5 Hour Slicing Results

[TapVallian]

I am a fellow slicer, and I can certainly agree that slicing was too good in the first iteration. However, it has been nerfed so hard now that I rarely even break even, let alone make money from a profession that gives me nothing besides money. It *needs* to at least provide more than you put into it, otherwise it's just a waste of a profession slot. Have missions *always* provide slightly more than you put in (like 10%), and a chance to crit for a decent return. Blam, its viable, but not providing huge sums to people in a very small timeframe.

 

THIS is the reasonable solution.

 

Its not a crafting profession where you pay money to level up so you then can craft items to make money.

 

Its a gathering profession who's only items are augments (that at this time are nearly worthless and constitute an even bigger loss than the lock box missions) and credits.

 

You should never get less than the cost of sending out the companion on the mission. Making a small amount each time with the chance of a crit for a decent payout sometimes seems reasonable.

 

Right now its pointless to even send out the companions.

[Repefe]

How do you know that they didn't listen to you?

 

just because they decided to do it anyway? thats a pretty immature way of seeing things...."because I didn't get it my way they obviously weren't listening to me."

 

What if they listened, and didn't agree with you? seems like that's just as plausible (or more so) then the whole Bio hates us and listens to whiners theory.

 

Thing is in it's current state for anyone but manual gatherers, slicing is the worst skill to pick. I feel like they should explain why the nerf and why so much. Playing dead is never a good strategy when dealing with customer.

[WakeZero]

Have be careful about it though. People said that in RIFT during the first month, look at what happened. The simple fact is that single player games are advancing far faster than mmos. I took a break from Skyrim to play this, and I thought surely I wouldn't ever play it again. I was wrong, though.

 

I applaud the idea that people are willing to put their money where their mouth is. If someone disagrees with the direction a company is heading then let them stand firm and not give that company money. You can check my join date on these forums, oct 08. I've been waiting on this game for longer than that actually. That said, I'm holding out to see if things will change. If there are big nerfs with that first big patch I will simply cut my losses and chalk it up to another lesson learned. I think you, and Bioware, underestimate how resolute some people are in their ideas. I put years into WoW, then I said hey if they nerf again like this I'm out. Wasn't even my class or anything, it was the direction they were heading. They did, and I quit. I bought my CE of RIFT. Played it, enjoyed it but then they started the nerf/buff cycle. I said I wouldn't play through it again, and when they announced another cycle I unsubbed. I will do the same here. Of course I'm still around, and I honestly hope that Bioware will be different. I hope that they will go "o.k., we nerfed this but from now on we are putting real effort into the game. If something is broken we will figure out the core reason why and address that not just cave in to forum QQ." Do I think that will happen? No, I honestly don't. The slicing issue was their first big test, and they failed. Do I hope it will happen, YES. That would be great.

 

edit:

 

Trying to put down on people, or guilt them into not leaving a game just shows that you also see the problem as well. The poster above basically said "It's alright for them to do this, because other games do" You should understand there are people that didn't play MMOs, or had given them up, but came back because it was Bioware. Putting your faith in a company only to see the truth of it leaves a very bitter taste in your mouth. Instead of people trying to berate the OP, you guys should congratulate him on having the balls to stand up for what he believes in. That is a rare quality in this day.

 

Well said. Ironically, I have played many MMOs, and even MUDs before that... so the flamers prove once again how ignorant they really are.

 

My personal experience is that knee-jerk nerfing and then buffing is never healthy for a game. It leaves your player base angry and fragmented over the issue (case in point here) and makes them question whether the plan laid out by the developers is actually a good one.

[Mechaet]

Im just...

 

...really?

 

have you guys played other MMO's before? If this is enough to upset you, then I'm glad you haven't tried other MMO's, they'd decimate you with the level of nerfs constantly going on.

Eve Online, 7 years (almost 8). Un-subbed twice: once when they mega-nerfed lasers, and again when they completely borked null-sec.

 

WOW, 2 years.

 

DAOC for nearly 5 years. That was actually the MMO that got me seriously tired of nerf/buff cycles.

 

EQ/EQ2 on and off, probably a total of 2 years.

 

Earth and Beyond from day one until they shut off the servers.

 

Games I played but didn't stick around in (<6mo)

SWG

Second Life

UO

APB

DCU

 

I could probably list 2 or 3 more I'm forgetting right now (it's 2:30am here), but I think it gives you a good picture that I'm not the idiot you're implying I am.

and in all honesty...It's only a general opinion (held by mostly those who are cranky about the nerf), that Bio didn't listen to both sides.

 

How do you know that they didn't listen to you?

Because they never put out a statement as to WHY the nerf was so drastic. They didn't listen to the pro-slicing side, OBVIOUSLY, because slicing is nerfed far beyond what would have been practical.

 

But, again, this isn't about slicing. It's about the beginning of the game being opened with a huge nerf like this. 70% is a number you rarely see in MMORPG balance adjustments, which means that either Slicing was a fountain of platinum and diamonds (not really), or someone in their haste to "fix the problem" made too drastic of a change which will have to be rolled back slightly at some point, starting a nerf/buff cycle. I've played in far too many MMOs that go through those cycles, I don't have the patience or the spreadsheet stamina to sit there and recalculate my returns every patch cycle.

 

I speak for myself unless someone out there pipes up and agrees with me, but the over-nerfing is what is driving MY un-sub, not that they nerfed slicing. Trust me, I was reading the forums and doing the math and agreed that slicing needed nerfed, but this is way way too far in the opposite direction, and now they've started a pendulum swinging which I have zero faith in their ability to compensate for. Meaning the various mission/scavenging skills will be in flux for a while, the market is going to be FUBAR for the next few months, and essentially every crafter out there just got screwed whether they know it or not.

just because they decided to do it anyway? thats a pretty immature way of seeing things...."because I didn't get it my way they obviously weren't listening to me."

 

What if they listened, and didn't agree with you? seems like that's just as plausible (or more so) then the whole Bio hates us and listens to whiners theory.

I guess we'll never know since they repeatedly threw away EVERY chance they had at opening a dialogue on it. That's the other thing that got me to un-sub: the lack of communication. Treating your paying customers like mushrooms is fatally stupid in this market; I hope BW figures that out sooner rather than later because I'd LOVE to be a player here, but I'm not paying for an extended beta cycle. And certainly not to a company that figures the way to inform players of a balance change is to put it in the changelog, AFTER the change has already been made. A balance shift of that magnitude should have at LEAST had some sort of dev communique about why they were shifting the balance so far and what the reasoning was for such a big move so soon into the game's lifecycle.

[Unaki]

I am also un-subbing due to the nerfing policies. If all it's going to take is a bunch of people whining on the forums to make BW nerf something to oblivion, then my uber-FL-spec Sith Sorceror is going to be on that list soon enough. And I've worked pretty hard at leveling him up and assigning the points exactly where I need them. Much like the slicers have leveled their slicing skills up to not have to deal with crafting to make money.

 

WZ said it once, I'll re-iterate: I'm not un-subbing because of slicing being useless, I'm un-subbing because BW doesn't bother to hear both sides of a nerf request before shattering whatever it is with an overgrown nerf bat. As people get better at playing their classes, it is inevitable that one of the classes will be deemed OP and then nerfed into uselessness. So all of that time and effort that people went through to level up that class correctly will, at the click of a patch button, be magically gone...and the user is back to square one.

 

They dont look at just the forums buddy. You forget they have this thing called computers and you forget they have these people called programmers. They look at raw data, not what people are saying. Grow out of middle school, get a degree in any sort of tech field then come back and whine. Good riddance.

 

Do you people seriously not understand WHY it was nerfed? Do you not see the people running around owning every single skill, all max crafting and gathering and every mount and pet available with 5+ million credits sitting on their person? That is why it was nerfed. You aren't supposed to earn money that damned fast.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Unaki

[Biellsa]

The credits gain from lv50 will inflate the AH price. Even lv 30 questing will net you tons of money and better than running slicing at 400 which were design for lv 40+. The only thing that makes it bad is you can get a low lv toons and bring its slicing skill to 400. Thats why ppl suggest to add lvl requirement. The money from slicing was suppose to help them use the credits to buy gear / mats cost they sacrifice one of the gathering/mission skill to pickup slicing.

 

The 60-70% nerf that has been talked about would still have netted friends best part of a mil by now if itt had been implemented from day 1 which is still stupid amounts more than a non slicer could have possibly earnt in the same time frame though, unless every single crafted item sold which just doesnt happen.

[Mechaet]

They dont look at just the forums buddy. You forget they have this thing called computers and you forget they have these people called programmers. They look at raw data, not what people are saying. Grow out of middle school, get a degree in any sort of tech field then come back and whine. Good riddance.

Those people they call programmers didn't analyze the numbers correctly.

 

I'm 34, a double-doctorate in computer science and mathematical theory, and I work at Microsoft. Yes, really. Yes, seriously.

 

What's with the trolls and their ASSumptions?

Do you people seriously not understand WHY it was nerfed? Do you not see the people running around owning every single skill, all max crafting and gathering and every mount and pet available with 5+ million credits sitting on their person? That is why it was nerfed. You aren't supposed to earn money that damned fast.

And for the 3rd time now. I'm not quitting over slicing. I AGREE SLICING NEEDED NERFED. I'm disagreeing with the severity with which they nerfed it with NO player communication beforehand. And I'm standing on my disagreement by withholding my money. Simple, simple. Perhaps too simple.

[Elyx]

edit:

 

Trying to put down on people, or guilt them into not leaving a game just shows that you also see the problem as well. The poster above basically said "It's alright for them to do this, because other games do" You should understand there are people that didn't play MMOs, or had given them up, but came back because it was Bioware. Putting your faith in a company only to see the truth of it leaves a very bitter taste in your mouth. Instead of people trying to berate the OP, you guys should congratulate him on having the balls to stand up for what he believes in. That is a rare quality in this day.

 

Well, I didn't really say that, though I could see why you could assume that depending on your opiions.

 

I'm not berating you nor the OP for making the decision to act on your beliefs. I've quit many an MMO before for my own reasons...I normally don't post a thread about it simply because I know that most companies respond to customer feedback more then thread postings.

 

A thread post is a personal feelgood...It impacts no one but the players. I respect his decision to quit, as I respect yours. But I think I simply don't see this in the same light you do.

 

It almost sounds like you and the OP put too much faith in an MMO company. i can see why you would...when i first heard that Bioware...the creators of my favorite game of all time (KotOR series) were making an MMO of the same genre, I almost jumped in place. But I've learned to take a critical eye to games, especially early on in development. it's far too easy to put them up on a pedestal.

 

i saw that happen with Warhammer, with LotRO, with Aion, with Rift...the list goes on. people who think that the next game is going to be "the game". it gets overhyped. then we get in...and they make changes. can't argue with your bitterness. Perhaps I've gotten hardened to it instead of being aware of the issues? I really just see myself as flexible.

 

not saying you or the OP are doing that...but that's the picture I got when i read your posts and his. is it a calculated response based on a solid trend? or an emotional reaction based on dissapointment? so far I've seen only this one example. If they continue to nerf everything in creation, then I will certainly agree with you. But what you see as a "trend" I see as a singular event, and adjustment to an aspect of the game that was out of balance, but not enough that they felt it necessary to nerf during the beta.

 

Perhaps you and I see it on different sides of the coin. But while you chose to drop the game, I chose to keep it. I certainly hope that proves that I have the balls to stand up for what I believe in.

 

And i don't believe I need an entire thread to prove my machismo either.

[Ayern]

BTW, can you lvel Biochem without diplomacy? is it possible?

 

Yes, quite possible.

[Donger]

They dont look at just the forums buddy. You forget they have this thing called computers and you forget they have these people called programmers. They look at raw data, not what people are saying. Grow out of middle school, get a degree in any sort of tech field then come back and whine. Good riddance.

 

Do you people seriously not understand WHY it was nerfed? Do you not see the people running around owning every single skill, all max crafting and gathering and every mount and pet available with 5+ million credits sitting on their person? That is why it was nerfed. You aren't supposed to earn money that damned fast.

 

Not a yellow post... nothing to see here. More of the same. Please move on.

 

L2read then come back with something that adds something new to the mix. No one here is saying it didn't need nerfed. People are saying it didn't need to be killed and then on top of that... what have got now 6k posts, 300k views, countless topics... and no yellows? That is what made me cancel my sub is the total lack of any input from the devs on the issue. My money, my time and it won't be spent on this game once my free month runs out. I'll toss it on the same shelf WAR and Rift have occupied.

[Elyx]

Not a yellow post... nothing to see here. More of the same. Please move on.

 

L2read then come back with something that adds something new to the mix. No one here is saying it didn't need nerfed. People are saying it didn't need to be killed and then on top of that... what have got now 6k posts, 300k views, countless topics... and no yellows? That is what made me cancel my sub is the total lack of any input from the devs on the issue. My money, my time and it won't be spent on this game once my free month runs out. I'll toss it on the same shelf WAR and Rift have occupied.

 

Now that is something I can at least support. no matter what the reason, even a simple yellow response (is it yellow in this game? so used to calling them blues...) would be appropriate. I may not agree with the pro-slicers, but I so think that Bio needs to communicate to the community.

 

No matter which side your on, this issue probably is the biggest topic these threads have seen...it almost boggles my mind the number of responses. On both side of the camp, mind you Pro-slicers don't get to use this as another excuse to push for a retraction of the change.

 

But communication at this point could help a great deal...

[Mechaet]

LOL just noticed a yellow post in the other thread and was like "Yeah, they finally got the message to come in and communicate!" and then saw a mod basically telling the folks in the thread what they could or could not discuss.

 

Sigh.

[Dafaq]

qq some more.. slicing is fine ... l2p anyone?!

[WakeZero]

Well, I didn't really say that, though I could see why you could assume that depending on your opiions.

 

I'm not berating you nor the OP for making the decision to act on your beliefs. I've quit many an MMO before for my own reasons...I normally don't post a thread about it simply because I know that most companies respond to customer feedback more then thread postings.

 

A thread post is a personal feelgood...It impacts no one but the players. I respect his decision to quit, as I respect yours. But I think I simply don't see this in the same light you do.

 

It almost sounds like you and the OP put too much faith in an MMO company. i can see why you would...when i first heard that Bioware...the creators of my favorite game of all time (KotOR series) were making an MMO of the same genre, I almost jumped in place. But I've learned to take a critical eye to games, especially early on in development. it's far too easy to put them up on a pedestal.

 

i saw that happen with Warhammer, with LotRO, with Aion, with Rift...the list goes on. people who think that the next game is going to be "the game". it gets overhyped. then we get in...and they make changes. can't argue with your bitterness. Perhaps I've gotten hardened to it instead of being aware of the issues? I really just see myself as flexible.

 

not saying you or the OP are doing that...but that's the picture I got when i read your posts and his. is it a calculated response based on a solid trend? or an emotional reaction based on dissapointment? so far I've seen only this one example. If they continue to nerf everything in creation, then I will certainly agree with you. But what you see as a "trend" I see as a singular event, and adjustment to an aspect of the game that was out of balance, but not enough that they felt it necessary to nerf during the beta.

 

Perhaps you and I see it on different sides of the coin. But while you chose to drop the game, I chose to keep it. I certainly hope that proves that I have the balls to stand up for what I believe in.

 

And i don't believe I need an entire thread to prove my machismo either.

 

Fair enough.

[WakeZero]

Now that is something I can at least support. no matter what the reason, even a simple yellow response (is it yellow in this game? so used to calling them blues...) would be appropriate. I may not agree with the pro-slicers, but I so think that Bio needs to communicate to the community.

 

No matter which side your on, this issue probably is the biggest topic these threads have seen...it almost boggles my mind the number of responses. On both side of the camp, mind you Pro-slicers don't get to use this as another excuse to push for a retraction of the change.

 

But communication at this point could help a great deal...

 

And that's the biggest complaint. Thanks for finding common ground.

[Unaki]

Now that is something I can at least support. no matter what the reason, even a simple yellow response (is it yellow in this game? so used to calling them blues...) would be appropriate. I may not agree with the pro-slicers, but I so think that Bio needs to communicate to the community.

 

No matter which side your on, this issue probably is the biggest topic these threads have seen...it almost boggles my mind the number of responses. On both side of the camp, mind you Pro-slicers don't get to use this as another excuse to push for a retraction of the change.

 

But communication at this point could help a great deal...

 

Good luck getting them to post a response other than "We appreciate your concern" because not even the other big MMO, whose name is apparently sacrilege has community managers telling people why they did it. If they feel they need to communicate an issue, they would do it via news post, just like pretty much every other popular MMO out there. No need to talk with whiny brats who are just going to bicker no matter what they would say.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Unaki

[Mechaet]

Good luck getting them to post a response other than "We appreciate your concern" because not even the other big MMO, whose name is apparently sacrilege has community managers telling people why they did it. If they feel they need to communicate an issue, they would do it via news post, just like pretty much every other popular MMO out there. No need to talk with whiny brats who are just going to bicker no matter what they would say.

And I un-subbed from that MMO too for pretty much the same reason I'm ditching this one.

 

Is it making sense yet?

[Unaki]

And I un-subbed from that MMO too for pretty much the same reason I'm ditching this one.

 

Is it making sense yet?

 

I really hope you find enjoyment in single player games then.

[Inatho]

My 2 cents.

 

I do slicing in 2 ways.

 

1) Send my companions on crew missions

2) While adventuring I slice everything I can find.

 

I have attempted to sell the mission discoveries etc I get from slicing but they don't sell that well. I only post things at the suggested price I never go above that. It may be the market is so whacked those prices are to high. I don't know.

 

I am still able to profit but not near as much as I was. I combine the profits from slicing, the selling of grey loot to vendors and what little I manage to sell on GTN. Its not great. If the prices of things like training for 1 sith ability wasn't over 9,000. That might help. Prices for everything is so high that my income makes it difficult for me to...

 

Train my Sith Abilities, Artifice recipes, Repair gear, purchase mods or new gear as old gear becomes outdated. I can only gear 1 companion and even that is behind.

 

Perhaps the issue isn't slicing but the cost of other things.

[Msbungle]

It is kind of stupid to have slicing missions that say they will bring you back a lockbox with credits and you lose credits. Sorry to all the people that think otherwise, but it is dumb.

 

Slicing missions were like "investing" to some degree. You put out some credits and you get back those credits plus a bit more. People were thinking it was thousands in just a matter of minutes and it was not. On the lower level slicing missions you may be lucky to get about a 20% return on your investment. I'm guessing it was the same.

 

If you sent your crew out on a mission in another skill and got nothing after the first few levels, you would say it was useless and broken. That is what is now happening with slicing.

[Elyx]

Perhaps the issue isn't slicing but the cost of other things.

 

I salute you.

 

It is kind of stupid to have slicing missions that say they will bring you back a lockbox with credits and you lose credits. Sorry to all the people that think otherwise, but it is dumb.

 

about as dumb as having a crafting skill where you send your companion on a mission, and what he brings back you can't even sell to recover half the cost of the mission.

 

...you know...like all the other gathering skills do.

 

peeps really got to get off this "I'm losing money nao" bandwagon. Its not a valid excuse, not when the other gathering skills are losing MORE on their yields of mats then slicing is.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elyx

[Gformutorila]

Well, I've been leveling Biochem with simply sending out my companions on Bioanalysis missions. I haven't lost any money doing so, I've broke even... the difference is, I've had access to reusable med packs and stims since I was able to craft them.

 

So although I'm doing better then slightly breaking even with Slicing, the catch is you get nothing for it like the other professions. It's now useless, ESPECIALLY if you take it because you don't want to craft like it was touted for.

 

if you look at what crafters can make and how much money it costs to level the skill the you will see that crafting makes almost no sence. You can by tha crafted items for less money on the GTN then it would take to gather the mats youreself.

 

Sending your crew out to gather mats costs a lot of money and GTN is cheaper.

[Caesaron]

To be honest I just see no point in this skill whatsoever, they might have well just removed it completely with the latest patch.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[WakeZero]

about as dumb as having a crafting skill where you send your companion on a mission, and what he brings back you can't even sell to recover half the cost of the mission.

 

...except you use those crafting resources to make armor, weapons, consumables, gadgets. Slicing doesn't make anything, and the only thing unique (augments) can't be used on anything, not even raid gear.

 

if you look at what crafters can make and how much money it costs to level the skill the you will see that crafting makes almost no sence. You can by tha crafted items for less money on the GTN then it would take to gather the mats youreself.

 

Sending your crew out to gather mats costs a lot of money and GTN is cheaper.

 

This is just false. I leveled Biochem completely from sending my companions out on missions to get the mats. Looking on the GTN, I would have to pay a lot more money to do so. The stuff I make with Biochem is actually useful too... unlike my Slicing skill at the moment.

[Kotli]

I salute you.

 

 

 

about as dumb as having a crafting skill where you send your companion on a mission, and what he brings back you can't even sell to recover half the cost of the mission.

 

...you know...like all the other gathering skills do.

 

peeps really got to get off this "I'm losing money nao" bandwagon. Its not a valid excuse, not when the other gathering skills are losing MORE on their yields of mats then slicing is.

 

Hmm hmm yes, but that more that the mats are under-priced IMO this is due to my second point.

 

Crafting is useless in this game, apart from Biochem, the only profession where all crafted stuff is better than drops/rewards (at lest that what I seen). Ok Purple stuff is better but by the time you can make it you already lvled up enough to make/use the next tier of gear (unless you get uber lucky with the RNG).

Edited December 30, 2011 by Kotli