Return Veteran's Edge stacks to NIM Raids

[AwesomeTacoCat]

This is 100% my biggest problem with the raiding community. Furthermore, if you actually want to play the bosses' mechanics as they were intended, a lot of these "1337" players and groups start wiping because they have no idea how to play without cheesing or abusing FotM setups.

 

My issue with them removing stacks is not that they did it, it's how and when. The game has never been in a more disgusting state of imbalance, with PTs and Lightning Sorcs worlds above most of their melee and ranged competition respectively even post-nerf, and Sorc healers similarly lagging. Balance the game first, preferably fix several bosses so that they can no longer be cheesed, then make NiM harder again.

 

Some premade guild's timerun video with no stacks with a group that's trained together for years which can beat the content by running 2+ PTs and 2 Assassin tanks and avoiding every mechanic possible with stealth, shroud, rebounder, or just plain DPS is meaningless, and doesn't show that the content is well-scaled at all. The issue is that random NiM raiding is largely dead now - this isn't some fatalistic prediction, but the reality of what I've seen on my server since the patch hit - and it's not because they made the content harder per se, which most of the people I know would welcome after the faceroll raids with stacks, but that they made it unnecessarily hard for the current balance situation in the game.

 

All of this doesn't even begin to touch on the sheer level of DTPS coming in, which is (adjusted for changes in max HP) significantly higher than when these ops were brand new, combined with the unfortunate state of the Sorc healer, only compounded by the fact that the class was actually well-balanced on the PTS until they decided to leave its only useable tactical out of the release version. Most wipes I've seen since the patch hit are simply DTPS>HTPS, and I can't even blame the healers when they're really good players and the major fault lies with the devs.

 

Nerfing PT/Sorc DDs and Merc healers isn't the answer either, because then certain fights (like Nahut in the case of PTs) will become nigh impossible. Everything needs to be buffed and rebalanced to that level if the stacks are to stay gone, preferably soon before a significant portion of the raiding community jumps ship.

 

Well said.

[chipequssmlgpro]

If everything you've said, about how very good your healers are, how good you know all the strats and mechanics, if atleast half of it were true, we wouldn't be even having this discussion.

[Aulus_Claudius]

there is no point in bringing a Sage/Sorc over the other two healers since they are so much more ahead.

This is the attitude I can't stand from a certain subset of the raiding community. "The content is fine, git gud, and btw there's no point in bringing [currently disfavored class/spec] along. Change with the times and only play the FotM meta classes." (Note, the rest builds on this topic but isn't all directed at you personally.)

 

If it's not playable for every setup, even if the skill requirement is significantly higher for some, the content is inherently poorly tuned and/or the game is very poorly balanced. It used to work that way, at least before Nahut NiM: groups grab world firsts by abusing metas, but the content was always doable with every class/spec. Now it looks like they're going the other way with old content, too. You can currently get away with one Sorc healer if the second is really good and can carry AoE healing, at least on the bosses I've played since the change dropped. DTPS as a percentage of HP is way higher than when the content was brand new, and the Sorc isn't healing significantly more than back then, especially in AoE. The sets and tacticals are a joke and need rebalancing. And don't even get me started on PT DDs compared to anything else.

 

What I will never do is start to discriminate against players based on the class/spec they play. If they fit the role I need and know the content, it's wrong to deny them based on that. If it's possible to clear the content with the setup we get, we'll find a way, but that doesn't excuse the state of the game right now. I'm not asking for stacks back, but 6.2 either has to be a massive balance patch for their entire class roster or they're going to keep hemorrhaging players.

 

I'm glad that some of the discords you play on seem to be more active - I'm also fortunate enough to have a circle that still builds raid groups that can actually clear content on evenings when enough people are there - but the server as a whole and our global LFG channel have gone from a ton of NiM to basically none. The pool has shrunk by 75% or more, and true random NiM raiding is dead and now only takes place within certain select communities.

 

It's just a very sad situation to see, and no amount of posturing from a few entitled groups on the forum willfully misinterpreting a love for NiM pugging and the reasonably-sized community that's built up around it since 4.0 - and is now rapidly dying - as an inability to clear the stackless content personally will change what's happening to the community because of this ill-timed change. And rather than addressing the problem it seems they would rather insult people personally or tell them to "gid gud and play [meta class/setup]" than actually contribute to the discussion.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius

[FerkWork]

Mathematically, a duo of Sorc healers are more than capable to pump out raw HPS needed to clear a fight if you want to insist on that comp but at NiM level you should always play for the benefit of the team not yourself. There will always be a class that is better and they’ve already said they are looking into essentially buffing Sorc healer down the road. As for meta classes, well some classes are better at some fights vs others and the way fights work it goes to there advantage. I will let you in on a stated fact that NiM isn’t suppose to be balanced around being fair to all specs and some classes will do better and have an advantage. It’s incredible easy to level, gear up classes for alts in this game and alt effectively in this game so having any class and all classes for anyone wanting to raid NiM is pretty easy. Edited February 18, 2020 by FerkWork

[Aulus_Claudius]

Mathematically, a duo of Sorc healers are more than capable to pump out raw HPS needed to clear a fight if you want to insist on that comp but at NiM level you should always play for the benefit of the team not yourself. There will always be a class that is better and they’ve already said they are looking into essentially buffing Sorc healer down the road. As for meta classes, well some classes are better at some fights vs others and the way fights work it goes to there advantage. I will let you in on a stated fact that NiM isn’t suppose to be balanced around being fair to all specs and some classes will do better and have an advantage. It’s incredible easy to level, gear up classes for alts in this game and alt effectively in this game so having any class and all classes for anyone wanting to raid NiM is pretty easy.

I never said every fight is balanced to be fair to every spec. Certain ones have significant challenges to overcome, and that's part of the fun of raiding anti-meta setups. If you think I was saying anything else, you should re-read. The problem is when the game is severely unbalanced on top of that. Currently, not only is PT the meta DD for nearly every encounter so because of its utility, but also because of the insane damage output coming from its broken tactical and set bonus, leaving everything else in the dust. Some others are optimal when self-cleanse is required, but that's it and it's always a noticeable DPS loss.

 

At the very least they need to get all classes to within the target range on the single-target dummy based on melee/range and dot/burst +/- 5% each that they claimed after the last major round of balancing in 5.x. If they can do that, I have no problem with stacks going away. They just made changes in the wrong order, leaving the raiding community reeling in the meantime.

 

Not only is it not nearly as easy to gear a ton of classes as you claim unless you're insanely rich or buy credits (in which case it is really fast, granted), it's completely beside the point. You're more than welcome to keep playing meta setups and changing with the wind, but I'll stick to playing with good players who actually stick with their main class through good and bad times. While I'll never quit over balance concerns and will continue to largely ignore current balance in my choice of class and raiding companions - that's the whole fun of it, and is a test of skill unlike just playing meta all the time - if the community dies out because of the current state of things, which it's very quickly doing, I just can't see continuing to enjoy the game for much longer. NiM pugs (actually random people, not just a select group over some Discord) were most of the fun I had in SWTOR, and they're all but dead right now.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius

[FerkWork]

I never said every fight is balanced to be fair to every spec. Certain ones have significant challenges to overcome, and that's part of the fun of raiding anti-meta setups. If you think I was saying anything else, you should re-read. The problem is when the game is severely unbalanced on top of that. Currently, not only is PT the meta DD for nearly every encounter so because of its utility, but also because of the insane damage output coming from its broken tactical and set bonus, leaving everything else in the dust. Some others are optimal when self-cleanse is required, but that's it and it's always a noticeable DPS loss.

 

At the very least they need to get all classes to within the target range on the single-target dummy based on melee/range and dot/burst +/- 5% each that they claimed after the last major round of balancing in 5.x. If they can do that, I have no problem with stacks going away. They just made changes in the wrong order, leaving the raiding community reeling in the meantime.

 

Not only is it not nearly as easy to gear a ton of classes as you claim unless you're insanely rich or buy credits (in which case it is really fast, granted), it's completely beside the point. You're more than welcome to keep playing meta setups and changing with the wind, but I'll stick to playing with good players who actually stick with their main class through good and bad times. While I'll never quit over balance concerns and will continue to largely ignore current balance in my choice of class and raiding companions - that's the whole fun of it, and is a test of skill unlike just playing meta all the time - if the community dies out because of the current state of things, which it's very quickly doing, I just can't see continuing to enjoy the game for much longer. NiM pugs (actually random people, not just a select group over some Discord) were most of the fun I had in SWTOR, and they're all but dead right now.

 

Tbf most of the dps classes are balanced. Granted Bolster is doing some weird things with Force/Tech damage making those classes shine more in downscale content something that should be fixed in 70 content. I don’t think anyone disputes that Pyro could use some more nerfs but the Devs have been giving classes more options to increase their burst or sustained. That said dps is pretty balanced compared to previous expacs. As for Meta classes, you are more than welcome to continue to play the classes you like to play as the Ops are still more than clearable as them, my point being sometimes certain comps are just stronger and nothing wrong with playing that comp to maximize chances of clearing, granted when it’s on farm no one really cares as long as the person knows how to play the class. As for hearing this game pretty much just hands you tech frags for set bonus and mods to easily make a set. I have 5 characters geared despite only casually playing fps for a few hours at beginning of expac and raid logging for helping manage a team that is working on Gods right now. This is the easiest it’s ever been gearwise, and nothing compared other MMO’s gearing system like WoW in terms of ease. All and all all classes are more than capable of clearing and to be honest it’s the hardest difficulty it’s not meant to just be pugged with little coordination. That’s what Groupfinder is for.

[Rion_Starkiller]

That kind of just proves the point that NiM had gotten too easy. NiM is not for most of the community, it is supposed to be challenging and something you work for.

 

If tacticals and set bonuses make NiM easy, then you should be fine still clearing all the raids, as most of the set bonuses have not been changed or nerfed at all since 6.0

 

Not disagreeing that it was easy-ish, only that now it is considerably more difficult. When 6.0 first dropped it took a few weeks to gear up, so the content was moderately difficult at first. Only as players got min/maxed, full set bonus, teacticals, etc did it get easy.

 

Essentially, this ninja change discourages new NiM raiders and casual NiM raiders. There's a huge gap between HM and NiM, so to tell these players to "go back to HM" isn't a realistic option (they've been there, done that). In my opinion, the new raids (Dxun, Gods) should be the very difficult ones, while the older ones should be fairly easy.

 

I'm not asking for VE stacks to be returned -- only that they go ahead and release gold augments and amps on enhancements.... per the rumor mill.

 

The PTS was not closed, NiM raids with 0 veteran's edge stacks were on the Open PTS at the same time as the Alderaan stronghold. Everyone could have copied a character over and tested it themselves. This idea of a Failure or FC conspiracy to remove stacks is ridiculous. The developers without anyone asking them to, removed veterans edge stacks and asked personally one or two teams to test the raids on the OPEN PTS. Everyone agreed raids were too easy but no one campaigned for 0 stacks like some casuals are complaining about.

 

I had no idea VE was removed from nim raids on the PTS. I thought the PTS was solely an Alderaan dollhouse.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Rion_Starkiller

[theJudeAbides]

There's so much grade-A trolling and BS in this thread, it's hard to know where to begin. But begin I shall.

 

"NIM is meant to be hard, it was so EASY with VE stacks."

 

So, our guild easily clears HM TFB, one-shotting all bosses while casually chatting about whatever. Meanwhile, in NIM, we had been progressing on the Dread Guard for over a month. It took us a while to properly do all the mechanics correctly, but we got there eventually. In every pull, everyone was 100% focused and the only things spoken were call-outs for mechanics and other fight-related things. This content is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than HM, and just because you and your 1337 friends have had it on farm since it came out doesn't mean it isn't hard for the rest of us.

 

"NIM is so easy, casuals could do it."

 

Yeah, OK. Have you seen the casuals in this game? I have. I've seen casuals fail numerous times to the first boss in MM Hammer Station. 99% of the population of this game wouldn't even dare to set foot in a NIM. The people that are even attempting NIM are a select few.

 

"You should be able to solo-heal NIM content!"

 

OK there buddy, you come and do that for us then. Any repair bills will be sent to you, but that shouldn't be a worry because your heals are so great, right?!? What an asinine thing to say.

 

"You should really be only bringing specific classes into this fight."

 

Why? People should be able to play whatever classes they want to play without that guaranteeing failure to progress. If the classes aren't balanced properly, that's not the players problems, that's BWs problem. And if BW fails to do anything about it, the only way to get there attention is to cancel subscriptions and hurt BW the only way they can: withholding their money.

 

 

I've yet to see a single video of any group clearing NIM TFB without VE stacks. If it's so "easy" as you claim, then put up or shut up.

[-Highsteel-]

If everything you've said, about how very good your healers are, how good you know all the strats and mechanics, if atleast half of it were true, we wouldn't be even having this discussion.

 

Pretty much this

[Aulus_Claudius]

dps is pretty balanced compared to previous expacs

We see this point very differently, and I find it hard to believe you're also playing SWTOR 6.x. I don't mean that insultingly, it's just that with the advent of tacticals they've introduced some of the grossest class imbalance I've ever seen in the game, not to mention that "play your way" was just a convenient marketing tool and they don't actually care enough to balance sets and tacticals so that even the major 2 single-target tacticals per spec are competitive. They introduced massive changes and didn't take the time to make sure that single-target DPS was level across all of them.

my point being sometimes certain comps are just stronger and nothing wrong with playing that comp to maximize chances of clearing

Eh, skilled players don't need to rely on meta as a crutch in my view. If we're good enough to clear the content, we'll do so with the mains of each player. And if not, we didn't deserve the kill anyway and need to improve, not just give up and switch classes. FotM setups are for progress races, and there's a reason I never took part in them - the later kills with different, wacky setups are where the fun lies, even if they take more time to pull off. To each their own.

As for hearing this game pretty much just hands you tech frags for set bonus and mods to easily make a set. I have 5 characters geared despite only casually playing fps for a few hours at beginning of expac and raid logging for helping manage a team that is working on Gods right now. This is the easiest it’s ever been gearwise, and nothing compared other MMO’s gearing system like WoW in terms of ease.

This aside adds little to the discussion, but I'll bite. Tech frags are quick, but you forget the million credits per item and the cost of rolling amplifiers and removing mods from non-set gear, not to even mention augments. You're right that it's never been faster to gear up, at least so long as you don't need a Dxun set like the poor PT tank, but it's also never been more expensive. They're making raiding too exclusive in general in terms of only the rich being able to afford it, first making BiS gear cost so much, and then nerfing stacks to force people to have said gear to have a character capable of clearing the content.

 

On the subject of stacks, I see both sides. I agree with you in principle that it's nice to have harder NiM content back, and it's great on raid evenings with a group of people who are coordinated and know the fights inside and out, but it's killing the raiding community having the gap between HM and NiM be so wide and the balancing so poor that the few groups that still run NiMs run with practically the same setup regardless of which op they're doing. It doesn't matter how fun the content is if there's no one left to play it with, and at least the stacks masked the game's balance issues and could have continued to do so until the next balance patch hits.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius

[FerkWork]

There's so much grade-A trolling and BS in this thread, it's hard to know where to begin. But begin I shall.

 

"NIM is meant to be hard, it was so EASY with VE stacks."

 

So, our guild easily clears HM TFB, one-shotting all bosses while casually chatting about whatever. Meanwhile, in NIM, we had been progressing on the Dread Guard for over a month. It took us a while to properly do all the mechanics correctly, but we got there eventually. In every pull, everyone was 100% focused and the only things spoken were call-outs for mechanics and other fight-related things. This content is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than HM, and just because you and your 1337 friends have had it on farm since it came out doesn't mean it isn't hard for the rest of us.

Correct it is not meant to be easy, I think that might speak towards the ease of VM but in any case that’s what it is MM is suppose to be a big jump from Veteran very hard for a select few as it’s the highest difficulty. VE stacks just turned it into being whatever meme around and easy kills with no cordination. It’s not super hard but it’s a bigger challenge now. One should always welcome a challenge.

"NIM is so easy, casuals could do it."

While VE stacks did make it a joke, NiM isn’t intended for casuals or mid tier raiders only the upper 1%. This is well known by dev standards

Yeah, OK. Have you seen the casuals in this game? I have. I've seen casuals fail numerous times to the first boss in MM Hammer Station. 99% of the population of this game wouldn't even dare to set foot in a NIM. The people that are even attempting NIM are a select few.

 

"You should be able to solo-heal NIM content!"

You shouldn’t be able to and the fact people were with Vm stacks shows how undertuned they are

OK there buddy, you come and do that for us then. Any repair bills will be sent to you, but that shouldn't be a worry because your heals are so great, right?!? What an asinine thing to say.

 

"You should really be only bringing specific classes into this fight."

While any class can is more than capable, fights aren’t meant to be designed to be fair they are meant to be punishing. If that means some classes are punished more than others so be it. It was always intended to optimize your comp for highest difficulty. You can clear with any comp but it will be harder. And unlike WoW where I will never get BiS on a single toon you can have it on any and all very quickly making it super easier to gear more so than needed. In any case, it’s intended for players at NiM level to multi class for optimum efficiency.

Why? People should be able to play whatever classes they want to play without that guaranteeing failure to progress. If the classes aren't balanced properly, that's not the players problems, that's BWs problem. And if BW fails to do anything about it, the only way to get there attention is to cancel subscriptions and hurt BW the only way they can: withholding their money.

 

 

I've yet to see a single video of any group clearing NIM TFB without VE stacks. If it's so "easy" as you claim, then put up or shut up.

 

Answers in quotes. People have killed Gods and Brontes without stacks among others and parses for NiM Terror have already without vm stacks.

Edited February 19, 2020 by FerkWork

[Flame_Ya_One]

Do not return stacks to NIM, even more - get rid of VE stacks in HM/VM

 

There's huge gap now between HM and NIM, there's no propper step between two modes.

And yes, NIM was easy. Not so easy for majority with 248 gear, but it became pathetically easy when 258 came.

 

If you check lots of vods and streams of that days you will find out that content was cleared by:

- ppl who don't know their class (even basics, like sin tanks using unprocced volts made me "ahaha" a lot)

- clickers (kinda good skill requirement, in what universe clickers are considered as good players capable of clearing hardest content?)

- Ppl completting timed runs in 25-30 minutes instead of 60

- this can be continued...

 

I have farmed lots of tittles on mara - tho I never played this class before even in HM. But I cleared all old timed runs on it. Maybe I should become a mara guide creator now? :wesmart:

 

All the cryin is only beacuse BW made a nice low kick. So-called NiM-raiders' ego got hurt so much...

Edited February 19, 2020 by Flame_Ya_One
spelling mistake

[Eriamea]

Do not return stacks to NIM, even more - get rid of VE stacks in HM/VM

 

There's huge gap now between HM and NIM, there's no propper step between two modes.

 

Making stacks optional via an activated guild perk could provide that proper step: those that want harder content have it and others can still prog at their pace while having fun. And no, Nim in 5.8 to 6.1 has never been accessible to everyone.

 

As for HM, yes it is super easy now for many people but many others are still struggling (sm ops have been stripped of mechanics and do not prepare at all for HM but it is fun group content accessible to pretty much everyone). People who are already enjoying old content at a certain level shouldn’t be suddenly sent back to square 1 or barred from doing it.

 

And not everything is about ego (actually from your post, you seem to have a pretty big one) and bragging: sometimes it’s just about having fun playing a game with a suitable challenge and nice peole and a lot of people were having fun playing NiM with stacks and added mechanics and challenge from HM since quite a while now. Now they have had the rug pulled from under their feet. It’s not like simply making the new ops harder which is fine: we are talking about old content that they were already doing. Building new nim groups is becoming harder and many experienced players that have cleared the content over and over are not willing to reprog everything with a group new to nim.

 

Why would anyone care if others are having fun at different settings? Nim was easier since about 2 years now... this sudden move of removing all the stacks with no options makes no sense.

 

This game needs more content at different levels for everyone, not less.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Eriamea

[pivcelin]

because this 30 stack simplification was not intended, its just a poor experiment with scaling which got corrected xd

game supposed to have several difficulty modes

[Flame_Ya_One]

And not everything is about ego (actually from your post, you seem to have a pretty big one) and bragging: sometimes it’s just about having fun playing a game with a suitable challenge and nice peole and a lot of people were having fun playing NiM with stacks and added mechanics and challenge from HM. Now they have had the rug pulled from under their feet. It’s not like simply making the new ops harder which is fine: we are talking about old content that they were already doing. Building new nim groups is becoming harder and many experienced players that have cleared the content over and over are not willing to reprog everything with a group new to nim. This game needs more content for everyone, not less.

 

Why would anyone care if others are having fun at different settings?

 

Well, NIM raiding is supposed to be some other kind of fun, not the same u have in SM/HM. It is meant to be built around achievement through getting better, tryharding, learning the fight and knowing not only ur class but the entire group composition. Ppl were not bothering about armor debuffs lately, there's nothing to talk about...

 

And all u need to build a new NIM team from scratch is 8 ppl willing to learn, fail, learn and fail again, a lot of failing. This will work, but only if ppl are able to work hard to become better. You don't even need experienced ppl (it is profitable, no doubt, but not required). Otherwise welcome to SM/HM.

[SteveStarwalker]

Scaling and class balancing is messed up, this **** is NiMx2 compared to the 2.0, 3.0 days. Not talking about DPS checks. Edited February 19, 2020 by SteveStarwalker

[robertthebard]

Well, NIM raiding is supposed to be some other kind of fun, not the same u have in SM/HM. It is meant to be built around achievement through getting better, tryharding, learning the fight and knowing not only ur class but the entire group composition. Ppl were not bothering about armor debuffs lately, there's nothing to talk about...

 

You say this like it's something new, so I'm going to have to assume that you're new, newish? Here's an interesting tidbit for you, I've watched elitists come in an complain about gear on other players, and then not understand the mechanics of the raid. Blaring alarms, flashing lights, and they stand there and eat the laser in TBC, and can't figure out why, with all that gear, their squishy sage died from it. This happened years before stacks were ever a thing. Ironically, they preached the virtues of gear, sounded a lot like you preaching how NiM should be done, actually, only to die the very first time the mechanics required them to do anything but press some hotkeys...

 

And all u need to build a new NIM team from scratch is 8 ppl willing to learn, fail, learn and fail again, a lot of failing. This will work, but only if ppl are able to work hard to become better. You don't even need experienced ppl (it is profitable, no doubt, but not required). Otherwise welcome to SM/HM.

 

I'd quit raiding for years before stacks were a thing, and I haven't been back long enough to have this mechanic even apply to me yet, so I really don't care one way or the other, but it seems to me that what you're preaching here is exactly what those players were doing. I'm with you though, NiM should be the hardest content in the game, and as such, they should disable tactical/set bonuses in NiM too, so that players are actually having to play their toon, instead of playing the mechanics outside of their toon. This is what's got your ire up, right? Players having it easier than you presumably did?

 

Actually, let's fine tune this a bit; they should disable it in any content where it wasn't factored in when they built it. Players were doing clears before it existed in this content, surely such pro raiders as yourself, and others, wouldn't mind going "old school" on content that definitively fits that description, right? I have to wonder if a mechanic was added that reduced player gear to what the original requirement was for the content, if we'd still see "speed runs"? I wonder, if this were happening from the beginning, how many people here telling players to "git gud" would even have any completions, especially if set and tactical bonuses were also disabled for these raids? I don't have the answer to that, but it's an interesting thought experiment, especially concerning disabling the crutches of set/tactical bonuses. I'm betting that a lot of the "git gud" players would be quick to dismiss this as folly, right?

[Exly]

In my opinion, they should never have left old ops at level 70, and then try to balance them around veterans edge stacks.

 

Instead, they should have just made all raids scale up to level 75. Then things like adrenals, and relics would work, and optimizing gear beyond adjusting accuracy, alacrity and critical would make sense. On top of that the sets giving a 2 piece set bonus granting 2% mastery would make sense for old PvE content, and not just for the new op.

[Toraak]

I've done NiM ops many years ago. With that being said I don't see an issue having a toggle switch to add or remove the Vet edge buff.

 

1) is NiM supposed to be challenging? Yes. Challenging can very among groups however. Not every group is capable of doing NiM Operations, and if allowing an option for having the Vet edge buff allows more groups to progress I don't see an issue with it. Having content that is challenging is great, but having less then 1% of the playerbase even play that content is silly. Making an option to open that content up to more players is a good idea.

 

2) As I said having a Toggle switch for it means those that want the ultimate challenge can still have it.

 

3) As for ego, NiM Operations only give 2 things that others can't get currently, Achievements and Special Mounts. It doesn't bother me at all allowing more of the community to get these. Neither affect me if someone else gets them.

 

4) With Gear now based on each individuals Item level (and from any ingame activity), it's not like BiS is only obtainable in NiM so this is taken out of the Ego equation. Everyone can already get BiS from doing easier content anyway.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Toraak

[SteveStarwalker]

In my opinion, they should never have left old ops at level 70, and then try to balance them around veterans edge stacks.

 

Instead, they should have just made all raids scale up to level 75. Then things like adrenals, and relics would work, and optimizing gear beyond adjusting accuracy, alacrity and critical would make sense. On top of that the sets giving a 2 piece set bonus granting 2% mastery would make sense for old PvE content, and not just for the new op.

 

Agreed, they need to scale operations up to 75 or bring back VE. NiM OPs are broken at their current state. My guild has old school NiM healers that could barely keep up on tank damage with "VE stacks", but when we did this crap years ago it wasn't this intense. So now we have to go to meta classes instead of playing what we want...doesn't seem right.

Edited February 20, 2020 by SteveStarwalker

[sharkfishman]

In my opinion, they should never have left old ops at level 70, and then try to balance them around veterans edge stacks.

 

Instead, they should have just made all raids scale up to level 75. Then things like adrenals, and relics would work, and optimizing gear beyond adjusting accuracy, alacrity and critical would make sense. On top of that the sets giving a 2 piece set bonus granting 2% mastery would make sense for old PvE content, and not just for the new op.

 

It was all about laziness/minimum time investment. They wanted to be able to add level 80 content some day as well without having to go back and retune everything. Unfortunately, I think that their carrot didn't work as well as they thought because they (once again) underestimated how much players in this game HATE RNG.

 

They thought, oh well, who cares how hard NiM TFB is honestly, most of the 1% are going to be running DXUN VM and MM over and over, so they're going to really be focused on getting those sets that practically never drop, and they'll keep going back!

 

What they didn't anticipate is how much players hate running OPs without getting any kind of guaranteed reward from the bosses. DXUN bosses don't even give you a guaranteed drop for the entire group! Now they're trying to scramble to give players a reason to keep leveling those gear sets and buying those amps...

[dready_tv]

Scaling and class balancing is messed up, this **** is NiMx2 compared to the 2.0, 3.0 days. Not talking about DPS checks.

 

Agreed, they need to scale operations up to 75 or bring back VE. NiM OPs are broken at their current state. My guild has old school NiM healers that could barely keep up on tank damage with "VE stacks", but when we did this crap years ago it wasn't this intense. So now we have to go to meta classes instead of playing what we want...doesn't seem right.

 

Are you actually serious or trolling? I honestly don't know.

 

You do know that in 3.0 you LITERALLY out level the entire operations it was beyond a joke at that stage, of course it wasn't this intense when the entire operation was a massive memeshow. & then you are trying to make a comparision between out-leveling the operations and with how they are right now? Jesus Christ.

 

If your old nim school healers couldn't keep tanks up with VE stacks they are simply not nim healers, they did it in 3.0 when EVERYONE could do it easily, that is the hard truth no matter how rude that might come of.

 

Also you do not need meta classes to clear old nims either, i've seen sorc healers & other "non-meta" classes clear it within a week of stack removal so it comes down to the player not the class in the end.

 

If people want a silly switch for nims to provide stacks? here is one.. it is called nightmare crystal use it to get ur "well-deserved" rewards.

All tho honestly they shouldnt even provide achievements, mounts or any other rewards for even using those crystals, they should earned not provide it for everyone for no effort.

 

Nims without stacks is NOT broken far from it, it is actually fun to play now & it is not impossible very far from it. Many people have already cleared it. Try & spend more time improving urself & show some dedication wanting to clear it instead of acting like this is some kind of SM operation where it should be so easy just to yolo through it because people are drooling over the rewards they don't deserve.

Edited February 20, 2020 by dready_tv

[SteveStarwalker]

 

Nims without stacks is NOT broken far from it, it is actually fun to play now & it is not impossible very far from it. Many people have already cleared it. Try & spend more time improving urself & show some dedication wanting to clear it instead of acting like this is some kind of SM operation where it should be so easy just to yolo through it because people are drooling over the rewards they don't deserve.

 

From reading your previous post it seems you're the main one trolling the entire thread. Good job. And it's broken.

Edited February 20, 2020 by SteveStarwalker

[FerkWork]

Did 4/5 TFB with a pug today. Still had an hour on the timer at Terror but had to stop do to people having to go for other raids. Still found plenty of time to meme on bosses. So whoever was claiming TFB without stacks was impossible that was very cute.

[Anyaka_Jedi]

Did 4/5 TFB with a pug today. Still had an hour on the timer at Terror but had to stop do to people having to go for other raids. Still found plenty of time to meme on bosses. So whoever was claiming TFB without stacks was impossible that was very cute.

 

When you say pug... Some select group from a select discord? Or some regular Joe's from fleet...