Reverse the nerf on Sentinels and Sage Healers

[sdom]

I see a lot of arguing here which is amazing because the fact is, to anyone who actually has consistent experience on a sentinel / marauder, it now completely under-performs. The class has no versatility, (it can't not be a dps), the class can't heal the same way other stealth classes can, altogether many mara mains like myself are being let down here, and considering in ranked alone. across servers, 3000 seperate toons played in season 11, Bioware is truly letting a lot of players down with this patch.

 

Its not balanced in any way, and it sucks.

People might have contrary opinions, but they don't have any foundation in fact.

And lets not forget this thread was also about sage seer spec, which everyone seems to have avoided mentioning because the nerf has been so blatantly bad for the class, and there's little to no arguement that can be made to the contrary.

[sdom]

This kind of reasoning just doesn't hold up. So what was the point of playing madness sorc the previous two seasons when there were mercs and snipers? Again, just because ops and sins are better doesn't mean mara is unplayable. Maras deserve no sympathy.

 

What was wrong with madness sorc?

I played it against mercs and snipers. Your reasoning doesn't hold up.

[Seterade]

what doesnt hold up is you not recongizing that maras are in no better place than madness sorc which in your exact words is "whats wrong with x class" but maras are unplayable. ok.

 

you mained fotm, and now its no longer fotm. too bad. next time dont main a class thats fotm, main what you like to play and you wont come to the forums begging for dev buffs when they inevitably nerf you off the fotm. literaly every expansion, sometimes in between meta. this entire topic has a huge amount of gall asking for the old expansions fotm to be put back on it fotm status.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Seterade

[JediMasterAlex]

I see a lot of arguing here which is amazing because the fact is, to anyone who actually has consistent experience on a sentinel / marauder, it now completely under-performs.

 

lol. Just because it's no longer a fotm class doesn't mean it's under-performing. I don't know how many times myself and others have to say this.

 

What was wrong with madness sorc?

I played it against mercs and snipers. Your reasoning doesn't hold up.

what doesnt hold up is you not recongizing that maras are in no better place than madness sorc which in your exact words is "whats wrong with x class" but maras are unplayable. ok.

 

Exactly. I was a madness sorc main in seasons 10 and 11 with thousands of games played on it. Mara is in no worse a position now than madness sorc was in seasons 10 and 11. Some classes are just going to be average, or even below average. That's inevitable. Mara was fotm for over a year.

 

And, perhaps most importantly, maras are not bad right now. They are still going to be good in ranked.

 

I do have to say that the mara main tears are rather delicious at any rate. I'm not sure why, but that class really seems to attract the most delusional thinking (though this clearly doesn't apply to all mara mains).

Edited November 20, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Eastiano]

I do with my oper 7-9k dps but with 61 k crits thx to veiled strike+vs tactical while off healing my team mates and not being worried to be killed which mara can't (esp with obliterate tactical). On my dec sin i do 10 k dps with 60-70 k hits with mauls under all stacks from set bonus while mezzing enemy sorcs stoping them from free casting with mind maze, leg slash and WW and guarding my jugg saving him from death which mara can't do again. I don't play sorc but sorc pulls nice dps numbers while off healing his team mates which mara again can't do.

 

ONce again asking - why play mara? Dps lower, no heal, no serious mezz, no guard and taunt. Literally useless

 

Everything you said makes 0 sense, it’s ltp issue, also bad troll

[omaan]

I see a lot of arguing here which is amazing because the fact is, to anyone who actually has consistent experience on a sentinel / marauder, it now completely under-performs. The class has no versatility, (it can't not be a dps), the class can't heal the same way other stealth classes can, altogether many mara mains like myself are being let down here, and considering in ranked alone. across servers, 3000 seperate toons played in season 11, Bioware is truly letting a lot of players down with this patch.

 

Its not balanced in any way, and it sucks.

People might have contrary opinions, but they don't have any foundation in fact.

And lets not forget this thread was also about sage seer spec, which everyone seems to have avoided mentioning because the nerf has been so blatantly bad for the class, and there's little to no arguement that can be made to the contrary.

 

Both sterade and jedimaster aren't playing ranked on mara so they have no idea how bad it is compared to other specs. They testing maras in regs or on target dumny whic is not a viable test of performance. There is no doubt devs need either to nerf oper and sin to put them on same lvl with other classes or buff mara, merc, pt which are now useless compared to sin and oper.

[omaan]

lol. Just because it's no longer a fotm class doesn't mean it's under-performing. I don't know how many times myself and others have to say this.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. I was a madness sorc main in seasons 10 and 11 with thousands of games played on it. Mara is in no worse a position now than madness sorc was in seasons 10 and 11. Some classes are just going to be average, or even below average. That's inevitable. Mara was fotm for over a year.

 

And, perhaps most importantly, maras are not bad right now. They are still going to be good in ranked.

 

I do have to say that the mara main tears are rather delicious at any rate. I'm not sure why, but that class really seems to attract the most delusional thinking (though this clearly doesn't apply to all mara mains).

 

Every my argument about why mara is useless goes cross ur fingers while you type "UR DELUSIONAL MARA IS OK".

Re-read my arguments about health regen, guard, cc's, taunts, offheals and then return back. You can't ignore facts about comparing oper/sin/sorc and Mara

[Seterade]

Both sterade and jedimaster aren't playing ranked on mara so they have no idea how bad it is compared to other specs. They testing maras in regs or on target dumny whic is not a viable test of performance. There is no doubt devs need either to nerf oper and sin to put them on same lvl with other classes or buff mara, merc, pt which are now useless compared to sin and oper.

 

I gave you a 9k combat log of just solo ranked. but ok.

[bladech]

Every my argument about why mara is useless goes cross ur fingers while you type "UR DELUSIONAL MARA IS OK".

Re-read my arguments about health regen, guard, cc's, taunts, offheals and then return back. You can't ignore facts about comparing oper/sin/sorc and Mara

 

They are ignoring your arguments because they cant counter them. Now concentration sentinel damages even lower than lightning sorc which leads to a question: why would someone play sentinel? If lightning sorcerer has better damage, it is more tanky (due to all damage reduction it has ), it can pull out his low team mates during ranked games in extreme situations and offheal everyone which marauder cant/doesn't have it means marauder is helpless, not needed. In 5.x class lightning sorc had much less dps than marauder but it still had his pull/tanky dr/off heals which proved that in right hands this spec could be very strong (all top 3 sorcs/sages in solo ranked 11 season weren't healers, they were lightning/telekinetic sorcs/sages with huge ratings).

 

Maras No guard, no heals, no instant combat remove, less mezz/cc, no taunts were compensated with bigger dps and good mobility. Now at 6.x marauder dps is gone and mobility is also gone because without double camouflage marauder in ranked is the easiest target yet double camouflage tactical forces marauder to use predation not for mobility while chasing running enemy or helping team mate to escape but for resetting camouflage.

 

Overall, combat team screwed up with marauders at 6.x pretty hard. It is dead in ranked, no one will play it serious.

[bladech]

I gave you a 9k combat log of just solo ranked. but ok.

 

Omaan gave you 10k arsenal merc in solo ranked who didn't even had set bonus and amps. We both know that when your enemies are bad, playing squishy specs such logs means nothing. We are talking now about real ranked fights not the minority one when you queue on zero rated character, get better matchmaking because of it and making easy stats on dot sin. Besides, 9k dps? Dec. sins in solo ranked doing 9,5-10k now and with 62 k mauls, light sorcs does even more but with 30-35 k hits. 9k dps against squishy targets/bads when sin and oper do more is meh

[JediMasterAlex]

They are ignoring your arguments because they cant counter them.

 

No, I haven't ignored those arguments; they are simply irrelevant. No one disputes that ops and sins are better than maras right now. That's not the issue.

 

It is dead in ranked, no one will play it serious.

 

Once again, laughably delusional. Just because it's not fotm anymore doesn't mean it's dead. But some of you don't seem to get this basic concept. I guess some mara mains aren't satisfied unless their class is the undisputed best melee class in the game. Anything less means it's worthless lol

Edited November 20, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Spasi]

I am sick and tired of having idiots using "OH IT WAS A FOTM CLASS SO NOW THAT ITS WORSE YOU NEED TO TAKE IT :w_mad::w_mad: " .Not our fault you got f*cked by the class and you're too disabled to think of a way to counter it. Time to wake up. Mara/Sent NEVER WAS FOTM, at least not in 5.x. It was as fotm as for instance operative was, good but not the best. 5.10 fotm was MERC not sent/mara. By definition mara/sent couldn't be fotm due to mercs being so good. It was really good i am not disputing that, but calling it fotm is just pure and plain delusional. Now I don't agree with the argument that mara/sent are dogsh*t either. They are a lot worse but there are still specs/classes you can barely play and i can tell you that fury mara is very far away from unplayable. Does it need a buff? Yes, the class needs 1 more autocrit in its kit, that is excluding the Duxn set bonus or the tactical item. Is it sh*t now? Not even close. Are there insanely overpowered things ingame right now? Yes, meaning relatively balanced classes like mara/sent seem worse than they actually are. Also showing how you did 15k dps in 1 game of pvp means absolutely NOTHING. Pure damage never was the was to gauge how good a class is, especially one-offs. Time for everyone to wake up so that we can have a meaningful argument about the class. Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi

[JediMasterAlex]

Mara/Sent NEVER WAS FOTM, at least not in 5.x. It was as fotm as for instance operative was, good but not the best. 5.10 fotm was MERC not sent/mara.

 

There can be more than one fotm class. Merc and mara were both fotm in 5.x. No need to be in denial about it.

[Spasi]

There can be more than one fotm class. Merc and mara were both fotm in 5.x. No need to be in denial about it.

 

Fotm is the class everyone rerolls to.Now explain to me why you would reroll a mara/sent in 5.x considering merc was both easier, more impactful and directly countered mara....Besides just damage cant make a class fotm especially a melee class. The fact you saw so many is because, believe it or not, its a very popular class that many ppl like and play, including myself.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi

[JediMasterAlex]

Fotm is the class everyone rerolls to.Now explain to me why you would reroll a mara/sent in 5.x considering merc was both easier, more impactful and directly countered mara....Besides just damage cant make a class fotm especially a melee class. The fact you saw so many is because, believe it or not, its a very popular class that many ppl like and play, including myself.

 

Mara was as good as, or better than, merc in healer games and tank/healer games. Plenty of people specifically queued on maras when they knew healers were in queue as a result.

Edited November 20, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Spasi]

Mara was as good as, or better than, merc in healer games and tank/healer games. Plenty of people specifically queued on maras when they knew healers were in queue as a result.

 

Situational usefulness doesn't prove to me that a class is fotm. You know as well as i do that most ranked games were and still are 4v4 dps. Essentially you're telling me that it was good in group ranked aka the content noone ever does. Unlike you i can change my mind if you prove it to me that what you're saying is true. I am not the delusional one.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi

[JediMasterAlex]

Situational usefulness doesn't prove to me that a class is fotm. You know as well as i do that most ranked games were and still are 4v4 dps.

 

A majority are all dps, certainly, but I wouldn't call matches with healers in them "situational." Probably about 40% of ranked games are healer or tank/healer games. Also, maras were still only second to mercs in all dps games. Ops were close, but just didn't have the damage to make the kind of impact that maras did.

[Spasi]

A majority are all dps, certainly, but I wouldn't call matches with healers in them "situational." Probably about 40% of ranked games are healer or tank/healer games. Also, maras were still only second to mercs in all dps games. Ops were close, but just didn't have the damage to make the kind of impact that maras did.

 

So mara/sent was fotm 40% of the time, every time. I am not buying it. Maybe you're a healer main so you hate us that much. I can understand mara/sent looking like a broken class to healers in ranked. That doesnt mean it is though.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi
Grammatical error

[JediMasterAlex]

So mara/sent was fotm 40% of the time, every time. I am not buying it. Maybe you're a healer main so you hate us so much. I can understand mara/sent looking like a broken class to healers in ranked. That doesnt mean it is though.

 

Nope, I don't heal. Also, never said they were broken. They were simply the second best class in pvp throughout 5.0. Now, maybe they're the fifth or sixth best class in pvp.

Edited November 20, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Spasi]

Nope, I don't heal. Also, never said they were broken. They were simply the second best class in pvp throughout 5.0. Now, maybe they're the fifth or sixth best class in pvp.

 

While i agree that mara/sent were a bit too over tuned in 5.x , i don't think that they were strong enough to be called fotm. The class is not easy. Also you have not given me reason enough to prefer it over merc. Because say you have 2 strong things and one is only as good as the other one 40% of the time and moderately harder to play. Why put the same label of strength on both? I do understand where you're coming from calling sent/mara fotm 5.x but it may be the case that your definition is too broad. Is it fair calling it fotm only because it was slightly better than most? Anyway calling ppl fotm players just because they feel like their class is weaker than it should be isn't fair.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi

[JediMasterAlex]

While i agree that mara/sent were a bit too over tuned in 5.x , i don't think that they were strong enough to be called fotm. The class is not easy. Also you have not given me reason enough to prefer it over merc. Because say you have 2 strong things and one is only as good as the other one 40% of the time and moderately harder to play. Why put the same label of strength on both? I do understand where you're coming from calling sent/mara fotm 5.x but it may be the case that your definition is too broad. Is it fair calling it fotm only because it was slightly better than most? Anyway calling ppl fotm players just because they feel like their class is weaker than it should be isn't fair.

 

Well, you're just quibbling over the definition of "fotm." I suppose it doesn't have one strict meaning. Every time I said maras are fotm, you can replace fotm with "second best pvp class" and the meaning of my statements will otherwise be unchanged.

 

Also, I never called any players "fotm players." I've only talked about fotm classes. And regardless of someone's reasons for playing it, the fact is mara was very good in pvp throughout the last expansion. Now they're average. That's about it. Most of the complaints boil down to mara being worse than ops and sins. Well, everything is worse than ops and sins. Something has to be on top. Last time it was mercs and maras, this time it's not.

Edited November 20, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Spasi]

Well, you're just quibbling over the definition of "fotm." I suppose it doesn't have one strict meaning. Every time I said maras are fotm, you can replace fotm with "second best pvp class" and the meaning of my statements will otherwise be unchanged.

 

Also, I never called any players "fotm players." I've only talked about fotm classes. And regardless of someone's reasons for playing it, the fact is mara was very good in pvp throughout the last expansion. Now they're average. That's about it. Most of the complaints boil down to mara being worse than ops and sins. Well, everything is worse than ops and sins. Something has to be on top. Last time it was mercs and maras, this time it's not.

 

The issue is they are actually bellow average this expansion.More than half the classes ingame are better than mara/sent atm. You need to understand the reason ppl aren't happy is not because they want mara/sent back at the number 2 spot, it's because they are way lower than they should be for a dps only class. Merc is better, sorc is better, sniper is better and then there is oper and sins that are better than all of those.The only classes that mara is better than atm are jugg and PT. There is also an argument for PTs being better than mara/sent due to its massive burst. I see that as quite a bit below avarage.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spasi
Grammatical error

[Josewales]

Carnage has good sustainable dps. The no fix on burst, then maybe a tactical similar to Overwhelming offense, where they are immune to cc as long as they are beating on someone? I find carnage more for hard swap support and easily CC’d in long solo fights.

 

I still love carnage when it comes to mayhem and unpredictable regs. I am topping boards with 40 to 55k punches. As long the feet are moving!

[JediMasterAlex]

The issue is they are actually bellow average this expansion.More than half the classes ingame are better than mara/sent atm. You need to understand the reason ppl aren't happy is not because they want mara/sent back at the number 2 spot, it's because they are way lower than they should be for a dps only class. Merc is better, sorc is better, sniper is better and then there is oper and sins that are better than all of those.The only classes that mara is better than atm are jugg and PT. There is also an argument for PTs being better than mara/sent due to its massive burst. I see that as quite a bit below avarage.

 

OK, say it's below average...and? Why can't maras be below average? Just because they lack some of the "utility" that other classes have? We're already taking all of those things into account when we rank classes. And last I checked, maras still have pred, a group cc, obfuscate, multiple gap closers, stealth out and heal to full. Madness sorc was below average in season 10 and 11, yet I still played it successfully and had fun. Maras will be fine.

[Spasi]

OK, say it's below average...and? Why can't maras be below average? Just because they lack some of the "utility" that other classes have? We're already taking all of those things into account when we rank classes. And last I checked, maras still have pred, a group cc, obfuscate, multiple gap closers, stealth out and heal to full. Madness sorc was below average in season 10 and 11, yet I still played it successfully and had fun. Maras will be fine.

 

Don't talk about specific specs cause carnage mara is one of the worst things to play in pvp right now if not the worst.If the best a class has to offer is a sub-par dps spec, dont you think that class deserves a little buff?Sorcs could always heal, sins could always tank, PTs could always tank.Marauders have nothing besides somewhat decent CCs, subpar damage, good mobility and the 1 in 3 chance to actually manage to stealth out and heal if the game doesnt decide to randomly keep you in combat for half the round. I think you just have a hateboner for marauders.