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Whats the point?


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As i said before the reason for you to get the best gear for doing nothing because you get it for bloody everything, beat a boss in a vet flash point heres 5 rng pieces of loot, beat a ops boss 5 pieces of the same loot, MM flashpoint 5 pieces of loot. You say i'm close minded and no one is stopping me from playing the way i want well guess what mate i can turn that right around no one was stopping you playing the way you wanted and again what does not having the best gear do to you nothing what did it do to me again nothing but you do know that ops wasn't the only way to get good gear was right? Crafters could RE mods and all that and learn the recipe and craft that gear and sell it so if you wanted the gear and didn't raid then you could of gotten it from the GTN or you could get the slightly less good crystal vender pieces instead and just transfer those to your old sets.

 

What do i get for letting other people get good loot nothing and i'm not saying REEEEEE THATS MY GOOD LOOT NOOOOOOOOES YOU CAN'T HAS IT, i don't give a rats *** what your gear is and i never did and if you read what i typed i only care about the health of the game long term and the OPS community, i don't do rated PvP anymore so i can't talk about that side of things but i can say that he OPS side is hurting, alot of people have left because their is no room for growth this everything scales and drops the same gear has killed alot of drive for people because other then Dxun their is nothing really new or worth doing with your guild over a pickup group and even pickup groups have changed.

 

It went from a place of wanting to actively learn how to do the OPS and learn your class to a place were it feels almost like their is always that 1 person that just wants to sabotageing the runs i've had about 3 groups that did that just this week, This game needs to sort it self out and tell everyone what it wants to be because as long as it keeps being this middle ground people will keep complaining, do i think everyone should progress yes and everyone has always had a path to progression be it OPS for the stright loot, PvP for their Expertise gear or even flashpoints and weekly quests for their vender crystals that gave nearly just as good gear as the OPS counterpart everyone had a path of progression and now their is no path of progression they are all just lumpped togeather, Could this be the best thing to happen to the game? Honestly i don't know i'm just hoping this doesn't have the same effect that WoW had when they opened M+ were it just damn well killed the Raiding side of things for most players because that is what i'm seeing now in this game that OPS is something that most players have just turned their noses up at because why do that when i can just do Red Reaper MM solo in less then 10mins and before you ask look it up people are doing this and it is insane.

 

Will you read this prob not because you seem to just lump me in with the closed minded ******s that just don't want to give out their shiny toys guess what you want them you can bloody have them i never gave 2 craps about keeping them exclusive you know how i said people used to help in the premade OPS groups yeah well i was one of them i helped alot of people learn the fights and their classes and i liked doing it, it helped people learn the OPS so hopefully they would do more which they did weekly even if it was just GF and people learned their classes which was good alround now you try and help people and most of them either just ignore you or tell you off, I love this game and want the best for it i just don't think this is the best way to do because all it ends up doing is funneling everyone to flashpoints which is what i see EVERYONE doing and you can just do it 24/7 if you have the time speeding up gearing way to fast.

 

Edit: also yeah no duh of course we play games to have fun but at the same time again we have challanges put in that we have to overcome to win, do we have to do them all no and me and meny others enjoy overcoming these challanges are they for everyone no but again they don't have to do it but at the same time the rewards for doing them is then outta reach for those people.

 

I understand what you mean, but has it ocurred to you that people move away from ops/raids cause they aren't as fun to them than say dungeons or pvp?

I do all kinds of content. I like to vary. I don't think forcing people to do something that they might not be able to do or dont enjoy to be able to progress their character is fun. I do think you still see this in WoW glasses where the shortest route to power is everything. It's an extremist view that that game employs and why features like housing are a laughing matter over there.

 

The game has to be fun for everyone and fun should always be the objective of games, not the shortest way to power.

 

With that said, ive got to correct some of the things you say. Ops and difficulty level increase the ammount of drops and quality of drops you get. It is not the same as running veteran flashpoint, for example. And as i mentioned Dxun has exclusive rewards too.

 

I think what needs to change is the way ops are delivered. I think people prefer pvp or FPs or dailies cause of lower commitment.

I do like what they have done with the group finder in putting 1 boss raids in there. That is exactly the solution to get more people raiding. It's to make it more acessible, not in difficulty but in commitment.

 

Also, i gotta say. This game went for years without a new OP and you think the raiding community is imploding now? Honestly, i don't think the solution is to force everyone back to doing ops if its clearly not what they want to do.

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I understand what you mean, but has it ocurred to you that people move away from ops/raids cause they aren't as fun to them than say dungeons or pvp?

I do all kinds of content. I like to vary. I don't think forcing people to do something that they might not be able to do or dont enjoy to be able to progress their character is fun. I do think you still see this in WoW glasses where the shortest route to power is everything. It's an extremist view that that game employs and why features like housing are a laughing matter over there.

 

The game has to be fun for everyone and fun should always be the objective of games, not the shortest way to power.

 

With that said, ive got to correct some of the things you say. Ops and difficulty level increase the ammount of drops and quality of drops you get. It is not the same as running veteran flashpoint, for example. And as i mentioned Dxun has exclusive rewards too.

 

I think what needs to change is the way ops are delivered. I think people prefer pvp or FPs or dailies cause of lower commitment.

I do like what they have done with the group finder in putting 1 boss raids in there. That is exactly the solution to get more people raiding. It's to make it more acessible, not in difficulty but in commitment.

 

Also, i gotta say. This game went for years without a new OP and you think the raiding community is imploding now? Honestly, i don't think the solution is to force everyone back to doing ops if its clearly not what they want to do.

 

Oh no the community imploded ages ago after they announced KOTFE but alot of them came back after they announced that they were going to be bring back regular OPS again which is one of the things that brought me back well other then wanting to play with my mates and new xpax.

 

I do agree that yes everyone has differant ways to play and i also agree that putting the one raid bosses in the GF was a good idea as most people don't really do them that much even when they were current other then the golden laama because of the isotopes.

 

The states of MMO's in general is in a weird state and honestly the way they are doing it now is both confusing and worrying. I honestly just don't see the way that they have done it now to be good since it will have major player burnout with the contant rewards, Humans are programed to go the path of lease resistance when it comes to getting what we want, Players want gear and now we have a path to unlimited gear and i'm seeing people going crazy to get it hell i'm already lost alot of guildys because they have just gone crazy farming fragments and mods to get their BiS from flashpoints.

 

At least when it was sending us into OPS we could only do it once a week on a toon so we had down time to just derp around and have fun in, I love OPS and that was were i had the most fun the in game is that to say i don't like flashpoints not at all i love doing them but at the same time i know that doing what they did now isn't a good idea because well like i said people are getting burned out because they are farming them 24/7, What would i do if i was in charge well honestly i don't know i can see where you are coming from having more paths for gearing is good but it has to be done right or we get what we got now which is just a shower of gear.

 

Honestly i don't know the best path no one does because we all want differant things, i want the game to still be good and have people running alot of differant content so we don't get burned out but the thing is you can only do the same thing so meny times before it gets boring and i am near that limit, so meny hammer stations and red reaper and before you ask no i don't just have them selected i have all selected for the bonus everyone just wants to do them, I wish they would let us take a few off and still get the rewards i could take those 2 off in a heartbeat.

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It was proposed, during PTS for 6.0, that they developers re-introduce the concept of tiers for flashpoints and operations. If you recall, this existed in 1.x and even in 2.x for a time ... For example, Kaon/Lost Island were considered tier 2 flashpoints in the 1.x era. Explosive Conflict and TFB were tier 2 ops during 1.x (yeah, TFB was originally a 1.x op that came out just before 2.0 and was re-scaled to 55 to fit with S&V).

 

I would support re-introducing the tiering with appropriate scaling of rewards to match the difficulty. I don't know that this would completely address your concerns, but I would tend to agree that harder content should more reliably award set boni and tacticals; mods with legendary-level amplifiers that make sense (i.e. no Force Sensitivity on Barrels and no Periodic Intensity on Resistive armorings); BiS item modifications like lethal 80R-2/3/5. It can be frustrating to do a vet mode hammer station and get a 306 optimized hilt, and do master mode Umbara and get 302 crap, or worse, the proverbial "slap in the face" of 306 A mods. Of course, I get plenty of that junk on vet mode too, I just have a better chance of getting a tactical from the master mode than I do the veteran.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I came back after a very long time away and saw that everyone just runs veteran flashpoints now for all their gear, it is rather disappointing it takes all purpose and reason out of doing operations and really gets rid of the endgame grind, I have absolutely no idea why they would do this outside of wanting casual players to be able to get the top end gear. It feels lackluster and doesn't feel like an accomplishment when you hit 306 and have all your gear perfected, which doesn't take very long it took me about a week and a half on my shadow to get it done. Now what am I supposed to do? Continue to run flashpoints and do conquest and make credits? If operations have no purpose and do not give better gear why should I bother to continue to sub? Giving everyone the top end gear for running flashpoints nonstop is not a solution to making everyone feel included, it cheapens the gear climb which this game had it pretty good back in 2.0 till about 4.0 it reduces it down to what can people do that requires the lowest level of coordination possible, I have always loved the operations in this game and was excited to come back and do them again but after this gearing process and getting to max so quickly it really took a lot of the fun out of it. Obviously this game has gotten a lot more casual over the years and has massively shifted towards that.
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" get the best gear for doing nothing". Completely false, as i pointed out before. The vertical progression is the easy part, the hard part comes after with getting the best augments, the best mods/enhancements, amps, set bonuses and tacticals. Easy for you cause maybe you exploited that credit box?

 

It's selfishness of the highest degree. What do you lose for letting other people have gear progression? Why do you think Operations should be the only challenge in the game and why do you think that dedication to a task can't yield rewards either? You think you are the only one entitled to progression and it can only happen in the way you want it to. Operations aren't even the hardest content in the game. PvP is. And in PvP you need the best gear or you get wrecked. But you want to do your operations and then come wreck other people in PvP cause reasons right? Or take your better gear and flex your e-peen? Skill determines your e-peen and wether you win fights at some point with this gear system. That is the way it should be. Besides, it's always been ridiculous for the hardest content to drop the hardest gear, because what will you need that gear for? You already beat the highest challenge, you obviously don't need it.

 

Take that entitlement to someone that cares. You want to do ops for your gear, go right ahead. You have that option. You don't have the option to deny others so you feel better about running them. This is not in fact hurting the game at all. It is engaging more people with the gearing system and progression, not forcing anyone into just one gameplay type they may not be looking to do. Instead it lets them focus on fun, on doing what they want and still have a progression path.

For you it has to be the exclusive ops power carrot or no deal. It is utterly close minded. No one is stopping you from playing the way you want, what entitles you to do that for other people? If you don't want to play for fun, then don't play. It means you were forcing yourself in order to get the carrot. I don't think you are a majority of any kind on this. Honestly, not even happy to have exclusive gear on Dxun, you need to have full exclusivity on gear. Honestly...

 

Selfishness in the highest degree? Its a game, cool it. Other people's gear progression is the RNG system that has been set up into 306 and fine tuning from there. Its still vertical because there is a clear increase in numbers. Operations are the hardest content in the game when done at the appropriate difficulty. Flashpoints are points are laughable at best to anyone that can play the game. Hands down, they are not challenging to someone who has run them more than three times. Operations require much more coordination, skill, and overall effort and therefore, the reward should be higher. PvP is not the hardest content in the game once you are familiar with it, RNG is a factor due to class comps and cool downs but those are factors in many fights currently as well - if you disagree with that, you probably have not done an Operation on NiM. Better gear is the reward for harder content as is the case in every major MMO. If you don't want the better gear and just the accomplishment, good for you. Some people like to carry that into the next phase to make their goals more attainable. It is anything but entitlement to think that someone deserves a greater reward for greater challenge. If you think PvP should reward better gear for "harder content" so be it, or from your point of view that is entitlement too. To get to the best stuff you should have to do the hardest work, or do want a free hand out from devs each week?

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  • 6 months later...

I can't believe what I read - there exist no unique Gear Rewards from doing Normal and Master OPs.

 

I was so excited about endgame when people told me about lockouts and even using another character to play OP even though of Lock out to get the gear, yet this is somehow untrue.

W.T.F.?

 

First page says it all and there is nothing to add, point is people do it 1x for the achievement and challenge, and afterwards finding people is hard. There is no point in NOT rewarding higher difficulty content, why? because who wants to SEE these OPs can do the story mode - that is the only thing always being critizied in the milking MMO-genre, casual players locked out of content... Now with the awesome story modes (easy mode in other game) everyone can see it, there is no point to not reward the higher difficulties. It's almost a MUST to reward challenging modes because there exist story mode.

 

This is the first game where I see story OPs (easy mode raid) not filling up quickly let alone at all - why??! because of what I said and first page. How an international company can not see that is out of my mind.

 

EA is a story mode developer, they did brilliant Kotor I and II and the story in SWTOR but they don't know anything about RPG feeling and MMO = massive multiplayer, not mindless meating <- There are enough games of that.

 

tl;dr of first page and mine:

Any developer with a brain knows they are intentionally bashing on organized group content, by simply removing the incentive to do a more difficult content over a very simple Veteran FP (or story OP)...other than the one time challenge.

Edited by HottesIce
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There's an old tale of the man who asks "Why do you climb that mountain?", and the answer is "because it's there".

 

Just the feeling of accomplishment for completing a hard mode OP should be reward enough - at least for the first few times. 😂

 

(I'm not sure if I've ever completed a hard mode OP)

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