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why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?


abhaxus
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There has never been something that so consistently is hated by your community. This needs to be removed immediately. I am not sure why you think it is a good idea to punish players because of your own design choices and bugs.
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A bunch of players, mostly ranked players, consistently complained about people leaving war zones early. The suspicion was that it was part of wintrading. So the devs decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and bring the hammer down on ANYONE who leaves a war zone early for ANY reason. And they looked upon their work and called it good.

 

Don’t get me wrong. Being in an arena and watching half your team decide to nope out on the queue for one reason or another really sucks. But there are so many other options for preventing this that don’t involve bending players over a metaphorical table and making them squeal like a pig for twenty minutes.

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A bunch of players, mostly ranked players, consistently complained about people leaving war zones early. The suspicion was that it was part of wintrading. So the devs decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and bring the hammer down on ANYONE who leaves a war zone early for ANY reason. And they looked upon their work and called it good.

 

Don’t get me wrong. Being in an arena and watching half your team decide to nope out on the queue for one reason or another really sucks. But there are so many other options for preventing this that don’t involve bending players over a metaphorical table and making them squeal like a pig for twenty minutes.

 

A lock out in ranked makes sense, but not in regs where there is no ELO that people can manipulate to increase their ranking to get end of season rewards. You get nothing for reg pvp as it is. But you are locked out if you DC or leave because you don’t like a map or you have a team who doesn’t play to win. Which is a completely different situation to ranked.

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A bunch of players, mostly ranked players, consistently complained about people leaving war zones early. The suspicion was that it was part of wintrading. So the devs decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and bring the hammer down on ANYONE who leaves a war zone early for ANY reason. And they looked upon their work and called it good.

 

Don’t get me wrong. Being in an arena and watching half your team decide to nope out on the queue for one reason or another really sucks. But there are so many other options for preventing this that don’t involve bending players over a metaphorical table and making them squeal like a pig for twenty minutes.

 

you're conflating things and going to incur a lot of ire.

 

ranked players were complaining about people leaving. and it was used in win-trading. that was all in ranked arena matches. it had absolutely nothing to do with WZs.

 

separately, there have always been players who complain about ppl leaving WZs. those players stick to a code that you stick out the WZ no matter what, etc. they aren't ranked players or the ones who were concerned with wintrading.

 

generally, ranked players in WZs don't care about the WZs they're in. they just run around busting heads. they could care less about forum noise or anything else.

Edited by foxmob
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you're conflating things and going to incur a lot of ire.

 

ranked players were complaining about people leaving. and it was used in win-trading. that was all in ranked arena matches. it had absolutely nothing to do with WZs.

 

separately, there have always been players who complain about ppl leaving WZs. those players stick to a code that you stick out the WZ no matter what, etc. they aren't ranked players or the ones who were concerned with wintrading.

 

generally, ranked players in WZs don't care about the WZs they're in. they just run around busting heads. they could care less about forum noise or anything else.

 

Okay. WZs, Arenas, whatever. It doesn't change the fact that their complaints (which were legit to be fair) were part of the reason we ended up with a deserter lockout. My problem isn't with the ranked community for making that complaint, it's with the devs who decided to implement this lockout on both ranked and regs.

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The problem is not whether ranked players asked for a lockout or whether reg players were doing so as well. The issue is that bioware looked at the data available to them and came to the wrong conclusions. Lots of players leaving a match does hurt the quality of that match. Rather than punishing players (which inevitably hurts players who didn't intend to leave), bioware should have fixed the reasons for leaving. They should have removed queshball, vandin, and opg without adding the lockout and looked at the data after a month or two. The quit rate would have dropped dramatically just from that. Then they could have looked at the quit rate and seen the following:

 

1) players more likely to leave when getting the same map x number of times in a short period

2) players more likely to leave when matched with/against the same players x number of times in a short period

3) players more likely to leave after losing x number of times in a row

 

I know for me, the only reasons I'll leave by choice are if I pop into my 4th huttball in a short span or if I'm matched with the same really bad players more than 2 or 3 times in a row.

 

My 3rd example is the most intriguing. I'd bet half my in game credits that people who leave warzones the most have lower than average win rates.

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1) players more likely to leave when getting the same map x number of times in a short period

2) players more likely to leave when matched with/against the same players x number of times in a short period

3) players more likely to leave after losing x number of times in a row

 

.

 

4) players more likely to leave when they want to play the map objectives and either their team or the other does not. I'd say that's pretty high on the list. and since you cannot make ppl play the objectives, it's either leave or ignore them yourself.

5) players leave obvious losses.

 

er...6) players more likely to leave when they back fill

Edited by foxmob
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The issue for me isn’t the lock out by itself. It’s the way it’s been implemented with a win only requirement to advance your missions. As well as not giving players some form or map choice or taking into account players who DC because the server has an issue or they have a flaky connection to the servers they can’t control.

 

The lock out would be liveable if you still got some progress towards to missions and we had semi maps choice and the game could tell if you DC. But having it the way it is now with out the support systems in place feels overly heavy handed and soul destroying sometimes.

 

Lastly, this is worse for back fillers because they get shafted as soon as they enter pvp.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Its like they only know extremes. Either only win requirment, super long and legacy-wide lockout (***?) which turn on even if u dc, no map selection or nothing. Same with balancing classes: heavy nerfs or overbuffs. Concept of middleground is not known in Bioware i guess.

 

The most funny thing is regs are even worse than before (than ever, actually). People ignore objectives same as in the past, but it seems like pug these days are only clueless newbies. Combine that with overload of stuns, roots, slows and ridiculous amount of defensive cds and you have pretty dreadful experience. At least compared to what we used to have.

 

You can rework it, like for example: greatly reduce lockout duration (5 min is max imo), make it only character-wide, give people opportunity to leave warzone at the beginning without punishment and for a love of God give us option to choose map we queue for (or at least type of map, like for example huttballs in one bracket, novare and civil war in other).

If reworking is too demanding for you, just remove it from regs. But at least do something.

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No point in having the lockout in regs since you are forcing ppl to stay in a match for no rewards if they're on the losing side.

This is probably why they put it in. Once you get three capped or steamrolled, they don't want the entire losing team to just up and leave.

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Its like they only know extremes. Either only win requirment, super long and legacy-wide lockout (***?) which turn on even if u dc, no map selection or nothing. Same with balancing classes: heavy nerfs or overbuffs. Concept of middleground is not known in Bioware i guess.

 

The most funny thing is regs are even worse than before (than ever, actually). People ignore objectives same as in the past, but it seems like pug these days are only clueless newbies. Combine that with overload of stuns, roots, slows and ridiculous amount of defensive cds and you have pretty dreadful experience. At least compared to what we used to have.

 

You can rework it, like for example: greatly reduce lockout duration (5 min is max imo), make it only character-wide, give people opportunity to leave warzone at the beginning without punishment and for a love of God give us option to choose map we queue for (or at least type of map, like for example huttballs in one bracket, novare and civil war in other).

If reworking is too demanding for you, just remove it from regs. But at least do something.

 

This is true. The whole experiment in its current form is a huge failure IMO. Not sure what Bioware gages as a success. It makes me wonder if they really are tracking it like they said they were or if that was just fake platitudes to shut us up for a bit.

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Would be nice if you didn't get the lockout when you die, hit return to medcenter and get booted from the WZ instead.

 

lol been there. rare, but been there.

 

changing gear ought to be allowed in regs. you know, respecing used to be a thing. and it made for really interesting ranked matches. tanks would go dps and dps go tank between hyper gate explosions. it was cool to watch.

 

but really, I can't equip a weapon that wasn't equipped already? I assume this has to do with bolster and it's amateurish implementation, which come to think of it, is probably related to why the asinine gear drops cannot read the ilvl of stuff in your bags as opposed to what's you have equipped. so when I was leveling, an aug'd 258 was a better relic for me than the 270's stuff that was dropping, or the 300 b/c it was an on-use relic. so if I didn't remember to swap out the useless higher ilvl relic for my 258, it screwed me on the ilvl of w/e gear I got from the reward chest. just...like...it's 2021. you should be able to determine maximum ilvl of gear in inventory AND equipped.

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This is probably why they put it in. Once you get three capped or steamrolled, they don't want the entire losing team to just up and leave.

 

This.

 

The lockout timer and the win requirement on the dailies are both good things. PvP has been way better since they implemented that stuff. People actually try now in warzones.

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This.

 

The lockout timer and the win requirement on the dailies are both good things. PvP has been way better since they implemented that stuff. People actually try now in warzones.

 

An opinion with which I emphatically disagree. Players that are used to backfill are now trapped in a quagmire of suck from which they cannot escape without penalty. These are virtually always BADLY lopsided games. The deserter debuff also affects people whose connection is severed through no fault of their own, and it disproportionally punishes solo queuers as a result of these two enormous problems.

 

Then there is the problem of map streaks. Two or three maps will be presented time, and time, and time, and time, and time, and time again...ad nauseam. I know there are maps you dislike. Do you think it's fun getting the map you dislike most time and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again? <-- If you think that's obnoxious, queue regs on a map you abhor, and tell me how much fun that is.

I don't mind the deserter debuff too much until this happens, then I despise it and everyone who suggested it.

 

A few like the deserter debuff, but more and more are coming to loathe it. I have always loathed it, but not because I made a habit of deserting, but because of the problems listed above. The one that particularly disgusts me is playing the same map 5x or 6x in a row. It's the reason I have not PvPd in 2+ weeks.

 

If nothing else, Bioware needs to make certain there is map variety. I used to like Voidstar AND Ancient Hypergates. Now? No.

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An opinion with which I emphatically disagree. Players that are used to backfill are now trapped in a quagmire of suck from which they cannot escape without penalty. These are virtually always BADLY lopsided games.

 

So what? Backfills suck sometimes, but man up and just finish the match. Lots of times I've backfilled and we actually ended up winning.

 

The deserter debuff also affects people whose connection is severed through no fault of their own, and it disproportionally punishes solo queuers as a result of these two enormous problems.

 

I've been playing since launch and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been disconnected. If you have frequent DC issues then you need to talk with your ISP and fix your internet.

 

Then there is the problem of map streaks. Two or three maps will be presented time, and time, and time, and time, and time, and time again...ad nauseam.

 

So what? It happens sometimes, aint that big of a deal.

 

I know there are maps you dislike. Do you think it's fun getting the map you dislike most time and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again?

Hypergate.....and that's about it, but I like pvp so the map rotations don't bother me and getting repeated maps are nowhere near as common as you like to exaggerate it to be.

 

A few like the deserter debuff, but more and more are coming to loathe it. I have always loathed it, but not because I made a habit of deserting, but because of the problems listed above.

 

I never see anyone in game complain about the deserter debuff. I only ever see it here on the forums.....where about 10 people consistently post. Not exactly a high metric to look at. If it was actually a problem, BW would have removed it.

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This.

 

The lockout timer and the win requirement on the dailies are both good things. PvP has been way better since they implemented that stuff. People actually try now in warzones.

 

The concept is good, the implementation of it is horrid because of the other changes that did and didn’t go along with it.

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So what? Backfills suck sometimes, but man up and just finish the match. Lots of times I've backfilled and we actually ended up winning.

 

 

 

I've been playing since launch and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been disconnected. If you have frequent DC issues then you need to talk with your ISP and fix your internet.

 

 

 

So what? It happens sometimes, aint that big of a deal.

 

 

Hypergate.....and that's about it, but I like pvp so the map rotations don't bother me and getting repeated maps are nowhere near as common as you like to exaggerate it to be.

 

 

 

I never see anyone in game complain about the deserter debuff. I only ever see it here on the forums.....where about 10 people consistently post. Not exactly a high metric to look at. If it was actually a problem, BW would have removed it.

This entire post seems to ignore the premise that games are supposed to be fun. JS.

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yes let players select their type of match, 8 v 8 or 4v4. In fact Im done with watching the pugs stomp teams and teams stop pugs. If we really want players to learn pvp, give them some damn hope. The team matches need to be versus other teams nothing else. as for reducing the ranks all that will happen is players wont start pvping until they are 75, achieves nothing.

 

remove mat rewards from pvp, remove conquest rewards from pvp. regs dont necessarily need pvp gear but damn min requirements at lvl 75 should be at least the level of gear you get on the final planets, no brainer to me.

 

way too many afk and win trading going on now, its why so many leave matches they are pointless.

 

What's really going on is players liked their participation medals they used to get, **** little work and voila they still get to complete daily/weekly. So now they just switch who loses day in and day out. Change it its pvp..at least 1 kill when your team wins to get the win count towards your daily/weekly. How Fn hard is that to code? You can easily make the rewards crystals and other pvp gear, bind it make it user only I dont care but stop rewarding pve in pvp its what started this mess in the first place.

 

pvp and pve do not mix..and if you really cant or wont stop trying to force this, you need to make a decision what this game is.

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