Suggestions for Assassin changes. Please contribute.

[Cardali]

I've seen people talking on this forum about things they would like changed. I know this isn't beta, and this isn't WoW. But Bioware are a better company and I'd like to believe they really listen.

 

During WoW betas, the developers really listened to what people had to say, and I'd like to think Bioware would do the same.

 

So this thread is for people to make suggestions about the current assassin moves, and how they could be improved, and for discussion on those changes. Hopefully if we keep this thread civil, a developer might actually see this.

 

I'll start the ball rolling. Please be constructive, and as I said - contribute!

 

 

 

 

Maul

What it does now - High damage to a target when behind the target

What I'd like to see changed - Base damage reduced, and useable from any position on the target. However, crit chance increased by a flat % when behind the target. Also, perhaps speed up the animation.

Why? - As a class that relies on force power, I don't think this ability does enough damage to warrant its use. With the crit-from-behind modifier, it would make for a much more effective opener or provide some boss burst.

 

 

Duplicity (talent)

What it does now - Melee attacks have a chance to provide Expose Weakness, which reduces the force cost and armour of a target when using Maul

What I'd like to see changed - If people hate my first suggested change, then alter the talent to allow it to be used without having to be behind the target. (You see I'm pushing for this change... ). If people do like it, then perhaps just add in the bonus that the crit multiplier can be applied even when not behind when the Expose Weakness buff is on, but of course increase the cooldown to balance it out.

Why - Again, being behind the target is far too situational. This would also provide another move for tanks to use. It may, of course, have to be moved up the talent tree. But again it's not like maul does massive amounts of damage compared to some of the moves other classes have. I would just like to see it be used for a bit more burst.

 

Tumult

What it does now - High damage to weak or standard, medium-high damage to strong. Does not work on elite or bosses (could be a bug?)

What I'd like to see changed - Lower flat damage. No target requirements for us. Damage increased if the target is incapacitated, or if the target is effected by one of the assassins' damage over time abilities. Cooldown increased. Off Global Cooldown.

Why?- As before, and as with ALL moves of this type (I believe every class has one of these high damage on incapacitated targets, moves) this will be a useless move endgame from how I see it. However, the Imperial Agents' move can still be used if the target is poisoned. This would be good for Madness assassins, but still available to others. Darkness and Deception could benefit from the Maul change, whilst this would become something for Madness to throw in for burst.

 

Assassin's Training (Assassin Passive)

What it does now - 5 Endurance per rank. Shock damage increased by 25%

What I'd like to see changed - 5% bonus damage reduction in place of the endurance. 5 endurance is laughable. Alternatively, 0.5 seconds shaved off the GCD (global cooldown).

Why? - I feel like 5 endurance is pointless. Are we supposed to be pleased by this? The shock damage bonus is nice, but it's not massive. I think an assassin would have learned to either survive more (the increased damage reduction would make up for our pitiful lack of armour compared to other dps classes) or be quicker. The lower GCD would allow for more burst.

 

Thrash (Animation Peev)

What it does now -Two hits. Always the same... on the least interestingly animated moves.

What I'd like to see changed - This is just me being petty, I know. But I chose a melee-lightsaber class because I loved the look of all the animations. I'm disappointed to find that I honestly just stand there moving my arms a little and doing damage. I love watching the animation for saber strike, and I'd love to see those animations used for Thrash and Voltaic slash. I know that might mean making those moves do less damage, but three hits. But really... I can't be the only one that finds this animation horrificly boring?

[theonepanda]

Maul - no...its our backstab. Its about as roguey as you can get. Why would you backstab from the front? The mechanics are designed so that you don't spam it unless you are force capped or you have EW. So...why?

 

Duplicity - no? Tanks do not need another ability to use. They already have 4 full bars of items, stims, adrenals, relics, and the 8 abilities I use already when tanking. You don't...you don't need to put in another mechanic in here.

 

Tumult - the skill is designed to finish off trash mobs easily. It is not designed to be part of your primary rotation - the 45 sec cd should reflect this. Not every single skill needs to be able to be used all the time.

 

Assassin's Training - I would prefer a 1 sec gcd, yep, but this will never happen. Animations and everything are balanced around a 1.5 sec gcd. This may lead to too much burst damage in pvp, however, much like rogues in WoW. It would be good flavor though, if we were balanced around it. The shock damage is necessary as all 3 trees rely on it. It brings it up to par. 5% DR per level is insane and stupidly broken. We already have some of the best mitigation of all the tanks.

 

Thrash - Yep, agree with you here. It being the most used of all my abilities, I'm annoyed that it has no real animation. Maybe if they replaced the usual animation with saber strike (but tailored to 2 hits). More spinny and stuff.

 

I hear voltaic slash looks pretty cool. I've never tried it myself.

[Cardali]

I can see where you're coming from on everything but maul. We're not a rogue. Operatives are rogues. I honestly don't think Maul really cuts it as you get futher into the game. Its like you start playing thinking you're a rogue, then find out that you're... I dunno. A squishy shaman.

[theonepanda]

You're a rogue.

 

You cannot expect solo questing to be indicative of raiding.

 

Sorry i meant...deception is a rogue.

 

Madness plays out like an enh shammy, though with far more focus on spells than attacks.

 

Darkness is basically a DK.

 

EDIT: also maul is only used by deception I believe. Maybe if you also get the talent as madness, I'm not sure.

Edited December 30, 2011 by theonepanda

[LordHartigan]

I've seen people talking on this forum about things they would like changed. I know this isn't beta, and this isn't WoW. But Bioware are a better company and I'd like to believe they really listen.

 

During WoW betas, the developers really listened to what people had to say, and I'd like to think Bioware would do the same.

 

So this thread is for people to make suggestions about the current assassin moves, and how they could be improved, and for discussion on those changes. Hopefully if we keep this thread civil, a developer might actually see this.

 

I'll start the ball rolling. Please be constructive, and as I said - contribute!

 

 

 

 

Maul

What it does now - High damage to a target when behind the target

What I'd like to see changed - Base damage reduced, and useable from any position on the target. However, crit chance increased by a flat % when behind the target. Also, perhaps speed up the animation.

Why? - As a class that relies on force power, I don't think this ability does enough damage to warrant its use. With the crit-from-behind modifier, it would make for a much more effective opener or provide some boss burst.

 

 

Duplicity (talent)

What it does now - Melee attacks have a chance to provide Expose Weakness, which reduces the force cost and armour of a target when using Maul

What I'd like to see changed - If people hate my first suggested change, then alter the talent to allow it to be used without having to be behind the target. (You see I'm pushing for this change... ). If people do like it, then perhaps just add in the bonus that the crit multiplier can be applied even when not behind when the Expose Weakness buff is on, but of course increase the cooldown to balance it out.

Why - Again, being behind the target is far too situational. This would also provide another move for tanks to use. It may, of course, have to be moved up the talent tree. But again it's not like maul does massive amounts of damage compared to some of the moves other classes have. I would just like to see it be used for a bit more burst.

 

Tumult

What it does now - High damage to weak or standard, medium-high damage to strong. Does not work on elite or bosses (could be a bug?)

What I'd like to see changed - Lower flat damage. No target requirements for us. Damage increased if the target is incapacitated, or if the target is effected by one of the assassins' damage over time abilities. Cooldown increased. Off Global Cooldown.

Why?- As before, and as with ALL moves of this type (I believe every class has one of these high damage on incapacitated targets, moves) this will be a useless move endgame from how I see it. However, the Imperial Agents' move can still be used if the target is poisoned. This would be good for Madness assassins, but still available to others. Darkness and Deception could benefit from the Maul change, whilst this would become something for Madness to throw in for burst.

 

Assassin's Training (Assassin Passive)

What it does now - 5 Endurance per rank. Shock damage increased by 25%

What I'd like to see changed - 5% bonus damage reduction in place of the endurance. 5 endurance is laughable. Alternatively, 0.5 seconds shaved off the GCD (global cooldown).

Why? - I feel like 5 endurance is pointless. Are we supposed to be pleased by this? The shock damage bonus is nice, but it's not massive. I think an assassin would have learned to either survive more (the increased damage reduction would make up for our pitiful lack of armour compared to other dps classes) or be quicker. The lower GCD would allow for more burst.

 

Thrash (Animation Peev)

What it does now -Two hits. Always the same... on the least interestingly animated moves.

What I'd like to see changed - This is just me being petty, I know. But I chose a melee-lightsaber class because I loved the look of all the animations. I'm disappointed to find that I honestly just stand there moving my arms a little and doing damage. I love watching the animation for saber strike, and I'd love to see those animations used for Thrash and Voltaic slash. I know that might mean making those moves do less damage, but three hits. But really... I can't be the only one that finds this animation horrificly boring?

 

The one thing I would really like to see with Maul is a bit of a complimentary type ability. I created another thread about it but what I would like to see is an ability that warps you behind an enemy to set up Maul. I don't want Maul to be able to be used from teh front. To understand why I think you need to get into mindset of an assassin. Assassins aren't frontal attackers. The enage in deception and trying to keep you from focusing on them and yes, like to attack from behind without being detected. So I wouldn't change Maul as it really fits the theme of an assassin

[GeneralShade]

I agree with you on the Thrash comments, the others not so much. Surprisingly, I can't think of any changes that I would like to implement. I may revisit this once I hit 50 and have more experience with each spec.

 

As an ex-wow rogue player I find there is a tremendous amount of depth in the assassin class comparatively. Loving it.

[Zilod]

maul - i think the mechanic is fine, but the skilol is kinda useless if you dont invest into it, the dmg itself is not that bad (but not even awesome) but the force cost is waaaaaay to high, personally i will like to see it reduced by a decent margin regardless fo spec chosen

 

for the passive... 5 end is pointless and i agree it should be something else i have over 1.3k end, my 5 points/level are quite meh , change it to something else who actually scales like an end % or a reduction to force speed CD

 

trash - i agree the animation is quite boring, imo the best solution will be to pur few animations into it and make them cycle (kinda like the "autoattack") dmg and mechanic should stay the same

 

force speed - atm is necessary to invest x points into darkness to get the CD reduction, this makes a sort of skill taxation that is bad for the class... remove the CD reduction skills and lower the CD by other means (as with a bosst in the passive or just lowering its base recast time)

[jreaperx]

I'd really like to see a quick slot bar auto change when stealthed for all stealth classes and change back when un stealthed automatically.

[kainsec]

I've seen people talking on this forum about things they would like changed. I know this isn't beta, and this isn't WoW. But Bioware are a better company and I'd like to believe they really listen.

 

During WoW betas, the developers really listened to what people had to say, and I'd like to think Bioware would do the same.

 

So this thread is for people to make suggestions about the current assassin moves, and how they could be improved, and for discussion on those changes. Hopefully if we keep this thread civil, a developer might actually see this.

 

I'll start the ball rolling. Please be constructive, and as I said - contribute!

 

 

 

 

Maul

What it does now - High damage to a target when behind the target

What I'd like to see changed - Base damage reduced, and useable from any position on the target. However, crit chance increased by a flat % when behind the target. Also, perhaps speed up the animation.

Why? - As a class that relies on force power, I don't think this ability does enough damage to warrant its use. With the crit-from-behind modifier, it would make for a much more effective opener or provide some boss burst.

 

 

Duplicity (talent)

What it does now - Melee attacks have a chance to provide Expose Weakness, which reduces the force cost and armour of a target when using Maul

What I'd like to see changed - If people hate my first suggested change, then alter the talent to allow it to be used without having to be behind the target. (You see I'm pushing for this change... ). If people do like it, then perhaps just add in the bonus that the crit multiplier can be applied even when not behind when the Expose Weakness buff is on, but of course increase the cooldown to balance it out.

Why - Again, being behind the target is far too situational. This would also provide another move for tanks to use. It may, of course, have to be moved up the talent tree. But again it's not like maul does massive amounts of damage compared to some of the moves other classes have. I would just like to see it be used for a bit more burst.

 

Tumult

What it does now - High damage to weak or standard, medium-high damage to strong. Does not work on elite or bosses (could be a bug?)

What I'd like to see changed - Lower flat damage. No target requirements for us. Damage increased if the target is incapacitated, or if the target is effected by one of the assassins' damage over time abilities. Cooldown increased. Off Global Cooldown.

Why?- As before, and as with ALL moves of this type (I believe every class has one of these high damage on incapacitated targets, moves) this will be a useless move endgame from how I see it. However, the Imperial Agents' move can still be used if the target is poisoned. This would be good for Madness assassins, but still available to others. Darkness and Deception could benefit from the Maul change, whilst this would become something for Madness to throw in for burst.

 

Assassin's Training (Assassin Passive)

What it does now - 5 Endurance per rank. Shock damage increased by 25%

What I'd like to see changed - 5% bonus damage reduction in place of the endurance. 5 endurance is laughable. Alternatively, 0.5 seconds shaved off the GCD (global cooldown).

Why? - I feel like 5 endurance is pointless. Are we supposed to be pleased by this? The shock damage bonus is nice, but it's not massive. I think an assassin would have learned to either survive more (the increased damage reduction would make up for our pitiful lack of armour compared to other dps classes) or be quicker. The lower GCD would allow for more burst.

 

Thrash (Animation Peev)

What it does now -Two hits. Always the same... on the least interestingly animated moves.

What I'd like to see changed - This is just me being petty, I know. But I chose a melee-lightsaber class because I loved the look of all the animations. I'm disappointed to find that I honestly just stand there moving my arms a little and doing damage. I love watching the animation for saber strike, and I'd love to see those animations used for Thrash and Voltaic slash. I know that might mean making those moves do less damage, but three hits. But really... I can't be the only one that finds this animation horrificly boring?

 

Maul: no not at all DPS doesn't need an auto crit ability sin crit is already very high, this would make it far less useful than now. Plus it's a backstab it should be situational. If i absolutely had to change the ability it would be to reduce it base damage but make it already bypass 50% of armor with duplicity proc it ignores armor

 

Duplicity: fine as is, doesn't need change. See above if I had to change

 

tumult: no need for a change it works well for what it is suppose to do. Trash mob removal.

 

Sin training: GCD reduction is a no start period. 1.5 secs is perfect. I think either increased shield absorption or shield chance would be more appropriate to the way our tanking works. I do agree the minute endurance is useless.

 

Thrash: personally don't care but vanity changes should always be low priority.

[DarthRilous]

You're a rogue.

 

You cannot expect solo questing to be indicative of raiding.

 

Sorry i meant...deception is a rogue.

 

Madness plays out like an enh shammy, though with far more focus on spells than attacks.

 

Darkness is basically a DK.

 

EDIT: also maul is only used by deception I believe. Maybe if you also get the talent as madness, I'm not sure.

 

All Assassins get Maul. I used it for a while as a Madness spec, because I didn't have many skills, and I usually opened up out of stealth. I have dropped it from my action bar, and primarily attack from the front unstealthed. I didn't even get the last upgrade, around lvl 47.

 

As far as the other changes, I do wish I could use Tumult on any target, the animation is pretty cool.

 

Thrash animation is boring, I agree.

 

I would like to see Crushing Darkness have a longer range, or shorter cast time..or both. Its just wierd to have most of your skills be 10m or shorter, but to have 2 (creeping terror and death field and sometimes force lightning) be 30 meters. And its the long range attacks that are instant...go figure.

[sanctimonia]

I hear voltaic slash looks pretty cool. I've never tried it myself.

 

Well basically it looks like this.

 

Imagine your normal saberstaff stance.

 

You then "throw" your saber at a target and it spins end over end like a buzz saw cutting them before boomeranging back to you.

 

Pretty cool actually.

[FRISKI]

Tbh I don't think Thrash is our only ability that is dull, Shock and Maul make me feel like I'm inflicting damage to my opponent but I can't really think of other abilities that I use and actually get that satisfying sense of impacting.

[DeadEyE_X]

I completely disagree with your maul suggestions, I think it's actually great that at least one of our abilities requires us to be behind a target, its a form of backstab, and without that requirement tanks could spam it, which doesn't seem to make sense.

 

Jreaperx early when I got stealth I wondered why in the world we didn't get an extra action bar in stealth, then I figured out later that it's because we only have three (two if you don't have the blackout talents in deception) abilities to use in stealth only, doesn't seem to warrant an entire new bar.

 

My own suggestions - The graphic where maul glitches is incredibly frustrating, but I think aside from that, I would really love to see more abilities requiring the use of stealth or maybe even the blackout buff to be present to use, aside from that I'm really happy where we stand currently, definitely a very fun versatile class

 

Oh, and maybe, just maybe, we could use the darth title soon, that would be super.

 

*Edit* I essentially agree with everything panda said, and yes, Voltaic Slash does indeed look pretty awesome.

Edited December 31, 2011 by DeadEyE_X

[sanctimonia]

Tbh I don't think Thrash is our only ability that is dull, Shock and Maul make me feel like I'm inflicting damage to my opponent but I can't really think of other abilities that I use and actually get that satisfying sense of impacting.

 

Assassinate....GOD I love that skill.

 

I just looks sooooo ******.

 

Sometimes for kicks I low slash a foe than assassinate them for ultimate nerdgasm.

[Bishojo]

the problem is you guys think your rouges, im on imp side, if you want to play a rogue, go play an op, you will love the back stab, and the other attack they have, you can even train to stun and move faster, you even get your posion, i do have a 50 sin and stop playing him on the 21st (2nd day at 50) i felt he needed to much work, stealth was a joke even if you trained in it you got seen easy, even our boost we have to stealth is a joke, soon as you click it you still got seen, force cost for most ability is yuck, you want to use maul cause you know it hits hard but attacking and waiting for a proc so it dont cost as much is yuck, maddness is nice for the crush but still waiting on a proc for it 2 be a instant, i mean its so funny watching other sins try to cast that on me, i just pound on them till last second and stop it, spike was a joke 2 sec stun? wait! i love it on my tank since i can use it out of stealth, not haveing a stealth bar like the op or sumg is a yuck too, well to much for me to list but in the end, i love tanking with this guy alot and dont mind doing wz with him as a tank either, rack up them tokens fast i hope they fix the class some till then i'll be just pawning ppl with my op and jug

[Draemos]

I disagree w/ everyone single one of your ideas. That's a pretty impressive feat.

 

Tumult serves a very distinct function. It's fine. You use it to insta-gib weak mobs or as a DPS supplement for strong mobs. Other classes have similar skills.

 

Maul is rewarding the way it is. It does not need to be dumbed down and weakened. I pretty much never have any trouble landing a Maul before it's timer is up, unless someone is kiting away from me... and then I shouldn't be able to land it. If necessary, use Low Slash or another immobilize.

 

Thrash is a craptastic basic attack thats suppose to have a craptastic animation. If you want to talk about improving Voltaic, then sure.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Draemos

[theonepanda]

Thrash is not a craptastic basic attack.

 

It is the primary attack to build procs (it gets replaced by voltaic for high lvl deception) for all the specs.

 

I mean our "craptastic basic attack", which is saber strike, has a MUCH better animation than thrash. It even 3 (maybe more) special execute animations.

 

Thrash gets, nothing. You herp derp and move your saber back and forth.

[beaujames]

Maul does need a change...but removing the positional requirement will lose the burst of the ability. Balance will not allow a hard hitting attack from the front.

 

Here is my suggestion.

 

Maul is an extreme amount of force per damage. It doesn't make sense to use without the proc. This plus the fact that you have to spend 3 points just to get the proc. When it procs and crits, its a pretty number. When it doesn't, the ability is not worth using.

 

This ability shouldn't rely on the proc. I think the 3 points spent on the proc should go to a perma 25% armor ignore and critical chance increase. I think this would balance the ability well and giving us a chance to pool force and burst something down.

 

This would reduce the max damage that this ability would do, but allow us to do it more often. For an ability that costs that much force, it is very lackluster without the proc. And for it being a positional requirement, it makes it hard to justify using it.

[Dhariq]

I agree with nothing apart from that the 5 End from Assassins Training is a joke.

[Breckin_Fett]

Raze needs a higher %. As is, it's a RNG nightmare (I have a chance to crit, and each crit is only a 1/3rd chance to proc? Way too low. Assuming you have a 33ish% Crit chance, your chance to proc this is 1/9 or 0.111repeating%.)

tl;dr - Bump Raze to 50-75% chance to proc.

 

Saber Strike and Thrash basically just need to change places. Thrash should be the one hitting 3 times, as most of our class is proc based, and since it's our most used ability, everyone pretty much agrees it should have the best saber animations. Saber Strike is nothing but filler we use when we absolutely have to - it should be the 2-hit Thrash animation.

tl;dr - Thrash becomes the 3-hit ability with good animation and force cost, Saber Strike becomes 2-hit ability and free filler.

 

I'd also be pretty happy if Devour was a MUCH higher number. Currently, I'm only level 32, but I have over 7k health. The tiny little 40-60 heals I get from my abilities do basically nothing. An extra 8-12 health won't even be noticed, and it costs 2 skill points?! Horrible waste. Bump it up to 100% increase. The heals will still be incredibly small, but at least we won't feel quite as ripped off anymore.

tl;dr - Bump Devour WAY up.

 

My 2 credits.

 

 

(P.S. - Whirlwind is basically useless for an Assassin. An 8sec CC that has a cast time is never going to be worth it. That said, why does the Assassin version of the Madness tree still have Oppressing Force and Haunted Dreams skills? Change these into something that might actually tempt me to put points into them!

I'm not a Sorcerer.

My Whirlwind doesn't last 30sec.

I will NEVER use these skills.)

Edited December 31, 2011 by Breckin_Fett

[Draemos]

Thrash is not a craptastic basic attack.

 

It is the primary attack to build procs (it gets replaced by voltaic for high lvl deception) for all the specs.

 

I mean our "craptastic basic attack", which is saber strike, has a MUCH better animation than thrash. It even 3 (maybe more) special execute animations.

 

Thrash gets, nothing. You herp derp and move your saber back and forth.

 

If its replaceable it's craptasttic

[Putok]

More animation variety for thrash would be nice. Giving use some more tanking tools at lower levels would be good. Our toolbox is a bit limited in the teens, and even mid 20s.

 

There is some clunkyness with thrash, shock, and discharge being used close together, which needs to be fixed, though that's an issue that extends to more than just assassins.

[Xaxxus]

New animations: the current assassin animations are far to stiff and boring. Look nothing like darth Maul.

 

New clothing style options, I know we share gear with sorc but seriously no more dresses. The end game gear looks horrible on us. I would personally like more equipment that looks like the supreme inquisitor set (chest piece similar to marauder armor)

 

Tumult should be useable in pvp and against all mobs that you can stun/slow etc...

[DarthRilous]

[quote=

P.S. - Whirlwind is basically useless for an Assassin. An 8sec CC that has a cast time is never going to be worth it. That said, why does the Assassin version of the Madness tree still have Oppressing Force and Haunted Dreams skills? Change these into something that might actually tempt me to put points into them!

I'm not a Sorcerer.

My Whirlwind doesn't last 30sec.

I will NEVER use these skills.)

 

I have both points in upgraded whirlwind, and i love it. Instant whirlwind is great. And its not the amount of time, its the 2 second stun at the end that makes it worth it. Great for interupts. Or to kill of a mob real quick. I use it all the time.