Whats the point of playing Sith/Jedi classes?

[Zafax]

Well, the title says everything. What is the point of playing Sith / Jedi classes when classes like operative or mercenary doing everything better, especially in PvP.

I mean, i would love to play sorc for example, but merc has a 12 sec full to 70% life heal, dmg reduction shield, Heals for between, A reflect that heals a big amount too ah and dont forget that the dmg reduction heals about 40% life too.

The Dmg is about the same or even better in comparison.

 

When i play Sorc in pvp, it feels like a nightmare in comparison. The heals of sorc are a joke against that insane merc healing. The mobility is about the same too.

 

I like the classes in general, but it feels so sad and underwhelming to play Sith/jedi Chars.

 

Same **** with sith/jedi assassin in comparison to operative. It just feels like operative does the same, but better

Sith/jedi Classes should be at least at the same strength...i mean they are damn Jedis and Sith!

I mean, is there any reason why i should pick a sith/jedi class instead of the military onces?

What is your experience?

Edited March 20, 2021 by Zafax

[xordevoreaux]

Well, having played 190 something toons now, I say... play what you want... don't stress about classes... and have fun.

[Zafax]

Well its not rly fun when the only cool thing about Jedi/Sith classes is the role play aspect....

Its not Fun when other classes doing so much better, because the role play aspect of being a cool Darth with nice lighting powers doesnt help me in other content.

[Ahwassa]

Lightning sorcs can be very tanky and have high dps.

 

Just today I was in an reg arena and I had to heal a low equipped sorc with my sorc. Our team focussed a PT who was healed by a merc healer. Guess who won? Our team. As a sorc heal with endless offensive my biggest heals can´t be interrupted. Yes merc can heal more but only if your team lets him freecast (I won´t let him).

 

It´s all about perspective and content. A PT in nim? Great. A PT in pvp? Meh. An experienced and guarded PT in PvP? Great.

 

I´m not saying this or that class is bad is this or that content. With enough experience all classes are great.

And as others said - all classes are fine in regs. Play what you want and get experience.

 

Also the point of playing Sith classes is glowsticks lol. Warrior and Inquisitor are just so beautifull imo.

[foxmob]

BioWare doesn't balance well at all from a pvp perspective.

 

I take it by your rant that you don't tank in pvp, b/c jugg tank is easily the best in that department.

 

but I feel your pain. it has been a while since any creature with opposable thumbs (and many w/o) could roll a jugg or mara and just smash through WZs or since sorc bubble was dragging WZs to a literal standstill and prevented stealth dps from doing the one thing they're fundamentally designed to do: open from stealth and control their opponent.

 

none of that would have been bad if not for the fact that BW let it go on for ages and ages. sorcs aren't bad healers, btw. they're not as good as ops, but they're not bad. I wouldn't complain too loudly on that front.

 

PTs aren't exactly loving life right now in pvp either. (although anything is viable in regs. anything.)

 

I could go on. but I think the biggest issue isn't the current state of class/spec balance so much that it just doesn't change much. If a pvp season lasts 12 months, I would like to see a significant rebalance patch in month 6, preferably 2 or 3 in a 12 month season. that way, even if they mess up big time (like with smash/bubble) it doesn't last forever or ruin an entire season (or seasons lol).

[Vandicus]

Can't speak to the current balance of healing but prior to the changes for merc defensive CDs and addition of their new one they were pretty much auto-target in pvp. They didn't have anything to stop them from being simply burst down. Mercs also had the longest to wait to get any form of interrupt.

 

The reflect works in a specific way. It reflects 50% of single-target damage(and negates the remaining 50%) and heals for 5% each time someone does a single-target attack. Lasts for 6 seconds. This is the main defensive CD(the other two you can dps through) and you just have to ignore them a bit or started dropping aoe(pretty effective if they were low when they activated it).

 

Merc mobility is worse than Sorc which is worse than operative.

 

It's an MMO so different classes have been strong at different points. Your impressions might not reflect the reality of current balance though, active raiders and ranked players would have a better idea.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vandicus

[Zafax]

Lightning sorcs can be very tanky and have high dps.

 

Just today I was in an reg arena and I had to heal a low equipped sorc with my sorc. Our team focussed a PT who was healed by a merc healer. Guess who won? Our team. As a sorc heal with endless offensive my biggest heals can´t be interrupted. Yes merc can heal more but only if your team lets him freecast (I won´t let him).

 

It´s all about perspective and content. A PT in nim? Great. A PT in pvp? Meh. An experienced and guarded PT in PvP? Great.

 

I´m not saying this or that class is bad is this or that content. With enough experience all classes are great.

And as others said - all classes are fine in regs. Play what you want and get experience.

 

Also the point of playing Sith classes is glowsticks lol. Warrior and Inquisitor are just so beautifull imo.

 

sry, maybe i wasnt clear enough. I am playing DDs, no Healers. the DD Merc heals like a damn god while sorcs defense on other hand are complete **** in comparison. its a complete joke

[Zafax]

Can't speak to the current balance of healing but prior to the changes for merc defensive CDs and addition of their new one they were pretty much auto-target in pvp. They didn't have anything to stop them from being simply burst down. Mercs also had the longest to wait to get any form of interrupt.

 

The reflect works in a specific way. It reflects 50% of single-target damage(and negates the remaining 50%) and heals for 5% each time someone does a single-target attack. Lasts for 6 seconds. This is the main defensive CD(the other two you can dps through) and you just have to ignore them a bit or started dropping aoe(pretty effective if they were low when they activated it).

 

Merc mobility is worse than Sorc which is worse than operative.

 

It's an MMO so different classes have been strong at different points. Your impressions might not reflect the reality of current balance though, active raiders and ranked players would have a better idea.

 

u can dps through the other? i dont think so...i fought against one and there is no way i can dps through this 12 sec up to 70% heal skill. Maybe when 2 ppl attacking him, yes, but alone? doesnt work.

+ their dmg reduction shield heals for 40% health too.

 

Sorc heal is..ehm yeah...every 25 sec a heal about 8% of my life..and a hot..that heals for like 5% of my life...oh and dont forget the shield! ah yes a skill that makes me invincible for 8 sec..doesnt sound better then a skill that heals me like a god for 12 sec to be honest.

 

Merc mobility is worse? 2 charges of jumps and a backnock + speedboost doesnt sound worse then 1 tp with insane cd and all 15 sec speedboost and knockback.

 

their mobility is about the same.

[Vandicus]

u can dps through the other? i dont think so...i fought against one and there is no way i can dps through this 12 sec up to 70% heal skill. Maybe when 2 ppl attacking him, yes, but alone? doesnt work.

+ their dmg reduction shield heals for 40% health too.

 

Sorc heal is..ehm yeah...every 25 sec a heal about 8% of my life..and a hot..that heals for like 5% of my life...oh and dont forget the shield! ah yes a skill that makes me invincible for 8 sec..doesnt sound better then a skill that heals me like a god for 12 sec to be honest.

 

Merc mobility is worse? 2 charges of jumps and a backnock + speedboost doesnt sound worse then 1 tp with insane cd and all 15 sec speedboost and knockback.

 

their mobility is about the same.

 

Yeah having 2 or more people attacking someone is kind of how pvp works. So the self-heal and shield are really only all that effective if in a 1v1 situation or against poor play. The heal from the shield ending only takes place when the buff is removed(a player can also click it off themselves if needed) so it's easily possible to burst through their hp if they don't have their more powerful defensive cd up.

 

The Merc jump can't be activated if you're rooted. And it sends you backwards. The speedboost on mercs is really quite mediocre compared to other forms of mobility in the game, it's mostly for disabling roots. Try hutt ball as a merc sometime.

 

If your point is that mercs have really good defensive cds for a 1v1, I'm inclined to agree. But their 2 original defensive CDs used to be much weaker and they didn't even have their third powerful defensive CD a couple years back.

 

General tip for pvp is to use a stun on a target that other people are targetting with timing to prevent them from using their defensive cds.

[Zafax]

Yeah having 2 or more people attacking someone is kind of how pvp works. So the self-heal and shield are really only all that effective if in a 1v1 situation or against poor play. The heal from the shield ending only takes place when the buff is removed(a player can also click it off themselves if needed) so it's easily possible to burst through their hp if they don't have their more powerful defensive cd up.

 

The Merc jump can't be activated if you're rooted. And it sends you backwards. The speedboost on mercs is really quite mediocre compared to other forms of mobility in the game, it's mostly for disabling roots. Try hutt ball as a merc sometime.

 

If your point is that mercs have really good defensive cds for a 1v1, I'm inclined to agree. But their 2 original defensive CDs used to be much weaker and they didn't even have their third powerful defensive CD a couple years back.

 

General tip for pvp is to use a stun on a target that other people are targetting with timing to prevent them from using their defensive cds.

 

Lol. When u want to talk about 2 ppl attacking one person, then sorc is way faster dead then a merc with his insane good def cds xD the heal is rly good, sorc can tp once and go in bubble...what only gives him 8 secs more to live and then he dies...like..sorc cant rly do much against that. His Healing is insane bad. Merc can heal like twice to tripple of his life while sorc can heal maybe..half of his life? seems balanced^^

 

and to the mobility, yes the root removle is worse , but overall the mobility is at the same level. I mean, i just played a game with it and it just feels so much better then sorc

[Zafax]

ah and dont forget that the merc has way less things to cast then the sorc^^ thats some better mobiliity too

[foxmob]

u can dps through the other? i dont think so...i fought against one and there is no way i can dps through this 12 sec up to 70% heal skill. Maybe when 2 ppl attacking him, yes, but alone? doesnt work.

+ their dmg reduction shield heals for 40% health too.

this does sound like something of a L2P issue.

 

when merc pops his reflect (orange, responsive safeguards), he will only heal if you single target damage him. you should never do more than 1 tick of damage to him, which means he should only get 1 tick of healing, and you should only take 1 tick of reflect damage. this would be a good time to either A) force lift him and heal yourself or B) use aoe abilities, which go through his shield, do not reflect back to you, do not heal him. You could also stun him, but I would recommend holding onto your stuns for a burst opportunity where you can single target him and do more damage.

 

what the prior poster meant by "dps through the other defensive cooldowns" is that no other merc cooldown requires you to stop dpsing him.

 

this is the same basic strategy involved in fighting jugg reflect and their h2f (ED?).

 

as the other poster said, you shouldn't be trying to 1v1 your opponent. that's not pvp. that's a duel. you should be working with your team (arenas or WZs) to focus fire down your enemy. and I assure you, 2 ppl can dps through kolto or energy shield. unless you're on a cleave team, you prolly don't wanna do that with reflect though.

[DaZeeZee]

For PVE or PVP? For PVE, Jedi and Sith make better tanks, and some of the melee dps specs are top dps. aside from that, the ones that arent "best" are good enough and not far behind save for 1-2 specs.

[xordevoreaux]

Whats the point of playing Sith/Jedi classes?

Ask George Lucas what he'd think about rewriting the Star Wars franchise without any force wielders.

Star Wars isn't Star Wars without its mystical element.

[Hadsil]

I don't play PvP. For those who do hooray for them. If you have an issue with Sith or Jedi that's your problem. I play Sith and Jedi classes for the game, for the story, for the fun of playing them.

 

My least favorite class is Agent Operative. I can find no strategy in using its abilities. I run out of energy to use them more than half the time. Damage is terrible even mooks take awhile to drop. It has almost non-existent area attacks. I have the least fun playing it. The Sniper subclass is fine. That's lots of fun. I'm sure other people find the Operative great fun. Hooray for them. It has Stealth, so it's not a total loss. I got good use out of that at least.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Hadsil

[Zafax]

this does sound like something of a L2P issue.

 

when merc pops his reflect (orange, responsive safeguards), he will only heal if you single target damage him. you should never do more than 1 tick of damage to him, which means he should only get 1 tick of healing, and you should only take 1 tick of reflect damage. this would be a good time to either A) force lift him and heal yourself or B) use aoe abilities, which go through his shield, do not reflect back to you, do not heal him. You could also stun him, but I would recommend holding onto your stuns for a burst opportunity where you can single target him and do more damage.

 

what the prior poster meant by "dps through the other defensive cooldowns" is that no other merc cooldown requires you to stop dpsing him.

 

this is the same basic strategy involved in fighting jugg reflect and their h2f (ED?).

 

as the other poster said, you shouldn't be trying to 1v1 your opponent. that's not pvp. that's a duel. you should be working with your team (arenas or WZs) to focus fire down your enemy. and I assure you, 2 ppl can dps through kolto or energy shield. unless you're on a cleave team, you prolly don't wanna do that with reflect though.

 

Of course u shouldnt attack him into the reflect, but even when u do this its still 6 sec where he can attack u and deal dmg while u cant.

btw duels (1vs1) are pvp too...like..player vs player u know?

Even when u look at bgs, a merc is still more useful then a sorc. Sorc get focused, u can kite as good as u can, the dmg will always outdamage your "heals", so you -> port away to heal up or you go in invincible bubble, but this **** doesnt heal you too and just gives you 8 secs of time.

 

Now look at the merc...he gets focused..alrighty lets pop reflect. 6 sec no one can attacks you, if they does you deal dmg and heal + u can kite too of course. Hey they are still at you? no problem! lets pop the kolto heal! another 10 sec where you can heal against the dps...and dont forget about barrier (or the scan, that is basically the same heal that sorc has). Merc can keep doing dmg while his defense abilites are activated, sorc -> port away to heal up = no dmg, sorc super bubble = no dmg too

 

ah and dont forget that merc, because they dont rly need to cast or to stand still, can still deal their full dmg while sorc...yeah..not rly

 

u cant tell me that a sorc is doing a better job then a merc

Edited March 21, 2021 by Zafax

[JediQuaker]

Well, the title says everything. What is the point of playing Sith / Jedi classes when classes like operative or mercenary doing everything better, especially in PvP.

There is more - much more - to SWTOR than just PvP.

I don't PvP so I can't remark on the current, if any, OP class-du-jour, but in PVE you're not going to find any really substantive difference in the effectiveness of any class, beyond your own individual ability to play it.

 

Play whatever class you like. Better yet, play them all.

[eabevella]

Don't care about PVP.

Laser swords are cool.

Force choke and Force lightning fools are fun lol

Force pebble Sith and Imperial to death is pretty neat too

[foxmob]

Of course u shouldnt attack him into the reflect, but even when u do this its still 6 sec where he can attack u and deal dmg while u cant.

 

buddy, you weren't "listening" -- at all. that's why this is a L2P issue. now please read what comes next:

 

you can and should dps during reflect, but you should do so using aoe abilities (e.g., storm lightning). in the absence of aoe (or if you're low hp) use CC (e.g., force lift). you do not need to CC or aoe the other merc DCDs.

 

this may come as a surprise to you but mercs, PTs, snipers, and OPs all have to deal with merc reflect too, and it is not godmode. in fact, it's dealt with easily the same as jugg reflect. by saying that they're untouchable for 6 seconds and they get a free 70% heal, you are either fictionalizing the ability or you simply don't know its mechanics. so which is it: L2P or were you purposely lying?

 

as for the actual issue of balance, I already stated that BW is really bad at balance. It's not b/c mercs have X, Y, and Z abilities but because BW doesn't do much of anything to swing the class/spec balance pendulum once they've done their big (bi-annual?) balancing. Personally, I think all classes have too much mobility and too many defenses, which I think are the result of balancing (at least PvP-wise) for solo play.

[Zafax]

buddy, you weren't "listening" -- at all. that's why this is a L2P issue. now please read what comes next:

 

you can and should dps during reflect, but you should do so using aoe abilities (e.g., storm lightning). in the absence of aoe (or if you're low hp) use CC (e.g., force lift). you do not need to CC or aoe the other merc DCDs.

 

this may come as a surprise to you but mercs, PTs, snipers, and OPs all have to deal with merc reflect too, and it is not godmode. in fact, it's dealt with easily the same as jugg reflect. by saying that they're untouchable for 6 seconds and they get a free 70% heal, you are either fictionalizing the ability or you simply don't know its mechanics. so which is it: L2P or were you purposely lying?

 

as for the actual issue of balance, I already stated that BW is really bad at balance. It's not b/c mercs have X, Y, and Z abilities but because BW doesn't do much of anything to swing the class/spec balance pendulum once they've done their big (bi-annual?) balancing. Personally, I think all classes have too much mobility and too many defenses, which I think are the result of balancing (at least PvP-wise) for solo play.

 

-> you can and should dps during reflect, but you should do so using aoe abilities (e.g., storm lightning) yeah..because they deal so much dmg Oo so u have to decide to do no dmg or low dmg..seems legit^^

 

-> merc reflect is not godmode. Where did i call it godmode? Oo i said, that the overall healing of a merc is godlike in comparison to a sorc or other classes. Like a merc can heal about 150% of his life with ease. Try this with Sorc.

 

When i play pvp, its just a joke when we focus a sorc. This guy can use his tp once and when u use net from merc he cant even use his invincible bubble. These sorcs are dying fast af. They got some dmg reduction, like every other class too, but their only 2 insta heals healing for about 8% and 5% of their life + the 8% one has a 25 sec cd (+ additionally the merc has the same 8% heal too).

 

they get a free 70% heal -> well..im saying this because they have? how mentioned, i just played many games with merc and this is the perfect oh **** button. It will get u back on 70% life, healing most of the dmg u get and keeping you alive for 10 sec.

 

-> L2P or were you purposely lying? What is it mate, purpsely being ignorant or just rly the fact that u dont understand what i mean?

 

Compare def CDs from Merc with def CDs from sorc = Sorcs def cds are worse.

 

The Point why i made this topic is, because i just dont understand how BW can give one class so many strong things while other classes have to handle bad to rarely no good def cds.

 

I mean its the same thing with operative and Sith assa. Operative got nice healing, got a shield, got dodge..sleeping arrow reducing the dmg of the enemy for 50% 10 seconds long!

What does the Assa has? ehm...one dmg cd heals him for 15% of his life..ah yes...great.

 

I rly love the style and feeling of Sith/jedi classes, but damn BW has to balance them way better because it feels weak and like lost potencial to play one of these when its getting competetive.

[robertthebard]

There is a simple solution to the OP's dilemma: If you don't like them, don't play them. It doesn't matter what mode you're playing in, you can simply avoid all the angst, and just play what you like.

[Zafax]

 

they don't heal for 70%. YOU heal them for 70% because you (or your teammates) are too stupid to recognize that he has activated reflect, and you need to NOT SINGLE TARGET DPS HIM.

 

as for your whining about aoe doing less dmg than single target: no kidding. instead of healing him and getting 50% of the dps reflected back at you, you're doing some damage to him while he ISN'T getting his passive healing. If he's a good merc, he's not popping reflect until he's fairly low, and he does this because he's counting on you (or your teammates) being BAD dps and hitting him with single target abilities for 6 seconds. powerful ability? yes. instant 70% heal? only if the other player(s) are stupid.

 

Yeah i see...u dont know what im talking about. the reflect doesnt heal for 70% and i never said this. i talked about kolto heal, another very strong def cd. Sry that u are not able to read correctly.

basically your whole last answer was just dumb ( sry i tried to keep it friendly )

I already explained to you, that i dont talk just about ONE of their deff cds, this wouldnt make sense...i talk about their whole defense kit in comparison to other classes.

I hope u finally understand this

 

You should rly care more about what u saying, especially when u dont do what u are saying...

->buddy, you weren't "listening" -- at all. that's why this is a L2P issue. now please read what comes next

 

maybe u should start read first..."learn to read" issue here^^

 

ah and dont forget that u rly have to explain how a ability comparison is a l2p issue..like what? its not even about the playing, its just an ability comparison xD That rly shows your intellectual level.

its like a comparison between cars, where one is faster then another and u say: learn to drive better..like what? My skill doesnt change the facts about how fast they are..same with the def cds of sorc and merc in comparison..

Edited March 21, 2021 by Zafax

[Zafax]

 

they don't heal for 70%. YOU heal them for 70% because you (or your teammates) are too stupid to recognize that he has activated reflect, and you need to NOT SINGLE TARGET DPS HIM.

 

as for your whining about aoe doing less dmg than single target: no kidding. instead of healing him and getting 50% of the dps reflected back at you, you're doing some damage to him while he ISN'T getting his passive healing. If he's a good merc, he's not popping reflect until he's fairly low, and he does this because he's counting on you (or your teammates) being BAD dps and hitting him with single target abilities for 6 seconds. powerful ability? yes. instant 70% heal? only if the other player(s) are stupid.

 

here i copied it so u dont have to search it..

 

Now look at the merc...he gets focused..alrighty lets pop reflect. 6 sec no one can attacks you, if they does you deal dmg and heal + u can kite too of course. Hey they are still at you? no problem! lets pop the kolto heal! another 10 sec where you can heal against the dps...and dont forget about barrier (or the scan, that is basically the same heal that sorc has)....

Edited March 21, 2021 by Zafax

[foxmob]

kolto is 60% talented. you should dps through it. or cc I suppose. but if 2 ppl can't burst through it, those 2 ppl are bad.

 

been over reflect ad nauseum. begone.

 

once again, I've stated that BW needs to do more balance. then I pointed out that your characterization of reflect was wrong and based on BAD game play on the part of the person(s) dpsing into the reflect or thinking that they can't do anything against it. another poster pointed this out. you argued against it. I pointed out that he had a point. you refuse to accept this basic fact.

Edited March 21, 2021 by foxmob

[Zafax]

kolto is 60% talented. you should dps through it. or cc I suppose. but if 2 ppl can't burst through it, those 2 ppl are bad.

 

been over reflect ad nauseum. begone.

 

once again, I've stated that BW needs to do more balance. then I pointed out that your characterization of reflect was wrong and based on BAD game play on the part of the person(s) dpsing into the reflect or thinking that they can't do anything against it. another poster pointed this out. you argued against it. I pointed out that he had a point. you refuse to accept this basic fact.

 

okay first, u didnt understood the point and called me stupid and i should read better while u were the person that didnt read correctly x)

 

i agree that BW should balance this way better.

 

my characterization of reflect isnt wrong. its a hughe heal if u get dpsed or it forces ppl to do no dmg or low dmg to you. thats a strong defense and already stronger then almost everything a sorc has.

u added this "u can still do low dmg with aoes" things, so thats correct and i agree there.

 

Its just sad that swtor feels like u are forced to play certain classes because they just perform better, because for me personal its way more sytlish to play as a sith (for example sorc) then a merc, but well..merc feels just so much better when its about the numbers and skills and not the animation.

 

to your dps through kolto..when 2 ppl attacking me while kolto is active, it doesnt push me back to 70% in most cases, but its enough to keep me on a level at least. The healing from this skill is very strong.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Zafax