Not enough people here played Knights of the Old Republic

[MagicmanNC]

....and as a result, a lot of people didn't really know what they were getting into with this game.

 

Most of the complaints/demands being posted in here are "things WoW has" which, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), aren't in SWTOR (yet). I guess it was to be expected, since this is the "next big MMO" and a lot of players from WoW are trying it.

 

However, some of the complaints are simply coming from ignorance of the KotOR/SWTOR universe. I have a hard time believing that a KotOR veteran who enjoyed those games would make complaints about these things:

1) Excessive cutscenes/dialogue: this was kind of the backbone of KotOR

2) Companions: KotOR used a party system; you always had 1 or 2 with you almost all of the time, and like SWTOR they were crucial to the story

3) Lack of an "open world": Did people really think they were going to be able to fly around an entire planet 17 different times?

4) Light/Dark side choices: this was central to KotOR, as it affected your appearance, who among your party stayed with you (or survived) until the end, as well as the actual ending of the game

 

If you didn't like KotOR, you probably wasted your money on this game if you even bought it in the first place. If you didn't play it at all, I'm not sure you really knew what to expect.

 

I can remember a developer quote (don't remember the source) that SWTOR is like "KotOR 3 through 8 released all at once". While some gameplay changes have been made to allow for the change from single-player RPG to MMORPG, SWTOR is still pretty much a sequel to the original KotOR (not the second one I don't reckon, as I've seen no references to the Exile or Darth Treya anywhere yet; it wasn't developed by Bioware anyways).

 

That being said, I have thoroughly enjoyed the MMO additions to the KotOR franchise. Seeing people out in the world, grouping for quests/flashpoints, PvP warzones, groups of Imperials showing up in Republic questing areas to get it on......it's been fantastic.

 

Understanding that this game is (in many ways) a sequel to the original KotOR and not just "WoW with lightsabers" is key to one's expectations of SWTOR, and unfulfilled expectations lead to lots of complaint threads . I (and many others) could have told you 3 years ago if you wanted "WoW with lightsabers" you were probably looking at the wrong game.

 

I will admit, I am interested in seeing how Bioware handles "endgame content" in the future. While I like most of what makes this game "not WoW", using a WoW-type model for expansions in terms of new planets, new warzones/flashpoints/operations, a new "Darth So-and-So" to beat down, new space battles, new companions, new races/classes (maybe a Grey Jedi class treated like WoW plans to do the Pandaren) wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Edited December 30, 2011 by MagicmanNC

[NoiseTankXIII]

Be thankful they didn't.

 

I could only imagine the furor that would happen when they realized what BioWare did to the stories of those two games and the characters that were in them.

[Sottaly]

I have to agree. I love the fact that the game ties in with the original KOTORs so well. I finally got to see what happened to the people of Taris trying to find the land of paradise or how my actions with the rakghoul serum actually had an effect three hundred years later

[MagicmanNC]

Be thankful they didn't.

 

I could only imagine the furor that would happen when they realized what BioWare did to the stories of those two games and the characters that were in them.

I think I read somewhere (again, no source) that Bioware used the Light-side ending of KotOR as the "canon" for SWTOR.

[Sottaly]

I think I read somewhere (again, no source) that Bioware used the Light-side ending of KotOR as the "canon" for SWTOR.

 

They did. It was mentioned in one of the quests about how Bastila turned Revan from dark to light.

[Durzaka]

I think I read somewhere (again, no source) that Bioware used the Light-side ending of KotOR as the "canon" for SWTOR.

 

That is because the light side ending IS canon for the star wars universe.

[Shillen]

OP, you're 100% right. If you play this game as though it's a single player game then it's absolutely amazing. If you play it because it's an MMO then you are let down because it doesn't have any of the quality of life features an MMO is supposed to have.

 

They basically created an incredibly amazing single player game, added a ton of time sinks and then slapped on the most basic MMO functionality they could to qualify it as an MMO.

 

Personally, I'm just playing it like it's a single-player game and I'm really enjoying it. I will not be playing it months down the road though unless they make some dramatic improvements to the MMO aspect of the game.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Shillen

[Armythug]

Good post OP. Thanks for the explanation. But in my opinion, no one wants to listen to anyone any more. So hard to please everyone. Why bother?

[Darkhosis]

I agree completely. SWTOR is exactly what I expected and wanted. A never ending KOTOR experience.

 

It was always very sad when I finally had milked KOTOR 1 & 2 for all their worth. Played through both games so many times choosing every option just to see the outcomes. So many memorable moments from those games I'll always cherish.

 

Really sucks so many people don't understand or even get what's happening. That this game isn't like WOW. It's KOTOR in MMO form. It isn't a PVP or raid(end game) oriented game. What KOTOR has always been about is the story and the game is meant to be played through many times.

 

Anyone who hasn't played KOTOR 1& 2 should really go back and play them through. What's funny is I didn't like KOTOR when I first picked it up long ago. Then I tried it again and it was like some epiphany and fell in love with it.

[Crash-X]

OP, you're 100% right. If you play this game as though it's a single player game then it's absolutely amazing. If you play it because it's an MMO then you are let down because it doesn't have any of the quality of life features an MMO is supposed to have.

 

They basically created an incredibly amazing single player game, added a ton of time sinks and then slapped on the most basic MMO functionality they could to qualify it as an MMO.

 

Personally, I'm just playing it like it's a single-player game and I'm really enjoying it. I will not be playing it months down the road though unless they make some dramatic improvements to the MMO aspect of the game.

 

Don't understand this complaint.

 

It's a single player game because you are playing it like one. If you want to group up you are rewarded for it. There is not much if anything that discourages grouping in this game and there is plenty of group content to be had here.

[NoiseTankXIII]

I think I read somewhere (again, no source) that Bioware used the Light-side ending of KotOR as the "canon" for SWTOR.

 

I'm actually fine with their decision on KotoR1's ending.

 

But I really hated how they handled KotoR2.

[dozerking]

OP, you're 100% right. If you play this game as though it's a single player game then it's absolutely amazing. If you play it because it's an MMO then you are let down because it doesn't have any of the quality of life features an MMO is supposed to have.

 

They basically created an incredibly amazing single player game, added a ton of time sinks and then slapped on the most basic MMO functionality they could to qualify it as an MMO.

 

Personally, I'm just playing it like it's a single-player game and I'm really enjoying it. I will not be playing it months down the road though unless they make some dramatic improvements to the MMO aspect of the game.

 

Right on, couldn't agree more.

[flofan]

I have successfully found a meaningful, intelligent, logical, and useful post among the complaining. My faith in humanity has been restored.

 

I agree 100% with you, OP. I love the cut scenes, I love the LS and DS points, and I really love the companions. It does feel like KotOR 3-8 all wrapped up into one (I remember the Devs saying this, because I jumped with joy).

 

I think that people need to educate themselves on KotOR 1 lore. They should also learn about the sequel, but it's not nearly as important as the original.

 

Once again, thank you, OP, for making a meaningful post among the crap.

[Shillen]

Don't understand this complaint.

 

It's a single player game because you are playing it like one. If you want to group up you are rewarded for it. There is not much if anything that discourages grouping in this game and there is plenty of group content to be had here.

 

Instanced areas, instanced cities, phased questing, limited ability to find groups, limited guild functionality, inflexible and inefficient interface, and on and on.

 

You hardly see anyone when you're playing. Things that you can put up with in a single player game that you only play for a month are things you can't put up with if you're playing long-term such as the interface.

 

I have a guild, I group up and quest with them. But if you're looking for an MMO to play in the long term this is not it. The story will get old and that's all there really is to this game.

[Oappo]

I'm actually fine with their decision on KotoR1's ending.

 

But I really hated how they handled KotoR2.

 

Except they didn't.

 

Obsidian did.

[MagicmanNC]

I'm actually fine with their decision on KotoR1's ending.

 

But I really hated how they handled KotoR2.

I believe that KotOR 2 is being ignored for the sake of lore in SWTOR. Bioware didn't do it (Obsidian developed it), and it was a rush job. I did play through a restored-content mod that added in a bunch of stuff that got cut out, and while it made the play-through much smoother story-wise, it didn't really affect the ending from what I remember.

 

KotOR 1 was what I played through multiple times anyways

[Banetek]

Don't you think you're being an elitest with your talk of having played kotor.. ?

 

 

WoW players, kotor players are one in the same in that they are in this game. if bioware wishes to keep their player base they will consider everything that EVERY ONE is requesting and how to take the best ideas and make them happen.

 

 

THAT is what really only counts. Also lets not forget all those wow players that played warhammer online back when warhammer had tons of subs... Look where its at now.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Banetek

[MagicmanNC]

I have successfully found a meaningful, intelligent, logical, and useful post among the complaining. My faith in humanity has been restored.

 

I agree 100% with you, OP. I love the cut scenes, I love the LS and DS points, and I really love the companions. It does feel like KotOR 3-8 all wrapped up into one (I remember the Devs saying this, because I jumped with joy).

 

I think that people need to educate themselves on KotOR 1 lore. They should also learn about the sequel, but it's not nearly as important as the original.

 

Once again, thank you, OP, for making a meaningful post among the crap.

That's what General Discussion is for, right?

 

[Aroseby]

I have successfully found a meaningful, intelligent, logical, and useful post among the complaining. My faith in humanity has been restored.

 

I agree 100% with you, OP. I love the cut scenes, I love the LS and DS points, and I really love the companions. It does feel like KotOR 3-8 all wrapped up into one (I remember the Devs saying this, because I jumped with joy).

 

I think that people need to educate themselves on KotOR 1 lore. They should also learn about the sequel, but it's not nearly as important as the original.

 

Once again, thank you, OP, for making a meaningful post among the crap.

 

I played in the last 2 beta tests of SWTOR I actually went and bought a copy of KOTOR 1 (in between beta test end and game start) to brush up, so to speak on SWTOR, learnt many, many things but most importantly , and this is ironic, (I think??) I thort what a fail game KOTOR is compared to this!!! I actually am enjoying KOTOR but admittedly havent played much of it since SWTOR came out. Thank you Bioware "I see what you have done there"

 

Oh BTW a most excellent post OP keep up the good work

[sleepthief]

....and as a result, a lot of people didn't really know what they were getting into with this game.

 

Most of the complaints/demands being posted in here are "things WoW has" which, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), aren't in SWTOR (yet). I guess it was to be expected, since this is the "next big MMO" and a lot of players from WoW are trying it.

 

However, some of the complaints are simply coming from ignorance of the KotOR/SWTOR universe. I have a hard time believing that a KotOR veteran who enjoyed those games would make complaints about these things:

1) Excessive cutscenes/dialogue: this was kind of the backbone of KotOR

2) Companions: KotOR used a party system; you always had 1 or 2 with you almost all of the time, and like SWTOR they were crucial to the story

3) Lack of an "open world": Did people really think they were going to be able to fly around an entire planet 17 different times?

4) Light/Dark side choices: this was central to KotOR, as it affected your appearance, who among your party stayed with you (or survived) until the end, as well as the actual ending of the game

 

If you didn't like KotOR, you probably wasted your money on this game if you even bought it in the first place. If you didn't, I'm not sure you really knew what to expect.

 

I can remember a developer quote (don't remember the source) that SWTOR is like "KotOR 3 through 8 released all at once". While some gameplay changes have been made to allow for the change from single-player RPG to MMORPG, SWTOR is still pretty much a sequel to the original KotOR (not the second one I don't reckon, as I've seen no references to the Exile or Darth Treya anywhere yet; it wasn't developed by Bioware anyways).

 

That being said, I have thoroughly enjoyed the MMO additions to the KotOR franchise. Seeing people out in the world, grouping for quests/flashpoints, PvP warzones, groups of Imperials showing up in Republic questing areas to get it on......it's been fantastic.

 

Understanding that this game is (in many ways) a sequel to the original KotOR and not just "WoW with lightsabers" is key to one's expectations of SWTOR, and unfulfilled expectations lead to lots of complaint threads . I (and many others) could have told you 3 years ago if you wanted "WoW with lightsabers" you were probably looking at the wrong game.

 

I will admit, I am interested in seeing how Bioware handles "endgame content" in the future. While I like most of what makes this game "not WoW", using a WoW-type model for expansions in terms of new planets, new warzones/flashpoints/operations, a new "Darth So-and-So" to beat down, new space battles, new companions, new races/classes (maybe a Grey Jedi class treated like WoW plans to do the Pandaren) wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

I played all the KOTOR games and I'm disappointed. Do I get a cookie? Being an MMO I didn't expect the super linear hand holding that KOTOR had, cause you know, it's supposed to be a real living breathing world and real leaving breathing worlds aren't fenced in and heavily instanced.

 

Oh, and this is definitely WoW with lightsabers, just a very poor copy (and I haven't played WoW for a good 4 years or so) where every class has pets and their own instanced house complete with on-rails shooter... I'm a PvPer though and I knew it would be bad going in there's just nothing else going on. I've played pretty much everything on the market to death.. can't wait for GW2, I was hoping that Ilum would be my short term savior.

 

So far, on my server, Jung Ma, it's a ghost town where it appears as though trading objectives is the goal (and no, I didn't pre-order, and I'm not at level cap, I went out early because that's the main reason I got the game for open world objective based PvP .. maybe something along the lines of DAOC or the Entmoors from LOTRO which is along those lines).

 

I'm here because of yet another show-stopping bug .. magical disappearing class quests .. so I can't progress any further until some hapless CS person does their job.. and I'm not holding my breath or waiting around in game for that to happen either... 'night.

[Crash-X]

Instanced areas, instanced cities, phased questing, limited ability to find groups, limited guild functionality, inflexible and inefficient interface, and on and on.

 

You hardly see anyone when you're playing. Things that you can put up with in a single player game that you only play for a month are things you can't put up with if you're playing long-term such as the interface.

 

I have a guild, I group up and quest with them. But if you're looking for an MMO to play in the long term this is not it. The story will get old and that's all there really is to this game.

 

Sorry but none of what you said makes this a single-player game. Fact is you play with other people and are encouraged to do so. Just because the multiplayer aspect of the game isn't exactly how you want it to be doesn't make it a single player game.

 

Also speak for yourself when you say "But if you're looking for an MMO to play in the long term this is not it. The story will get old and that's all there really is to this game."

I think the game is much more than just a good story. I've not done a class quest on my main in 2 days now.

[Fende]

I believe that KotOR 2 is being ignored for the sake of lore in SWTOR. Bioware didn't do it (Obsidian developed it), and it was a rush job. I did play through a restored-content mod that added in a bunch of stuff that got cut out, and while it made the play-through much smoother story-wise, it didn't really affect the ending from what I remember.

 

KotOR 1 was what I played through multiple times anyways

 

If you read the book titled "Revan" it ties in kotor 1+2 with Swtor. They're not ignoring it, it's just all of that games story arcs have been resolved.

[MagicmanNC]

Don't you think you're being an elitest with your talk of having played kotor.. ?

 

 

WoW players, kotor players are one in the same in that they are in this game. if bioware wishes to keep their player base they will consider everything that EVERY ONE is requesting and how to take the best ideas and make them happen.

 

 

THAT is what really only counts. Also lets not forget all those wow players that played warhammer online back when warhammer had tons of subs... Look where its at now.

I'm not sure that having played KotOR makes anyone an elitist.

 

However, I'm pretty sure that KotOR vets aren't saying things like "Why can't I have a flying mount?" or "Why are there so many cutscenes?" or "Nice job Bioware, you made all classes pet classes!"

[jestertron]

sooooooo.... I mean i don't think you have to play KOTOR 1 or 2 to understand anything in this game. It;s simple: the game takes place 2000+ years before Episode 1 and it's made by bioware with similarities to other mmo formulas. that's it.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Very nice, OP. I completely agree with you.

 

This game has a distinct KotOR feel to it. The only thing that would make it feel more like a pure RPG would be to get rid of the random spawns, add more cutscenes, and add more named NPC's.

 

I'm here for KotOR 3! The MMO part is just bonus.