Assassin - Are we terrible?

[Kamkaze]

I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. It seems to me like my assassin character is extremely fragile and really doesn't do any burst compared to other classes. Every time I get into a 1v1 fight with a "Strong" enemy, Ill get destroyed and don't have any survivability to stay in the fight. If I fight a stronger "Elite" enemy, Khem gets destroyed and then I get destroyed. If I don't have Khem, I would die every pull with a Strong + 1 pull, which completely removes the ability to play with other companions, and goodbye RPG aspect.

 

I'm level 38 Madness spec, Khem and I are both kept up-to-date as far as gear. I just feel like I don't have any tools aside from Force Cloak, which means I have to do it again, and am trying to see if other higher lvl assassin have this problem, and some advice.

 

And I know a Marauder is the brawler class, but this class feels nothing like a rogue, not quick burst or anything.

 

Edit: Just to add, our story seems really REALLY lacking compared to the warrior... We can't even turn our apprentice dark side but the warrior gets to seduce and corrupt every other person they talk to...

Edited December 29, 2011 by Kamkaze

[XParoleX]

About 6 post down there is the exact same thread with explanations. Maybe you should read it instead of starting a new post.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72444

[Kamkaze]

A post filled with lvl 15's responses and people talking from Beta who don't play assassins...

 

I was hoping from some higher level players who are actually playing assassins opinions. That post was pretty much flame-bait =)

 

But thanks for being helpful, big ups.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Kamkaze

[ZtruK]

Na we are not terrible at all. I can't speak at all for Madness though. I've been leveling as Deception and can kill full blown yellow elites even +1 with not too much problem.

 

You need to be able to swap agro with Khem. I'm 34 and you are higher so you should have both taunts (mind control and mass mind control or whatever). Usually you only need the single target one. Let Khem get down to about 15% then hit that and keep agro. Usually you can down an elite in that time.

 

For the adds, make use of your your Mind Trap ability to CC one. Usually the hardest one and finish the little guys first then wait for full force and start on the harder one. Of course save electrocute for the hard guys and don't forget your 20min cool down for the especially tough fights (world quest bosses etc). In situations where you need mind trap make sure you manually turn off Khem's 2 aoe abilities or he will break your CCed target. One of them annoyingly resets every time you get on your Rascal or zone or whatever.

 

Lately I've been using Andro in DPS mode to kill elites as well. I sick him on the mob, let him run a full round of abilities, by then he's probaly at about 50% health and you start in on the mob. When he gets down to 10% Mind Control and you should hold agro for the rest of the time, use your 50% defense buff and Andros DPS is so high that you will easily down the mob before you die.

[theonepanda]

Light armor melee does make it seem like we suck.

 

I actually am amazed yall can level as the dps specs.

 

I just derp around in my darkness/madness with essentially heavy armor, and golds and silvers fall over with ease!

 

I think you should try out darkness if you're dying as a paper thin melee class.

 

I believe rogues had similar problems in WoW, but WoW's PvE is a joke and this is much harder, so the problem is accentuated.

[Kamkaze]

Is darkness able to kill **** effectively? I wasn't sure if the missing DPS would be made up with companions or if they are screwed for solo questing.

[Sentient_Six]

I haven't run into a single problem with my Darkness Assassin. I am very hard to kill and deal more than enough damage to handle all single player content (and even some group content) myself. I also tank efficiently in group content such as Heroics and Flashpoints, and have been top of the list in terms of Objectives and Commendations in every Warzone I've played.

 

Currently I am lvl 45.

[XParoleX]

A post filled with lvl 15's responses and people talking from Beta who don't play assassins...

 

I was hoping from some higher level players who are actually playing assassins opinions. That post was pretty much flame-bait =)

 

But thanks for being helpful, big ups.

 

I apologize I took your post to be another flame thread starter. I didn't realize your were looking for constructive advise.

[defilerr]

I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. It seems to me like my assassin character is extremely fragile and really doesn't do any burst compared to other classes. Every time I get into a 1v1 fight with a "Strong" enemy, Ill get destroyed and don't have any survivability to stay in the fight. If I fight a stronger "Elite" enemy, Khem gets destroyed and then I get destroyed. If I don't have Khem, I would die every pull with a Strong + 1 pull, which completely removes the ability to play with other companions, and goodbye RPG aspect.

 

I'm level 38 Madness spec, Khem and I are both kept up-to-date as far as gear. I just feel like I don't have any tools aside from Force Cloak, which means I have to do it again, and am trying to see if other higher lvl assassin have this problem, and some advice.

 

And I know a Marauder is the brawler class, but this class feels nothing like a rogue, not quick burst or anything.

 

Edit: Just to add, our story seems really REALLY lacking compared to the warrior... We can't even turn our apprentice dark side but the warrior gets to seduce and corrupt every other person they talk to...

 

ok, first of you have to realize you are not a rogue. the rogue abilities and playstyle you had in other games dont apply so much to our class. i said this earlier in the forum but hopefully after reading this youll gain some insight into a new way of playing your assassin. first off, your not a tank (if your deception) so dont fight like one. use all of your cc and stun abilities to position your targets where you want them, then hammer them a bit and move out. i will position behind an elite target activate all my (trinket cooldowns) maul him, and pound him as fast as possible until he turns around, then i posture him down with low slash, get behind him maul, pound more until he turns again. then i will shock him, go behind him maul him some more, until i have no more (freeze) cooldowns. then i use my defensive abilities, maybe switch my saber charge to dark charge until i can (freeze) him in place, move out a little, recover and repeat. remember you can use force speed and get away from him so it takes him longer to get back at you. you dont need to stand there and exchange punches, this isnt finesse. you need to master your abilities and control your opponent. i learned fighting elites from doing pvp.....huttball will make you the master of killing elites. remember, dont stand and fight face to face....CONTROL...

 

your going to hear alot of lower level guys complain about.....man my companions are terrible....we die to much...its to hard...

 

thats because they dont know how to play their class...like the poster said above, swap aggro if your using a tank...if your using your healer, make sure he is set to (heal) and not dps...its an option in your companion toolbar. make sure you are ccing what you can before the fight and killing the low HP ones first to keep them off your companion.

 

When in doubt....vanish out....

Edited December 29, 2011 by defilerr

[Xanavi]

A post filled with lvl 15's responses and people talking from Beta who don't play assassins...

 

I was hoping from some higher level players who are actually playing assassins opinions. That post was pretty much flame-bait =)

 

But thanks for being helpful, big ups.

 

Since you want a higher lvl to chime in, I will. I currently run a lvl 46 Assassin that is spec'd hybrid darkness / madness. I can tell you that you are playing the class wrong. Not trying to be mean, but considering I solo all the 2+ heroics and tank plenty fine in Flashpoints, I don't see the issue. With that said, lets try to help you. Have you tried to use your healing companion? R2-V8 (Ship Droid) is a healer. He will do no damage with you, but with gear, he will heal you no porblem. Also, have you used any form of CC? You have Mind Trap that is a 1 minute CC ability. You also have Jolt, (all-be-it for 4 secs) and Whirlwind (for 8 secs). I personally leved straight darkness ("crappy" tank spec per you in the other thread) til lvl 40 with Khem most of the time and had no issues. Did I have to use cooldowns? Sometimes, sure. But I had no issues. Link your spec and rotation and I'll do what I can to help you.

[Angina]

Every time I get into a 1v1 fight with a "Strong" enemy, Ill get destroyed and don't have any survivability to stay in the fight. If I fight a stronger "Elite" enemy, Khem gets destroyed and then I get destroyed. If I don't have Khem, I would die every pull with a Strong + 1 pull, which completely removes the ability to play with other companions, and goodbye RPG aspect.

 

 

 

And I know a Marauder is the brawler class, but this class feels nothing like a rogue, not quick burst or anything.

 

 

I'm a level 37 madness....the only time I struggled in the game against anything is when my gear fell behind. You really have to keep Khem geared (and yourself) that means getting implants, ear buds, commendation gear for you AND Khem when able. I struggled in the late 20's until I went and pimped out Khem and rolled through content. Also make sure that you have the appropriate abilities turn on or off on Khem, he gets new abilities (like a survival CD on 2 min CD) and make sure he's in his survival stance if you have him tanking.

 

We aren't a rogue class at all, we are more an enchancement shaman mixed with shadow priest with stealth. Our burst comes more like an enchancment shaman did, stack your dot then use melee abilities to burst. If you want to play a real rogue type class that's the IA class.

[Kamkaze]

I don't think I called Darkness crappy anywhere....

 

As for a healer, I used the second healer we get, unfortunately I die against an elite or 2 strong mobs regardless.

 

I am using every stun I can (electrocute and I believe that's the only one against elites and strong, since shock doesn't stun them), elites still crush me 1v1.

 

I do like the taunt+deflect idea, thank you for that!

[defilerr]

I don't think I called Darkness crappy anywhere....

 

As for a healer, I used the second healer we get, unfortunately I die against an elite or 2 strong mobs regardless.

 

I am using every stun I can (electrocute and I believe that's the only one against elites and strong, since shock doesn't stun them), elites still crush me 1v1.

 

I do like the taunt+deflect idea, thank you for that!

 

keep them off your healer and run around. cc the first one, kill the second one. and kite him around while you kill him. your second healer can deffinatley heal you up while your away from the mob.

[Kamkaze]

Another question!

 

For gear, do you guys take the heavy willpower, heavy Endurance, or try and balance em out?

 

As madness at 39, I'm at 668 Willpower and 661 Endurance.

[CkMobster]

Na we are not terrible at all. I can't speak at all for Madness though. I've been leveling as Deception and can kill full blown yellow elites even +1 with not too much problem.

 

You need to be able to swap agro with Khem. I'm 34 and you are higher so you should have both taunts (mind control and mass mind control or whatever). Usually you only need the single target one. Let Khem get down to about 15% then hit that and keep agro. Usually you can down an elite in that time.

 

For the adds, make use of your your Mind Trap ability to CC one. Usually the hardest one and finish the little guys first then wait for full force and start on the harder one. Of course save electrocute for the hard guys and don't forget your 20min cool down for the especially tough fights (world quest bosses etc). In situations where you need mind trap make sure you manually turn off Khem's 2 aoe abilities or he will break your CCed target. One of them annoyingly resets every time you get on your Rascal or zone or whatever.

 

Lately I've been using Andro in DPS mode to kill elites as well. I sick him on the mob, let him run a full round of abilities, by then he's probaly at about 50% health and you start in on the mob. When he gets down to 10% Mind Control and you should hold agro for the rest of the time, use your 50% defense buff and Andros DPS is so high that you will easily down the mob before you die.

 

 

 

isn't it amazing what a little common sense and using your class abilities does?

 

if you are leveling deception Khem and Ashara seem like the only questable companions you can roll with and Ashara only if you aren't fighting a gold mob. make use of your def. cooldowns(they have a very short timer) and your cc abilities(mind trap, shock, low blow). And you should be fine. If you have biochem it's very beneficial to get a reusable force adrenal as that gives you 2 50% reduction cooldowns which reduces down time and makes things easier. Will you die? yes but you shouldn't feel underpowered, only challenged.

Edited December 29, 2011 by CkMobster

[Xanavi]

Depends on spec. For my hybrid, I run more End then Will currently. With my gear I am around 14k health with plenty of survivability to withstand most things. This really is a class more about using ALL your abilities compared to the other AC's in the game. As my BH, I roll thru everything without thinking. As my SI, I have to think about what I am going to do and when. Kiting is key if you are running a non-tank spec. As others have pointed out, you were not made to go toe-to-toe 1v1 head on. Taunting is a very good trick as others have said. When I ran Khem, I found if you taunted, he would immediatly taunt back so make sure you watch if that happens. No point in taunting the mob off if he just taunts back and dies. Also, you can usually get a feeling for the fight at about the 75%health lvl for you. If you see how much incoming damage you are taking, use your CD's as needed.

[ZtruK]

Does Force Slow work on golds? For some reason I've only used that in PvP so far. If it does.. I'd imagine anything would be a cakewalk with enough room with Andro and just kiting with Force Slow/Speed and the two taunts.

[Xanavi]

Does Force Slow work on golds? For some reason I've only used that in PvP so far. If it does.. I'd imagine anything would be a cakewalk with enough room with Andro and just kiting with Force Slow/Speed and the two taunts.

 

Never tried honestly. Lol. Due to being a tank, I rarely need to kite. I'll attempt shortly and post the results. I know you can use other forms of CC on most of them so I'd assume yes. Let me test it and I'll respond.

[alement]

To me, the Assassin is the most versatile class in the game, and it wouldn't shock me one bit if the Sin was the first to get nerfed.

 

Did you read the guide/codex? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=778

 

Don't know - I've heard more complaints out of Marauders than any other class. I love my assassin, and can usually rank in the top 4 in PvP warzones.

[CkMobster]

Does Force Slow work on golds? For some reason I've only used that in PvP so far. If it does.. I'd imagine anything would be a cakewalk with enough room with Andro and just kiting with Force Slow/Speed and the two taunts.

 

except a lot of golds are ranged droids or trooper types which means it's not too useful and your combined damage(if you are doing it properly) will be more efficient than trying to kite.

 

 

 

im currently 42 and have never felt "underpowered" although i have only leveled deception(which is stated as the best leveling tree) so you may want to check your talents and see if you can go more hybrid style builds to increase dps and/or survivability.

[ZtruK]

except a lot of golds are ranged droids or trooper types which means it's not too useful and your combined damage(if you are doing it properly) will be more efficient than trying to kite.

 

True.. not useful aside from the melee only ones like those lizards and junk.

[Hethroin]

except a lot of golds are ranged droids or trooper types which means it's not too useful and your combined damage(if you are doing it properly) will be more efficient than trying to kite.

 

Ranged golds should be no problem what-so-ever.

 

Between punt, stun, and jolt you can stop their heavy hits till they get into assassinate range.

[Xanavi]

except a lot of golds are ranged droids or trooper types which means it's not too useful and your combined damage(if you are doing it properly) will be more efficient than trying to kite.

 

Very valid point. With that said, on the two elites I just killed, it works.

[Invitcted]

Another question!

 

For gear, do you guys take the heavy willpower, heavy Endurance, or try and balance em out?

 

As madness at 39, I'm at 668 Willpower and 661 Endurance.

 

Well now it sounds like a gear issue, I'm 38 (about a quarter off 39) and I have 150+ more of both stats then you. I've been slowly introducing orange gear to my toon and using quest rewards to get mods for them rather then using questing greens are you doing this?

[Seksi]

I must confess after respecing to full Darkness today I am doing much better.