You Can't Change Your Advanced Class!?!?!

[Anagnostis]

Class should be renamed to 'Archetype'

Advanced Class should be renamed to 'Class'

 

This will stop all the complaints about not being able to change advanced class.

[Lagerhat]

This is why my 50 Sith Warrior doesn't have an advanced class. It's a permanent choice, and I can't decide! AC's are a crutch anyways, right?

[malspeed]

The old school class system and talent tree makes me miss Rift. I hate the gerbil wheel such a static system creates when you want to try to full spectrum that a class allows.

[Ramayana]

Does WOW allow you to change from Hunter to Warlock? Both classes have pets, so why not?

 

Think of each specialization as its own class, with three unique talent tree's. It just so happens those two "classes" share some talents, but they are totally seperate. In that light SWTOR has eight "classes" not four because of the specialization.

 

FFS at least 2 people have used the same analogy, or similar.

 

READ FIRST THEN OPINE. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[Mrs_Murder]

1. It takes 2 hours to level to 10.

2. This game doesn't have 4 classes; it has 8. Simple.

[Vales]

Does WOW allow you to change from Hunter to Warlock? Both classes have pets, so why not?

 

Think of each specialization as its own class, with three unique talent tree's. It just so happens those two "classes" share some talents, but they are totally seperate. In that light SWTOR has eight "classes" not four because of the specialization.

 

For just 25 bucks, 45 if you change factions.

[MeanMartian]

The old school class system and talent tree makes me miss Rift. I hate the gerbil wheel such a static system creates when you want to try to full spectrum that a class allows.

 

Yeah, Rifts had a really flexible arrangement. It's unfortunate that the game didn't really have anything else to draw me in.

[Solmundr]

First of all, to everyone who jumped on bashing the guy: relax. He has a pretty legitimate complaint.

 

You are right in that the game tells you you can't change. Not 10 or 20 times like some people are saying, but a couple. Enough to say they definitely told you, but not enough that it isn't feasible that someone without brain damage could have missed it in his excitement to explore an awesome space place.

 

And him saying "x game did it better" doesn't make it ok to yell at him about changing from hunter to waradin or some such. Saying that a given game had a better system for handling classes and specs is not the same as saying you should be able to jump from any class to any other (which btw is something you CAN do in some MMO's) But when a class is presented to you as a whole (Jedi consular for example) it's not unreasonable to think you might get to explore all the aspects of that class.

 

The classes are not presented as 8 seperate identities, but as 4. Given that the AC share a tree, it's easy to think of it as 1 class with 5 talent trees instead of 2 with 2 each and an odd shared tree. When you pick your class during character creation is when this concept should be spelled out, clearly and in big bold letters.

 

By the time I got to the point to pick my AC, I had picked up on the permanency, though I was still unsure enough to check online first (hence this post) but when I MADE my character I picked Consular because I honestly thought that I'd be able to switch between healing and tanking once I'd experienced flashpoints and had a feel for how I wanted to play most of the game. My point is this:

 

The class system isn't horribly indecipherable or incredibly complicated, in fact it seems sort of cool. But it is far from as clear as it should be or as simple as it could be. Other games have done it clearer and simpler, or if they've gone more complex they've given you MUCH more freedom.

 

It's middle ground is refreshing and fun, but needs some definite polish and clarity.

 

TLDR: Don't be a jerk, talk it out. Everyone here was a little bit right but acted mean.

[SpankyMcFlych]

I see a lot of people comparing two advanced classes (sage vs shadow for consulars) to two completely different classes in wow... which is patently wrong.

 

Sage and shadow have the same resource, the same base abilities, the same companions, the same ships, and to top it off the exact same class story. They are the same class.

[Paydroid]

Advanced classes have different talent trees, gear, roles, abilities, appearances... the only thing they have in common are storylines and companions, and some gameplay mechanics. I think it would be bizarre to allow people to change in midstream on that decision. Comparisons to WoW aren't fair, but that doesn't change the point: there are 8 classes, arranged into similar pairs.

[strikeviperMKII]

I see a lot of people comparing two advanced classes (sage vs shadow for consulars) to two completely different classes in wow... which is patently wrong.

 

Sage and shadow have the same resource, the same base abilities, the same companions, the same ships, and to top it off the exact same class story. They are the same class.

 

Sage and Shadow have some of the same abilities...but are two completely different play styles, two completely different roles even. Thus two completely different classes.

[MWidowmaker]

deleted because stupid people make me hostile Edited February 8, 2012 by MWidowmaker

[MWidowmaker]

What people don't seem to understand on here is, SOME PEOPLE JUST CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO REDO 1/2 OR EVEN 3 DAYS OF WORK. SOME OF US HAVE LIVES TO LIVE.

 

 

stop with the hyperbole, it doesnt take that long to get to level 10

 

i have a life too, full time job all that, and it really is not that big of a deal to get to level 10, no matter how much you want to scream and shout about it.

Edited February 8, 2012 by MWidowmaker

[Lostpharoah]

I would have thought you would have found it out when you select your advanced class and the game tells you you can't change it.

 

 

 

^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^

 

They paid special emphasis to let you know it was a permanent choice as well..

So I say hooligans on the ops claim, pretty sure he knew and is trying forum propaganda to have his choice switched for him.

[budxors]

Obviously the best solution is a giant neon box that comes in the middle of your screen saying

 

"Class choice is PERMANENT. That means you can NEVER change your class. Are you really sure you want to be a <class>".

 

It takes 1-2 hours to hit level 10 after you've done a starting area once and seen all the storyline, so you just mash spacebar through everything except alignment choices.

 

If you could change your AC there would be even MORE inquisitor/consulars running around because you can get a completely different playstyle just by changing your AC. A warrior can either be more damagey or more tanky. Not exactly as big of a switch.

[MeanMartian]

^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^

 

They paid special emphasis to let you know it was a permanent choice as well..

So I say hooligans on the ops claim, pretty sure he knew and is trying forum propaganda to have his choice switched for him.

 

I think you mean "I call shenanigans" on the ops claim. Saying Hooligan would require throwing an empty guinness bottle at his head during a football match.

[MeanMartian]

What gets me about this discussion is that nobody is addressing the topic of whether advanced class switching would make this game better. Some folks have claimed this would lead to a lot more FOTM builds, though logically, it could only double the number of FOTM builds at most and then only if classes were designed so poorly that a large number of players would be willing to jump ship to a completely different play style for that edge.

 

So, from this point on, I propose that any further arguments for, or against, advanced class switching be followed with, "I believe this because" and then a simple explanation of your reasons. If you find yourself unable to give an explanation for your reasons, than I further propose you just not bother posting.

 

I'll begin. I think that advanced class switching would add value to the subscription cost of the game, increase retention and overall player satisfaction. I believe this because the ability to switch your advanced class doubles the number of play experiences without requiring that players invest the 50+ hours of spacebar spam that it takes to get an alt to max level.

 

In other games, WoW most notably, there are classes with dramatically and widely disparate talent trees. Shamans, Druids and Paladins come most distinctly to mind. With one of these classes you can choose between three, or four, entirely different play experiences just be respeccing. That makes your character feel really dynamic and, for those of us interested in mastering three or four specs, ToR doesn't have that. Sure, most Advanced Classes can choose between one of two roles, but it's not as challenging, and it's not as fun. Advanced class switching would make any ToR player more dynamic and more interesting than even the most mutable druid. I believe this is good for the game because I've played games that restrict your end game experience, or put onerous time requirements for expanding that end game experience, I personally did not enjoy those games and I don't play those games any longer.

Edited February 9, 2012 by MeanMartian

[Jerross]

I agree that the AC trainer is rather obvious in saying that you cannot switch. I can also say that it annoys me a little that I cant, but I'm okay for now.

 

I played 1 class through WoW to max, a Paladin. I didn't need another class because I could tank/dps/heal all with one toon. I chose my Consular because I thought it would be the same, not knowing when I started that AC's were permanent. Am I going to start another Consular? Screw that. I'll just wait for the day they make it available to switch AC's, because I know it'll come eventually. There are enough people out there, such as myself, that would love to see it, and Bioware will eventually fold. Just like they have on so many other things so far to keep players paying the sub fees.

[Lain]

So I guess you spacebarred the part where the Trainer said you cannot change your AC?

 

Only game I ever played that allowed me to change my root class was the old Star Wars Galaxies and that's cause there was no root class, just skill trees.

 

You played 10 levels, suck it up and spend a couple hours and pick Sniper, or go Repub and pick Gunslinger.

 

I've had no problems with low damage as an Operative, but I also upgrade my gear all the time.

[Kallti]

 

<snip>

 

I'll begin. I think that advanced class switching would add value to the subscription cost of the game, increase retention and overall player satisfaction. I believe this because the ability to switch your advanced class doubles the number of play experiences without requiring that players invest the 50+ hours of spacebar spam that it takes to get an alt to max level..

 

</snip>

 

 

Your point is well made, however it is counter-intuitive for a business to allow it's customers to circumnavigate 50 hours of gameplay. I also disagree with you theory that it would increase retention and satisfaction.

 

Let me ask you, where does your enhanced player experience end? Your reasoning implies that switching from a Sith Warrior Juggernaut to a Smuggler Gunslinger would enhance the player experience also because it saved you 50 hours of spacebar spam. Do you think that is a good idea? On the flip side, do you think it would be a good idea to remove levelling altogether?

 

I don't believe any game of this genre (EQ/WoW clones) will ever allow people to change class as you are null and voiding a lot of developer hours, amongst other things. These games are all designed around having a huge time sink to levelling which allow you to have a greater sense of achievement once you get to the top, after all, that is why we play these games, they put a lot of funds into researching human psychology and manipulating our sense of achievement. Plus, you're not really "Role Playing" if you can just change your entire class. Remember, this is a Role Playing Game.

 

They don't want players to have one of each class... easily. They want you to master your chosen class and then play with others who have done the same to overcome challenges and get teh purplez. They do this because human psychology tells them that their playerbase will be more attached to their character if they have to sink 50-150 hours into creating it.

 

Now, whether they should introduce a new class to SWTOR which has the ability to perform all three roles via their talent trees like a Druid/Paladin in WoW... well, I guess that's another discussion.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Kallti

[Toogeloo]

Most people only want AC respecs because their class isn't the FotM character or ezmode or just isn't needed for their raids or groups or what have you. Just give it time. The AC you want will be nerfed, the AC you are will be buffed, and had you respeced, you would be complaining that you have to respec again.

 

 

There is a need for every class in the game from someone. If everyone respeced because they wanted to tank and they chose the Healer or DPS class, then we would be short on Healers and DPS and over abundant on Tanks. The game tells you exactly what to expect out of your advanced class mechanics. Choose a role that you want to fill in the leveling and endgame and you will be happy... respecing advanced class won't change that.

[Doddilus]

...If everyone respeced because they wanted to tank and they chose the Healer or DPS class, then we would be short on Healers and DPS and over abundant on Tanks...

 

lol

When in the history of any mmo has there been an abundance of tanks?

 

 

 

Whats so bad about giving people more choice?

[Mapex]

The only situation where an AC respec would be okay is if you level as one AC but find out you hate it or would prefer the other AC. It is hard to get a good feel for a class's playstyle until around level 30 when you can get enough talents under your belt. For this reason we need limited AC respecs (maybe 2 respecs, one to try the other AC out, one to respec back).

[Sylriana]

Neutral on the topic, but I do think the people acting like it'd ruin the integrity of the game are a bit exaggerating. I mean, even in the most extreme scenario ( unlimited, cheap, and frequent AC switching options ) what would happen? You'd essentially just gain access to a class with 5 talent trees rather than 3.

 

Admittedly I'm a little interested in the idea for selfish reasons, as when I started the game I got stuck in the odd conundrum of wanting to play an Agent, wanting to heal, but not wanting to be melee DPS ( and it turns out agent healing isn't as effective or exciting as I'd originally hoped )

 

 

Your point is well made, however it is counter-intuitive for a business to allow it's customers to circumnavigate 50 hours of gameplay.

 

The question here becomes a matter of statistics though. Is a player who invests serious time to reach mid or endgame with a specific AC and ends up not enjoying it and wishes they had access to the other AC more likely to replay the same class again or give up on the character entirely? Is a level 25-40 powertech who decides he's fed up with the class more likely to roll a mercenary, or to give up on the bounty hunter entirely in favor of a different experience? With how often I hear people complain about repetitiveness, I'm not entirely convinced the former is more likely... though I don't actually have access to the numbers.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Sylriana

[Toogeloo]

It's not even that hard to level a class to 50 and gear up for that matter. This isn't FFXI. In my guild alone, almost everyone has a 50 and an alt level 50, both geared enough to do 16 man ops with.

 

People shouldn't be picking a class based on lightsabers or blasters or things like that. They should be looking at the info presented at AC selection. Ranged or Close Combat? Healer, DPS, or Tank? Light, Medium, Heavy Armor?

 

Everything else is aesthetics. If someone chooses a class based on aesthetics, than they will either love the class because they are playing what they really want despite whatever mechanical flaws it has, or they will really hate it because they will be let down that it wasn't exactly what they thought it was going to be.

 

 

Allowing Respecs is just gonna open the door to everyone playing the same AC within the archetype. We will have nothing but Sorcerors, Mercenaries, and Juggernauts (which are already the most played classes for Empire).