Return Veteran's Edge stacks to NIM Raids

[SabreDD]

I am just giving my vote to this thread. Return VE stacks to NiM raids, please, and stop sneaking changes upon us. We are the raiding community in this game and deserve being able to give feedback before such changes are implemented.

[dready_tv]

Do you have any links for that?

 

I would love to watch them, because I think that would add a lot to the discussion.

 

Here is one of the kill video of Izax Nim without stacks, there is even more videos on the other bosses there as well.

 

Also there is more than this team that have cleared it & ALL old nims with the stack removal.

So yes it is way more than possible to do it without VE Stacks. There is also videos out on old nims as well with no stacks.

These clears(Except Gods cuz those stacks was removed way before the rest) happened a few days after they were removed & yet some people decide to go on massive cry mode now when you cannot get easy kills anymore, you don't even give it any time, people just want free loot, titles & mounts for absolutely no effort what so ever, such a joke.

 

It have been proven over & over already just within a few days of the VE change that you can clear it all if you have the potential to do so.

Here is also a pug group clearing SNV Timed with no stacks.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/552477104

There are many more out there from other operations being cleared with no VE stacks so look around and learn.

 

The only people who actually are complaining about the stack removal are those who got everything for free before with little or no effort at all & when you all of a sudden start to face a challenge & arent good enough for it people decide enter a full babyrage mode.

 

I've kill several bosses in gods & old nims with no stacks included so stop whining and just practice more.

 

Stacks need to remain gone for challenge & difficulty to ensure that Nightmare STAYS Nightmare and not becomes another memeshow like it have been before where people who haven't really been ready for that kind of content can just step in and yolo it.

Edited February 17, 2020 by dready_tv

[AllisonLightning]

Let me guess, you're one of those group ads with "have achievement, and NiM gear for SM", right? I'd almost bet I quit raiding here before some of these people even started, maybe even before they started the game, but those were always fun to watch. Taking bets on whether they were on the forums five minutes after they finished those ops complaining the game was too easy.

 

No one in this thread debating over this would mandate gear or even a level 75 for SM content. The only people with those requirements are SM players.

[robertthebard]

No one in this thread debating over this would mandate gear or even a level 75 for SM content. The only people with those requirements are SM players.

 

You **** your friends, and I'll **** mine, but let's not **** each other, because we both know better than that. If they feel like it's going to impede their completion, that player in question isn't in. This isn't my first rodeo, and the raiding scene is the same across the industry. In fact, there are guilds that do nothing else, and they likely have "branches" here too.

 

To be frank, these stacks weren't even a thing when I quit raiding. They wouldn't be a thing for a couple of years, and yet, I have my completions, at least the ones I wanted to care about. The new stuff is too flashy for me to play, due to my migraines, the same thing happened to me in Tera, the endgame was too flashy, so I had to bail out. Keep 'em, don't, whatever. I'm just amazed at the hypocrisy inherent in "you must be this tall to ride this ride, unless it's going to make it easier for you than it was for me", which is what this whole railing against this is, from where I'm sitting.

 

This content is years beyond relevant, and years beyond required for gearing, so why else would anyone feel the need to "make it harder" for someone else? Stacks or no is not going to affect those of us that have done this in the past to the point of being able to run most of it in our sleep. We've seen the video links provided in this thread. So the only thing it does is make it easier for someone else to maybe get there, and we can't have that, right?

[Brisselio]

Leave the stacks in for all older content. Why people tout off about completing ops that have been completed years ago on NiM is ridiculous, unless you did it when it was current content what difference does it make if someone gets the stacks or not? Current content should not have the stacks obviously, but 5+ year old ops? Gimme a break and let people enjoy the operations and progress through them. Server first and world first for these have long since been completed you aren't going to gain anything from more groups being able to complete it.

 

Coming from someone who raided TfB on NiM when it was released and remembers what it was like way back when, let people enjoy it. It sure isn't as challenging now as it was back then. So take the elitist bs out and let people enjoy the amazing operations this game has to offer.

[silosaridious]

Some of the people posting clears have been raiding a long time and cleared content previously while it was tough. I haven't. I'm newer to the raiding scene, but have also been clearing some content without stacks still. I haven't gotten to clear everything again yet, but since the removal of VE stacks I've cleared dp again and made it through several bosses on some of the others. It isn't just people that have run the content for a long time that are happy with the change. There are some of us that haven't been raiding all that long (less than a year in HM/NiM raids here) that still want content that tests us and makes us get better at our roles. There's definitely more of a difference between NiM and HM content than there was before the stacks were removed, but it seems like a much smaller gap still than the one between HM and SM content. From the runs I've done so far with a couple groups and pugs I've really enjoyed the removal of stacks. Content is still clearable even for some of us that aren't nearly on the level of failure or farming components, but it's tough enough that I feel a need to get better to make sure things can go smoother in future runs (I haven't gotten a timed run since the removal of stacks, which is fine because a bunch of us were messing up a lot in each of the runs and timed runs should be tough and require at least pretty good play). Edited February 19, 2020 by silosaridious

[DeannaVoyager]

Nim ops with stacks were too easy for sure. However going overboard by removing them completely, without any balancing is not helping the raiding community at all. I wouldn't call people who were able to clear them easily in 258 gear and 6.0 with stacks bad, like some elitists try to suggest. They may not be exceptionally great (like the 2-3 groups who can clear them now), but not bad either. I've been lucky enough not to run into many toxic nim players in game, but seeing some of the responses here I can understand why people have that perception of the community.

 

If the ops will be left as they are now, the only thing that will happen is people will quit progressing, because it has become impossible for most raiders in the game. Especially since they already had a chance to clear stuff, and now it has been taken away. Even if just one or two members from a team give up and move on, it will be really difficult to find competent replacements. If the spots aren't filled fast enough, the rest of the team will start to look for other teams or other games. That can't be good for the game in the long run. In the future, if you want the cheevos, titles and mounts, the best way to get them is a sale run. Steady income for the few groups who still can clear them, as long as they also don't lose a member or two from their teams.

 

Personally, I'm not sure I want to progress on old bosses for weeks or months, since I've already cleared them so many times. There's no carrot for me anymore to do so. I'm not going to get a new cheevo and I already have the titles and most mounts I care about. If my team will get stuck on something we've already had on farm mode, I really don't see the point of doing them.

[dready_tv]

Gear became less relevant with the bolster system in raids due to certain statlocks, you still need to optimize your tertiary stats for min/max stuff but still not that required.

 

Top tier raiders like to continue to raid old operations regardless of it being so called "relevant" or not.

Gods Nim provide a way higher difficulty than any other operation out there by a far, but running one operation over & over just for the difficulty is not that fun in the end, ESPECIALLY since most of us have continously been playing gods for a very long time & now where the removal of stacks provide a wider option for those players to create some variations to actually play real nightmare content (FINALLY), where you don't out gear it or get help from stacks.

 

That bracket of player capable of clearing things without stacks is way larger than some people like to believe, just because you don't see it or choose not to doesn't mean they exist & it is not just Failure or Farming Components that clear things, they are just doing it faster than the others.

 

That PuG snv run i posted in my previous post have people for muliple teams, where some don't have teams and just play for fun, yet they managed to clear it within a few days of the stacks removal?

There is even raiders that started to get back into the game because of those stacks being removed, since with the stacks it was nothing but a glorified 8man flashpoint & people just got bored & left.

 

The people who are actually complaining are most likely those who haven't even put in even a fraction of the time like the rest have in progressing the old nims(including gods) or reclearing it to perfect their gameplay/role.

It is supposed to be the hardest PVE content out there and it is not supposed to be cleared in a week or two if you are new to it or recently getting back into the game & are unfamiliar with all the new changes.

 

It took months to clear it all old nims & gods, over half a year for some teams but they never gave up, they never complained or cried like babies because they knew that they simply just had to perform better individually & as a team to actually clear the content.

 

Why is it so hard to accept the hard truth sometimes? No you are not good enough for this content, you do not deserve the rewards you get by clearing it. It should not be accessable for everyone but it can be if you actually put in the time required for it to get better & develop as a player so you can clear it as it is supposed to be.

 

If you seriously don't want to actually earn it & just cry like a baby for rewards for no effort, skill or time spent then just pop some damn nightmare crystals and be done with it.

[OrdinaryImperial]

Nim ops with stacks were too easy for sure. However going overboard by removing them completely, without any balancing is not helping the raiding community at all. I wouldn't call people who were able to clear them easily in 258 gear and 6.0 with stacks bad, like some elitists try to suggest. They may not be exceptionally great (like the 2-3 groups who can clear them now), but not bad either. I've been lucky enough not to run into many toxic nim players in game, but seeing some of the responses here I can understand why people have that perception of the community.

 

What do you mean 2-3 groups who can clear nims now? 20 teams managed to clear gods nim in 5.x, half of them did timed run. Do you think they cant do old nims without stacks now or you think those nims harder than gods on release?

[AwesomeTacoCat]

Nim ops with stacks were too easy for sure. However going overboard by removing them completely, without any balancing is not helping the raiding community at all. I wouldn't call people who were able to clear them easily in 258 gear and 6.0 with stacks bad, like some elitists try to suggest. They may not be exceptionally great (like the 2-3 groups who can clear them now), but not bad either. I've been lucky enough not to run into many toxic nim players in game, but seeing some of the responses here I can understand why people have that perception of the community.

 

If the ops will be left as they are now, the only thing that will happen is people will quit progressing, because it has become impossible for most raiders in the game. Especially since they already had a chance to clear stuff, and now it has been taken away. Even if just one or two members from a team give up and move on, it will be really difficult to find competent replacements. If the spots aren't filled fast enough, the rest of the team will start to look for other teams or other games. That can't be good for the game in the long run. In the future, if you want the cheevos, titles and mounts, the best way to get them is a sale run. Steady income for the few groups who still can clear them, as long as they also don't lose a member or two from their teams.

 

Personally, I'm not sure I want to progress on old bosses for weeks or months, since I've already cleared them so many times. There's no carrot for me anymore to do so. I'm not going to get a new cheevo and I already have the titles and most mounts I care about. If my team will get stuck on something we've already had on farm mode, I really don't see the point of doing them.

 

This is an excellent summation of the problem and everything in this post applies 100% to me as well. Well said.

[dready_tv]

Personally, I'm not sure I want to progress on old bosses for weeks or months, since I've already cleared them so many times. There's no carrot for me anymore to do so. I'm not going to get a new cheevo and I already have the titles and most mounts I care about. If my team will get stuck on something we've already had on farm mode, I really don't see the point of doing them.

 

If you claim to have killed it before & still require to progress it for weeks & months just because they removed the stacks?

Which by the way you cannot possible know yet because IT HAVE NOT EVEN GONE A WEEK YET with no stacks.

Then you either did that when it was massively easy or you got carried by others.

You should not need that amount of time to actually clear it again due to stack removal if u have done it many times before as you claim.

Edited February 17, 2020 by dready_tv

[Rion_Starkiller]

If you claim to have killed it before & still require to progress it for weeks & months just because they removed the stacks?

Which by the way you cannot possible know yet because IT HAVE NOT EVEN GONE A WEEK YET with no stacks.

Then you either did that when it was massively easy or you got carried by others.

You should not need that amount of time to actually clear it again due to stack removal if u have done it many times before as you claim.

 

Many of us play on multiple teams. For example, I'm in five teams, but I'm only confident in 2-3 of them to clear **** now.

 

Tacticals and set bonuses are what make NiM easy in 6.0. Ninja nerfing VE stacks from NiM raids aren't going to magically balance NiM raids all of a sudden.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Rion_Starkiller

[LordZiost]

Many of us play on multiple teams. For example, I'm in five teams, but I'm only confident in 2-3 of them to clear **** now.

 

That kind of just proves the point that NiM had gotten too easy. NiM is not for most of the community, it is supposed to be challenging and something you work for.

 

Tacticals and set bonuses are what make NiM easy in 6.0. Ninja nerfing VE stacks from NiM raids aren't going to magically balance NiM raids all of a sudden.

If tacticals and set bonuses make NiM easy, then you should be fine still clearing all the raids, as most of the set bonuses have not been changed or nerfed at all since 6.0

[LordZiost]

You probably haven't seen anyone asking, because it happened in a closed, secret PTS phase. Who was invited to that? Who knows. Probably Failure and similar 1337 folks.

 

The PTS was not closed, NiM raids with 0 veteran's edge stacks were on the Open PTS at the same time as the Alderaan stronghold. Everyone could have copied a character over and tested it themselves. This idea of a Failure or FC conspiracy to remove stacks is ridiculous. The developers without anyone asking them to, removed veterans edge stacks and asked personally one or two teams to test the raids on the OPEN PTS. Everyone agreed raids were too easy but no one campaigned for 0 stacks like some casuals are complaining about.

[SineOris]

I can confirm that all of it was Farming Components secret plan to double the prices for sale runs so don't be srurpised when they ask you to pay 600mil for wings

[TUXs]

I'm just happy we have enough NiM raiders to have even noticed.

[robertthebard]

Many of us play on multiple teams. For example, I'm in five teams, but I'm only confident in 2-3 of them to clear **** now.

 

Tacticals and set bonuses are what make NiM easy in 6.0. Ninja nerfing VE stacks from NiM raids aren't going to magically balance NiM raids all of a sudden.

 

That's an interesting point. Maybe they should deactivate tactical and set bonuses in NiM as well, in order to make it challenging. Get the popcorn ready for the incoming rage.

[DeannaVoyager]

If you claim to have killed it before & still require to progress it for weeks & months just because they removed the stacks?

Which by the way you cannot possible know yet because IT HAVE NOT EVEN GONE A WEEK YET with no stacks.

Then you either did that when it was massively easy or you got carried by others.

You should not need that amount of time to actually clear it again due to stack removal if u have done it many times before as you claim.

 

I don't claim anything, I haven't even been on the 6.1 NiMs yet so I have no idea how long it will take to progress through them now. I said I have no interest progressing again on the same old content we had on farm mode already if it's as bad as people on the forums say. I'm pretty sure we'd kill clear them all (eventually), but if we are missing one regular person on a raid day, it will be really difficult to find a competent replacement now.

 

I also said they were too easy, and I know that because we took in a few first timers (as we needed backups) and cleared 4/5 DP NiM with them. When we were progressing on it, Tyrans alone took 2 weeks before we got the first kill. After we learned it, it's no biggie anymore, but yes, it took a while back then.

 

There should be a compromise of some kind, that wouldn't leave out those who are good enough for clean kills in a bit easier mode, but not yet awesome enough to go without stacks. HM isn't the solution, because that's way too easy and boring now. I'm all up for greater challenge, but I already got cheevos, titles and so on, so I don't have any incentive for possibly massive wipefest. If the ops are turned into proper NiM again, there should be new cheevos to go for. New something.

[Aulus_Claudius]

a lot of those calling themselves NIMraiders, are those that know the most about how to avoid having to play mechanics by stacking certain (FOTM)classes and using all the abilities (reflects, stealth out and what else not) and glitches that trivialize the encounters compared to their initial release.

This is 100% my biggest problem with the raiding community. Furthermore, if you actually want to play the bosses' mechanics as they were intended, a lot of these "1337" players and groups start wiping because they have no idea how to play without cheesing or abusing FotM setups.

 

My issue with them removing stacks is not that they did it, it's how and when. The game has never been in a more disgusting state of imbalance, with PTs and Lightning Sorcs worlds above most of their melee and ranged competition respectively even post-nerf, and Sorc healers similarly lagging. Balance the game first, preferably fix several bosses so that they can no longer be cheesed, then make NiM harder again.

 

Some premade guild's timerun video with no stacks with a group that's trained together for years which can beat the content by running 2+ PTs and 2 Assassin tanks and avoiding every mechanic possible with stealth, shroud, rebounder, or just plain DPS is meaningless, and doesn't show that the content is well-scaled at all. The issue is that random NiM raiding is largely dead now - this isn't some fatalistic prediction, but the reality of what I've seen on my server since the patch hit - and it's not because they made the content harder per se, which most of the people I know would welcome after the faceroll raids with stacks, but that they made it unnecessarily hard for the current balance situation in the game.

 

All of this doesn't even begin to touch on the sheer level of DTPS coming in, which is (adjusted for changes in max HP) significantly higher than when these ops were brand new, combined with the unfortunate state of the Sorc healer, only compounded by the fact that the class was actually well-balanced on the PTS until they decided to leave its only useable tactical out of the release version. Most wipes I've seen since the patch hit are simply DTPS>HTPS, and I can't even blame the healers when they're really good players and the major fault lies with the devs.

 

Nerfing PT/Sorc DDs and Merc healers isn't the answer either, because then certain fights (like Nahut in the case of PTs) will become nigh impossible. Everything needs to be buffed and rebalanced to that level if the stacks are to stay gone, preferably soon before a significant portion of the raiding community jumps ship.

[MJSCHNEIDER]

Despite being discussed in three different threads right now there has been zero response from bioware.

Granted, they deployed the patch just before the weekend (in the hope that the anger would have ebbed down by the time they got back to work on monday ? ) but by now I wouldve expected to hear at least something.

 

Theres been a lot of attacks, namecalling etc, but also hidden in between those posts there have been some suggestions for a middleground and I personally would really like to get the devs perspective on things as well as some reasoning for these changes at all.

 

Also - if it is true that certain people were asked personally to test the no stacks Nightmare ops on the open PTS - why has that fact not been mentioned in the PTS Patch notes so everyone wouldve been informed about it ?

[AwesomeTacoCat]

I hasn't even been a week since stacks were removed, but in that small time frame I can confidently say that there are far raids going on in 6.1 than in 6.0. I play on Satele Shan and a quick glance at most of the raiding discords and big raiding guild discords will show that the number of raids has gone down since 6.1 dropped. That's bad.

 

Note, I'm not just talking about NiM raids. The number of NiM raids + HM raids is down. So all of the elitist "everyone who isn't capable of doing NiM can just go do HM" bullsh*t has not actually eventuated. People who were doing NiM raids in 6.0 have not gone back to do a bunch of HM raids (because they're ridiculously easy), but instead appear to just not be raiding. Again, caveated with a small time period, there are fewer people raiding in 6.1 than in 6.0. That is bad for the game. Period.

Edited February 17, 2020 by AwesomeTacoCat

[theJudeAbides]

This is 100% my biggest problem with the raiding community. Furthermore, if you actually want to play the bosses' mechanics as they were intended, a lot of these "1337" players and groups start wiping because they have no idea how to play without cheesing or abusing FotM setups.

 

My issue with them removing stacks is not that they did it, it's how and when. The game has never been in a more disgusting state of imbalance, with PTs and Lightning Sorcs worlds above most of their melee and ranged competition respectively even post-nerf, and Sorc healers similarly lagging. Balance the game first, preferably fix several bosses so that they can no longer be cheesed, then make NiM harder again.

 

Some premade guild's timerun video with no stacks with a group that's trained together for years which can beat the content by running 2+ PTs and 2 Assassin tanks and avoiding every mechanic possible with stealth, shroud, rebounder, or just plain DPS is meaningless, and doesn't show that the content is well-scaled at all. The issue is that random NiM raiding is largely dead now - this isn't some fatalistic prediction, but the reality of what I've seen on my server since the patch hit - and it's not because they made the content harder per se, which most of the people I know would welcome after the faceroll raids with stacks, but that they made it unnecessarily hard for the current balance situation in the game.

 

All of this doesn't even begin to touch on the sheer level of DTPS coming in, which is (adjusted for changes in max HP) significantly higher than when these ops were brand new, combined with the unfortunate state of the Sorc healer, only compounded by the fact that the class was actually well-balanced on the PTS until they decided to leave its only useable tactical out of the release version. Most wipes I've seen since the patch hit are simply DTPS>HTPS, and I can't even blame the healers when they're really good players and the major fault lies with the devs.

 

Nerfing PT/Sorc DDs and Merc healers isn't the answer either, because then certain fights (like Nahut in the case of PTs) will become nigh impossible. Everything needs to be buffed and rebalanced to that level if the stacks are to stay gone, preferably soon before a significant portion of the raiding community jumps ship.

 

FINALLY, someone who gets it (and can better articulate it better than myself). All of the people in our raid group have been playing this game for a long time. Our Sage heals was doing HMs/NIMs before I ever start ops, yet her EHPS is way down due to a lackluster healer set and tactical. Our DPS is solid and isn't the issue here, it's the sheer amount of damage going out to tanks with very small health pools who are supposed to be healed by an under-performing class.

 

NIM was never a "face-roll" for us. Then again, we actually do all the mechanics and don't rely on cheese methods. If they're going to keep VE stacks gone, then they're gonna have buff Sage heals and Tank health, as well as adjust some of the damage values on some of the bosses because it's just insane right now. Even when we had VE stacks, our healers (who again, are NOT noobs, but are really good healers) could barely keep up.

 

But what's worst of all right now is BW's COMPLETE lack of any further communication. It just goes to show how little they actually care about the NIM raiding community. My only real question I have is: Why did you bother doing this place? Couldn't your time have been better spent creating more re-skinned armors and mounts for the GTN?

[dready_tv]

They did comment on it. Musco made a post about it.

 

If people have already been given up in under a week? Then maybe it would be better of not having such people trying to force nim to become a flashpoint by ragequtting like children for some increased difficulty by not even giving it a chance to improve themselves to clear the content.

 

I bet these are people who were doing Nims in 5.8 & 6.0(like you mentioned) when it was a massive & utter joke, they had been massively spoiled playing a content that was way to easy and got used to it.

They are being called 5.8/6.0 heroes for a reason.

 

I'm seeing pug groups going up left & right for nim even now on several discords & returning players due to stacks removal. There are alot of people doing nim & even doing full clears(inc. timed runs), re-progressing it getting multiple bosses already so maybe on ur discords they have diminished but they have increased on others due to these changes.

 

The tanks HP do not need to get higher. The dmg output compared to tanks HP can easily be controlled by rotation ur dcds better on each fight aka learn the fights & how each ability works to counter it properly since most of the abilities are predictable & on a timer, especially the heavy hitting abilities, this is what you learn by actually studying the fights instead of just mindlessly rolling your head on the keyboard for easy titles,mounts & cheevos so no more yolo mode where you barely had to pop any dcds properly at all & still could survive the hits with ease, that kind of nonsense belong in SM/HM not Nim.

 

Also not to be rude but if your healers are VERY GOOD, but barely could keep up with the healing in nims with VE stacks when a lot of people could literally solo heal that content? Then there is clearly an issue with the individuals execution/performance on their respective roles/classes for that kind of content.

 

The only part I do agree on is that Sage/Sorc healing is behind Merc/Operative in share output but way more than enough to heal every single fight but there is no point in bringing a Sage/Sorc over the other two healers since they are so much more ahead.

Edited February 18, 2020 by dready_tv

[SabreDD]

They did comment on it. Musco made a post about it.

 

If people have already been given up in under a week? Then maybe it would be better of not having such people trying to force nim to become a flashpoint by ragequtting like children for some increased difficulty by not even giving it a chance to improve themselves to clear the content.

 

I bet these are people who were doing Nims in 5.8 & 6.0(like you mentioned) when it was a massive & utter joke, they had been massively spoiled playing a content that was way to easy and got used to it.

They are being called 5.8/6.0 heroes for a reason.

 

I'm seeing pug groups going up left & right for nim even now on several discords & returning players due to stacks removal. There are alot of people doing nim & even doing full clears(inc. timed runs), re-progressing it getting multiple bosses already so maybe on ur discords they have diminished but they have increased on others due to these changes.

 

The tanks HP do not need to get higher. The dmg output compared to tanks HP can easily be controlled by rotation ur dcds better on each fight aka learn the fights & how each ability works to counter it properly since most of the abilities are predictable & on a timer, especially the heavy hitting abilities, this is what you learn by actually studying the fights instead of just mindlessly rolling your head on the keyboard for easy titles,mounts & cheevos so no more yolo mode where you barely had to pop any dcds properly at all & still could survive the hits with ease, that kind of nonsense belong in SM/HM not Nim.

 

Also not to be rude but if your healers are VERY GOOD, but barely could keep up with the healing in nims with VE stacks when a lot of people could literally solo heal that content? Then there is clearly an issue with the individuals execution/performance on their respective roles/classes for that kind of content.

 

The only part I do agree on is that Sage/Sorc healing is behind Merc/Operative in share output but way more than enough to heal every single fight but there is no point in bringing a Sage/Sorc over the other two healers since they are so much more ahead.

 

I agree, we are all not good enough 5.8 6.0 heroes. Only you and people who you raid with are good enough, try hard, progressing, skilled players. After all this whole argument is about the fact, that some teams that thought of themselves as good, are not good anymore. We do not know fights well enough, cannot rotate gcd’s properly and our healers are not on par. This used to be just the opinion of extremely good raiders, now it is the game standard. Thank you for this enlightenment.

[Ahwassa]

I'm seeing pug groups going up left & right for nim even now on several discords & returning players due to stacks removal. There are alot of people doing nim & even doing full clears(inc. timed runs), re-progressing it getting multiple bosses already so maybe on ur discords they have diminished but they have increased on others due to these changes.

 

So your opinion is that players returning and overall more people doing NIM is bad?

But what do I know - I´m just a 6.0 hero.