ZioGio Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I admit it. I'm a role player. Not the "speak in character" kind, but I like to think of my avatar as an extension of myself. I played Republic during closed beta knowing that my friends wanted to go Empire at launch. I enjoyed healing as a Jedi Sage in beta so I want to give Sith Sorcerer a try, but I have a difficult time meshing the storyline and selfish goals of a Sith Inquisitor with being a healer. How do others justify this apparent dichotomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binro_rob Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Healing a group member is nothing but an end to a means. They, at the time were useful to my needs. Those need may change in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durt Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You could also, since it's called Corruption, think of it as you fueling the rage and hate of others to push them further to the dark side as you heal them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulzin Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 1. There really is no such thing as a truly selfless act. Any action taken based on a desire to be selfless has one's own self as the source of motivation, not other party. That is, if someone says they're being selfless it's because *they* want to be selfless because *they* value it. Being selfless is really just being selfishly sneaky. Those Jedi are just being hypocrites. 2. Even if you want to own being selfish, it's not like I'm healing khem because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy. I'll heal him if necessary because he's my meat shield and I'm not stupid. 3. Studying the healing arts, or focusing on healing, could have a general motivation of simply wanting to keep yourself alive and expressing control over the lives of others. I hold your life in my hand and I value that as a form of currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synti Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I would also put in that there is also no such thing as simple evil, at least I don't think so. Nobody really believes themselves evil, it is more a matter of justifying ones actions in order to cope with reality. I think Darth Malgus is an exemplar of this sort of behavior, if you've read book where the Sith sack Corusant. I forget what the exact name of the books is but at the beginning, like in the video trailer, he has a twilek slave, but whom he does not treat as a slave. He genially loves her and even risks his career, his life, in order to get her into a proper hospital and care after she is badly wounded in battle. Ofc, usually such relationships do not end well and he kills her in the end, but even then, he feels remorse and sadness for doing so, justifying it to himself that she is a weakness to him that his enemies can exploit. In the context of your character, you can easily imagine a similar relationship between you and your companions. In fact, it gives them tremendous depth, not to mention character, to consider why they follow you and why do you keep them around ... especially since quite a few of them can be really insufferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZioGio Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 These are all great insights and give me something to build on. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrandt Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Uhm, using the Force to heal wounds and restore health, and to keep people from dying, is considered the very darkest kind of "sorcery" in the galaxy. It is considered unnatural and selfish. Lorewise, Jedi Consulars are a big lorelol. Prior to this game, using the Force to heal was seen as blasphemy. Think about it for a moment. Why did Anakin turn to the dark side?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synti Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Uhm, using the Force to heal wounds and restore health, and to keep people from dying, is considered the very darkest kind of "sorcery" in the galaxy. It is considered unnatural and selfish. Well, first of all, what works in a movie and what works in a computer game are two very different things. Secondly, if healing and mending wounds were considered unnatural, it would include all forms of modern medicine. What Yoda says in the movie, is that death is a natural part of life. But that doesn't mean that if you fall and break your leg that you shouldn't put a cast on it, or if you're wounded on the battlefield that you shouldn't be taken to medical care. What Darth Sidious describes, to me at least, seems more about prolonging life beyond natural death, like aging for instance, and surviving circumstances after which it is no longer purposeful to live but to move on and emerge with the force. That is what the jedi are all about, communion with the force. When a person dies, he becomes one with the force and that is why prolonging life beyond natural capacity is considered evil. My understanding is that this is why surviving as a force spirit like e.g. yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Obiwan did, is not considered unnatural because the the same merging with the force still occurs and the cycle of life is not disrupted. Btw, it also wasn't, strictly speaking what corrupted Anakin. The promise of power to save Padme was simply a lure that Palpatine used. What corrupted Anakin was quite simply the arrogance and lust for power, simple as. Palpatine ofc never intended to keep his promises, as long as he could trap Anakin with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZioGio Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Uhm, using the Force to heal wounds and restore health, and to keep people from dying, is considered the very darkest kind of "sorcery" in the galaxy. It is considered unnatural and selfish. Lorewise, Jedi Consulars are a big lorelol. Prior to this game, using the Force to heal was seen as blasphemy. Think about it for a moment. Why did Anakin turn to the dark side?... From my understanding, the concept of Jedi Healers and Jedi Consulars have been around longer than this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kansaskyle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Great post! I am in the same boat with playing an "evil" character due to real-life friends all choosing to roll Empire toons. In my role-play mind, I made female characters and consider them slaves to the Empire. They use their powers to heal, which is the closest they can come to being "good" people. At one point in a quest line, the story even hinted about defecting, which I'm sure wouldn't actually work in-game, but it made for an interesting option. My companions typically hate my light side choices. My record with Khem Val was -160 affection for letting somebody live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotodama Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 When many of these characters including NPCs experience 'darkness' for the first time, they exclaim how good it feels. You need to stop viewing the Sith as a self-absorbed sociopath, a healing sith may want to share the high of darkness with his or her allies, the feeling of accelerated emotion and adreniline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinkicker Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) 'Evil' force healing would be more akin to necromancy and other 'dark' fantasy based like extension techniques, ie body jumping or soul bonding. Or sucking the life out of an entire planet to fuel your own. Jedi I guess heal through positive neutral means, hence they are big on meditation and the like. Its a longer, slower road but the results may be more stable. Basically healing via the soul. Sith healing would be like, jabbing someone with an adrenaline shot, or rapid cellular mutation. More physical based healing, much quicker but chances that it could go wrong would be higher but over all the end result is the same. If that's right (roughly), it'd mean that the Sith healing methods would be more 'practical' particularly in a combat situation were speed would be key. But the Jedi one would be better afterwards or when time isn't a factor. Neither are wrong if viewed like that, it just depends on the situation for which one is required. Unfortunately Sith healing would lend itself much more easily towards the life sucking type of skills since they are drawing on "physical" life more so then the "spiritual" (the force being the conduit, I guess). Anakin being swayed by healing techniques from Palpatine was merely just a hook by him to get Anakin to consider and thus fall to the Dark Side as he never had any intention to teach him those skills. The black and white outlook on Sith and Jedi is pretty limiting/impractical when you get down to it. The disney-esque evil of the Sith at times is fairly facepalm worthy, fine follow your passion but it doesn't mean you have to be an idiot! If anything the two working together would be incredible. Edited January 4, 2012 by shinkicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinedoc Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 An "evil" healer is quite easily explained in a RP sense. You are banding together with others in a group to not only defeat the Republic, but to also gain credits and gear. Healing your group will help you to defeat that many more enemies, it only makes sense for you to use your best talents in that pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaile Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Palpatine healed and rebuilt Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My Inquisitor healer isn't evil at all. All it takes is breaking the ingrained Republic = good, Sith = bad mindset. Both are tyrannies, though only one is honest about it. Both violently suppress rebellions and succession efforts. Both are willing to use manipulation and deception. Both are even willing to use deadly force against agents of the other faction that they are ostensibly at peace with. A Senator can almost never be held accountable for their rulings. Certainly 50% of Senators can't be. On the other hand, if a Sith can gain enough power, they can hold anyone they want accountable ... for any reason they want. Open bald-faced assassination of Darths and Moffs is frowned upon - but if you're powerful enough and have the decency to not get caught, no one's going to launch a galactic manhunt looking for the perpetrator. Even Mace Windu ultimately succumbs to this way of thinking, when he self-justifies murdering the lawfully elected supreme executive of the Republic because he might get found innocent by the courts. If one of the two top leaders of the Jedi Order (albeit 3600 years in the future) can think that way, you can bet your Sith Inquisitor is allowed to, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuKazuha Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Imo Inquisitor-Healing, with rp in mind, is not based on the notion of supporting others, but on control. As an Inquisitor-"Healer" you control your pawns from behind. You fuel them with the dark side to suit your goals and in complete disregard of the damage done to their bodies. If they die on long term effects of the exposure to dark side energy is not of concern, as long as they stand long enough to get you what you want. Also, they are always at your mercy. You decide whether they live or die by leding or denying them your power. If they don't prove useful any longer, they fall. Edited January 5, 2012 by RyuKazuha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zYNNN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just smoke something, and pretend it's your dad tanking. I'm sure you will find explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synica Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) If you played a Bounty Hunter all the way through, you'd see just how 'good' the Republic is. The Republic is just as sinister and corrupt as the Sith Empire is. They just go to greater lengths to cover their ******** with lies and paint themselves out to be the 'good guys'. At least with the Sith Empire, you know what you're getting up front. Being a healer for the Empire is no different than being a healer for the Republic. The Jedi may think of themselves as Altruists, but in reality, it's debatable as to whether true Altruism even exists. Most could quite reasonably argue that everyone, the Jedi included are actually anti-Altruists. IE their reward for 'selflessness' is the satisfaction that they have assisted someone in need and made the galaxy a better place because of it. So, would you rather side with an order that is apathetic and in denial about their feelings, or a group who are trapped within their own emotional cage, both fueled and restricted by their rage and fear? Pick what you think is the lesser of the two flawed philosophical standpoints and roll with it. Edited January 5, 2012 by Synica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) An "evil" healer is quite easily explained in a RP sense. You are banding together with others in a group to not only defeat the Republic, but to also gain credits and gear. Healing your group will help you to defeat that many more enemies, it only makes sense for you to use your best talents in that pursuit. Id think of healing teammates as trying to corrupt them: "Feel the power that I give you! Doesnt that feel good? Now serve me and I make you feel even better" Also, Sith lords have been using sith sorcery and alchemy to extend their own lifespan in multiple occasions, numerous times. Healing is definitely integral part of the dark side. Besides, if youre the Sith lord, you can do what you want and your underlings cant question you. You can use healing as means to an end like others said. If youre the underling, you just do what your lord commands you to. Again, same motivation. Edited January 5, 2012 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattdontbeahero Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Playing an 'evil' character can go two different ways, Lawful Evil (Light Side) and Chaotic Evil (Dark Side). As such, you're Sith is going to be evil either way, no matter what decision he or she makes, the only difference is that you're sith can be morecompassionate, understanding, lawful, or simply serve an end that will justify a means. However, most Sith, such as mine (He's only level five at the momemt, but I am making different alts with different personalities to see which ones I like best) is almost pure evil, but not to a point where cuts everyone down in his path and what not, but to a point were he understands what needs to get done, and sometimes killing every single person you come in contact with isn't always the 'right' choice when wanting to play an evil character. As they say on Korriban, you need to be more of a 'thinking' Sith, rather than one that relies purely on rage and instinct. That being said, if you are a Sith that heals his allies, it does not mean that he is suddenly a good guy or that he follows the path of light, nor does it make him or her any less evil. Even the bad guys have medics because, well, bad guys need to be healed too. If your Sith needs a prized relic at the end of a Flashpoint mission, or is on a certain mission that the Empire needs/wants him to complete, but he lacks the fighting/defensive skills necessary to take damage, then why not sit back and heal someone who can? If it is what your Sith excells at, then go for it. You will have what's yours in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkrische Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My Inquisitor healer isn't evil at all. All it takes is breaking the ingrained Republic = good, Sith = bad mindset. Both are tyrannies... Even Mace Windu ultimately succumbs to this way of thinking, when he self-justifies murdering the lawfully elected supreme executive of the Republic because he might get found innocent by the courts. If one of the two top leaders of the Jedi Order (albeit 3600 years in the future) can think that way, you can bet your Sith Inquisitor is allowed to, as well. There is a big difference between an elected official and someone who takes political power by force. Even a corrupt election moves your worlds closer to better and away from worse, and its going to be hard to argue against that. If you think the republic is a perfect governing body you are in for a shock but I think most would prefer a rule of law (flawed as it is) over being "disappeared" because of your anti Imperial rhetoric. Would you rather live in the US Canada or Europe, or say Myanmar? Now where would you rather live if you were a law abiding ethnic Myanmarese, but were still being "cleansed" because the guy who took the power said so? I don't know much star wars lore but if you are referring to Senator Palpatine, Windu is still appealing to a higher power that carries the political authority of the people. No matter how far removed, it will be much harder to get away with some genocidal atrocity in a "republic" type system. At some point the risk of killing the leader of the most destructive group in the galaxy outweighed the possibility of punishment. Would you have killed Hitler in cold blood if you had the chance? Windu may be making some kind of "self-justification" as you said, but he knows his is not the final word on the matter that is HUGE. Your first statement nullifies the authority of the elected republic the second seeks it as a justification. Pick one. The best argument for playing a Sith is... power for power's sake. Don't try and rationalize it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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