Onslaught - The Choice At The Ending

[Darth-Obvious]

At the end I can still chose how to do said mission

 

No, you can't. The missions have a pre-set design, a pre-set path, & a pre-set story you have to follow.

 

It's not a game like Alpha Protocol that gives you some amount of freedom in those areas, ie stealth approach, guns blazing approach, diplomatic approach, different handlers/missions givers you can work with, etc.

 

If you're playing as a Bounty Hunter you have no option to play the Alliance missions from a stealth approach. You have no choice in saying that you'd like to have a batallion of soldiers at your side or that you should focus those troops at another area of the battlfield to cause a distraction or whatever.

 

and many of said mission you can suggest said mission and what to do before Lana and/or Theron suggest or tell what to do giving you agency, or at least the pretense of it.

 

Just because the game offers you dialogue choices doesn't mean you actually have choices. You are still shackled to a large number of things.

 

None of KOTFE feels like you are dictating the story, but that rather you are being dragged/pulled through the story.

 

Under the empire eve that agency ore pretense of it is gone you can not suggest what to do next like you could in the previous missions you just follow what the empress/emperor said.

 

Not true. The dialogue in KOTFE isn't written any differently than the rest of the game.

 

Option 1 - Agree with what is being said (Polite Response)

Option 2 - Ask a question or make a joke (Inquisitive/Joke Response)

Option 3 - Disagree with what is being said (Negative Response)

 

^99% of the time the game's dialogue/choices are structured/written that way & the Alliance stuff is no different. You're blind or being woefully ignorant if you think/believe otherwise.

 

All KOTFE or The Alliance did was change the set dressing. You just swapped one faction & group of people telling you what to do for another.

 

Putting the player characters in a position of leadership in video games is oftentimes a terrible narrative choice because it never feels like you're actually in any position or power or the one actually making choices. On top of that once in that position of power it makes little to no sense for you to constantly be out on the front lines or for you to be doing all the grunt work.

[adormitul]

I do not think you get it you can suggest the mission like you say lets do that before its said by anyone else you will still have to do it no matter if you suggest it but you have the choice to be formulator of the mission. Of course you can not do it any other way but how the mission is designed in its limited fashion but you unlike in content before and after KOTET and KOTFE you at least have the option to formulate the mission if not Lana or Theron or whoever will do it in you stead. That is what I mean with at least you have the pretense of agency.

 

Also about being an leader and doing the grunt work is it not what the sith inquisitor does? At least as the alliance commander he has nobody above him.

[Darth-Obvious]

I do not think you get it you can suggest the mission like you say lets do that before its said by anyone else you will still have to do it no matter if you suggest it but you have the choice to be formulator of the mission.

 

No, there is no choice. No matter what dialogue choice you make as the Commander you still play the same mission. There is no formulating on your part. Lana & Theron are the ones that do all the setup, all the exposition, etc, etc. Your character is just the trigger to initate either the next bit of gameplay or exposition. That's how main/player characters tend to work in video games & why it's typically a bad idea putting them in positions of power/leadership.

 

Of course you can not do it any other way but how the mission is designed in its limited fashion but you unlike in content before and after KOTET and KOTFE you at least have the option to formulate the mission if not Lana or Theron or whoever will do it in you stead. That is what I mean with at least you have the pretense of agency.

 

No, you do not. Lana & Theron are basically the head of the alliance & they just ask your advice on how they should handle the situation & then you're sent off on that mission to do all the heavy lifting. That's not you being a leader, that's you occupying the exact same position you've always had since the start of the game.

 

They've really pulled the wool over your eyes if you honestly believe the design is any different than what has come before.

 

Also about being an leader and doing the grunt work is it not what the sith inquisitor does?

 

Yes, and again that is a problem with putting player characters in that position of power.

 

At least as the alliance commander he has nobody above him.

 

That doesn't mean they aren't shackled.

 

You seem to believe/think that just because they don't have somebody above them that suddenly means they aren't shackled, but that's the furthest thing from the truth, especially when the game & story plays out the same way it always has in terms of story progression, ie somebody tells you about something that needs to be done & you go do it. That is a shackle both within & outside the game's storytelling.

[Ylliarus]

No, there is no choice. No matter what dialogue choice you make as the Commander you still play the same mission. There is no formulating on your part. Lana & Theron are the ones that do all the setup, all the exposition, etc, etc. Your character is just the trigger to initate either the next bit of gameplay or exposition. That's how main/player characters tend to work in video games & why it's typically a bad idea putting them in positions of power/leadership.

 

 

 

No, you do not. Lana & Theron are basically the head of the alliance & they just ask your advice on how they should handle the situation & then you're sent off on that mission to do all the heavy lifting. That's not you being a leader, that's you occupying the exact same position you've always had since the start of the game.

 

They've really pulled the wool over your eyes if you honestly believe the design is any different than what has come before.

 

 

 

Yes, and again that is a problem with putting player characters in that position of power.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean they aren't shackled.

 

You seem to believe/think that just because they don't have somebody above them that suddenly means they aren't shackled, but that's the furthest thing from the truth, especially when the game & story plays out the same way it always has in terms of story progression, ie somebody tells you about something that needs to be done & you go do it. That is a shackle both within & outside the game's storytelling.

 

I very much agree with everything you say. I have always experienced KotFE and KotET as being the companion to Lana and Theron, those two being the true leaders of the Alliance while you're just the public face. Look at the story in those two expansions, you get little to no say in what the Alliance does and how it operates. Lana and Theron take care of all of that. The Commander feels more like figurehead that Lana and Theron use to do their stuff, so in a sense those two being the heads of the Alliance and the Commander being directly beneath them. It's why I don't understand it when people say "I finally feel my toons are free in the Alliance" which - from my point of view - exactly the opposite is the case. For example, in my opinion, the Sith Inquisitor has much more freedom in shaping themselves as a Dark Council member than when they're the Commander. The same goes for Sith Warriors, they have tons and tons more freedom to operate in the Sith Empire as leaders than when in the Alliance.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Ylliarus

[DuchessKristania]

I was quite pleased with that option as well. So far all of my characters have remained with the Alliance. My headcanon for them is long and detailed, but none of them would want to be forced back into their old factions. That could change down the road, but for now, I'm much more interested in remained the leader of a cooperative group from all walks of life.

[Ylliarus]

I was quite pleased with that option as well. So far all of my characters have remained with the Alliance. My headcanon for them is long and detailed, but none of them would want to be forced back into their old factions. That could change down the road, but for now, I'm much more interested in remained the leader of a cooperative group from all walks of life.

 

I get the headcanon thing, like in my mind, most of my characters remained super loyal to either the Empire or Republic and would do anything to help their original factions. Especially my character Ryssius, he is an Imperial diehard so, the Anathel killing was especially fitting as he had always considered that seat to be his

[adormitul]

No, there is no choice. No matter what dialogue choice you make as the Commander you still play the same mission. There is no formulating on your part. Lana & Theron are the ones that do all the setup, all the exposition, etc, etc. Your character is just the trigger to initate either the next bit of gameplay or exposition. That's how main/player characters tend to work in video games & why it's typically a bad idea putting them in positions of power/leadership.

 

 

 

No, you do not. Lana & Theron are basically the head of the alliance & they just ask your advice on how they should handle the situation & then you're sent off on that mission to do all the heavy lifting. That's not you being a leader, that's you occupying the exact same position you've always had since the start of the game.

 

They've really pulled the wool over your eyes if you honestly believe the design is any different than what has come before.

 

 

 

Yes, and again that is a problem with putting player characters in that position of power.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean they aren't shackled.

 

You seem to believe/think that just because they don't have somebody above them that suddenly means they aren't shackled, but that's the furthest thing from the truth, especially when the game & story plays out the same way it always has in terms of story progression, ie somebody tells you about something that needs to be done & you go do it. That is a shackle both within & outside the game's storytelling.

 

You know you make it sound that the alliance commander is the Queen of UK but then again fine let it be that way. Do you all wanna be the Queen of UK by still having the alliance? Or you wanna be the leader of the FBI or CIA or whatever who take orders from the president if you join the empire because that is what you are as part of the empire the director of the special forces of said empire not even that you are the field director of said forces.

 

Now another thing I noticed and I need explained how does the sith inquisitor has more freedom in shaping themselves as an dark councilor? After they become one they increase their power base but never use said power base. They make their fleet stronger and never use the fleet they have darth and lords under them but never use them. The title of Dark councilor is more of an waste on the inquisitor then as the alliance commander. At least then the power base he had was used.

 

Also when was the wrath an leader he does not have an army to lead besides his companion no fleet no subordinate sith besides 1 not more then 2 soldiers and 2 mercenaries. Leader of what was the wrath?

[Darth-Obvious]

You know you make it sound that the alliance commander is the Queen of UK but then again fine let it be that way. Do you all wanna be the Queen of UK by still having the alliance? Or you wanna be the leader of the FBI or CIA or whatever who take orders from the president if you join the empire because that is what you are as part of the empire the director of the special forces of said empire not even that you are the field director of said forces.

 

You're still taking orders from people as the Commander of the Alliance. There are constantly people telling you what needs to be done & you're running off to go do it. If you were truly the leader of the Alliance you would be staying back at the base commanding your forces where to go & what to do.

 

Now another thing I noticed and I need explained how does the sith inquisitor has more freedom in shaping themselves as an dark councilor? After they become one they increase their power base but never use said power base. They make their fleet stronger and never use the fleet they have darth and lords under them but never use them. The title of Dark councilor is more of an waste on the inquisitor then as the alliance commander. At least then the power base he had was used.

 

Nobody ever said anything about the Sith Inquisitor having more freedom.

 

What you keep failing to repeatedly understand is that putting the player in positions of power is almost always a bad narrative choice because said character still ends up doing all the grunt work, fetch quests, etc.

 

Putting the Sith Inquisitor in that position was just as bad of a narrative choice as making you the Commander of the Alliance. Actually nvm, the Alliance Commander is still worse because at least the Sith Inquisitor is it's own separate storyline instead of the single shared storyline that the Alliance Commander has.

 

Also when was the wrath an leader he does not have an army to lead besides his companion no fleet no subordinate sith besides 1 not more then 2 soldiers and 2 mercenaries. Leader of what was the wrath?

 

When did anybody mention the Wrath being a leader? Where are you pulling this stuff from? The Wrath wasn't written to be a leader, they were written to be an extension of power, a weapon of destruction. The Sith Warrior was written to convey the power fantasy of being Darth Vader, not a leader.

 

When classes were part of the factions they at least had identities. The Warrior was the Emperor's Wrath, the Knight was The Hero of Tython, the Bounty Hunter was the Grand Champion of The Great Hunt, etc. Once KOTFE & the Alliance came along that sense of identity was removed from our characters. Every class became the same person/individual. The end of Onslaught gives the player the opportunity to regain some of that identity/individualism by siding with your faction. The faction leaders reference specific names/titles from our class-specific stories that we haven't heard in years at this point.

 

The Commander/Outlander storyline works great/better if it had been the storyline for a 9th playable class. It doesn't work so great as an extension to the existing classes, especially since it's the same story regardless of what class you play.

[Trobon]

When classes were part of the factions they at least had identities. The Warrior was the Emperor's Wrath, the Knight was The Hero of Tython, the Bounty Hunter was the Grand Champion of The Great Hunt, etc. Once KOTFE & the Alliance came along that sense of identity was removed from our characters. Every class became the same person/individual. The end of Onslaught gives the player the opportunity to regain some of that identity/individualism by siding with your faction. The faction leaders reference specific names/titles from our class-specific stories that we haven't heard in years at this point.

 

The Commander/Outlander storyline works great/better if it had been the storyline for a 9th playable class. It doesn't work so great as an extension to the existing classes, especially since it's the same story regardless of what class you play.

 

You know what, I know this is off topic, but I'm tired of people acting like that is a KotFE/ET problem and not just the way things are with all the expansions. Other than factional differences in RotHC and Onslaught every storyline has been the same no matter what class you play. A Jedi Knight and a Smuggler both had to deal with the Hutt Cartel in the same way. A Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor both had to fight Revan. Other than one class specific quest on Rishi there has been 0 difference in the story since Makeb, so stop acting like that's all because of KotFE.

 

The problem with KotFE was that they didn't do a good job at sprinkling in class references. Not that they didn't do it at all (like some would have everyone believe), because playing through again right now I've had people call me Jedi and have referenced my specific Battlemaster status at least twice, but they didn't do it enough. It had nothing to do with the storyline not being divergent any longer.

 

What really gets me is how everyone points to SoR as being the best expansion, even though it was the first expansion to deal with the Emperor no matter what class you were or reason you had to do so, the first one to put you in charge of an alliance, no matter your previous background in leadership, and the first one that seemed to make more sense if you were force sensitive. If SoR is the best expansion and KotFE/ET was the worst for story then it seems like the issue isn't one storyline and more the fact that there was a smattering of class specific content in one.

[SerraShar]

You know what, I know this is off topic, but I'm tired of people acting like that is a KotFE/ET problem and not just the way things are with all the expansions. Other than factional differences in RotHC and Onslaught every storyline has been the same no matter what class you play. A Jedi Knight and a Smuggler both had to deal with the Hutt Cartel in the same way. A Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor both had to fight Revan. Other than one class specific quest on Rishi there has been 0 difference in the story since Makeb, so stop acting like that's all because of KotFE.

 

The problem with KotFE was that they didn't do a good job at sprinkling in class references. Not that they didn't do it at all (like some would have everyone believe), because playing through again right now I've had people call me Jedi and have referenced my specific Battlemaster status at least twice, but they didn't do it enough. It had nothing to do with the storyline not being divergent any longer.

 

What really gets me is how everyone points to SoR as being the best expansion, even though it was the first expansion to deal with the Emperor no matter what class you were or reason you had to do so, the first one to put you in charge of an alliance, no matter your previous background in leadership, and the first one that seemed to make more sense if you were force sensitive. If SoR is the best expansion and KotFE/ET was the worst for story then it seems like the issue isn't one storyline and more the fact that there was a smattering of class specific content in one.

 

That's true..

 

But SOR had variances in dialogues, that helped many when they run their ALT trough the story.

 

When I played Shadow of revan, I remember that crew (when you crash land) recognize My wrath . When I was playing as my Sorc, they recognized a dark council member .

 

Thats what was missing in Kotfe and Kotet, and from there on...we are stuck with this 'Commander'' nonsense . Which is what peoples asked beside the ''I wanna go home'' option.

 

Most games (at least the rpg ones) , you still do the same content . Like say in DAO, you still do Ostagart, Duncan still die..the king still die..but the ORIGINS of playing a Cousland or a city elves change the dialogues . And RPG are all about the dialogues , thats what give a VOICE to the player going trough the game again and again .

[Trobon]

That's true..

 

But SOR had variances in dialogues, that helped many when they run their ALT trough the story.

 

When I played Shadow of revan, I remember that crew (when you crash land) recognize My wrath . When I was playing as my Sorc, they recognized a dark council member .

 

Thats what was missing in Kotfe and Kotet, and from there on...we are stuck with this 'Commander'' nonsense . Which is what peoples asked beside the ''I wanna go home'' option.

 

Most games (at least the rpg ones) , you still do the same content . Like say in DAO, you still do Ostagart, Duncan still die..the king still die..but the ORIGINS of playing a Cousland or a city elves change the dialogues . And RPG are all about the dialogues , thats what give a VOICE to the player going trough the game again and again .

 

Right, as I say, they could have done a better job at recognizing your class in KotFE/ET for sure. I'm not saying those expansions were perfect in any way or that they couldn't have done better at making you feel unique. I'm just saying that's not about the story being different. Many people act like KotFE/ET funneled 8 classes into one story, but that's just as true with every other expansion (except in ROTHC and Onslaught its 4 classes into one story). It made just as little sense for your character to be forced into those situations in every expansion.

 

The 8 different story thing was only really in vanilla. You're example of DAO is one I've used before. It should be basically like DAO only we have a much longer origin. I think Onslaught is doing a pretty good job at bringing those origins back into the game some, but its always going to be one story.

[Darth-Obvious]

You know what, I know this is off topic, but I'm tired of people acting like that is a KotFE/ET problem and not just the way things are with all the expansions. Other than factional differences in RotHC and Onslaught every storyline has been the same no matter what class you play. A Jedi Knight and a Smuggler both had to deal with the Hutt Cartel in the same way. A Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor both had to fight Revan. Other than one class specific quest on Rishi there has been 0 difference in the story since Makeb, so stop acting like that's all because of KotFE.

 

The problem with KotFE was that they didn't do a good job at sprinkling in class references. Not that they didn't do it at all (like some would have everyone believe), because playing through again right now I've had people call me Jedi and have referenced my specific Battlemaster status at least twice, but they didn't do it enough. It had nothing to do with the storyline not being divergent any longer.

 

What really gets me is how everyone points to SoR as being the best expansion, even though it was the first expansion to deal with the Emperor no matter what class you were or reason you had to do so, the first one to put you in charge of an alliance, no matter your previous background in leadership, and the first one that seemed to make more sense if you were force sensitive. If SoR is the best expansion and KotFE/ET was the worst for story then it seems like the issue isn't one storyline and more the fact that there was a smattering of class-specific content in one.

 

No, KOTFE's problem wasn't that it didn't include enough class-specific references, it was that it's story frame-work was so specific whereas the previous expansions left some room for interpretation.

 

All of the force heavy content with KOTFE felt out of place with the non-Force classes, & a lot of the Alliance military stuff seemed at odds with the force classes. It was something that ultimately didn't work the entire way through no matter what class you were playing. They tried to split the difference with the Force content & the Alliance military content but it didn't end up working for anyone.

 

KOTFE's structure & storytelling left little to no room for any sense of roleplaying or headcannoning of the content.The previous expansions had enough vagueness to them that you could sort of fill in the blanks a little. That's not the case with KOTFE.

 

In the other expansions, you feel like a character going through a story. In KOTFE you feel like you are being pulled/dragged through a story.

 

Even though there were parts about SoR that I didn't like, it still felt like it fit with the non class specific stories that came before in both 2.0 & 1.0. KOTFE feels like too much of a departure from the existing SWTOR style & more more akin to something like Mass Effect than it did anything else.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Darth-Obvious

[OlBuzzard]

The majority of my characters are keeping their alliance which I am very grateful for. Only a few that it makes sense for will go back. I was very pleased with this option.

 

The devs have also listened in other areas as well such as including other alliance personnel where it makes sense, instead of just Lana and Theron. I am very happy with that too.

 

Now if they will also give vanilla LIs some content I will be a very happy gamer.

 

I'm keeping all of mine within the alliance … at least for now. IMO... I just like the independence. I do applaud BW for giving us a choice thus far ! That means a lot to me !

 

At some point in time it may make more sense to go back to the beginning (so to speak). But for now … no !

 

Besides I really didn't hate KotFE / ET that much . Yes there were some things about the original stories that I liked. but a lot of them I wasn't that thrilled over from a LS point of view (some of them were a little dull). I actually enjoyed some of the new companions better than the old ones I had. So for me.. aside from Kira there wasn't that much that I missed.

** The smuggler gets the opportunity of a lifetime.

** The commando dumps a corrupt, egotistical blah blah blah … General Garza and Sharesh

** JK / JC both find themselves thrust into dealing with the man behind the monster.

(just my thoughts) …

 

For whatever it's worth … the alliance will no doubt either be dissolved OR become an independent planet / world with our characters always have close ties to it … but stepping aside and allowing that new world to grow on it's own !

 

(again … just my take on all of it ! )

[adormitul]

You're still taking orders from people as the Commander of the Alliance. There are constantly people telling you what needs to be done & you're running off to go do it. If you were truly the leader of the Alliance you would be staying back at the base commanding your forces where to go & what to do.

 

 

 

Nobody ever said anything about the Sith Inquisitor having more freedom.

 

What you keep failing to repeatedly understand is that putting the player in positions of power is almost always a bad narrative choice because said character still ends up doing all the grunt work, fetch quests, etc.

 

Putting the Sith Inquisitor in that position was just as bad of a narrative choice as making you the Commander of the Alliance. Actually nvm, the Alliance Commander is still worse because at least the Sith Inquisitor is it's own separate storyline instead of the single shared storyline that the Alliance Commander has.

 

 

 

When did anybody mention the Wrath being a leader? Where are you pulling this stuff from? The Wrath wasn't written to be a leader, they were written to be an extension of power, a weapon of destruction. The Sith Warrior was written to convey the power fantasy of being Darth Vader, not a leader.

 

When classes were part of the factions they at least had identities. The Warrior was the Emperor's Wrath, the Knight was The Hero of Tython, the Bounty Hunter was the Grand Champion of The Great Hunt, etc. Once KOTFE & the Alliance came along that sense of identity was removed from our characters. Every class became the same person/individual. The end of Onslaught gives the player the opportunity to regain some of that identity/individualism by siding with your faction. The faction leaders reference specific names/titles from our class-specific stories that we haven't heard in years at this point.

 

The Commander/Outlander storyline works great/better if it had been the storyline for a 9th playable class. It doesn't work so great as an extension to the existing classes, especially since it's the same story regardless of what class you play.

Let me quote you something in this topic.

I very much agree with everything you say. I have always experienced KotFE and KotET as being the companion to Lana and Theron, those two being the true leaders of the Alliance while you're just the public face. Look at the story in those two expansions, you get little to no say in what the Alliance does and how it operates. Lana and Theron take care of all of that. The Commander feels more like figurehead that Lana and Theron use to do their stuff, so in a sense those two being the heads of the Alliance and the Commander being directly beneath them. It's why I don't understand it when people say "I finally feel my toons are free in the Alliance" which - from my point of view - exactly the opposite is the case. For example, in my opinion, the Sith Inquisitor has much more freedom in shaping themselves as a Dark Council member than when they're the Commander. The same goes for Sith Warriors, they have tons and tons more freedom to operate in the Sith Empire as leaders than when in the Alliance.

I answered this post for the inquisitor and wrath leadership I just did not quote it because I got lazy. The queen stuff was to you. But somebody did say it.

[abigfishy]

I agree that it is awesome to have a choice. Unlike most people here some of my toons will stay in the Alliance. My Bounty Hunter never wanted to be a slave of the Sith Empire and loves being independent. Great work Bioware! I finish with my Carthago delenda est - Please fix crafting.

[Darth-Obvious]

Let me quote you something in this topic.

 

I answered this post for the inquisitor and wrath leadership I just did not quote it because I got lazy. The queen stuff was to you. But somebody did say it.

 

Okay, but in the context of what that person is saying he's talking about the Sith Inquisitor & Sith Warrior having the freedom of individuality which is something they don't have as the Commander.

 

The Sith Inquisitor has a specific title depending on your alignment. Imperius (Light) Nox (Dark) Occulus (Neutral) if you return the Empire as a Light Side character they specifically refer to you as Darth Imperius at the end of Onslaught. If you are a Knight and return to the Republic you are once again the Jedi Battlemaster, the title given to Knights at the end of Shadow or Revan. All the classes return to a unique & specific status at the end of Onslaught if you re-align with your faction.

 

If you stay with the Alliance, you remain the Commander, & do so regardless of whatever class you're playing. There's no freedom or uniqueness or individuality in that. It's one singular role that classes share regardless of their background. That's not freedom, that's restriction. The only freedom you have is to choose to stay the Commander or return to your faction.

 

Having the 8 classes return to their former statuses provides greater story potential going forward than everybody sharing the exact same status.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Darth-Obvious

[adormitul]

Okay, but in the context of what that person is saying he's talking about the Sith Inquisitor & Sith Warrior having the freedom of individuality which is something they don't have as the Commander.

 

The Sith Inquisitor has a specific title depending on your alignment. Imperius (Light) Nox (Dark) Occulus (Neutral) if you return the Empire as a Light Side character they specifically refer to you as Darth Imperius at the end of Onslaught. If you are a Knight and return to the Republic you are once again the Jedi Battlemaster, the title given to Knights at the end of Shadow or Revan. All the classes return to a unique & specific status at the end of Onslaught if you re-align with your faction.

 

If you stay with the Alliance, you remain the Commander, & do so regardless of whatever class you're playing. There's no freedom or uniqueness or individuality in that. It's one singular role that classes share regardless of their background. That's not freedom, that's restriction. The only freedom you have is to choose to stay the Commander or return to your faction.

 

Having the 8 classes return to their former statuses provides greater story potential going forward than everybody sharing the exact same status.

 

You realize that its not gonna be done the potential I mean. Devs will not make an different story for the ones who joined the empire then the ones who did not and kept the alliance. Also they said they will not continue the class stories. So basically its just fluff even you joined the dark council or became the wrath again you will still do the same thing the BH or IA will do if they joined the empire or did not going forward.

[Ylliarus]

You realize that its not gonna be done the potential I mean. Devs will not make an different story for the ones who joined the empire then the ones who did not and kept the alliance. Also they said they will not continue the class stories. So basically its just fluff even you joined the dark council or became the wrath again you will still do the same thing the BH or IA will do if they joined the empire or did not going forward.

 

The distinction however, that I did join the Dark Council or became the Empire's Wrath, that restored my full enjoyment of SWTOR's story. I never wanted to be separated from my original faction, I never wanted to form the Alliance. And yet, I was forced to, our characters were forced to. When I started playing this game back in 2012, I played it to be a Jedi or Sith, Republic or Imperial. So while the return to your original faction may be mere fluff to you, to me it makes ALL the difference in my enjoyment of the story.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Ylliarus

[Estelindis]

So while the return to your original faction may be mere fluff to you, to me it makes ALL the difference in my enjoyment of the story.

Agreed. Seemingly small differences from one perspective are enormous from a different point of view. This one choice profoundly improves how I feel about a lot of my characters' stories.

[Ylliarus]

Agreed. Seemingly small differences from one perspective are enormous from a different point of view. This one choice profoundly improves how I feel about a lot of my characters' stories.

 

Exactly! I finally feel invested in their motivations and goals in the story again. KotFE and KotET were - to me - just a grey, formless blob that I went through to get to the new story content, but I absolutely felt no connection to my characters, which I had throughout all of the story up until the start of KotFE. Now I finally feel that I can immerse myself in the story, enjoy its narrative again.

[adormitul]

Exactly! I finally feel invested in their motivations and goals in the story again. KotFE and KotET were - to me - just a grey, formless blob that I went through to get to the new story content, but I absolutely felt no connection to my characters, which I had throughout all of the story up until the start of KotFE. Now I finally feel that I can immerse myself in the story, enjoy its narrative again.

When I started the sith warrior story my first character I thought it will be an power trip go to becoming the strongest sith ever or at least in the empire. Not only that did not happen at the end of the story in never happened in the further content until the end of KOTET and now Onslaught showed me that it might be true. So its all an matter of perspective I went with that goal in mind immersing myself with that and KOTFE and KOTET gave it to me not perfectly but it did. I did not chose the empire because lets be fair they have nothing to empower me anymore with while from an RP perspective the alliance still has that grey force being stronger the light or dark teaching. Far easier to learn from jedi when you are not totally under the empire.

[Ylliarus]

When I started the sith warrior story my first character I thought it will be an power trip go to becoming the strongest sith ever or at least in the empire. Not only that did not happen at the end of the story in never happened in the further content until the end of KOTET and now Onslaught showed me that it might be true. So its all an matter of perspective I went with that goal in mind immersing myself with that and KOTFE and KOTET gave it to me not perfectly but it did. I did not chose the empire because lets be fair they have nothing to empower me anymore with while from an RP perspective the alliance still has that grey force being stronger the light or dark teaching. Far easier to learn from jedi when you are not totally under the empire.

 

To each their own. I like to play my characters traditionally, Dark Side Sith Inquisitor, Light Side Consular, Dark Side Warrior, Light Side Knight. But that's also why I love and praise the devs' choice to include both the option to rejoin your original faction and to allow for those who want to, to remain independent as the Alliance. This way, they have catered to players from both corners and that's great! It allows each of us to create the Star Wars story that we want

[Darth-Obvious]

When I started the sith warrior story my first character I thought it will be an power trip go to becoming the strongest sith ever or at least in the empire.

 

Why would you think that would be the case? The Sith Warrior was modeled after Darth Vader who was never presented as being the most powerful force user even when there were so few force users left. He wasn't even the most powerful Sith when only 2 Sith existed.

 

The Sith Warrior becoming more powerful than the Emperor, the entire Dark Council, Malgus, etc, by the end of the vanilla story would have been ridiculous.

 

Dark Side Sith Inquisitor is extremely powerful by the end of Chapter 3, but due to the specific story reason of having force ghosts binded to themselves.

 

Not only that did not happen at the end of the story in never happened in the further content until the end of KOTET and now Onslaught showed me that it might be true.

 

It didn't happen in KOTFE/KOTET either, because you're never really playing as the Sith Warrior. You're The Outlander/Commander.

 

One thing you keep failing to realize is that KOTFE is basically an entirely new class story for an all new character, not an extension of the existing character stories.

 

So its all an matter of perspective I went with that goal in mind immersing myself with that and KOTFE and KOTET gave it to me not perfectly but it did.

 

You had a ridiculous expectation of the vanilla game's story though.

 

Note that you could start KOTFE as an entirely new character, something the game gives you the option of doing, & you would get that same KOTFE story regardless of what class you chose.

 

I did not chose the empire because lets be fair they have nothing to empower me anymore with while from an RP perspective the alliance still has that grey force being stronger the light or dark teaching. Far easier to learn from jedi when you are not totally under the empire.

 

Except Lana's conversation with Gnost-Dural in Onslaught shows this to not be the case. Based off what happened in Onslaught (on the Republic side) it's entirely possible that characters like Lana & Scourge could end of being part of the Jedi Order.

 

The Alliance will continue to remain a static thing, whereas parts of the Republic/Empire are in the process of being re-shaped or re-built & we're given the perception that our characters will be part of that. Even if it's all fluff, it's giving us a stronger connection to the storyline, and character-specific features than any part of the Alliance.

[Ylliarus]

Why would you think that would be the case? The Sith Warrior was modeled after Darth Vader who was never presented as being the most powerful force user even when there were so few force users left. He wasn't even the most powerful Sith when only 2 Sith existed.

 

The Sith Warrior becoming more powerful than the Emperor, the entire Dark Council, Malgus, etc, by the end of the vanilla story would have been ridiculous.

 

Dark Side Sith Inquisitor is extremely powerful by the end of Chapter 3, but due to the specific story reason of having force ghosts binded to themselves.

 

 

 

It didn't happen in KOTFE/KOTET either, because you're never really playing as the Sith Warrior. You're The Outlander/Commander.

 

One thing you keep failing to realize is that KOTFE is basically an entirely new class story for an all new character, not an extension of the existing character stories.

 

 

 

You had a ridiculous expectation of the vanilla game's story though.

 

Note that you could start KOTFE as an entirely new character, something the game gives you the option of doing, & you would get that same KOTFE story regardless of what class you chose.

 

 

 

Except Lana's conversation with Gnost-Dural in Onslaught shows this to not be the case. Based off what happened in Onslaught (on the Republic side) it's entirely possible that characters like Lana & Scourge could end of being part of the Jedi Order.

 

The Alliance will continue to remain a static thing, whereas parts of the Republic/Empire are in the process of being re-shaped or re-built & we're given the perception that our characters will be part of that. Even if it's all fluff, it's giving us a stronger connection to the storyline, and character-specific features than any part of the Alliance.

 

I very much agree with your analysis here. There's nothing to suggest we would become the most powerful being in the galaxy at the start of the vanilla story. And frankly, I wouldn't even want that to be the story, because being the most powerful Sith or Jedi or whatever is a very boring trope to follow.

 

And true, even in KotFE and KotET we don't become the strongest being in the galaxy, because frankly, we defeat Valkorion by happy coincidences. The first coincidence is that we stumble upon a gimmick that can destroy Valkorion (which, sadly, was really bad writing for its waaaay too convenient) and the second coincidence is, that at the same time that Valkorion's spirit was being destroyed, his original body of Tenebrae was also being annihilated by Scourge and Kira. That only shows that we didn't defeat Valkorion ourselves, instead we have had a lot of help from others to get to the point where we could destroy the Sith Emperor. So, we never were intended to be the most powerful being in the galaxy.

[adormitul]

I very much agree with your analysis here. There's nothing to suggest we would become the most powerful being in the galaxy at the start of the vanilla story. And frankly, I wouldn't even want that to be the story, because being the most powerful Sith or Jedi or whatever is a very boring trope to follow.

 

And true, even in KotFE and KotET we don't become the strongest being in the galaxy, because frankly, we defeat Valkorion by happy coincidences. The first coincidence is that we stumble upon a gimmick that can destroy Valkorion (which, sadly, was really bad writing for its waaaay too convenient) and the second coincidence is, that at the same time that Valkorion's spirit was being destroyed, his original body of Tenebrae was also being annihilated by Scourge and Kira. That only shows that we didn't defeat Valkorion ourselves, instead we have had a lot of help from others to get to the point where we could destroy the Sith Emperor. So, we never were intended to be the most powerful being in the galaxy.

 

When did the story not suggest that is what the warrior wanted to? The only reason we even listen to Darth Baras was because of that. When Darth Baras asked us to kill his master the reason he have us was that by killing him Baras will become more powerful and we will become more powerful as his apprentice which we did not because he betrayed us. Why do you all think we did the things we did?

Power was the reason for the warrior doing everything he did until chapter 3 after that revenge and then of course power again. Also Darth Maul and Darth Vader the 2 sith the warrior is made from more Darth Maul then Vader did not train and did everything they did to become the most powerful? I am pretty sure that was one of their reasons at least and of course fear and abuse to that. Is that not what the sith strive for?