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Really concerned about gearing in 7.0


DeadOptimus

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First off, I haven't actuality played on the PTR so this is just based on the feedback I've seen. But it looks like gearing in 7.0 with be several massive steps backward.

 

One of SWTOR's greatest strengths is your ability to gain set pieces through a combination of drops and purchasing with a single farmable currency. Another strength is being able farm mods and send whatever your main character doesn't need over to alts. This has always been a strong selling point to the game for myself and anybody I've recommended it to because it genuinely respects your time as a player. Changing this system is a mistake. From what I understand, 7.0 will have gear with preset stats that you will need several content-type-exclusive currencies to gain.

 

This looks extremely alt and casual unfriendly. It looks like an attempt to copy the worst parts of WoW format. Please keep the gear system similar if not the same and do not bring this experiment to live...

Edited by DeadOptimus
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The leveling changes really bothers me, being an alt-fanatic and only having a couple spells to use for so many levels sounds like it will ruin the fun I had leveling. I don't know much about the gearing system but that doesn't sound great either.

 

Unfortunately, it seems developers of MMOs don't listen to feedback, they roll out with the changes they wanted to do, no matter how much negativity it gets. The only reason for a PTS is for testing bugs and making sure everything works properly. Enjoyable content has nothing to do with it.

 

The only time things change is when lots of people start quitting, then they finally realize it was a mistake and fix the things that weren't broken in the first place. I guess all we can do is wait and see how things go but I'm not excited for any of these changes.

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One of the reasons I stuck to the game for so long is the gear system. It was SO NICE to be able to get it while I was doing what I wanted to do and to gear up alts easily without having to group.

 

Needless to say, I'm not happy. Could be worse because at least the gear is bound to legacy but frankly I have no desire to waste time putting everything in the legacy vault every time I switch characters - especially as it means that I will effectively lose 14 inventory slots that way.

 

What's for sure is that I will stop recommend the game as a solo friendly game now.

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The biggest problem with 7.0 gearing is that you CAN'T play the game the way you want.

If you really want to upgrade your stuff you'll be stuck in ONE game mode.

If you play Flashpoints you'll only upgrade your gear by playing flashpoints. If you raid, pvp, story, heroics, conquest you won't upgrade that gear you got from Flashpoints.

 

That's a H U G E step back and that's exactly what we're trying to tell Bioware and alert all players.

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There is only one way they will listen. That requires everyone to vote with their wallet. Meaning, unsub from the game. They quickly listen to us when we did that after the companion nerf when that happened with KOTET. I'm pretty sure if that happened again...they'd respond in a like manner. Cut off the flow of cash, see what they do. Their current FTP would not support them as they are not a true free to play game.
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There is only one way they will listen. That requires everyone to vote with their wallet. Meaning, unsub from the game. They quickly listen to us when we did that after the companion nerf when that happened with KOTET. I'm pretty sure if that happened again...they'd respond in a like manner. Cut off the flow of cash, see what they do. Their current FTP would not support them as they are not a true free to play game.

 

Already done this myself. But we’d need a lot more players to do it till it reaches a critical mass for Bioware to pay attention.

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Already done this myself. But we’d need a lot more players to do it till it reaches a critical mass for Bioware to pay attention.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a problem Trixxie. Players find out exactly what is happening with gearing, skills, and playability, they're going to react in a very negative manner. Especially when the results causing them angst in their fun and not being able to do what they've done before prior to 7.0. People, for the most part, hate being told how they must play in a game or doing something in-general. We're seeing the results of that in real life today.

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First off, I haven't actuality played on the PTR

 

What's a PTR?

I know what a PTS is, never heard of a PTR

 

Edit: After a google, I see PTR is something that seems specific to Amazons, "New World" mmorpg.

 

Here in SWTOR and for as far as I can remember, all the way back to Everquest, they have all been called "Public Test Server".

 

That might by why you're not able to play on one here in SWTOR. You're looking for something that does not exist?

Edited by Tausos
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I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a problem Trixxie. Players find out exactly what is happening with gearing, skills, and playability, they're going to react in a very negative manner. Especially when the results causing them angst in their fun and not being able to do what they've done before prior to 7.0. People, for the most part, hate being told how they must play in a game or doing something in-general. We're seeing the results of that in real life today.

 

You mean just like the community had a nervous breakdown when 3.0 was introduced, or 4.0, or 5.0, or 6.0 and nothing happened afterwards and the game continued with or without all those players that supposedly canceled their subs?

 

What's a PTR?

I know what a PTS is, never heard of a PTR

 

Public Test Realm. It's just another name for the same thing, but this game uses the PTS terminology.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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What's a PTR?

I know what a PTS is, never heard of a PTR

 

Edit: After a google, I see PTR is something that seems specific to Amazons, "New World" mmorpg.

 

Here in SWTOR and for as far as I can remember, all the way back to Everquest, they have all been called "Public Test Server".

 

That might by why you're not able to play on one here in SWTOR. You're looking for something that does not exist?

 

Google "public test realm." This post isn't a complaint about not playing the PTR, it's about the poor gearing changes that are on it.

Edited by DeadOptimus
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You mean just like the community had a nervous breakdown when 3.0 was introduced, or 4.0, or 5.0, or 6.0 and nothing happened afterwards and the game continued with or without all those players that supposedly canceled their subs?

 

You really believe nothing happened? Funny thing....a WEEK after nerfing the companions they did an emergency update and buffed companions to their current state. Just as we suggested it should be...a 25% nerf. Why did they do that? I cannot give you an exact number, but it was enough for the devs and producers to respond and fix what they did. Oh, do I have to remind you what happened when they nerfed Sorcs and Sages with update 1.2 that brought their current F2P system? 1.5 million subscribers quit the game. Nothing's going to happen you say. If you say so.

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It might be how am reading posts or am just not understanding your POV but when you remove all the talk, all it sounds like your saying "we want the best suff without any effort" and "why sould I be forced into playing with other people to get gear" Now am happy to be wrong, but just for context I have no people on my mates list I dont do content with other people. But am happy with the changes, there trying to rebuild there MMO all successful MMO's have a heathy dungeon / raiding scene games like final fantasy and wow have or had a heathy raiding scene in there past.

 

With swtors loyal player base its good there trying to branch out into more content that you cant do solo, I myself may not like it but this shows me that swtor is in a good place and there trying to experiment to get more players to join. It always leaves me wondering why people get angry about people who made a mmo, when said people add in more mmo content.

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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..... it sounds like your saying "we want the best suff without any effort" and "why sould I be forced into playing with other people to get gear"

 

 

ermm... I think the above statement is inadequate. The whole point is that NOW whether we play PVP (group conttent), FPs (group content), OPs (group content), or Conquest (solo content as well as group) we receive "currency" that we can turn into the gear we desire.

 

With 7.0 we will NOT be able to.

Because for each of those contents there's DIFFERENT currency, and as such it makes the gearing process WAY longer than now and makes a player STUCK to specific content type.

 

I play ALL of them with various frequency and i do not feel happy to be bound to one of them just because my Flashpoint gear won't be any good in PVP and vice versa.

 

and all that "green" stats, this ISN'T SWTOR 1.0 this is SWTOR 7.0! We should receive improvements, not downgrading!

 

I guess the majority of players were happy about 6.0 gearing so why on Earth change that??? What purpose does that serve, is beyond me...

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ermm... I think the above statement is inadequate. The whole point is that NOW whether we play PVP (group conttent), FPs (group content), OPs (group content), or Conquest (solo content as well as group) we receive "currency" that we can turn into the gear we desire.

 

With 7.0 we will NOT be able to.

Because for each of those contents there's DIFFERENT currency, and as such it makes the gearing process WAY longer than now and makes a player STUCK to specific content type.

 

I play ALL of them with various frequency and i do not feel happy to be bound to one of them just because my Flashpoint gear won't be any good in PVP and vice versa.

 

and all that "green" stats, this ISN'T SWTOR 1.0 this is SWTOR 7.0! We should receive improvements, not downgrading!

 

I guess the majority of players were happy about 6.0 gearing so why on Earth change that??? What purpose does that serve, is beyond me...

 

From my understanding (correct me if wrong) we start off with green gear then like you said you earn currency to upgrade your gear, so doing pvp will upgrade your pvp gear raids will upgrade your raid gear and so on and so on. what am failing (I admit this may be on my part) to understand is why this limits you in anyway in truth it seems to give you a wide range of gear to collect. That being said it will take much longer to gear to max and I agree that sucks, but not uncommon in MMO's the grind is very real in a lot of mmo's today no one likes it but sadly its the truth.

 

Most people, not all but most will get there dungeons / pvp weekly / or both done each week, so you can expect most people (at the start) will focus on one path depending on there "flaver" of playing, so as 7.0 progresses you will see 90% excluding story only players lets say 10% of the player base in 320/326 ilvl gear that means once you hit this cap your "ready" to then move into raiding, raiding starts you off on 320/326 (if your in a ops guild it wont matter so much) than as time passes you will slowly move up ilvl to 334.

 

So rather than have LOADS of unused and unwanted gear your gear track will look something like this.

 

Flashpoints / Conquest --> Legacy Operations -----> New Operation SM+VM -----> New Operation MM

 

So you see your not forced to do anything really it just looks that way with people getting the wrong idea, Yes it will take longer and thats a pain. But ops players will just focus on ops gear the more casual of us will slowly move up the teirs and max out at 326. But in fairness this is how gearing as worked in MMOs all the way back to wow classic and to say your gear will not work in pvp or flashpoints as its a lower ilvl is just wrong it will you just wont be maxed out on day 3.

 

The aim here is to get more people into ops at least story mode. Am GUESSING whats going on is the ops players are not getting there ops done and bioware are trying to get new players into there. Or ops are going unused and thus thats a large amount of work time and effort going to waste. Bioware is trying to make the raiding in swtor more appealing to the player base by adding in that higher ilvl more people will want to max there toons out so will bite the bullet and try them out, that means more Ops guilds will spring to life and players band togeather to do them, more guild doing more content is a VERY good thing.

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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The aim here is to get more people into ops at least story mode.

 

Why would I play storymode? Why would anyone play any part of the game that does not offer at least moddable gear?

 

The reason "play as want", was an objective this game has been working toward for years is get people to play other parts of the game. If you recall end game used to be super boring because of the huge lack of content once you reached max level. At one point it was like 5 flashpoint and 2 ops. nothing else offered any rewards so hardly anyone played them.

 

If max gear comes from 1 single Hardmode operation, I will just grind that op until I am blue in the face. Grinding the same stuff over and over is not fun, but as gamers here we do it all the time. Look at how many people just played hammer station to gear up; it was boring and insane, but players do that.

 

With 7.0. I will just not play as much, as I do now. Which has been kind of fun.

 

I will Just log in on scheduled guild raid days and then log back out.

 

There is no incentive to play a single bit of content aside from the new operation.

 

Why would I play decade old content with no rewards. I have been here since launch, there is hardly anything I have not already played to death already and I am certainly not going to do it for some lame unmoddable green gear.

Edited by kirorx
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The gearing has me most worried out of the changes coming because I don't see how they are going to "fix" it. People complaining about the weekly and daily resets probably don't have to be as worried as their system can/will most likely.be tweaked. The gearing on the other hand is so partitioned that I don't see the quick fix, like crafting in 6.X. crafting the 6.x stuff still sucks.

 

I get they don't like us getting hammered with meaningless drops, I am fine with that reduction, but they also need to find a way to make alt gearing not just as time consuming as gearing a new character. 6.0 I rating grind is still bad, but most of us forget that because we already did it two years back, and now we just are alt gear/set bonus farming, the stuff that actually is fun (except Kai rolls for duxn junk).

 

Maybe the fix is as simple as making the highest tiered gear from a piece of content purchasable for just currency once we have said highest tier. Keep enough grind (one to two full armor sets at a content max rating a week) but make it more enjoyable to farm.

 

Side note, the side content you do still matters on the pts. Two currencies you use for both flashpoints and operations gear need extra on top of grinding purely from the origin source. If anything they are forcing player to run heroics/dailies even if they don't want to. Instead of play your way, it's play your way + heroics.

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Nothing's going to happen you say. If you say so.

 

No, I don't think that nothing is going to happen and that nothing will get changed by the devs once 7.0 hits the live servers. But I also don't think that there will be a mass exodus of players that will lead to a fundamental change of the new endgame progression system and design philosophy until the next expansion comes around.

 

Knowing the cyclical nature of the expansions that have been released for this game so far, and EA's laissez-faire attitude towards subscriber numbers, I am willing to bet that 8.0 will go back to a stronger focus on casual solo content and much less emphasis on group activities. And if the game continues to exist by then, 9.0 will go back to more group content yet again.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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First off, I haven't actuality played on the PTR so this is just based on the feedback I've seen. But it looks like gearing in 7.0 with be several massive steps backward.

 

One of SWTOR's greatest strengths is your ability to gain set pieces through a combination of drops and purchasing with a single farmable currency. Another strength is being able farm mods and send whatever your main character doesn't need over to alts. This has always been a strong selling point to the game for myself and anybody I've recommended it to because it genuinely respects your time as a player. Changing this system is a mistake. From what I understand, 7.0 will have gear with preset stats that you will need several content-type-exclusive currencies to gain.

 

This looks extremely alt and casual unfriendly. It looks like an attempt to copy the worst parts of WoW format. Please keep the gear system similar if not the same and do not bring this experiment to live...

 

Its awful, downright awful. You play a flashpoint go to loot a boss.... Its the most unrewarding element ever. You might be lucky enough to get the RNG drop of scraps.

 

And then you need an excessive amount of these scraps to level up one item. One tier.

 

Showed it during a livestream and pretty much every comment was a variation of "I'm unsubbing for 7.0"

 

There is a small group of players who might like having no sense of reward or accomplishment... But most people want a decent loot/gear system.

 

I have never played a game with one as bad as it is on 7.0. It effectively ruins whatever positive things they might put out...

 

Game was already frustrating enough with lack of content, now they downgrade the replay value massively. Oh and the new gear is awful too stat wise, very poorly distributed stats with less forgiving breakpoints.

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But I also don't think that there will be a mass exodus of players that will lead to a fundamental change of the new endgame progression system and design philosophy until the next expansion comes around.

 

This would be an unwise bet. You are lucky to find 10 people on the PTS. There is an endless laundry list of reasons people are unsubbing for 7.0. Sure they'll pick up new players when they launch on consoles in their last ditch effort to grab revenue.... (no it's not been announced. Its pretty obvious that's the intent behind design changes)

 

But backlash has forced them to change things, take the Amplifier window in May-ish 2021. Massive Backlash forced em to change it.

 

And that was over a small UI element, the backlash is going to be probably the largest they've dealt with if these systems on PTS are implemented.

 

They just keep neglecting or punishing their base and eventually people have enough of bad choices. 7.0 will def be a breaking point for a lot of players adamantly frustrated with the "10 year anniversary" and the promise of content once again...

 

An empty promise.

 

Also when they see how bad the new Flashpoint is as well... They just keep adding grief stacks...

 

Players hitting their enrage timers in Feb.

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You know what's super fun... being forced to grind the same content we've already been doing for years to get gear. I get that considering the utter lack of new content that the game has released in the last few years, but at least I can play what I want, right?

 

Nope, we can't even CHOOSE which content we want to do to get gear, AND the gear is worse than what we already have.

 

Baffles me that anyone thought it would be a good idea.

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The aim here is to get more people into ops at least story mode. Am GUESSING whats going on is the ops players are not getting there ops done and bioware are trying to get new players into there. Or ops are going unused and thus thats a large amount of work time and effort going to waste. Bioware is trying to make the raiding in swtor more appealing to the player base by adding in that higher ilvl more people will want to max there toons out so will bite the bullet and try them out, that means more Ops guilds will spring to life and players band togeather to do them, more guild doing more content is a VERY good thing.

 

As a non-raider I can tell you and the devs what would get me into an Ops .... NOTHING. It's simply not an activity that I consider even remotely compelling, so why would I bother?

 

The more they try to pressure me into doing stuff I don't want/enjoy to do, the more likely I am to unsub and call it quits. Simple as that.

BioWare wants my money? Give me more story and compelling solo content.

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This would be an unwise bet.

 

But it is still a bet I am willing to take. I have been around this game for over 6 expansions now with each somehow being the worst one yet and the final breaking point. Yet it is still here.

 

I have experienced the mass exodus of the initial player base because of the non-existent endgame content and crucial features that were missing after release. The start of the F2P model and the Cartel Market that was supposed to lead the game straight into maintenance mode in a matter of months. The disappointing first expansion with 2.0 that did not continue the class stories and made the community realize the big downside of having professionally voiced and branching dialogue in three languages. The replacing of the three skill trees with one discipline path in 3.0 that forced the players into specific class specs. The introduction of level-sync and overall casualization with 4.0 that was the worst idea ever, because it devalued the feeling of progress for your characters when trying to facestomp low lvl enemies. The introduction of Galactic Command in 5.0 and being forced to grind for gear crates and currencies instead of getting direct gear drops from the content that you are playing. And the sheer randomness of getting higher iRating drops and exclusive sets that were not available for everyone in 6.0.

 

I think 7.0 will fit nicely into this Menagerie of the Damned without doing anything out of the ordinary when it comes to this game.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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As a non-raider I can tell you and the devs what would get me into an Ops .... NOTHING. It's simply not an activity that I consider even remotely compelling, so why would I bother?

 

The more they try to pressure me into doing stuff I don't want/enjoy to do, the more likely I am to unsub and call it quits. Simple as that.

BioWare wants my money? Give me more story and compelling solo content.

 

Am a solo player, I want more group based content. Why? its simple, swtor lives and dies by its player base like all mmo's do, the people who play solo content like myself make up a small part of the player base am happy with that, there is enough solo content to keep me happy and when its done I unsub and move on to another game, like a lot of solo players do, we do the solo content then move on. So what dose it matter if people like us are in 326 gear? thats enough to do 99% of the content and the rest you admit yourself you won't do and thus won't need that gear.

 

The reason Bioware, blizz and other mmo devs put this carrot on the stick approach into games is to try and get other people to do group content. Why? thats simple it takes longer and your subbed for longer people want achievements, mounts and titles from said raids, that takes time. But more than that you make good mates and you enjoy the game more with other people its a win win.

 

Even people like myself who for one reason or another don't do group content, we need group content to carry on so people pay there sub and we carry on playing a game we all enjoy.

 

There a lot of reasons why solo players play mmos, sometimes we chat to random people or we like crafting or farm mounts or whatever. I have ASD so I need to be carefull with doing to much fast or intence content otherwise I can get very stressed very quick, I also have Social anxiety, so it helps me from time to time to talk to random people even if its just a hello or can you help me kill a boss or do you need help killing that boss ect. BUT i sould never let MY issues effect other people, who have the right to enjoy all forms of content,

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It might be how am reading posts or am just not understanding your POV but when you remove all the talk, all it sounds like your saying "we want the best suff without any effort" and "why sould I be forced into playing with other people to get gear" Now am happy to be wrong, but just for context I have no people on my mates list I dont do content with other people. But am happy with the changes, there trying to rebuild there MMO all successful MMO's have a heathy dungeon / raiding scene games like final fantasy and wow have or had a heathy raiding scene in there past.

 

With swtors loyal player base its good there trying to branch out into more content that you cant do solo, I myself may not like it but this shows me that swtor is in a good place and there trying to experiment to get more players to join. It always leaves me wondering why people get angry about people who made a mmo, when said people add in more mmo content.

 

Well, you're wrong. In WoW I do heroic raiding and was on the prog team for quite a while before the game started to suck. I also make a habit of doing all their solo challenge modes. The gearing system in WoW has been a dumpster fire for at least 3 consecutive expansions now, making it very difficult especially for progression players to optimize.

 

Everything that's wrong with WoW gear is resolved with SWTOR's current state. It respects your time invested in playing- if you don't get a gear piece you need as a drop, you can buy it with a single currency you can from from any content. If you have a piece you don't need, you can shuttle it over to an alt. You don't have to live and die in every piece of content to hit gear cap, you can just do what you want. That's freedom to progress.

 

There's nothing wrong with this system, and as I've said, it's been one of the strongest selling points to anybody else who I've recommended the game to, especially the ones who like group content. This is particularly crucial because finding consistent progression ops groups in this game is leagues more difficult than other mmo's. The opportunity to find a situation to get that best gear is low as it is, so being prepared enough to play at that level when the opportunity rises is crucial.

 

There's a fine line between criticizing what is objectively a convoluted mess and gear gating (and objectively inferior to the status quo design for the game) versus wanting everything handed out for free.

Edited by DeadOptimus
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As a non-raider I can tell you and the devs what would get me into an Ops .... NOTHING. It's simply not an activity that I consider even remotely compelling, so why would I bother?

 

The more they try to pressure me into doing stuff I don't want/enjoy to do, the more likely I am to unsub and call it quits. Simple as that.

BioWare wants my money? Give me more story and compelling solo content.

 

TBF, I have seen people asking for solo ops, so that would probably get non-raiders to play ops...

 

Which I can see why they would do it, the dreadmaster storyline is still the best non-class story in the game... and it ended in 2.X

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