't stopped trying to replicate it so we can get it resolved. We have tons of data, but if there's any additional clues you can send us, or possibly a video of your particular encounter, that will help. I am truly sorry it's taking so long to get this and many other changes released. Thank you for your and everyone's help on our Public Test Server.

 

 

Thank you for the reply, I tested it and encountered no bugs though I'm not sure if it is fixed or of I just didn't got unlucky. As sometimes in the live servers I won't encounter the bug either. Will send any material I have your way if I encounter it on the PTS or in the live servers again, have a good one, Keith.

[DarthCasus]

I'd rather you guys walk some things back entirely. No one wanted the new inventory UI and the character tab is just not good compared to what we had for a decade. This feels like you're just trucking on without actually taking into account what has been voiced and knowing the way the game has been run up to this point, that is just about what is expected. Is there ANYTHING you can acknowledge that you may have gotten wrong besides bugs? Foundational or not, 7.0 changed more than we would have wanted and so far, there has been no response to THOSE criticisms.

 

This follow up was unsatisfying and I'm growing numb to this game and whether it continues or not and I hate that because I love this game and have been understanding of the needs for a developer to follow their own vision, but come on Keith.

Edited March 4, 2022 by DarthCasus

[Ahwassa]

Thanks Keith, I hope your team is fine is these strange times.

 

Can we get an update on class balance (for nightmare operations)?

Because now there are only 4 classes that are playable or let´s say a must have for nim.

The 4 classes being Assassin tank, Marodeur, PT dps and operative heal.

 

I´d appreciate if there could be statement if the healing output of operative heal is a bug or intended.

If intended the other healers need to be buffed. If not the damage output of the nim bosses (and defensives of dps/healers) must be looked into, because now most bosses can´t be played without 1-2 operative heals.

 

Thank you

[Floplag]

There is truly no making some people happy.

They communicate and its met with childishness.

I get the frustration but if you think that helping youre so very wrong.

[KeithKanneg]

Keith,

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess you mean well but changing how we can do weeklies was wrong. I do not like being "shoehorned" into a particular weekly just because they are on the rotation for the week. I prefer to pick and choose the ones I like and the last time I tried that I got very little for doing it that way because it wasn't on the rotation. Sorry, not sorry if this is the way you want to run the game, fine but don't expect everyone to like it. I am already down to playing maybe once a week and unless there is some sort of change to encourage me to play like I used to, I don't see that changing, except my sub.

 

We did make key changes to the way we approach rewards in 7.0. We rotate content (including Flashpoints available in Groupfinder and Weekly missions for Daily Areas) for a couple of reasons. First, it allows all reward calendars to be aligned. Conquests, Galactic Seasons, and the Featured weekly content all line up, which means players can make progress towards multiple rewards at once.

 

Second, we heard loud and clear from 6.0 feedback that farming one particular piece of content (like Hammer Station, or a particular Weekly above all others) because it was the fastest way to gear up, but it just wasn't fun. In 7.0, we rotate content to mix and match some of the shortest and longest flashpoints and weeklies each week. As a result, there is more variety in the type of content the gearing system rewards players for completing. Instead of gathering a sheer quantity of items to sort through to find an upgrade in 6.0, which required more and more efficient runs to maximize the amount of gear acquired, we moved to a system that virtually guarantees upgrades to gear by just doing the featured content each week. At the end of the day it results in a quality over quantity philosophy.

 

When content is not in rotation, it is still available and rewards are still offered, but to a lesser degree. For example, all Flashpoints are accessible by walking into their entrance, however since Groupfinder is the delivery method for ensuring upgrade rewards, not all Flashpoints are available in Groupfinder each week unless they are featured.

 

For Daily missions, we have Weekly mission wrappers ('do 6 dailies') for each area, which are the delivery method for larger rewards. These weekly missions are only available when the rewards are available, which is if they are featured that week. However all of the dailies associated with these missions are still available at all times, and still reward items relevant to gearing or upgrading gear, just at a slower rate than the featured content.

 

All of that boils down to featured content is about aligning different reward tracks such as conquest and Galactic Seasons, plus mixing up content with short and long completion times together to prevent some of the issues that awarding all content equally brought to the table in the 6.0 era.

 

I know that doesn't address being shoe-horned into content, but I hope it does provide the insight as to why we decided to make these changes. What I have noticed in-game is there are a lot more players in the areas, and with share tagging of mobs, I'm finding I'm not waiting around for respawns.

 

[Kendaric]

-snip-

 

make the game the best it can be.

 

How about bringing back moddable gear then? Because it made the game a lot better...

How about more story-focus rather than focusing mainly on FPs and OPS? This is a story-based game after all and the story is THE most important thing for many players. Not to mention that story is what SWTOR does best.

[Jedi_riches]

We did make key changes to the way we approach rewards in 7.0. We rotate content (including Flashpoints available in Groupfinder and Weekly missions for Daily Areas) for a couple of reasons. First, it allows all reward calendars to be aligned. Conquests, Galactic Seasons, and the Featured weekly content all line up, which means players can make progress towards multiple rewards at once.

 

Second, we heard loud and clear from 6.0 feedback that farming one particular piece of content (like Hammer Station, or a particular Weekly above all others) because it was the fastest way to gear up, but it just wasn't fun. In 7.0, we rotate content to mix and match some of the shortest and longest flashpoints and weeklies each week. As a result, there is more variety in the type of content the gearing system rewards players for completing. Instead of gathering a sheer quantity of items to sort through to find an upgrade in 6.0, which required more and more efficient runs to maximize the amount of gear acquired, we moved to a system that virtually guarantees upgrades to gear by just doing the featured content each week. At the end of the day it results in a quality over quantity philosophy.

 

When content is not in rotation, it is still available and rewards are still offered, but to a lesser degree. For example, all Flashpoints are accessible by walking into their entrance, however since Groupfinder is the delivery method for ensuring upgrade rewards, not all Flashpoints are available in Groupfinder each week unless they are featured.

 

For Daily missions, we have Weekly mission wrappers ('do 6 dailies') for each area, which are the delivery method for larger rewards. These weekly missions are only available when the rewards are available, which is if they are featured that week. However all of the dailies associated with these missions are still available at all times, and still reward items relevant to gearing or upgrading gear, just at a slower rate than the featured content.

 

All of that boils down to featured content is about aligning different reward tracks such as conquest and Galactic Seasons, plus mixing up content with short and long completion times together to prevent some of the issues that awarding all content equally brought to the table in the 6.0 era.

 

I know that doesn't address being shoe-horned into content, but I hope it does provide the insight as to why we decided to make these changes. What I have noticed in-game is there are a lot more players in the areas, and with share tagging of mobs, I'm finding I'm not waiting around for respawns.

 

 

Sorry that does not do it, we don't care about aligning calenders and galactic seasons we want to play content when WE want to play it not when you allow us to, why should I not be able to pick up the Dromund Kaas weekly while we happened to be there for our story, why should we need to be allowed to run hammer station, athiss or mandalorian raiders in the order and timing that they were originally intended.

 

Is galactic seasons really important to people to justify this change in idea?

[Minden]

we moved to a system that virtually guarantees upgrades to gear by just doing the featured content each week.

 

Umm, I have run several dailies and weeklies and not a single Noble Decurion Distribution Chest has given me an upgrade. All I get is exactly what I already have. Went through the process to get a 326 Autocannon. Opened a chest, got a 326 Autocannon even though I still have 320 armor. Opened a chest and got more 320 armor. Not one upgrade after countless chests.

 

However all of the dailies associated with these missions are still available at all times, and still reward items relevant to gearing or upgrading gear, just at a slower rate than the featured content.

 

Again, not working. Am I doing something wrong?

[khamseen_air]

We did make key changes to the way we approach rewards in 7.0. We rotate content (including Flashpoints available in Groupfinder and Weekly missions for Daily Areas) for a couple of reasons. First, it allows all reward calendars to be aligned. Conquests, Galactic Seasons, and the Featured weekly content all line up, which means players can make progress towards multiple rewards at once.

-snip-

 

And what a lot of us are saying is, this reduces the FUN of playing the game. Seriously, please reconsider this.

 

Removing the choice doesn't equate to 'fixing' the issue of people running Hammer Station ad nauseum. But just because some people choose to do that doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished by having our options restricted. As it stands there's literally no reason to log in on weeks where content you don't enjoy is the only content available (let's face it, non GF FPs happen extremely rarely these days and planetary dailies without the weekly wrappers are a waste of time). How many weeks do we not bother logging in before it becomes apparent that we're wasting money subbing?

[Minden]

Sorry that does not do it, we don't care about aligning calenders and galactic seasons we want to play content when WE want to play it not when you allow us to, why should I not be able to pick up the Dromund Kaas weekly while we happened to be there for our story, why should we need to be allowed to run hammer station, athiss or mandalorian raiders in the order and timing that they were originally intended.

 

Is galactic seasons really important to people to justify this change in idea?

 

So agree with this. It was great to create a new character then grab the Weekly when landing on the specific planet. Not anymore! Friends/guildmates loved running all the Flashpoints over a weekend just for the story (no space-barring). Well, that is gone as well.