GTN Inflation and Inviting New Player Friends

[illgot]

This nonsense about "inflation" in the in-Game-Market has to stop!.

 

In recent years, I and many others have observed how more and more prizes have been pushed there.

It can't be that a simple coloring module should cost 1,000,000 credits, which was there two years ago for 1.2 million.

 

Inflation is not "people charging more than they should".

 

Inflation is... A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money.

 

In this case of SWTOR the purchasing power of the credit for player to player trades has decreased because there is a constant increase in the amount of credits entering the economy versus credits exiting the economy. This is due to a few factors; players earning credits, third part websites botting thousands of accounts earning billions of credits an hour, and the lack of credit sinks removing a sufficient amount of credits to keep the credit from losing value too quickly.

 

Simply put, there are too many credits floating around in the economy, the amount of credits in the economy is constantly increasing, and the value people place on credits is constantly decreasing because they are too easy to obtain.

 

People are not charging too much for items to be greedy, they are charging more credits trying to compensate for inflation which is constantly lowering the value of credits.

Edited September 13, 2022 by illgot

[EllieAnne]

So destroying the Conquest system did not fix the inflation?

When BW decided that a person should be able to go from 1 to max level in an afternoon they realized that those players did not make enough money to upgrade their skills (awesome credit sink) along the way so they decided to do away with paying for skill upgrades. That is just one of many reasons we have inflation but no one has answered my question re: the OP. Why should new players expect to buy top gear from day 1?

[aeterno]

A game with credit sinks greater than credit rewards would be unplayable.

 

10 years of credit surplus will give you inflation. You can't really fix it unless you make some egregious endgame sink tied to progression and if it comes to that it's honestly just better to eat the inflation problem.

 

But I'm thinking the economy has a "bubble" and not just an inflation issue.

 

Hypercrates and the most prestigious CM items are where people "invest" their credits to combat inflation. I've got a couple of crates I bought for less than 100 million years ago, when I went on my hiatus. I'm a multi-billionaire on paper now. So there is a vested interest to keep the prices of those things high.

 

But if I wanted to "disinvest" on short notice, I'm guessing I'd run into a liquidity problem, certainly at these prices.

 

If BW put in something (not gameplay braking and) genuinely desirable at 2bil credits, I'm betting people holding these items would flood the CM trying to get the liquidity they otherwise don't want to keep on hand and the prices would implode. Pop goes the weasel. But I reckon that if you ever find a thing like that you'll at that stage also know what's being kept in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. So not bloody likely.

Edited September 13, 2022 by aeterno

[EllieAnne]

Here's the problem. Suppose the game has a special title that you could only buy for $20B. We know the uber-rich would want it as a status symbol but the newbs that downloaded the game less than 2 hours ago would QQ that they can't afford it.

[aeterno]

Here's the problem. Suppose the game has a special title that you could only buy for $20B. We know the uber-rich would want it as a status symbol but the newbs that downloaded the game less than 2 hours ago would QQ that they can't afford it.

 

As opposed to now when they QQ they can't afford anything.

 

The second you find a title like that you go for it, but I suspect a title won't tickle enough fancy to move the needle.

 

The thing that would really drain credits is if they made a couple of mounts/items of the premier AAA quality and stuck them on the CM for a limited time, say a month, and made them purchasable by credits only. Obscene amounts of credits only, limited time only.

 

The thing is they can make and keep making RL money from items like that so it becomes a question of is the economic situation really dire enough to warrant giving up profits. Sadly I don't think the devs that hypothetically care about in-game economy ever win that argument over marketing lol.

[EllieAnne]

As opposed to now when they QQ they can't afford anything.

 

What does a new player need to buy that they can't afford? Need not want.

[Deaconik]

A game with credit sinks greater than credit rewards would be unplayable.

 

10 years of credit surplus will give you inflation. You can't really fix it unless you make some egregious endgame sink tied to progression and if it comes to that it's honestly just better to eat the inflation problem.

 

But I'm thinking the economy has a "bubble" and not just an inflation issue.

 

Hypercrates and the most prestigious CM items are where people "invest" their credits to combat inflation. I've got a couple of crates I bought for less than 100 million years ago, when I went on my hiatus. I'm a multi-billionaire on paper now. So there is a vested interest to keep the prices of those things high.

 

But if I wanted to "disinvest" on short notice, I'm guessing I'd run into a liquidity problem, certainly at these prices.

 

If BW put in something (not gameplay braking and) genuinely desirable at 2bil credits, I'm betting people holding these items would flood the CM trying to get the liquidity they otherwise don't want to keep on hand and the prices would implode. Pop goes the weasel. But I reckon that if you ever find a thing like that you'll at that stage also know what's being kept in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. So not bloody likely.

 

True, there would be an inflation. But the current inflation is crazy insane, in few months many items increased the price more than 100 %. Gold augs - I bought them for 470 m. Now? 1,2 b+ When I was selling OEMs for 50 m to undercut the 60 m it was still fine deal. Nowadays? 180 m+

 

This would be fine for a 5 or 10 years difference, but not 5 months! In 5 months value of multiple items went up like crazy.

 

Sure, we can talk about "the game is old, there always be an inflation", but not like this. I still remember how a friend of mine bought white crystal for 27 m and it took him multiple weeks of bonus heroic missions spam to pay it back. Yes, this game has influx of crystals, but the issue isn't in it. The issue is in the botting mechanisms and exploits. If both goes unpunished then we talk about much bigger influx. Because guess what - that friend then couldn't even see those bonus mission planets. He took a break from the game for a while. Droids don't care If the inflation would be generated only by the players, it wouldn't be this big, because most sources of the monies is really, really, really boring and unless SWTOR is your job you won't do them that much(at least the vast majority of the playerbase).

 

This is the issue, credit sellers.

 

Also, funni thing. The other issue is, that since BioWare failed in contorlling the inflation, GTN is useless even for them subscribers, as the 1b limit is now obsolete.

[septru]

This is the issue, credit sellers.

 

The higher inflation gets, the more I realize this is is 100% true.

 

I guess there could be some kind of credit exploit... but the credit exploit would have to some secret exploit that no one else has learned about and BW has not fixed because inflation has been consistently rising for the past several years. This is unlikely.

 

The only explanation to consistent and constant rising inflation is that BioWare has stopped banning and moderating credit sellers. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

Also, funni thing. The other issue is, that since BioWare failed in contorlling the inflation, GTN is useless even for them subscribers, as the 1b limit is now obsolete.

 

Yup. Again 100% spot on.

 

What would people think about removing trades and credits-through-the-mail from the game?

 

As much as I hate it, I think its the only way to stop credit sellers.

[Achnaattwo]

a couple weeks, not able to keep up on mat's for crafting, dashed to GTN to restock.

and, see it would be almost cheaper, to just use Cartel.

Was that the plan ? to allow ridiculous pricing, to end up using Cartel market instead

 

ETA: I'm out of Jawa junk to buy from there, barely getting any, maybe 2-5 in a couple days, haven't seen the purple Jawa Junk drop for me , maybe something in every couple weeks

Edited September 22, 2022 by Achnaattwo

[Vanechka]

Last night I was on. People are now offering 7 Billion for Hypercrates. in 2 and a half months it went from the CAP the GTN could hold. 1 Bill.(999,999,999) to 7!!!

That should not be allowed. This is really getting out of control. At this point, Bioware should reduce the cap on how much can legacy vault can handle. 100 Bill is way too much based on game mechanics. I know these "traders" are cheating by purchasing dead guilds for the extra bank capacity. If people already have a couple of billions, there is no need to do anything else in the game to get more cash, you can unlock all legacy/personal perks on all your characters, and have plenty left for other stuff and repairs for life.

If they cap legacy vault max to half, I don't mind sharing 50 billion between all my guildies and people I run at the Fleet.

Am not gonna quit the game for that.

[illgot]

 

What would people think about removing trades and credits-through-the-mail from the game?

 

As much as I hate it, I think its the only way to stop credit sellers.

 

A more effective credit sink would be Bioware taxing all credit transfers 5% to 8%. That includes mailed credits, trade window and guild allowances. This would remove 5% to 8% of all credits third party websites transfers to players immediately and tax another 5% to 8% when they trade it to players again (which is why they buy credits).

 

If inflation keeps going like it is, I expect by December credits will be nearly useless in player to player transactions thanks for the 4.29 billion credit limit per character and 104.29 billion credit limit on legacy banks.

Edited September 22, 2022 by illgot

[EllieAnne]

So how are people paying the $7B for hypercrates? Splitting the payment up between two toons? Seems dangerous that someone will run off with the first payment.

[illgot]

So how are people paying the $7B for hypercrates? Splitting the payment up between two toons? Seems dangerous that someone will run off with the first payment.

 

1) give half the credits in the first trade, then the other half + crate on the second trade.

 

2) split open the hypercrate and trade 15 packs for 3.5 billion credits.

 

I suspect whole hypercrates will become less traded as people start breaking down hypercrates into Cartel Packs for barter or sale.

 

Cartel Packs can be sold on the GTN. This may last another six months or so then I suspect even Cartel packs maybe worth close to 1 billion if not more.

 

Cartel Packs can stack into 99 which saves storage space.

 

Cartel Packs can be sold and traded to players for items in any amount unlike hypercrates which hold a value of 30 Cartel packs.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

While I agree whole-heartedly that the inflation and credits situation is off the wall crazy and a real problem, the issue of Bioware getting rid of credit sellers isn't as simple as some people may think.

 

The reasons why Bioware has not, nor ever will, get rid of the credit-sellers is entirely financial.

 

Credit sellers need subscriber accounts to ply their trade given the amounts of credits being moved around by them. They need tons and tons of subscriber accounts given the credit caps involved. They're dealing in 1000s of billions of credits and given that subscriber accounts can't hold more than 4 billion credits, a credit selling operation would need 100s if not 1000s of subscriber accounts in order to sell and deliver that massive amounts of credits that they deal with.

 

If Bioware got rid of them, they would be losing tons of revenue they get from Credit seller's subscriber accounts they use to ply their trade. You're asking them to lose tons of money which is the exact opposite of the purpose businesses exist for in the first place - To make as much money as they can.

 

The ideas suggested are good ones and would address the substantial negative effects on the game economy that credit sellers are a big contributor to. But Bioware is never going to do that. They will never get rid of credit sellers because that would go against their own interests and cost them substantial revenue loses.

 

Credit sellers make Bioware a lot of money.

 

The reality is that as bad as the game economy is, no one is leaving the game over it.

 

Keeping customers happy is always a good policy of any business, but the bottom line is king and the ultimate standard by which businesses shape their policies.

 

If getting rid of credit sellers would be a financial gain for Bioware, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited September 23, 2022 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DreadtechSavant]

How do you persuade the players to reduce their prices that much?

 

Key point: those are player-to-player prices, not studio-to-player prices. The studio sells CM gear on the CM, and players sell it on the GTN.

 

Agreed. Steve is right. At the end of the day as long as player(s) buy any of these high-priced items, the player base has no justifiable complaint.

 

I have not brought any item recently of GNT and probably won't buy going forward. player should be able to charge want they want for any item, just as any player can refuse to buy.

 

BW could put a limit on in game items but could only do that id they remove in-game trading. Otherwise, it be a futile exercise.

 

As for CM items, there is nothing for BW to fix.

[SteveTheCynic]

As for CM items, there is nothing for BW to fix.

One thing that would help defuse CM items a bit would be to put more armour sets up in the CM, so their poor availability is alleviated.

[HypSpec]

One thing that would help defuse CM items a bit would be to put more armour sets up in the CM, so their poor availability is alleviated.

 

Yes, this. Any items that are not on the CM automatically incent sellers to throw up a huge price on GTN. Example: Aratech Techno speeder (a bronze level rarity I think) is up for 550m - really? You couldn't give these away a short while ago.

[Aghasett]

They're dealing in 1000s of billions of credits and given that subscriber accounts can't hold more than 4 billion credits, a credit selling operation would need 100s if not 1000s of subscriber accounts in order to sell and deliver that massive amounts of credits that they deal with.

 

It doesn't take that many accounts to mass credit farm:

 

Character credit limit: 4,294,817,295.

Guild bank limit : 4,294,967,295.

Legacy bank soft limit: 100,000,000,000

Legacy bank hard limit: 104,294,817,294

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Aghasett

[illgot]

It doesn't take that many accounts to mass credit farm:

 

Character credit limit: 4,294,817,295.

Guild bank limit : 4,294,967,295.

Legacy bank soft limit: 100,000,000,000

Legacy bank hard limit: 104,294,817,294

 

 

This can go a bit further. Each account can have 100 characters per server, each character can have their own guild. This means each character with 1 guild bank can hold 8.58 billion credits, times 100 and that's 858 billion, plus 104.29 from the legacy bank and that goes to 962.29 billion. I do not know how often Bioware catches and bans subscribed accounts selling credits but one central account can hold quite a bit of credits with the proper money invested in unlocks.

Edited September 23, 2022 by illgot

[FlatTax]

One thing that would help defuse CM items a bit would be to put more armour sets up in the CM, so their poor availability is alleviated.

 

That would be nice. Unfortunately, EA benefits from manufacturing scarcity. It pushes people into their gambling product.

 

It's the intended result.

Edited September 25, 2022 by FlatTax

[illgot]

That would be nice. Unfortunately, EA benefits from manufacturing scarcity. It pushes people into their gambling product.

 

It's the intended result.

 

I can't tell if it is neglect or intention that some items seem permanently excluded from the Cartel Market and Hypercrates.