7.0 Least amount of story content?

[ralphieceaser]

I heard some people saying 7.0 is going to have the least amount of story content, is there a source for this?

Do we have any idea why? As in the reasoning for this? It seems weird for a game so heavily focused on story to have an "expansion" with barely any story, especially since we are talking about the 10th year anniversary which is a HUGE thing.

 

I am kinda starting to think they ve checked the data and realized majority of players have no bothered with ops so there's quite a huge list of "new" content available for players and them going full on raid or die is their attempt to get people to try that "new" content which for the people who are genuinely interested, will take a while to get through all those ops and MM fps since they rarely pop in the group que finder.

 

Though i doubt it will work, WoW always tried to push people into high end raiding, people dont do high end raiding not because they are averse to risk but because they dont like the activity, the people who usually obsess over those activities or having to spend ages trying to find the right guild which is socially and mentally exhausting.

[MadDutchman]

No there is no source as it's just the usual pre-expansion doom-saying.

 

Generally speaking as the game gets older the quantity of content decreases as the budget gets smaller. Whether that is the case here or they've pulled out the stops a bit more in honour of the 10 year anniversary is anyone's guess.

 

 

As always, wait and see.

[arunav]

I heard some people saying 7.0 is going to have the least amount of story content, is there a source for this?

Do we have any idea why? As in the reasoning for this? It seems weird for a game so heavily focused on story to have an "expansion" with barely any story, especially since we are talking about the 10th year anniversary which is a HUGE thing.

 

I am kinda starting to think they ve checked the data and realized majority of players have no bothered with ops so there's quite a huge list of "new" content available for players and them going full on raid or die is their attempt to get people to try that "new" content which for the people who are genuinely interested, will take a while to get through all those ops and MM fps since they rarely pop in the group que finder.

 

Though i doubt it will work, WoW always tried to push people into high end raiding, people dont do high end raiding not because they are averse to risk but because they dont like the activity, the people who usually obsess over those activities or having to spend ages trying to find the right guild which is socially and mentally exhausting.

 

Just want to mention MM FPs and Ops really have very little in common. MM FPs are just like Vet FPs with some actual mechanics that have consequences thrown in, requiring a tank and in most cases a healer. Ops are generally much more difficult, though SM has been watered down over the years to be generally accessible to anyone who does, say, Vet FPs, aside from the last 2 Op releases. Master and Blaster, Revan, and Underlurker in SM would also give most Vet FP folks some trouble. Basically every other SM Ops boss prior to the Gods Op has been made easy now.

[ralphieceaser]

Just want to mention MM FPs and Ops really have very little in common. MM FPs are just like Vet FPs with some actual mechanics that have consequences thrown in, requiring a tank and in most cases a healer. Ops are generally much more difficult, though SM has been watered down over the years to be generally accessible to anyone who does, say, Vet FPs, aside from the last 2 Op releases. Master and Blaster, Revan, and Underlurker in SM would also give most Vet FP folks some trouble. Basically every other SM Ops boss prior to the Gods Op has been made easy now.

 

I am not going to argue about difficulty, my main point is the fact that is "content" that many people havent really touched since it is gated behind organized group since even some MM fps never pop even in group finder.

Basically they might have realized there's content that people havent experienced so they might try to push them in it so people start trying out all the content they never had seen before and its years of Ops and fps, wouldnt say its a great idea or something that works but they definitely feel better than the story versions where you cant rly die. Though I do remember some ppl having a lot of trouble on the last boss in nathema conspiracy lul xD

 

Though I would love to see MM fps having a similar system to WoW's m+ where you create infinitely scaling content FPs so good useage of your toolkit would be vital to survive at somepoint, though they would need to make a lot of changes in the trash to avoid stealthing through everything or just pulling everything behind a corner to brainlessly and safely aoe down.

[MystyqeofXev]

Though i doubt it will work, WoW always tried to push people into high end raiding, people dont do high end raiding not because they are averse to risk but because they dont like the activity, the people who usually obsess over those activities or having to spend ages trying to find the right guild which is socially and mentally exhausting.

 

WoW raiding and SWTOR raiding are {LARGE UNIT OF MEASUREMENT} apart. I hate to belabor the obvious, but this is NOT an "end-game raiding" MMORPG.

 

The "raids" in SWTOR are SIGNIFICANTLY easier. There is much less of a preparation period as well as "gearing up" process in this game. That's not a bad thing. There are {LARGE UNIT OF MEASUREMENT} fewer mechanics in SWTOR.

 

One reason WoW raiders seemed (and sometimes were) "Toxic / Abrasive" is because there is an expectation of play at anything beyond Normal Raids. (WoW had GF (Group Finder. Think 20 people, eight of whom MIGHT know what they're doing), Normal, Heroic and Mythic). You were expected to come with (at a minimum): Proper gear, WoW equivalent of Stims and Adrenals, Voice, and a willingness to accept responsibility if you messed up. Grinding mats sometimes took hours.

 

You were also expected to know the fights. To include, but not limited to: Interrupts, movement, target switching, etc. You were expected to have either watched a video, or you were in prog mode.

 

Nothing in SWTOR mirrors WoW's raid mechanics. Imagine the floor of the Zakuul arena (IOW covered in 'bad' 90% of the time) constant movement, et al.

 

WoW also had "Flex" raiding. Have eleven people for a ten man raid? No problem. The raid auto-adjusted. (Why this isn't something EA has implemented is beyond me)

 

As an aside, WoW also introduce Mythic Dungeons. This was a whole new set of 'niche' players, and there were multiple mechanisms (Available on the web) for people to see your progress.

 

Again, why EA hasn't introduced that equivalent is similarly beyond me.

[ralphieceaser]

One reason WoW raiders seemed (and sometimes were) "Toxic / Abrasive" is because there is an expectation of play at anything beyond Normal Raids. (WoW had GF (Group Finder. Think 20 people, eight of whom MIGHT know what they're doing), Normal, Heroic and Mythic). You were expected to come with (at a minimum): Proper gear, WoW equivalent of Stims and Adrenals, Voice, and a willingness to accept responsibility if you messed up. Grinding mats sometimes took hours.

 

You were also expected to know the fights. To include, but not limited to: Interrupts, movement, target switching, etc. You were expected to have either watched a video, or you were in prog mode

Oh it is a lot worse and has been for the past few years, you see, even if you consider WoW's mythic raids really hard, there is still a gap for error, that gap becomes more and more enormous as people get gear.

For example let's say an encounter requires a number performance of 70 to be beaten.

The world first raider that both knows their class and uses the most broken specs can achieve 75 in the first week which is where they dont have great gear.

The same person can achieve 150 by the time they are fully geared, quite literally double the performance they started with due to a combination of skill an gear, gear plays a huge factor here as well that would cover up the shortcomings of any underperforming spec if played well.

 

Meanwhile we have a ton of metaslaves act as if they NEED the best gear and the most meta optimal specs to clear, they genuinely believe that so we have to deal with delusional toxicity now because people dont understand what is making them wipe isnt the lack of meta specs but the consistent mechanical failures and deaths, and sadly this is the majority of players in wow these days.

 

And irrespective of that, based on your comment, it make's Swtor's decision to go full on raid or die if you want good gear even more illogical, not only due to the difficulty but with how sparse OPS are in terms of releasing new ones, why would you ever try to force people into them?

 

I am honestly uncertain as to what the devs are thinking

[Pricia]

It's not doom saying.

There was an interview a couple of weeks ago where they said it's basically one planet and one flashpoint, and they admitted that it's short.

But more will be coming as part of the 10yo celebration, whatever that means.

[Pietrastor]

Because it has one small planet and 1 FP. That's it. Even Onslaught which was already very short had 2 planets. Why would you even be surprised? The game's been getting tiny, bare-minimum story updates for many years now. Along with tiny, bare-minimum updates in basically every other area. So yeah. Least content ever and the "Grand 10th anniversary" won't be any different.

[ralphieceaser]

So yeah. Least content ever and the "Grand 10th anniversary" won't be any different.

 

The fact that they ve been hyping up the 10th year anniversary kind makes you think they have big plans

[arunav]

It's not doom saying.

There was an interview a couple of weeks ago where they said it's basically one planet and one flashpoint, and they admitted that it's short.

But more will be coming as part of the 10yo celebration, whatever that means.

 

Planet is being generous.

 

Charles Boyd was interviewed on a YouTube channel recently and basically said Manaan would have some open areas, but a bunch of it would also feel like KotFE/KotET hallways. He stated "square footage" is difficult to put a value to, but compared it to something like Ossus or Onderon, again with less open areas.

 

So, basically a daily area, with some story instances attached is probably what we'll see in 7.0.

 

How long a story that will support is unclear, but it seems unlikely one pretty small area and a FP will end up being something very different in length than is typical. Like Onslaught, I believe each faction has a different version at least.

 

It certainly seems that in terms of scope, this is the smallest expansion they've ever released, when it comes to playable content.

Edited November 12, 2021 by arunav

[arunav]

The fact that they ve been hyping up the 10th year anniversary kind makes you think they have big plans

 

The big plans might involve SWTOR being launched eventually on a non-PC platform.

 

Swtorista posted a character creation screenshot from PTS on Reddit, and the design almost certainly suggests a user without a mouse and keyboard in mind.

 

This would also make sense of why BW suddenly is changing class design so much for 7.0.

 

While BW certainly isn't going to announce anything now, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point next year or in 2022 SWTOR will find a release for a non-PC platform for the first time.

 

While I'm glad some others will get to experience the game in some way, further simplifying an already quite simple game to accommodate a non-PC player isn't something I'm personally excited about. On the other hand, I've enjoyed SWTOR since the 1.x days, and if it heads in a different direction, it's not like I haven't gotten plenty out of logging in.

Edited November 12, 2021 by arunav

[ralphieceaser]

The big plans might involve SWTOR being launched eventually on a non-PC platform.

 

Hmm quite possible, FF14 is also on consoles yet still has a lot of skills like most mmorpgs (though with a completel lack of utility and control, all skills are just dps related) so it could be possible.

 

The "pruning" in 7.0 doesnt seem that bad with the amount of skills in mind, it is more problematic in the sense that some classes have their already limited dcds removed or limited while certain other classes dont, that is definitely not leveling the playing field.

[MystyqeofXev]

The "pruning" in 7.0 doesnt seem that bad with the amount of skills in mind, it is more problematic in the sense that some classes have their already limited dcds removed or limited while certain other classes dont, that is definitely not leveling the playing field.

 

(Preface, I've seen this before)

 

*******************

 

In an effort to make all classes "equal" or "balanced", you similarly make all classes stale. Make no mistake, this is for the Devs as balancing is much easier when every class has two DPS abilities, one defensive, and one Utility, and that's IT.

 

This is why {EQUIPMENT FACTORS} are going away (WoW did the same thing. As I've said, I've seen this before) because you don't have the external variable(s) to consider.

 

The pruning is masked with "Oh look - shiny!" of playing another storyline, which, honestly is recycled content. WoW went the other way - a story that veered into ./facepalm status, MULTIPLE systems with MULTIPLE grinds.

 

They're now in acknowledged maintenance mode. Admittedly for more reasons than bad game design.

 

By all accounts, Onslaught was light on content. The next expansion is similarly light on content. So, not to go all 'Office Space', but I have to ask, "What is it you do here?"

[TheVoyant]

Just want to mention MM FPs and Ops really have very little in common. MM FPs are just like Vet FPs with some actual mechanics that have consequences thrown in, requiring a tank and in most cases a healer. Ops are generally much more difficult, though SM has been watered down over the years to be generally accessible to anyone who does, say, Vet FPs, aside from the last 2 Op releases. Master and Blaster, Revan, and Underlurker in SM would also give most Vet FP folks some trouble. Basically every other SM Ops boss prior to the Gods Op has been made easy now.

 

MM FPs do not require a tank or healer in live, most of em don't even require a full party when moderately well geared. I think it was just the other day someone tried to vote to kick bc group finder puts me as a healer. (No I don't have the role selected, its another one of those things Bioware broke back with the Amplifier Window change.) The party legit laughed bc we thought they were joking. They were a Merc of all classes.

 

Which just brings me back the point this game does not teach people how to play it, people have no idea how to gear for most content, etc.

 

But I tend to run 2 man MM FPs to teach people how to improve at OPS/PVP/learn self reliance.

 

Same said for SM OPS, a good majority can be run with 3-4 people. Minus those that require bodies for mechanics like TFB.

 

But Eternity Vault, KP, Scum n Vill, etc. You can take a flashpoint group n clear it right now.

[ralphieceaser]

In an effort to make all classes "equal" or "balanced", you similarly make all classes stale. Make no mistake, this is for the Devs as balancing is much easier when every class has two DPS abilities, one defensive, and one Utility, and that's IT.

 

That is what i assumed would be their goal, to balance number of buttons and dcds between all classes, but based on the fact some classes like mercs, operatives dont rly seem to be losing that much meaning they are still gonna have multiple defensives.

 

It would definitely be stale if they reduced everything to one utility and one defensive and dps buttons similar to ff14 and thankfully at least that doesnt look to be the case right now.

[Gokkus]

I myself am quite dissapointed were not getting any new planets. That was always a big part of the expansion fun.

 

So we have less abilities, no way to min-max gear anymore and a relatively small story update. How exactly do they think they are going to keep people interested/paying subs? Because a trooper with a sniper rifle isnt going to cut it

 

I'll be around because I assume they will give us an update with modable gear quite quickly considering the feedback they are getting. Heck Ill probably be around because I have been for 10 years. All the same Im a bit dissapointed

Edited November 12, 2021 by Gokkus

[MystyqeofXev]

I myself am quite dissapointed were not getting any new planets. That was always a big part of the expansion fun.

 

So we have less abilities, no way to min-max gear anymore and a relatively small story update. How exactly do they think they are going to keep people interested/paying subs? Because a trooper with a sniper rifle isnt going to cut it

 

I'll be around because I assume they will give us an update with modable gear quite quickly considering the feedback they are getting. Heck Ill probably be around because I have been for 10 years. All the same Im a bit dissapointed

 

Oh, oh, pick me!

 

See, by placing the best gear (as a reward) behind NiM OPs, they are "incentivizing" you to go do that. (Also, "raiders" complained that the serfs were wearing the same togas they were, so that had to change)

 

'The beatings will continue until morale improves'

[ralphieceaser]

(Also, "raiders" complained that the serfs were wearing the same togas they were, so that had to change)'

 

It is honestly quite depressing that even after all the data and the amount of people who clearly enjoy other types of content, many mmorpg developers still obsess over that outdated idea about raids.

 

Because mmorpg started with raids giving the best gear doesnt mean it is some law or deep design philosophy that should be followed, if anything it shows their inability to adapt to how gaming and the community has evolved, focusing on a minority AT THE EXPENSE of the majority simply never lead to more happy people, always less.

[Damask_Rose]

There have been some interviews about the story, but they've been completely overshadowed by all of the controversial game play announcements.

 

This one has some solid information:

This one is coming on the 18th:

 

Interesting interviews with Charles, but no real info: https://www.mmobomb.com/star-wars-old-republic-interview-creative-director-charles-boyd https://massivelyop.com/2021/11/04/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-charles-boyd-on-bioware-newbie-acquisition-economy-and-beyond/

[Darklighter]

Well, this is all a huge bummer.

 

I came back to the game hoping for a decent amount of new content, but it sounds like we'll all be done with it in a couple days.

 

I am so sad about what a shell of it's former self this game has become.

 

But I guess we can't complain too much considering the expansion is essentially "free" within our subscription per month cost.

 

Still quite bummed...