PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 More on that, Jaina had all the same instructors as Jacen when growing up, they were taught all the same techniques. And they had sparred many times with eachother. Because of this, Jacen knew her exact fighting style, and would be able to anticipate her every action. Jaina needed a drastically different fighting style, and thus sought out a mentor which Jacen would not have had to teach her different techniques. "I know all your moves" is such a horribly overused cliche, especially considering the Mandalorians never actually displayed any unusual moves beyond "Mando angry! Mando smash!" And in that last fight of theirs, she did nothing unique, making that whole storyline about her Mando sabbatical completely pointless (which I'm pretty sure was intentional: the way it's written, it's pretty clear Troy Denning did everything he could to un**** Traviss' crap story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 "Mando angry! Mando smash!" Lol this made an image in my head, of mandolorians turning green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfSight Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Can anyone explain how and why the Mandalorians are ruined? I never really watched the ''Clone Wars'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Can anyone explain how and why the Mandalorians are ruined? I never really watched the ''Clone Wars'' Something about them becoming peaceful or what have you. But they were already ruined long before that. Edited January 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It seems that some people hate the idea of Mandalorians as "spartans" As in farmers who are great warriors, and have advanced weapon/armor making techniques. Other people hate the idea of Mandalorians as a pacifistic society with a terrorist sect who is a danger to the galaxy. Other people think Boba Fett is dead. One way or another, nobody can agree in this thread as to what the Mandalorians are or should be. I'm a SW lore vet, and i'm as anal about the canon as the next super-nerd, but I like TCW, and I like Karen Traviss's books. And no, Boba Fett is not dead, but Mara Jade is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It seems that some people hate the idea of Mandalorians as "spartans" As in farmers who are great warriors, and have advanced weapon/armor making techniques. Other people hate the idea of Mandalorians as a pacifistic society with a terrorist sect who is a danger to the galaxy. Other people think Boba Fett is dead. One way or another, nobody can agree in this thread as to what the Mandalorians are or should be. I'm a SW lore vet, and i'm as anal about the canon as the next super-nerd, but I like TCW, and I like Karen Traviss's books. And no, Boba Fett is not dead, but Mara Jade is I don't really care about any of that stuff. My issue is this whole Mando subculture of fanbois. By highlighting them as their own unique society worth celebrating in and of itself (Klingons), Fandalorians have ramped up the douche factor and made bad*** Boba Fett into a complete tool who's part of a heritage of complete tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinkaid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Mandos are Star Wars' Klingon groupies. Congratulations guys, you ruined Boba Fett. +1 He's dead fanboys deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) The Taung > Reg mandalorians I'd rather take 10 6.5 foot tall BA original mandos then 50 human/alien ones. Not to mention they look liked Predators which is always awesome. Edited January 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It is clearly explained that the people of the planet Mandalore are separate from the Mandalorian warrior forces and fits into Canon just fine. If you read the Jango Fett comics you'll see that Death Watch was a black mark on Mandalorian honor and in of itself was a terrorist sect, Death Watch doesn't represent the Mandolorian way of life. During the time of the clone wars Mandalorian traditions are scattered into small sects across the galaxy while the planet has become peaceful and turned away from the warrior past. Later on in the books the Mandalorians under Boba Fett re-take Mandalore and during the Second Galactic Civil war the people have returned to the warrior ways of their past. They didn't try to change what the Mandalorians were, Death Watch was always a terroristic clan even to other mandalorian clans who still hold to the warrior ways of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linkywinky Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I've come to the conclusion that, while I applaud Lucas for setting the foundation for such a fantastic world, he really should leave it to other people who actually know how to write a good story. It must be difficult to see something you've created get turned into something else, but Lucas needs to realize that it's for the better. He's only screwing up Star Wars and alienating his fans. /agree The EU is way better than anything he could ever dream of doing... but props for setting it all up for us Lucas. Plus Lucas is so full of contradictions and can't keep stuff straight anymore, so he is in no way my gauge for my personal canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBentOne Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This. Fandalorians have ramped up the douche factor and made bad*** Boba Fett into a complete tool who's part of a heritage of complete tools. Thank you for ruining Boba Fett Traviss. I hate you forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 +1 He's dead fanboys deal No he isn't. The EU has established that he has lived on. The EU is Canon, despite what you may think. This entire game exists within the EU, you can't just pick and choose. GL may have said that it was his intention for Boba Fett to have died in RotJ, but until he remakes the special-special 3d edition, showing a dead corpse of Boba Fett, then there is no contradiction with the EU. We know that the saarlac digests things over thousands of years. We also know that Boba Fett is one of the most resourceful and notorious bounty hunters of his day, and is clad head to toe in armor and weaponry. There is no reason why he could NOT have escaped the Saarlac. That said, we also see Darth Maul "Die" in TPM. You can claim all you want that Maul is dead, but we're about to learn that isn't the case. I have no problem with Traviss works, or TCW. I am a fan of SW lore and canon, and regardless of author or source. Fett lives, Mandalorians are just another part of SW, like nightsisters or Sandpeople. The story goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) It is clearly explained that the people of the planet Mandalore are separate from the Mandalorian warrior forces and fits into Canon just fine. If you read the Jango Fett comics you'll see that Death Watch was a black mark on Mandalorian honor and in of itself was a terrorist sect, Death Watch doesn't represent the Mandolorian way of life. During the time of the clone wars Mandalorian traditions are scattered into small sects across the galaxy while the planet has become peaceful and turned away from the warrior past. Later on in the books the Mandalorians under Boba Fett re-take Mandalore and during the Second Galactic Civil war the people have returned to the warrior ways of their past. They didn't try to change what the Mandalorians were, Death Watch was always a terroristic clan even to other mandalorian clans who still hold to the warrior ways of the past. Hahaha...I love it when the EU comes up with hand-waiving excuses for continuity errors, and people defend it like that was their intention all along. Like the whole thousand generations vs thousand years thing. "Uh, the Republic wasn't really the Republic until the Ruusan Reformation a thousand years ago, because they became more democratic then, so clearly the Republic before which existed for thousands of years wasn't the Republic even though we called it the Republic, because that would contradict what Bibble said, and that's G-Canon, even though it contradicts other G-Canon, therefore they must both be right...yeah, that's the ticket!" And for all those that insist that what is officially canon must be acknowledged as the "true" story: bite me. Han shot first. Edited January 16, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hahaha...I love it when the EU comes up with hand-waiving excuses for continuity errors, and people defend it like that was their intention all along. Like the whole thousand generations vs thousand years thing. "Uh, the Republic wasn't really the Republic until the Ruusan Reformation a thousand years ago, because they became more democratic then, so clearly the Republic before which existed for thousands of years wasn't the Republic even though we called it the Republic, because that would contradict what Bibble said, and that's G-Canon, even though it contradicts other G-Canon, therefore they must both be right...yeah, that's the ticket!" And for all those that insist that what is officially canon must be acknowledged as the "true" story: bite me. Han shot first. hand-waiving excuses for continuity errors? You mean retcons? They exist to fix errors made by Lucas or other authors. SW is a fairy tale, a long ago in a far away land. Every story and movie, and comic is just a tale of events that happened then. Ask 10 different people about what happened to the Roman Empire, and you might get 10 different answers. Even Shakespear put his own twists on his history stories. Not everything will fit together perfectly, but that's no reason to dismiss any of it. How long has Canada existed? Since people first landed? since confederation? since statute of westminster? Depends on your own point of view. Obi Wan and Bibble had different points of view. Obi Wan saw the republic as the galactic entity the jedi order defended for 25000 years. Bibble saw the republic as the current structuring of government which had lasted for 1000 years. Look at Turkey, would you say it existed since the 1900s, or the middle ages since it spawned out of the ottoman empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 hand-waiving excuses for continuity errors? You mean retcons? They exist to fix errors made by Lucas or other authors. Star Wars...BLAHBLAHPOINTLESSREALWORLDEXAMPLES Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Retcon = hand-waiving excuse for continuity errors. You get a gold star! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ah, sorry, I thought you were looking for a proper discussion, clearly I was mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ah, sorry, I thought you were looking for a proper discussion, clearly I was mistaken TWO gold stars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obarskyer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 well I think the proper way to get rid of some people is with fire otherwise they just keep regenerating. And another there are people in this world who's thoughts are FACT not opinion we all need to deal with it and understand what they say is law and theres no way around it. Its like hitting a brick wall with your head. Just don't do it it is useless and hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 well I think the proper way to get rid of some people is with fire otherwise they just keep regenerating. And another there are people in this world who's thoughts are FACT not opinion we all need to deal with it and understand what they say is law and theres no way around it. Its like hitting a brick wall with your head. Just don't do it it is useless and hurts. Phoenix's regenerate with fire, dudebro. Let me clarify for Omnitheo's sake: you're trying to defend a system that is based on people being forced to make up for other people's screwups and/or lack of caring about established canon by using revisionist history as an argument. I find this laughable. The bottom line is however you justify it to yourself, even defenders of the retcon system should be capable of admitting that these plot changes are, at their core, a hand-waiving excuse to justify someone else's mistake. The fact that you seem incapable of admitting this means that, no, I have no desire to have a coherent debate with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Phoenix's regenerate with fire, dudebro. Let me clarify for Omnitheo's sake: you're trying to defend a system that is based on people being forced to make up for other people's screwups and/or lack of caring about established canon by using revisionist history as an argument. I find this laughable. The bottom line is however you justify it to yourself, even defenders of the retcon system should be capable of admitting that these plot changes are, at their core, a hand-waiving excuse to justify someone else's mistake. The fact that you seem incapable of admitting this means that, no, I have no desire to have a coherent debate with you. Here's my take on it. I like Star Wars, sometimes it can be rediculous, but for the most part it's enjoyable. I own over 100 of the novels. Yes, sometimes authors make mistakes, and it can be annoying when someone miss-spells a character name, or gives a character the wrong personality, or has a young Jedi in 40BBY comment that they miss the old jedi temple on coruscant (I'm looking at you Christine Golden). But rather than just disregard everything because of some conflicts, I would much rather try to find some way for it all to work together. 1000 years vs 1000 generations, sure it bugged me in the prequels, but then we got the Darth Bane books. I understand that people have certain opinions on what they like and don't like about the EU (I'll never purchase Splinter of the Mind's eye). The whole idea though, is that every work regarding SW is being told from the author's perspective, with their own take on the story. Maybe some stories are embellished, perhaps Ganner Rhysode didn't really kill a mountain worth of Yuuzhan Vong, but hey, it was at least interesting. my point is, mistakes are made, but really, you have to take things with a grain of salt sometimes. If Traviss severely underestimated the number of Clones in the clone wars, perhaps there was a reason for it, maybe it's not the total number. Either way, I'd rather some explanation than just throwing it all away as if it didn't happen. I hadn't actually read the Republic Commando books, I previously had little interest in the prequel era (at least as long as Lucas was tampering with it), but now after watching TCW, I'm looking forward to some of the stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitix Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The Mandalorian retcon was a great and bold decision on LucasFilm's part. The prequel-era Mandalorians were a mess beforehand. It's a good thing that they were fixed in The Clone Wars. It is clearly explained that the people of the planet Mandalore are separate from the Mandalorian warrior forces and fits into Canon just fine. If you read the Jango Fett comics you'll see that Death Watch was a black mark on Mandalorian honor and in of itself was a terrorist sect, Death Watch doesn't represent the Mandolorian way of life. During the time of the clone wars Mandalorian traditions are scattered into small sects across the galaxy while the planet has become peaceful and turned away from the warrior past. Later on in the books the Mandalorians under Boba Fett re-take Mandalore and during the Second Galactic Civil war the people have returned to the warrior ways of their past. They didn't try to change what the Mandalorians were, Death Watch was always a terroristic clan even to other mandalorian clans who still hold to the warrior ways of the past. The Mandalorians were always barbarians. It's the "honorable" warriors that were a rarity, that includes Jaster Mereel and Jango Fett. Remember, this is the same race that almost annihilated the Cathars according to the lore established in TOR. If anything, the Death Watch are pure Mandalorian in the classical sense. Edited January 17, 2012 by Aitix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obarskyer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I actually enjoyed the republic/imp commando series. I generally don't take books super serious and get miffed when they mess something up I can probably say I might not catch it. I take the books as their meant to be entertainment. as far as the handwaving and what not no idea what the hell your talking about. We are human everyone makes mistakes. Also as other people say mistakes in books if you think about it shouldn't really happen though. There are discussions about ideas between people, Right? I would imagine there are people who proof read the books that are some peoples job so how do some of these things happen how do they get by, well honest answer i guess **** happens. And I was refering to a troll not a phoenix reborn by fire just to clarify. Like I said He was making his point and you were just "watching his mouth move with out listening" and said nope. The other thing I like is when someone makes a argument and someone uses real life events to make an example and the other person then says What does that have to do with anything were not even talking about that. And anything else you have to say well I declare dodge! My other question? sorry about this, WHAT the hell are you guys talking about with maul being brought back? I mostly read just the books nothing about whats gonna happen He got cut in half hows he still alive and when did GL say that? I'm not arguing again with this stuff i'm mostly out of the loop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 TCW has established that Darth Maul survived his dual. How he did this, or what shape he's in now though we probably won't find out until the end of Season 4. I'm less concerned with the fact that he's alive, so much as the means by which he's alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesri Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 o.O Traviss did more damage than TCW ever even contemplated. Place blame where blame is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corithdestrin Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 It seems that some people hate the idea of Mandalorians as "spartans" As in farmers who are great warriors, and have advanced weapon/armor making techniques. Other people hate the idea of Mandalorians as a pacifistic society with a terrorist sect who is a danger to the galaxy. Other people think Boba Fett is dead. One way or another, nobody can agree in this thread as to what the Mandalorians are or should be. I'm a SW lore vet, and i'm as anal about the canon as the next super-nerd, but I like TCW, and I like Karen Traviss's books. And no, Boba Fett is not dead, but Mara Jade is Word! I feel ya. I have thought about it and I totaly regret starting this thread. lol. This is crazy there is much love and hate in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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