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My personal thoughts of SWTOR story as it is.


Rhys_lightning

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I remembered back in 2011 when Star wars the old republic was first released, I was that excited of a star wars MMO RPG set 300 years after the events of KOTOR based upon the heroes of the Republic (Knight, Consular, Trooper and smuggler). and the Villains of the Sith Empire (Warrior, Inquisitor, Agent and Hunter). And with too the default faction stories of both Empire and Republic, Maximum of ten stories in total. It too carried the perfect balance, as it was never about the Jedi or the Sith back in KOTOR, it's now about all these ten stories and these eight character's they're the main protagonists of this game, and each story held a unique balance, rep gaining victories and losses and Empire gaining victories and losses, it was a perfect story and balance. But thats when the extra expansions come in .

 

Rise of the Hutt Cartell

 

While some may not see it as their personal favourite story (though to me a liked it) It held a perfect balance to the story for each faction for the republic and empire.

 

For the Republic, their goal was to get the people of Makeb off the planet, as they believe the planet is about to destroy itself.

 

For the Empire, they deployed a small team to aquire a resource of Isotope 5 and save the planets destruction.

 

Each side had a uniqe story and a unique balance, keeping both sides equal.

 

Shadow of Revan

 

Within the prelude for both sides, as again it held the perfect balance, as for the empire attacking typhon, and the Republic attacking korriban, both sides later return to recover ones base, but which we later learnt through the story was based by the order of Revan, led by Revan himself. Now from here, as stories for both sides tried to remian balance, the story is more led focus upon ones personal class, but without disrupting the balance of each faction.

 

Knights of the Fallen Empire

 

Now this one was conflicting to me, as Bioware later released this expansion introducing a whole new third faction The Eternal Empire, in which your main character was frozen for five whole years, the biggest mistake they could've made, for not only has it damaged the story, but too for the RP communities (yes I do think for the Rper's) as whole five years thrown to waist upon this story, five years they could've used for more potential stories, as their is alot of planets in Star wars, to me this felt as a giant waste. The story too dragged itself for too long, waiting every month or two for an additional story, which eventually got boring, part me just wante dit to end so it can focus back upon the games true purpose of the republic and empire, not these 2 additional factions of the Eternal Empire and the Alliance.

 

And to op it off, it took away the uniqueness of companions, now that anyone can use any companion they want instead of keeping to their originals.

 

Knights of the Eternal Throne

 

To me was more of a waste of a drag on from KOTFE, again too highly focused on this faction derailing it's self from the games true purpose, but in the end of it all, you either become peace keeper or emperor/empress, something that high no one would think how ones character could gain more then this.

 

Fractured alliance

 

By far, the biggest waist of story, and the biggest mistake ever made, mostly the war on Iokath story, as this story broked one of the most very big important rules in MMO RPG'S , killing off a very high important character of your choice. something as that should remain in single player mmo's like KOTOR, not this. As you either kill, Jace malcom, or Acina, in which this too damages and divides the Roleplayers of Swtor, as some say acina is dead and Vowran is emperor, or some say malcoms dead and Acina is empress still, this has caused great damage, and ruining the balance of the game.

 

Jedi under siege

 

Part me felt glad we're fully done with the whole Zakuul, but however the story still remained huge problems, as this is all focused upon republic versus Empire, it has not brought balance to the story, as the Alliance is still their, and it has now become nothing more but favouritism, but to top it off, you have a choice to become a sabatour, becoming now that no matter what you play or who faction you're in, you decide who should win based upon personal favouritism, same example of mistakes they made on Iokath, making the story feel entirely pointless, choosing who lives and who dies, who wins and who looses.

 

Onsalught

 

I dont really need to explain on this, as this is again highly much the same as with Jedi under siege, destroying game balance, focused upon favouratism, turning it into a focus of a single player based game then a MMO story based game, where both sides get equal results, and thus again damaging and the RP community too.

 

Personal thoughts and solutions

 

I have played echoes of oblivion update but I wont put much here as I dont want to give away giant spoilers.

 

but for the future of the games story (and too for the RP community) I hope bioware become less lazy and think upon the republic and Empire factions as equal, not based upon ones favouritism, mostly the jedi knight in default and the alliance, so how should they improve and rebalance everything to bring things equal for all

 

Disband the Alliance: as this is the main source of the problem in the story, this third faction that no longer needs to continue and is what is bringing everything to unbalance, it must be removed/ disbanded, and to highly focus upon each of the 2 key factions and to both share victories and losses.

 

Then who is alive and who is dead?: To fix this, it's best something comes to the story where those pass choices become irrelevant, example being whether you had acina or vowran leading the empire, in the end they should bring in a new sith leader to lead the empire,, like make malgus emperor or bring back old legends like jadus to be emperor, or bring a new emperor/empress to lead the empire, so they can remain as an important figure.

 

This too can be shared for rest of key characters how lived or died, as it's best they be replaced by permanent figures who we do not killed based upon favouritism.

 

What about the saboteur role?: well to me, either way the saboteur is bound to get caught, so what maybe best if any future upcoming stories come, is that the saboteur gets caught and taken to prison of treason, but later as which ever faction is struggling brings the chosen class back to help them win the war, but must regain the trust of the faction but with under restraints and rules to help their true faction win.

 

Like I said, these are my personal thoughts, as I feel that this game is slowly becoming like KOTOR, now dont get me wrong I love KOTOR, but this is a MMO RPG, there is no full 100% single player choices (which ofcourse in story and cut scenes you have choices) but not to let one decide who win/looses, and which very important key figure lives/dies, as I felt bioware have gotten highly lazy and forgot of what this game is truly is about, now I do love swtor, the pve, the pvp and the RP, but this is more for the story and those of rp who struggle to keep to a story default, things need to be fixed. Things need to be brought back to balance then solely focused upon personal favouritism, as mostly too with trailers keeping with jedi knight at default, not sharing other classes as the mains to the trailer, if disagree what i put then thats fine, it's ones view of opinion and I do like to hear others thoughts and opinions of it, but I just hope you least understand where I am coming from with this, I thank you for taking your time reading this and would like to hear your thought.,

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This is probably one of the weirdest posts I've ever read in these forums.

Basically, you're advocating for them to take away any real choice we have and stream-line the story even more than what it already is. Truly boggles the mind.

What's even funnier is you trying to use RPers as a justification. Your logic makes absolutely no sense. RP is literally based on creating new stories and choosing a setting. Most of the time not even being influenced by SWTOR's story at all.

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This is probably one of the weirdest posts I've ever read in these forums.

Basically, you're advocating for them to take away any real choice we have and stream-line the story even more than what it already is. Truly boggles the mind.

What's even funnier is you trying to use RPers as a justification. Your logic makes absolutely no sense. RP is literally based on creating new stories and choosing a setting. Most of the time not even being influenced by SWTOR's story at all.

 

What I'm saying is the story is lacking balance for both sides, and that it is surrounded upon favouritism and is operating a single player rpg not a mmo rpg, and it's derailing itself from the games true meaning. This game is about Republic versus Empire. NOT this Alliance that chooses who win/looses and it just topples it's story, and just makes the story pointless, if they disbanded the alliance after KOTET and properly focused on balancing the war with the republic and empire, where each side has their wins and losses, then it makes both sides of the story worth playing. But now playing and choosing on who should win based on favouritism, all I ask is they just remove that problem (which is the alliance) and just focus on both factions (the empire and republic) equally and make a story balance, for just having 4 different routes choosing upon favouritism, it's just not that fun or unique.

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He has a point. No matter what RP someone did, it was usually set in a predetermined universe. With the current choices and their influences, what is being done to that universe is that there is one for every combination of choices. There is a reason why the RP community stays away from interfering with powerful NPCs. For example, do you RP in an Empire where the ruler is Acina or Vowrawn? Is the Alliance still a thing or has it been disbanded? Who is winning the war? Who is in a better shape? Those are all based on the choices of thousands of players, whereas with Makeb and before there was one setting to RP around, now you have thousands and the RP has gone to the gutter filled with isolated cliques that each follow their own favorite story. This in turn makes it uninviting for newcommers. Edited by Skotnica
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What I'm saying is the story is lacking balance for both sides, and that it is surrounded upon favouritism and is operating a single player rpg not a mmo rpg, and it's derailing itself from the games true meaning. This game is about Republic versus Empire. NOT this Alliance that chooses who win/looses and it just topples it's story, and just makes the story pointless, if they disbanded the alliance after KOTET and properly focused on balancing the war with the republic and empire, where each side has their wins and losses, then it makes both sides of the story worth playing. But now playing and choosing on who should win based on favouritism, all I ask is they just remove that problem (which is the alliance) and just focus on both factions (the empire and republic) equally and make a story balance, for just having 4 different routes choosing upon favouritism, it's just not that fun or unique.

 

This game is about Star Wars in the era of the Old Republic, that's it.

 

About what you said next, we've already seen it. We've already had a really long time where the factions were balanced, eventually one of them has to get the upper hand because if not it would become pointless. The story doesn't become pointless if they're not balanced, it becomes pointless if no matter what you do, nothing really changes. And it's not like they're even forcing one side to win over the other no matter what like they did with Makeb (even if both logic and lore demand the Republic to win), so you still get to choose which faction is winning.

 

Plus, your point about favoritism is kinda invalid, everything you do is about what you prefer and want to do. It's impossible to run away from it, by giving players a choice you are always putting it up for favoritism, unless you give them no real choice, only then is favoritism actually excluded. If the factions are constantly balanced and the player is never given the chance to tip the scales, of course there's no favoritism, but then where's your choice? Where's the point of even following the story? Why do you think we got expansions like SOR and KOTFE/KOTET, bc you can only create a story about an unchanged war for so long without it becoming stale and boring.

 

He has a point. No matter what RP someone did, it was usually set in a predetermined universe. With the current choices and their influences, what is being done to that universe is that there is one for every combination of choices. There is a reason why the RP community stays away from interfering with powerful NPCs. For example, do you RP in an Empire where the ruler is Acina or Vowrawn? Is the Alliance still a thing or has it been disbanded? Who is winning the war? Who is in a better shape? Those are all based on the choices of thousands of players, whereas with Makeb and before there was one setting to RP around, now you have thousands and the RP has gone to the gutter filled with isolated cliques that each follow their own favorite story. This in turn makes it uninviting for newcommers.

 

Not really. RP has always been done in a predetermined setting. This isn't a new problem, and it's not even a problem caused by these bigger choices. This "problem" has always been around, if you have 3 Jedi Knights RPing, did the 3 of them become the Hero of Tython and kill the Emperor? Of course not. How do you fix it? You create a predetermined setting, giving new stories to each one. Same thing with all the big decisions introduced after. Who is the Emperor? You decide beforehand. Is the Alliance disbanded and who is in better shape? Same thing, decided when creating the setting for the RP session.

 

This has never been an issue. Like I said before, RP is about new stories, not the story we get in SWTOR, as that one is obviously tailored for individuals, and RP is supposed to be done in a group.

 

Even if this was an actual problem, which it's not, it would be ridiculous to ask writers to continuously create an interesting story while fundamentally not changing anything, may as well not have a story at all.

Edited by JJKerryee
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Not really. RP has always been done in a predetermined setting. This isn't a new problem, and it's not even a problem caused by these bigger choices. This "problem" has always been around, if you have 3 Jedi Knights RPing, did the 3 of them become the Hero of Tython and kill the Emperor? Of course not. How do you fix it? You create a predetermined setting, giving new stories to each one. Same thing with all the big decisions introduced after. Who is the Emperor? You decide beforehand. Is the Alliance disbanded and who is in better shape? Same thing, decided when creating the setting for the RP session.

 

Yeah, but it's a lot harder to get everyone to agree on, say, who the current emperor is, who won the battle of Corellia, or who is still alive, than it is to get everyone to agree "My character is not the player character in the game's narrative." Those aren't really comparable conflicts or concessions.

 

Let's say I'm doing some cantina RP. My character is an engineer, who grew up on Corellia and working in the Corellian shipyards. My character mentions that they're so grateful the Republic protected the shipyards because, hard as life was, they have so many loved ones who lived and died there, and they'd rather not see the Empire take over.

 

Person B in the cantina then responds, "What are you talking about? I played Onslaught, and when I did the Republic failed."

 

 

It makes simple walk-up or pick-up RP especially hard in particular, but even in guild/community settings can lead to significant disconnect, especially for players who misunderstand, have not yet gotten up to speed on the content, or who don't want to navigate seven different guilds each with their own states of the Galaxy that can vary as much as who is in charge of the two major governments in the galaxy.

 

This has never been an issue. Like I said before, RP is about new stories, not the story we get in SWTOR, as that one is obviously tailored for individuals, and RP is supposed to be done in a group.

 

You're still RPing in the world and universe laid out by the narrative of SWTOR; you can't do that and have a narrative with multiple, conflicting realities.

 

Even if this was an actual problem, which it's not, it would be ridiculous to ask writers to continuously create an interesting story while fundamentally not changing anything, may as well not have a story at all.

 

Things can change. The issue is that these changes have multiple, inherently-contradictory possibilities, not that they are changes.

 

It doesn't hurt RPers to have Empress Acina die. Most welcome those sorts of changes because it leads to very interesting narrative environments to play around with. How would an alien Imperial handle the death of the most pro-alien Emperor to rule? How would your average soldier, or citizen, react? What does a power-hungry Sith think, or a reformist Sith? Does it inspire hope or fear in the Republic? Does a Jedi care?

 

Those are all really, really interesting questions. And they're really fun to write around.

 

What's not fun is that any given person you're writing with may be playing their character in a completely different universe. What happens when things my character has done -- and does -- for more than a year now are a direct result of the Empire losing the battle of Corellia, but then I'm RPing with a person, or a group, whose character development is contingent on the empire winning?

 

It really hurts continuity, and it makes RP a lot harder than it needs to be. You're basically forced to never touch what's happening in the game (which is the opposite of wanting to embrace these cool, exciting changes) or carve your own canon which leads to a massive headache and inherently to OOC conflict.

 

Alas, I'm mostly just reiterating Skotnica here, but I think it's a worthwhile point. There's really no other MMO where the universe you roleplay in is so wildly disparate based upon player choices. This was not the case in Galaxies; it is not the case in FFXIV; it is not the case in WoW; it is not the case in LOTRO; it is not the case in GW2; it is not the case in ESO.

 

I don't know any other major MMOs with RP communities, so you'll have to forgive me if I missed an example, but maybe those games not having large communities might be connected.

 

And I usually get a typical response, so let me emphasize something:

 

The narrative can provide for interesting choice without "interesting choice" being "Do you save the empress or kill her?" Narratives are, in my opinion, much more interesting and engaging when we're on the "ground level," playing around with moral and ethical questions that don't boil down to "Did you choose red team or blue team?"

 

I don't think the narrative direction of SWTOR has done anything to create compelling ethical or moral choices (like Disco Elysium, Tyranny, Witcher 3, or Divinity) and the current direction hurts RPers, so it's a lose-lose for me.

 

If the only interesting writing you can do is, "Do you give up your ultra-powerful space empire that you inherited because the god-emperor is personally in love with you?" and "Do you kill X or kill Y?" I think you should probably look for other career paths.

 

It's not as if these different paths are the result of real consequence, anyway. The Republic doesn't win the battle for Corellia because of choices I made two or three expansions ago -- the Republic wins because I made a Republic character. So we have a story which gets progressively more convoluted and complicated, with all these branches that can never lead to any real resolution, while making roleplay more difficult, while also doing nothing to shake the notion of a galaxy that doesn't really change.

 

On the scale of railroad to sandbox DMs, SWTOR is about as railroad as you can get, except the DM insists on adding a bunch of illusory options that they never intend to pay off and that they're just going to forget once your party shows up for their next session.

Edited by jedimasterjac
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Yeah, but it's a lot harder to get everyone to agree on, say, who the current emperor is, who won the battle of Corellia, or who is still alive, than it is to get everyone to agree "My character is not the player character in the game's narrative." Those aren't really comparable conflicts or concessions.

 

Let's say I'm doing some cantina RP. My character is an engineer, who grew up on Corellia and working in the Corellian shipyards. My character mentions that they're so grateful the Republic protected the shipyards because, hard as life was, they have so many loved ones who lived and died there, and they'd rather not see the Empire take over.

 

Person B in the cantina then responds, "What are you talking about? I played Onslaught, and when I did the Republic failed."

 

 

It makes simple walk-up or pick-up RP especially hard in particular, but even in guild/community settings can lead to significant disconnect, especially for players who misunderstand, have not yet gotten up to speed on the content, or who don't want to navigate seven different guilds each with their own states of the Galaxy that can vary as much as who is in charge of the two major governments in the galaxy.

 

 

 

You're still RPing in the world and universe laid out by the narrative of SWTOR; you can't do that and have a narrative with multiple, conflicting realities.

 

 

 

Things can change. The issue is that these changes have multiple, inherently-contradictory possibilities, not that they are changes.

 

It doesn't hurt RPers to have Empress Acina die. Most welcome those sorts of changes because it leads to very interesting narrative environments to play around with. How would an alien Imperial handle the death of the most pro-alien Emperor to rule? How would your average soldier, or citizen, react? What does a power-hungry Sith think, or a reformist Sith? Does it inspire hope or fear in the Republic? Does a Jedi care?

 

Those are all really, really interesting questions. And they're really fun to write around.

 

What's not fun is that any given person you're writing with may be playing their character in a completely different universe. What happens when things my character has done -- and does -- for more than a year now are a direct result of the Empire losing the battle of Corellia, but then I'm RPing with a person, or a group, whose character development is contingent on the empire winning?

 

It really hurts continuity, and it makes RP a lot harder than it needs to be. You're basically forced to never touch what's happening in the game (which is the opposite of wanting to embrace these cool, exciting changes) or carve your own canon which leads to a massive headache and inherently to OOC conflict.

 

Alas, I'm mostly just reiterating Skotnica here, but I think it's a worthwhile point. There's really no other MMO where the universe you roleplay in is so wildly disparate based upon player choices. This was not the case in Galaxies; it is not the case in FFXIV; it is not the case in WoW; it is not the case in LOTRO; it is not the case in GW2; it is not the case in ESO.

 

I don't know any other major MMOs with RP communities, so you'll have to forgive me if I missed an example, but maybe those games not having large communities might be connected.

 

And I usually get a typical response, so let me emphasize something:

 

The narrative can provide for interesting choice without "interesting choice" being "Do you save the empress or kill her?" Narratives are, in my opinion, much more interesting and engaging when we're on the "ground level," playing around with moral and ethical questions that don't boil down to "Did you choose red team or blue team?"

 

I don't think the narrative direction of SWTOR has done anything to create compelling ethical or moral choices (like Disco Elysium, Tyranny, Witcher 3, or Divinity) and the current direction hurts RPers, so it's a lose-lose for me.

 

If the only interesting writing you can do is, "Do you give up your ultra-powerful space empire that you inherited because the god-emperor is personally in love with you?" and "Do you kill X or kill Y?" I think you should probably look for other career paths.

 

It's not as if these different paths are the result of real consequence, anyway. The Republic doesn't win the battle for Corellia because of choices I made two or three expansions ago -- the Republic wins because I made a Republic character. So we have a story which gets progressively more convoluted and complicated, with all these branches that can never lead to any real resolution, while making roleplay more difficult, while also doing nothing to shake the notion of a galaxy that doesn't really change.

 

On the scale of railroad to sandbox DMs, SWTOR is about as railroad as you can get, except the DM insists on adding a bunch of illusory options that they never intend to pay off and that they're just going to forget once your party shows up for their next session.

 

//Edited bc I misunderstood your point about "ground level" choices at the beginning.

 

There's no point in comparing SWTOR's story to other MMOs', especially, when most of the others barely give you a choice at all and that's SWTOR's whole chabang. Look at WOW for example, what choice can you make there? To accept or not a quest? To follow a written narrative or not?

 

In the end, there are 2 solutions for this problem, you either decide a predetermined setting for the RP session, which is always done in some way or another. Or you take away real choice from the player's hands in the game's narrative, taking away the player's involvement in the higher echelons of the story. I think the former is much easier to achieve than to hinder the game's story, to make it easier for RPing.

 

Now, I understand what you're saying when you say that real choices don't have to be big choices and I do agree that ground level choices are very interesting to explore but at this point, it would be more a matter of preference, of which type of story each person likes so not much of a point in going there. Every game that offers choice only offers an illusion of choice, so there's not much of a point in going there either.

 

Also, imagine if they decided to take away from the player involvement in big decisions like who rules the galaxy and if the Alliance is disbanded or not, after already giving so many of them before, do you think most players would be happy about it? It's also not like moral and ethical decisions don't have lasting consequences on big decisions as well.

 

I do understand the struggle of RPing in this game, I just think there's not much they can do to fix this problem without harming the story they've already built, and since there is a solution for the problem, complicated or not, by deciding together a predetermined setting for the RP session, there's not much of a point in discussing this.

Edited by JJKerryee
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What I'm trying to say is I would prefered if they kept the whole game as a balance as before KOTFE all the stories molded into one story, like example when play Empire story on Balmorra, you help darth lachris take over balmorra, then when play on a consular and see darth lachris in the consular story, it shows the example of story molding knowing that all the classes and all the stories are connected and have created one giant story knowing every event in a 'canonised' order.

 

But with that now all gone, mostly now the ones controlling everything this third faction the Alliance. It just derails the Entire game, for it dosen;t feel like I'm playing SWTOR anymore but more Star wars: The alliance. As that story mold is now gone, it's like say when I played Jedi under seige on my rep toon, I say "Ooo, wonder what style empire has". But only to see it's not that unique or different, which got me dissapointed that the game is now focused on favouratism, and is slowly becoming like KOTOR, again I love KOTOR, as it was back int he time a single player RPG where it didn;t really had a canon at the time, ((by canon i dont mean canon/legends but as in story canon)) but to apply that element on a multiplayer RPG ain't a good idea. as they now threw away the mold of mixing both faction stories and just focus now on paths, it has no story canon anymore, and before say well republic and jedi knight are the canon, then this proves my point they have derailed and ruined the game, as it's not about the jedi knight or the republic, but all the eight classes and both republic and empire, if they disbanded the alliance, and kept the mold like they done for Makeb as example then it may go better.

 

For say they did like this, as story order first goes Empire side, invade ossus the sabotauge the Jedi and eradicate them, but when fight gnost duraal there is no option of kill/capture, but you believed to have killed him.

 

Then it goes repside order when same events but when reached to temple you learn gnost dural is barely alive. So it dosen;t divide the story and keeps to a canon. and player community wont argue of whose dead/alive, and which is right and which is wrong, as this game is more to mold all stories into one, not throw out some of that mold to focus upon class/faction favouratism

Edited by Rhys_lightning
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I was disappointed the Alliance story was one story and not individual class stories. It ruined the idea that all my characters share the same universe. However, the overall story is for me alone for my characters. The only thing I care about what others do is that anyone who lets Theron Shan die or banish him plays the game wrong. Seriously, I play the game for my personal story. I like the story of the Alliance for its own sake, so I have 8 different versions of it. The only opinion that matters for my own game is mine. It's my own personal Star Wars.
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If it was a single player RPG then yeah the alliance story would be fine. If a MMO but has only the alliance faction and not the republic or empire faction then fine, but this MMO is about the republic and the Empire, and bioware are ignoring those two factions and just focusing on this pointless third faction that should be disbanded by now. As said the story is lacking balance, there is nothing unique for both sides, it's all the same except you deciding who wins/loses, not bioware splitting wins/loses in balance and molding story to make both factions worth playing and to keep to a close canon, and not label the game on the Jedi knight and republic, for we got the other 7 classes too. For Bioware may aswell rename the game to Knights of the old republic 3 or Star wars the alliance, as it does not feel like SWTOR anymore.
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If it was a single player RPG then yeah the alliance story would be fine. If a MMO but has only the alliance faction and not the republic or empire faction then fine, but this MMO is about the republic and the Empire,

This MMO is about the Old Republic era that's it. The fact that you want them to focus on both of those factions alone is something different.

 

and bioware are ignoring those two factions and just focusing on this pointless third faction that should be disbanded by now.

What? After KOTET the game went back to being absolutely about both factions. BioWare has literally given the player the option to disband the Alliance and all the new story has been focusing on Republic and Empire.

 

As said the story is lacking balance, there is nothing unique for both sides, it's all the same except you deciding who wins/loses,

You literally have different stories on each side with base common elements. It's still worthwhile to play both sides.

 

not bioware splitting wins/loses in balance and molding story to make both factions worth playing and to keep to a close canon, and not label the game on the Jedi knight and republic, for we got the other 7 classes too. For Bioware may aswell rename the game to Knights of the old republic 3 or Star wars the alliance, as it does not feel like SWTOR anymore.

I mean if you want the same boring and stale war constantly happening, without anything ever changing be my guest. But don't make us other players have to suffer that. Plus, you're uniting 2 completely different things, one thing is wanting them to go back to 8 coexisting storylines, which I agree with (but admittedly will never happen), another completely different thing is wanting them to go back to the boring war we had at the beginning. I'd rather have a story where what we do actually has some impact on the story.

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Going back to a stalemate is the last thing I'd want.

 

But then again, stalemate is the game, the war between these 2 groups will never end until the game does.

 

At this point it's less like a conflict between 2 major powers and more like a slap fight between 2 tired and exhausted old people.

 

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the game ends not with a faction defeating the other, but with them joining as one, especially considering all the reforms the empire has been going through since the cold war.

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