Another Week of Duplicated 252 Items

[Przemo_No]

as for the "trading" UCS for needed items or getting the Masterwork Crystals my question is HOW MANY TIMES will I need to kill the same bosses to get the required number of said crystals?

 

this is what is RIDICULOUS in it.

 

Imagine you have a character that is 242 geared. You get 2 MWC per week. You need at least 28 of them to have all 252 items (more or less, cos you still get some items via RNG)

and then you repeat all the show again to get 258 gear.

 

Sorry but NO. No way that I am going to play only 2 or 3 weekly bosses ad nauseam.

 

As for my characters - each of them played the Ossus WBs only once - when they could get the guaranteed piece of gear.

I refuse to play it more - it is extremely BORING!!

[Jdast]

Before you open the gear crate, do you know the exact 252 rated item you will receive (without any degree of mistake) from that exact gear crate that you are opening? If not, then, by definition, it is programmed as RNG by design.

 

For the last (and I mean very last, since you just don't get it.)

 

The value of the loot box is BINARY. It is worth either 1000 UCs since it saves you two shards (assuming you go the 500 MWS per week route) or it is worth 175 UCs, which can be used by ANY character to purchase ANY item. It cannot be valued less. It cannot be valued more. That is the ANTITHESIS of RNG. It is BINARY.

 

What some of us are saying is that the 20 minutes of time invested to get the minimum is a very, very worthwhile investment, particularly when compared to other forms of gaining the exact same universal, legacy-wide currency.

 

If you stop looking at it as a piece of loot, since you still need to use UCs to upgrade it, you view it through the lens of its actual value -- the ability to purchase MWS. But it cannot go lower than 175, even if you do what I do, and are satisfied with the initial 252 gear rating on my alts.

 

<<Crikies, I've earned a martini. Fortunately, have a freshly chilled one nearby! >>

 

Dasty

Edited March 25, 2019 by Jdast

[DNGDangerous]

For the last (and I mean very last, since you just don't get it.)

 

The value of the loot box is BINARY. It is worth either 1000 UCs since it saves you two shards (assuming you go the 500 MWS per week route) or it is worth 175 UCs, which can be used by ANY character to purchase ANY item. It cannot be valued less. It cannot be valued more. That is the ANTITHESIS of RNG. It is BINARY.

 

What some of us are saying is that the 20 minutes of time invested to get the minimum is a very, very worthwhile investment, particularly when compared to other forms of gaining the exact same universal, legacy-wide currency.

 

If you stop looking at it as a piece of loot, since you still need to use UCs to upgrade it, you view it through the lens of its actual value -- the ability to purchase MWS. But it cannot go lower than 175, even if you do what I do, and are satisfied with the initial 252 gear rating on my alts.

 

<<Crikies, I've earned a martini. Fortunately, have a freshly chilled one nearby! >>

 

Dasty

 

RNG stands for Random Number Generator. Each loot crate has a pool of rewards, and upon opening said loot crate, the game will use a RNG based method to distribute the reward to the player. The system used for loot distribution is literally an RNG-based system. What the player does after receiving the reward is a separate operation tied in with the Command Crate System.

 

I know you do not wish to revisit this topic, so I will leave it at that. You can view it how ever you wish, and other players can view it how ever they wish.

[phalczen]

Before you open the gear crate, do you know the exact 252 rated item you will receive (without any degree of mistake) from that exact gear crate that you are opening? If not, then, by definition, it is programmed as RNG by design.

 

Its not pure RNG. I know I can choose the category of box: Upper, Lower, and Tech. Those boxes will have one gear piece from among a pre-defined smaller subset of gear slots. Furthermore, I also know that those possibilities will be further restricted by my current discipline. So, instead of one out of 40-some options its one out of a much lower, for example, the Tech box being opened on an advanced class in Heal spec has only five outcomes. Even the rare 252 box from galactic command crates is specific to discipline, though not to gear slot.

 

So, one out of five options, with 175 UC if you don't like the result, isn't too bad. I wish the Lower box didn't have the relics, since there's a lot more possible outcomes there. DPS do fare a little worse on the Upper box because the accuracy implants are part of the loot rolls. I wish ALL disintegrations gave more UCs, and I wish that 252 boxes or Masterwork Data Crystals dropped more often from tier 4 command crates. I wish for those things because #1 I don't think galactic command should have been supplanted the way it was, and #2 it would give people a reason to do something other than Ossus. It has become especially clear in the last 4 months that there is limited value in content outside of Ossus, if you want to improve your character's gear.

[phalczen]

You can view it how ever you wish, and other players can view it how ever they wish.

 

Welcome to 2019, where everything is relative. I mean, I could call a brick a candy bar, but I would still be wrong. That "candy bar" would still hurt if someone threw it at me much more than a Snickers, and potentially lethally so. I would break my teeth upon trying to eat said "candy bar." If I did manage to swallow said "candy bar," at best it would pass through my digestive system in a couple of days and at worst cause a surgical emergency.

 

So yeah, you can view it however you want, but Dasty is obviously correct that the value of the free 252 box from the Weekly can never be lower than 175 unassembled components.

[DNGDangerous]

Its not pure RNG. I know I can choose the category of box: Upper, Lower, and Tech. Those boxes will have one gear piece from among a pre-defined smaller subset of gear slots. Furthermore, I also know that those possibilities will be further restricted by my current discipline. So, instead of one out of 40-some options its one out of a much lower, for example, the Tech box being opened on an advanced class in Heal spec has only five outcomes. Even the rare 252 box from galactic command crates is specific to discipline, though not to gear slot.

 

So, one out of five options, with 175 UC if you don't like the result, isn't too bad. I wish the Lower box didn't have the relics, since there's a lot more possible outcomes there. DPS do fare a little worse on the Upper box because the accuracy implants are part of the loot rolls. I wish ALL disintegrations gave more UCs, and I wish that 252 boxes or Masterwork Data Crystals dropped more often from tier 4 command crates. I wish for those things because #1 I don't think galactic command should have been supplanted the way it was, and #2 it would give people a reason to do something other than Ossus. It has become especially clear in the last 4 months that there is limited value in content outside of Ossus, if you want to improve your character's gear.

 

RNG stands for Random Number Generator. In programming, all Random Number Generators have a set pool of variables. This set pool of variables is not completely random because there is always a finite set of possibilities. This finite set of possibilities could be as low as two different outcomes, or five different out comes, or ten thousand different outcomes.

 

I could go online and download a Random Number Generator program used to simulate rolling dice. I could then choose to roll a D20 as opposed to a D100 percentile, but that choice does not disqualify it from being a Random Number Generator. I could choose to have a D12 outcome, but choose to have it roll between 1-12 or I could choose to have it simulate rolling two D6 making it roll between 2-12. The choice to limit the parameters does not invalidate it’s programing as a Random Number Generator, nor does the fact that there is a finite set of possiblities.

 

Knowing what the minimum result is does not change the fact that in its core, it is still a Random Number Generator.

 

If I cannot predict the exact experimental Ossus equipment I will receive from the loot crate without fail every time I open said crate, within a large sample pool; then by definition, it is using a Random Number Generator to produce the result.

 

What a player does after that reward is generated is a completely different instance.

[Storm-Cutter]

as for the "trading" UCS for needed items or getting the Masterwork Crystals my question is HOW MANY TIMES will I need to kill the same bosses to get the required number of said crystals?

 

this is what is RIDICULOUS in it.

 

Imagine you have a character that is 242 geared. You get 2 MWC per week. You need at least 28 of them to have all 252 items (more or less, cos you still get some items via RNG)

and then you repeat all the show again to get 258 gear.

 

Sorry but NO. No way that I am going to play only 2 or 3 weekly bosses ad nauseam.

 

As for my characters - each of them played the Ossus WBs only once - when they could get the guaranteed piece of gear.

I refuse to play it more - it is extremely BORING!!

 

• Remember any 252 drops you can trade up to 258, so you don' thave to buy them twice over.
  
• You can use mirror or duplicate characters to increase the drop rate
  
• You can use UCs to buy MDCs - at 2 / week / character
  
• You can always do the weekly quests for another MDC - some ( such as the 8 medals in a WZ) are actually pretty easy.
  
• You can do the operations to get a chance of 258 gear drops.
  
• You can buy or craft 258 gear as well.
  You can bypass MH and OH 252s by doing solo Ranked WZ.
  

 

- So actually there are a lot of options. Some might be not to your liking.... but TBH 258 gear isn't many percentage points more powerful than 252.

 

As to it being BORING - all grinds become boring. Some people have a lower threshold. - But BioWare haven't got anything more to offer ATM, so gearing up is a way to keep you in a holding pattern for months until the next chapter is ready. - If you're bored, try taking a rest for a short while.

 

GL.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Storm-Cutter

[DNGDangerous]

You can do the operations to get a chance of 258 gear drops

.

 

This is interesting information; which Ops (and their respective difficulty) are 258 gear drops obtainable?

 

I am going to take a guess and speculate that it’s NiM Gods? (Either way, what ever ops it is, this is good news).

[RikuvonDrake]

This is interesting information; which Ops (and their respective difficulty) are 258 gear drops obtainable?

 

I am going to take a guess and speculate that it’s NiM Gods? (Either way, what ever ops it is, this is good news).

 

There isn't one, the guy you are quoting is trying to mislead you or just misinformed, no current operation drops any 258 tokens. You get a chance to win 252 lockboxes if you do Queen, both SM and HM drops 252 rng boxes (3 on 8man and 6 on 16man).

[mrphstar]

RNG stands for Random Number Generator. In programming, all Random Number Generators have a set pool of variables. This set pool of variables is not completely random because there is always a finite set of possibilities. This finite set of possibilities could be as low as two different outcomes, or five different out comes, or ten thousand different outcomes.

 

I could go online and download a Random Number Generator program used to simulate rolling dice. I could then choose to roll a D20 as opposed to a D100 percentile, but that choice does not disqualify it from being a Random Number Generator. I could choose to have a D12 outcome, but choose to have it roll between 1-12 or I could choose to have it simulate rolling two D6 making it roll between 2-12. The choice to limit the parameters does not invalidate it’s programing as a Random Number Generator, nor does the fact that there is a finite set of possiblities.

 

Knowing what the minimum result is does not change the fact that in its core, it is still a Random Number Generator.

 

If I cannot predict the exact experimental Ossus equipment I will receive from the loot crate without fail every time I open said crate, within a large sample pool; then by definition, it is using a Random Number Generator to produce the result.

 

What a player does after that reward is generated is a completely different instance.

 

as a programmer you should know that there is no real random number generator exactly because of the reasons you brought up. every RNG is limited to the technical enviroment it runs in and is therefor no real rng by definition.

(unless we are talking about TRNG, which is hard to implement, especially into a game).

 

but you can argue about the definition of rng all day long, that still doenst make the gear system rng based, since the alternative (and MAIN) route doesnt depend on RNG at all. you can get exactly 4(5) crystals per week and can buy the gear you want for a consistent price. you are NOT, i repeat: you are not dependent on the outcome of your weekly loot crate to get gear since they arnt the only (and minor) source of gear in 5.10.

 

get that in your head please and enjoy your weekly bonus of atleast 175UCs for doing faceroll content, instead of arguing about topics which do not relate to the actual system.

Edited March 26, 2019 by mrphstar

[BFBHitmarkers]

Questions to ask yourself regarding 252/258 gear..

 

#1 Are you a Nightmare raider?

#2 Are you a ranked PvP'r?

 

If you answered no to those...then why are you in a hurry to get that "content level" gear?

 

If you answered yes, then surely you are gathering UC's to trade in for crystals.

 

Buy 2 crystals

Weekly 1 crystal

WBs 1 crystal

 

4 crystals, 2 pieces of 252 gear = 1 week

14 items, 2 pcs a week = 7 weeks worth of very short, very easy content (wb's, buying crystals, the weekly task).

Now, this isnt figuring in the "OH THE HUMANITY" RNG loot. I think there's been quite a bit of 'discussion' on that topic.

 

Oh, and don't forget the hive queen drops 3 RNG crates and is about a what...under 10 minute (from start to finish) boss?

 

Lastly, if you did answer yes to either of those questions...chances are you have alts/mirror class's.

 

So, to sum up..

 

If you answered yes to both of those questions...You should be in full 252's, on at least 3 characters. Hell, I have 2 that are in full 258 and my game time is quite limited (meaning I work a 40hour work week and am married to an anti-gaming lady).

 

This is the easiest its ever been to get 'NiM Tier" gear...

Enjoy it

Edited March 26, 2019 by BFBHitmarkers

[DNGDangerous]

but you can argue about the definition of rng all day long, that still doenst make the gear system rng based, since the alternative (and MAIN) route doesnt depend on RNG at all. you can get exactly 4(5) crystals per week and can buy the gear you want for a consistent price. you are NOT, i repeat: you are not dependent on the outcome of your weekly loot crate to get gear since they arnt the only (and minor) source of gear in 5.10.

 

get that in your head please and enjoy your weekly bonus of atleast 175UCs for doing faceroll content, instead of arguing about topics which do not relate to the actual system.

 

I think you are mistaking me for someone else. Please re-read my posts. I never said the gear system is RNG based. I have a specific problem with the loot boxes.

 

Get this through your head. There are two main problems I have with gearing via Ossus.

 

1) (main gripe) implementation of loot crates.

2) slot locked mods and enhancements.

 

I did not say that the whole system is based around RNG, and I am not even arguing about that. Re-read my posts.

 

I personally would have preferred BioWare never implemented the weekly quest to obtain the loot crate. Gearing would be slower then it already is, but this is what we got. You probably have not even read my posts. I make these posts, so that BioWare (and EA) stops implementing these features in future content.

 

I have no qualms with the other ways of obtaining, ossus experimental and Masterwork gear. (I wish they added ways to obtain ossus experimental gear to NiM ops, but that’s a personal preference).

[Lhancelot]

I did not say that the whole system is based around RNG, and I am not even arguing about that. Re-read my posts.

 

People read one sentence of your post then assume what the entire post said, that or they just rather misinterpret what you actually wrote to fit some narrative they have in mind that you are representing.

 

The most annoying thing on the forums is this type of interaction when people really aren't trying to understand your point and instead rather create a narrative for you and the point they think you want to make.

[mrphstar]

People read one sentence of your post then assume what the entire post said, that or they just rather misinterpret what you actually wrote to fit some narrative they have in mind that you are representing.

 

The most annoying thing on the forums is this type of interaction when people really aren't trying to understand your point and instead rather create a narrative for you and the point they think you want to make.

 

maybe making someones point clear would help then.

 

why in the world would someone complain about the extra boxes and their RNG if they dont have any problem with how the system works in first place??

whats the point of his argument and replying to Jdasts post then?

just to show us, that he has no clue what RNG really means?

even if i reread it, i still dont get any other intention from it. so sorry for that.

 

the most annoying thing arent poeple not trying to understand your point, its people not having any point arguing for the sake of the argument.

Edited March 26, 2019 by mrphstar

[kodrac]

Before you open the gear crate, do you know the exact 252 rated item you will receive (without any degree of mistake) from that exact gear crate that you are opening? If not, then, by definition, it is programmed as RNG by design.

 

In the end, though, does it really matter? Whether it's an earpiece, gloves or a banana hammock, it's worth the same. Breakdown whatever pops out and be on your way 175 UCs richer.

[KendraP]

Did we really start arguing over what exactly random means?

[TUXs]

In the end, though, does it really matter? Whether it's an earpiece, gloves or a banana hammock, it's worth the same. Breakdown whatever pops out and be on your way 175 UCs richer.

In all fairness, you can never have enough banana hammocks...

[DNGDangerous]

In the end, though, does it really matter? Whether it's an earpiece, gloves or a banana hammock, it's worth the same. Breakdown whatever pops out and be on your way 175 UCs richer.

 

Thank you for asking, and “Yes” it does matter. BioWare is “supposedly” gathering feedback on our views on the current state of gearing. So I am taking this opportunity to express my views.

 

You might be content (you may even prefer the current state of the gearing process; you are completely within your right to do so) with how the current Ossus platform is set up. What ever your stance is; everyone should have a voice, so that BioWare can take the steps necessary towards eventually implementing a system that garners player population growth (as opposed to player population decline).

[kodrac]

Thank you for asking, and “Yes” it does matter. BioWare is “supposedly” gathering feedback on our views on the current state of gearing. So I am taking this opportunity to express my views.

 

I hear you and that's fair. To be honest, when it first launched I was thinking "what the H, RNG again? This sucks", but then I saw the vendor and noticed I could buy the exact pieces for crystals. How do I get crystals? Then I found the NPC that exchanges UCs for crystals. Than I thought "not so bad". I can go back to farming UCs if I get bored of dailies or start getting duplicates. 1000 UCs is a tad steep though. 1500 even more so. Then I saw 252 gear breaks down to 175 UCs which is a lot better than the piddly 3 or 4 I've been getting from crates. You don't even have to do the mirror alt method people have suggested. You can run any alt through the dailies and breakdown the weekly 252 into UCs and throw them into the legacy bank.

 

So all in all it's not too bad of a system. It was implemented poorly in typical BW fashion: contrived with no communication and no explanations that made players come to their own conclusions, that are still being debated rightly or wrongly, which could've been avoided had they done even the bare minimum in communication. 1000 UCs is steep, especially for someone like me who doesn't log in as often anymore, but not insurmountable; there's no mod or enhancement vendor for tanks and tinkering with stats; and the slot locking is the very definition of retarded:

• to delay or impede the development or progress of : to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment
  

 

Other than those three faults, I'm not too fussed.

Edited March 26, 2019 by kodrac

[DNGDangerous]

Other than those three faults, I'm not too fussed.

 

I hope that BioWare acknowledges these concerns at their next Cantina Event (which, someone correct me if I am wrong) during Star Wars Celebration 2019.

[TUXs]

I hope that BioWare acknowledges these concerns at their next Cantina Event (which, someone correct me if I am wrong) during Star Wars Celebration 2019.

I won't correct you, because you're not wrong...but I will confirm what you've stated

[Jdast]

maybe making someones point clear would help then.

 

why in the world would someone complain about the extra boxes and their RNG if they dont have any problem with how the system works in first place??

whats the point of his argument and replying to Jdasts post then?

just to show us, that he has no clue what RNG really means?

even if i reread it, i still dont get any other intention from it. so sorry for that.

 

the most annoying thing arent poeple not trying to understand your point, its people not having any point arguing for the sake of the argument.

 

Exactly.

 

For some reason, some people are also not internalizing the law of unintended consequences. Some people seem to have a phobia about opening a box which provides a binary reward, which is their prerogative -- but it misses the point...

 

If Bioware did away with loot boxes they would, naturally, lower the base rate of reward consistency. Why? Because they need to keep people playing. People can choose their poison.

 

With that said, the entire premise of this thread was that gearing was too slow because of the possibility of getting a duplicate on the Ossus Weekly / Complete 10 Daily quest.

 

I believe you, me and others have quashed that argument.

 

I have issues with 5.10 and its relationship to GC, but gearing is unequivocally FASTER now in comparison to even 5.6 and certainly 5.0.

 

<<thank the stars there is more Chopin left while I slip my Hutt body into a polka-dotted banana hammock>>

 

Dasty

Edited March 26, 2019 by Jdast

[TrixxieTriss]

As someone who is always extremely unlucky with RNG or drop rates, I fully understand the OPs plight.

I went through most of the CXP loot box system without getting any yellow drops and when I did, they were nearly always things I already had. That meant 90% of my gearing was purely through UCs and it’s why I had much less UCs stock piled than some people who had 50-100k. I still didn’t get 1 Alt fully geared in all 248 and 236 Augments before this new system dropped and I was doing a fair bit of pvp.

 

The difference is, this system is worse for pure pvpers. At least if you got a duplicate yellow piece, you could either swap it out or upgrade it easier (cheaper) to the next lvl. You can’t do that under this system. You are also partially speed gated behind the crystal system.

 

Unless you play a tonne of pvp, you won’t have enough UCs to get more than 1-2 crystals per week because the prices for crystals after the first are 1000. Maybe if they were 500 UCs it wouldn’t be as bad for many people and it would allow people who dont have as much time to pvp as some others, to gear up faster.

 

RNG boxes should only be a crutch, not a main way to gear. The system should be less reliant on RNG and have a more reliable and faster way to gear. It should also not be gated.

 

The only people who don’t mind RNG are those that get the drops they need most of the time. I can see their point of view because for them, it’s not a major hurdle. But for people who always have bad luck with RNG, it’s extremely annoying when people say how it doesn’t matter or how they can gear up so fast.

 

The majority of players who geared up fast, already had a massive stock pile of UCs, had the time and inclination to continuously grind pve content on multiple Alts and were lucky with the RNG. A lot of those people are also only trying to gear one Alt at a time and not all of the mulple ones they use to grind.

 

The gear system is a big problem for me because I want all my Alts to be geared at the same time. I like to switch between most of them when I play pvp. I also dislike pve content because it’s stupidly easy and boring after I’ve done it a few times. I’m certainly not going to grind dailies and weeklies on mulple Alts to gear up one.

Making us grind pve stuff to get get gear to pvp is ludicrous. It removes people from pvp and makes the queues pop slower and with less variety of people. Ie, you often get the same people every other match.

 

It also eats into people’s limited play time. If I’ve got 2 hours of play time, I don’t want to spend half of that playing pve stuff when all I want to do is pvp. It makes logging into the game less enjoyable. If you aren’t enjoying yourself when you login, then you stop logging in.

 

I would love to see Bioware’s metrics on how many people have unsubbed over this gear grinding system and lack of content.

When you unsub, there is a small questionare that asks why you are unsubbing. I wonder if the dev team even get to read it.

Edited March 26, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[olagatonjedi]

It's annoying. There is one quest where you get a device and can not even choose it.

Perspective. Before 5.10, there were ZERO quests that gave you a random 252 piece.

[olagatonjedi]

While I do find the RNG boxes annoying, to me they are just a way to farm UCs. Most of my (played) toons have 252 gear, several are at 254-256. That said, I think the UC / Crystal ratio is too high, and the weekly limit too low. Ossus is noticeably dead-er lately, and I think there are two reasons: 1) ppl who farmed it seriously are fully geared and burned out / moved on to HQ Vet 2) ppl who farm it casually are burned out

 

More incentive is important. Bioware seems to be fixated on stingy gear progression, and I agree that gear too easily acquired is no fun, but I can't think of a single person I've heard from that thinks the current pace is beneficial to players or to the game.

 

Can you imagine how active Ossus would again be if devs announced improvements to the UC per crystal price? And, heaven forfend ... increase in crystals per week? My suggestion would be to eliminate the RNG box and substitute it with a crystal weekly for completing 10 dailies.

 

And how about if they made the drops in Hive Queen SM actual gear pieces (not RNG boxes) that could be either rolled for or bid on? So you could participate in getting gear you need, or get a share of the credits if you don't? Right now there's little or no incentive to run HQ SM for anyone with all 252 gear, the roll chances are too low to bother for a once per week per toon run.

 

Oh in case I forgot to mention it... EVERYBODY HATES RNG BOXES. I know... maybe gambling addicts, but I'm pretty sure they're playing something else right now. I can't think of a single game I've played where RNG boxes were spoken of fondly. I know, it's subtle and really really hard to tell reading these forums or in-game chat, but there you have it. You can thank me later Fully expecting more RNG boxes in '6.0' btw

The balance they have in place is for a multitude of obvious reasons. The biggest two reasons are longevity and integrity of the WBs they added. If they provide too many alternative, guaranteed ways to get either specific set pieces OR more crystals, less people will log in to do the new WBs. Someone mentioned its been 15 weeks since 5.10 (not sure the accuracy), but I DO know that come tuesday, even today, there were dozens of WB runs still going, which is a credit to the dev team for making the fights retain their importance (for the crystal), and therefore retaining the player interest in completing them, but not making them impossible or lengthy endeavors. THAT is great design.