Rping as morally grey Jedi or Sith

[Quekankwin]

Do you think being a morally grey Jedi is more interesting than a Sith one or the other way round?

 

I think i'm leaning towards Jedi guardians over Sith Juggernauts because of animations and armour. Sith also look too brutish too me.

 

But i like to see people's thoughts on the situation on what they think is more appealing to them? If they had to role play a morally grey person.

[sayNih]

Those who insist on going grey/green/eternal have cited Qui-Gon Jinn as an example. If you insist on rejecting the conflict in this story just so you can suck face with your companion, I would suggest rolling smuggler. But even that goes bad in KofFE.

[Oreget]

Nor dark nor light.

So you will do nothing?

Apathy is death.

[Sportiva]

If you are looking for RP, you may find it enjoyable ... but if you’re looking for the a “gray” experience from the BW story,, I don’t think you’ll find what you are looking for.

[Void_Singer]

Do you think being a morally grey Jedi is more interesting than a Sith one or the other way round?

 

I think i'm leaning towards Jedi guardians over Sith Juggernauts because of animations and armour. Sith also look too brutish too me.

 

But i like to see people's thoughts on the situation on what they think is more appealing to them? If they had to role play a morally grey person.

from a RP perspective, Anti-hero is always more interesting than hero or villain... so long as they don't fall into the same stereotypes as the other two.

 

From a game/story perspective.... you are not going to enjoy it much, because the game is built for extreme caricatures.

[JediQuaker]

Among my main characters, I have one Jedi that is purely LS, but the rest of them are all grey-ish. My Sith Marauder is dark 5 (I think), but she chooses the LS options often.

I have 22 characters in all, but only 5 or 6 that I would call main characters. Other than the LS Jedi and the DS Sith, the other main characters are basically "grey" - the basic idea is "if you try to kill my character, my character will kill you back", which usually ends up as light I or II.

[Sinhammer]

Every time the idea of 'gray Jedi' comes up someone comes along who's like 'omg there's no such thing'. Except for the fact that Disney gave us one in canon in the form of Kanan Jarrus. Morally ambiguous, followed the ways of the Jedi more or less, killed when needed, had a long-lasting relationship with Hera and even fathered a son with her by the end of the show. Yet that dude was arguably more a Jedi than Luke ever was as far as I'm concerned.

 

In short: this idea you either have to be so edgy and Dark that flowers wilt when you walk past them or so Light that you're basically a non-singing Disney princess with no middle ground in between needs to stop. It's just stupid at this point. We've had too much canon and EU material that says otherwise.

[Joluka]

Every time the idea of 'gray Jedi' comes up someone comes along who's like 'omg there's no such thing'. Except for the fact that Disney gave us one in canon in the form of Kanan Jarrus. Morally ambiguous, followed the ways of the Jedi more or less, killed when needed, had a long-lasting relationship with Hera and even fathered a son with her by the end of the show. Yet that dude was arguably more a Jedi than Luke ever was as far as I'm concerned.

 

In short: this idea you either have to be so edgy and Dark that flowers wilt when you walk past them or so Light that you're basically a non-singing Disney princess with no middle ground in between needs to stop. It's just stupid at this point. We've had too much canon and EU material that says otherwise.

 

You’re misunderstanding what it means to be a Grey Jedi. A Grey Jedi is one that uses both sides of the Force. Kanan Jarrus was a Jedi because he never used the Dark Side. The Bendu called him a Jedi Knight, and Maul a Sith Lord, then he referred to himself as “the one in the middle.” The Bendu was seen using Force Storm against Thrawn’s army, yet he taught Kanan how to let go of his fear to calm those spider creatures that wanted to kill him. The Bendu, if he ever allowed anyone to label him, would be what we call a Grey Jedi, but not Kanan.

 

Yes, all the things you listed that Kanan did were against the Jedi Code, but not against the Light Side of the Force. He fathered a child, but he never killed a child for his own benefit. He fell in love with Hera, but he did not manipulate her emotions to get his way. You said it yourself, he was more a Jedi than Luke because, despite him breaking the Jedi Code, he never allowed himself to believe that he was wrong for loving Hera. Thus, he did not fear his emotions, nor did he ever give in to his passions. He was never in danger of breaking the Jedi Code because he was at peace with himself when it came to what he felt for Hera, and that is one of the most Jedi things you can do. He did not allow what he felt to control him, not ever, and that is a trait of the Light Side of the Force, not the Dark. The Dark Side would’ve had him go berserk many, many times, given what he went through, but he didn’t m.

 

A lot of the same can be said of Ashoka. She left the Jedi Order, but she purified red Kyber crystals—in other words, she brought peace to them—using the Light Side of the Force. She’s never seen using the Dark Side of the Force, either. She doesn’t call herself a Jedi, but she’s not a wielder of both sides of the Force. She’s attuned to the Light. It’s not really about how you act, or the decisions you make, it’s about you drawing from both the Light and Dark Sides of the Force simultaneously—like Revan and the Bendu. The Bendu, by the way, as opposed to Kanan, did allow his emotions to control him and lash out with the Dark Side, which ended up getting him shot in the face.

 

This is why I think the concept of being a Grey Jedi is stupid. Being a Grey Jedi is NOT balance, as we saw with Revan, who was mega unstable. The Force in balance means everything is in the Light Side. Look at it this way, in a life cycle, there’s birth, nourishment, death, and so on, right? That’s balanced. If an outside force (I.e. the Dark Side) comes to tamper with that life cycle—imagine that this force kills the creature before it reaches its natural time to die, and this force doesn’t allow the earth to absorb the corpse’s nutrients—then the balance is corrupted. That is the nature of the Force, too. The Dark Side corrupts the Light, which is harmonious and natural. Without the Dark, everything would be perfect.

 

If you’re a so-called Grey Jedi, odds are that you’re tearing yourself apart because the Darkness is tugging one way, and the Light is trying to keep you whole—look at Revan. He f’d himself up by using both sides of the Force. Now, canon actually says you *can’t* use both sides of the Force. You can flip flop between one and the other, but you’re not dipping one foot in one side and the other in the other side at the same time, no—if you’re NOT fully into one side of the Force, you gonna get bodied by Rey in the woods because you’re not *just* out of balance, you’re also trying to fight your natural state of Light in order to use the Dark Side.

 

You would be murdering yourself, that’s why Vader says he “killed” Anakin Skywalker. That’s why Kylo Ren says he “killed” Ben Solo. Through the lens of the Force, that is exactly what Vader did. I won’t say anymore about our boy Ben ‘cause I don’t wanna get banned.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Joluka

[Monumenta]

No, Jedi are a certain thing and Sith are a particular other thing, if you want to rp as a neutral force user you should dream up your own new thing, whos to say there weren't all manor of mystic orders with strange powers hanging around counselling senators and ministers of the republic.

[RodneyMcNeely]

Joluka, you just articulated everything I was about to say, except you did it with a style and grace far beyond my own.

 

BEAUTIFULLY done!

[MadDutchman]

Another thing to note about Grey Jedi is to not get confused by going against the LS and going against the Jedi Code.

 

The Jedi philosophy is thoroughly corrupted frankly. They grew arrogant and controlling. They created so many rules to "protect" against the dark side that they inevitably forced people towards it by forcing them to deny their natures in he quest for some un-achievable state of "balance" (which they also redefined to suit their needs)

 

 

As for the question at hand, I personally prefer doing morally ambiguous Sith. Those who do what they need to do without being cruel. They do not spare enemies, nor do they kill innocents.

 

I find this works especially well with SI since you can throw in a lot of different historical emotional struggles into your head-canon (unlike the SW, they leave the SI backstory pretty open)

Edited December 23, 2019 by MadDutchman

[msbtbd]

This is why I think the concept of being a Grey Jedi is stupid. Being a Grey Jedi is NOT balance, as we saw with Revan, who was mega unstable. The Force in balance means everything is in the Light Side.

 

Actually, the Force in balance means equal light and equal dark. The voice of Kanan Jarrus himself, Freddie Prinze Jr., described it best when he said that if there is too much of the dark side in the galaxy, the Force will make sure to bring in more light (either through a person or someone/thing else) to balance things out and vice versa. The Force was balanced when the Father, Daughter, and the Son were alive. The Force was balanced when Anakin was able to tame the Light/Daughter and the Dark/Son at the same time. It became out of balance when the Son became power-hungry and the Daughter died. When the Son and Father eventually passed, the Force was still out of balance. There needs to be both light AND dark (yin and yang) for there to be balance. So yes, being a "Grey Jedi" is technically balanced. Too much light like the Jedi or too much dark like the Sith is unbalanced and both mentally and physically unhealthy. Not only do you need both but everyone, no matter who they are or where they come from, is born with both the light and dark side within them. Everyone is born with Force. Everyone is technically "grey" by default.

It is your choices that define the "side" that you're on. Also, being "grey" doesn't mean giving up morals. You can use the Dark Side to do good things and you can use the Light Side to do bad. The Force itself is ultimately a neutral entity (i.e. the Father).

 

Side note: Revan WAS "mega unstable" at a certain time. Then he became stable and a hero if we're looking at KOTOR. That being said, Ahsoka is the best example of a "grey Jedi". She used powers that were considered light and dark, didn't ignore her emotions, and didn't hunger for total control and power, all while fighting for the greater good, even after the Jedi/Republic turned on her. She is the epitome of a "grey Jedi", more so than Qui-Gon Jinn and Revan. And she wasn't "mega unstable" either and never abandoned her morals.

[MadDutchman]

Ahsoka is the best example of a "grey Jedi". She used powers that were considered light and dark,

 

Citation needed

[MWidowmaker]

not grey, pragmatic

[msbtbd]

Citation needed

 

^At 0:42, Ahsoka uses Force Choke, which is normally viewed as a "dark side" power, on a Trandoshan. Instead of killing the Trandoshan, however, she used the "dark side" to merely immobilize it.

She doesn't use the dark side often, (I'll admit, I thought she used it a bit more than she actually does. I confused her outwardly showing her emotions and sometimes her anger for using the dark side. How Jedi of me.) but when she does, she still uses it for good. This is why the Dark Side doesn't necessarily mean "evil" and why you can be a good person and a "Grey Jedi" all while using both sides of the Force.

I mean, hell, Ahsoka was using Force Choke before abandoning the Jedi Order. In Legends (and in the current canon?) Mace Windu frequently tapped into the dark side and even created the lightsaber form Vaapad, which had you using powerful emotions like anger in battle but not letting it consume you (like the "dark side" form Juyo, which is what Vaapad is based on). I guess you could also call Mace Windu a bit of a "Grey Jedi" if we're only defining "Grey Jedi" by the powers you use (I personally think it goes a bit deeper than just powers).

[msbtbd]

not grey, pragmatic

 

Yes, that is more accurate than just "grey". "Pragmatic" is probably the best way to describe what being a "Grey Jedi" is like/should be.

[MadDutchman]

^At 0:42, Ahsoka uses Force Choke, which is normally viewed as a "dark side" power, on a Trandoshan. Instead of killing the Trandoshan, however, she used the "dark side" to merely immobilize it.

She doesn't use the dark side often, (I'll admit, I thought she used it a bit more than she actually does. I confused her outwardly showing her emotions and sometimes her anger for using the dark side. How Jedi of me.) but when she does, she still uses it for good. This is why the Dark Side doesn't necessarily mean "evil" and why you can be a good person and a "Grey Jedi" all while using both sides of the Force.

I mean, hell, Ahsoka was using Force Choke before abandoning the Jedi Order. In Legends (and in the current canon?) Mace Windu frequently tapped into the dark side and even created the lightsaber form Vaapad, which had you using powerful emotions like anger in battle but not letting it consume you (like the "dark side" form Juyo, which is what Vaapad is based on). I guess you could also call Mace Windu a bit of a "Grey Jedi" if we're only defining "Grey Jedi" by the powers you use (I personally think it goes a bit deeper than just powers).

 

Force Choke is just applied telekinesis, which is neither light nor dark. I think you are correct, powers don't mean too much on their own.

 

Where I think the problem comes in is the Jedi's warped definition of what the dark side and light side are. They equate strong emotions and passions with the dark side, which does not hold up to what we see in the lore.

 

If we take the "definitive" examples of light and dark we use the Daughter and Son. The Son wasn't dark because of his passions, he was dark because of his selfish nature, his cruelty and his desire for power, no matter the cost. Conversely, it was the Daughter's selflessness and willingness to sacrifice herself for the greater good that characterized her.

 

Put another way, the dark side is the Force when the ends justify the means.

 

The Jedi also seem to have this view that LS = good, DS = evil. While I'd say it's fair that a DS FU is going to be more inclined towards evil, a LS FU can still commit horrific evil in the service of the "greater good" (like using a slave army to fight a war)

[ZeroTypeR]

Why do I have to explain why my Jedi's and Sith's are Grey? Do YOU have to explain why your characters are Dark or Light?

 

Here you go:

 

There is no preference given to which faction I'm playing.

 

- Both my Jedi's and Sith's focus on balance, and freely use both sides of the force (Head Cannon).

- Being Grey, for them, is a constant struggle between Light and Dark tendencies (much like real life).

- They will make Dark, Light, or Grey choices, pending on the situation.

- They take the action with the best possible outcome towards saving lives, but will not hesitate to kill a few to save many more.

- They will not hesitate kill you if you try to kill them, but outside of that, they will never bring harm to you, unless you try to harm someone dear to them.

- They will kill when ordered, or spare if needed, pending on the situation.

- They will not hesitate to form a temporary truce with an enemy to battle a common foe, and will honor the truce until they part company.

- Their end game, peace between the factions.

 

Just to name a few things.

Edited December 23, 2019 by ZeroTypeR

[irrevelant]

Cuttently doing JK storyline. Using the fight for dark/light side switch to keep it officially neutral. My choices are more like based on Ashara from the inquisitor storyline. The Empire must be defeated. NO MATTER THE COST. No problem with killing, torturing, ignore the death of civilians, or approving unethical tactics. As long as they work toward the ultimate goal.

 

But he is not wholy evil. Those who surrender on their own, or if there is a chance of turning them, then take it. A sith who turns into a jedi is better for the war effort, than a dead one.

[Tsillah]

Nor dark nor light.

So you will do nothing?

Apathy is death.

Not being "either...or..." doesn't make you apathetic and doesn't mean you'll do nothing...it just means you make different choices depending on the situation and on merit rather than ideals or conviction. It adapts to the situation.

 

Being fully light or dark can be fun to play at times but the lack of nuance also very much makes them a caricature rather than a character.

[allexj]

A morally grey Jedi is a dark side Jedi. I play this kind of Jedi. A morally gray Jedi would scrafice a planet to save a sector. A morally grey Jedi would kill a threat to galactic peace even if they were innocent Currently.

[adormitul]

Seems to me an morally grey jedi are loyal to the republic and will do what its best for the republic while morally grey sith do the same for the empire.

[DropbearSW]

The Force in balance means everything is in the Light Side. Look at it this way, in a life cycle, there’s birth, nourishment, death, and so on, right? That’s balanced. If an outside force (I.e. the Dark Side) comes to tamper with that life cycle—imagine that this force kills the creature before it reaches its natural time to die, and this force doesn’t allow the earth to absorb the corpse’s nutrients—then the balance is corrupted. That is the nature of the Force, too. The Dark Side corrupts the Light, which is harmonious and natural. Without the Dark, everything would be perfect.

 

This is pretty but it's certainly not Star Wars... The "balance" in the force is equal prominence of Light Side and Dark Side. The force is out of balance when one side has total power over the others.

[jedimasterjac]

How do you have a morally grey Jedi? They have their own strict moral code.

[jedimasterjac]

This is pretty but it's certainly not Star Wars... The "balance" in the force is equal prominence of Light Side and Dark Side. The force is out of balance when one side has total power over the others.

 

That's simply not true. The Light Side is natural, the Dark Side is a corruption of nature.

 

Balance is not equality between Light and Dark.