Nerf HM Queen??

[Karameck]

entitled much?

No, and honestly not sure what made you think so. I have a feeling you misunderstood what was written.

[HohoYolo]

The queen is fine where she is. She drops mats to create 258 gear, 252 loot boxes and crystal.

Gear is ment to be earned not given.

If you cant kill her then improve as a player and earn the kill.

Also if you arent planing to be a NiM raider you trying to get this gear is pointless. The point of 258 gear is to help you do NiM content more effective Even though all NiM content can be cleared with 248 gear besides Gods. Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo if your crying about a nerf you just want the game the be more accessible than it already is ruining the point of a challenge and reward it is killing something worth trying to kill.

[Dreadystoffe]

Ahh yes! Those achievements mean the player knows the fight.....

 

Someone was saying.....

 

Not really what i said tho..read again plx

All i said was that it shows he have been there and killed the boss but no it doesn't automatically mean you knows the fight properly... but it is one of the few things you can actually go on when making a group with people you do not know.

[HohoYolo]

I used to remember a point in time when MMOS were actually hard and god dam the rewards felt good........... now a days even my 2 year kid can get 258 gear if they wanted.

Getting End game content with out effort/work is just stupid. Sure people dont have time or just cant do it and that is fine. That is like saying everyone should be a millionaire but isnt. If everyone was a big money baller who would be the ones working for them to keep the ball rolling. (My point exactly)

Not everyone will be meant to clear certain content and that is fine. Look at wow for example and the Colossal mess that game is. Its raiding community is in shambles, **** is so accessible earning gear has lost its meaning. Game has gone so bad that it is a in game Las Vegas Theme park.

Accessibility does not mean good. Making the game easier is fine but down right just handing people free gear just because you cant clear a certain part of the game is just wrong. Earn your keep to get gear dont cry about being to hard because you either refuse to improve or too lazy. it is bad enough that they made the parts of the 258 gear a joke to get.

Edited February 21, 2019 by HohoYolo

[TrixxieTriss]

The 258mhs is only needed for nim gods, nothing else. if you need it for something outside outside of gods sounds like you need to l2p, simple as that.

 

That is simply not true. Pvpers need access to it as well.

[HohoYolo]

That is simply not true. Pvpers need access to it as well.

I mean they did give an option for Pvpers to get it by and lets be fair the PVPers that want it already can get it and got it. LETS say some pvpers cant get it it is 100% most likely they arent ranked pvpers. If they arent ranked pvpers then they dont need it. Quite simple.

[TrixxieTriss]

VM Queen does not need nerfed.

 

The problem is that SM is so incredibly easy that no one has had to learn any mechanics to beat it. You can literally roll your face across the keyboard hitting random buttons and beat SM Queen.

 

Even SM Soa is more difficult than this boss. I hope the devs tweak SM to make certain mechanics required, like egg smashing.

 

That’s been the situation through the whole game since they added the SM bot in the Revan Flash points.

 

BioWare have continued to dumb down most of the game so that it’s face roll easy. Then when there is something a bit harder, players don’t have the skills to do it and they call for nerfs.

Then they get the nerfs and make the more challenging content super easy too.

 

Remember when you had to have a 4 man group to do a 4 man heroic? Or do a flash point?

Remember when you needed to learn your classes rotation and DCDs to kill everyday pve mobs?

Remember when you had to actually care about gearing as you lvl’d or had to do planetary arcs to be the right lvl for the next planet?

Now you can just AOE spam your way through most of the game, especially the vanilla part.

 

Dumbing down the whole game to accelerate lvling to end game has become the cancer many of us said it would. Now the players aren’t prepared properly for when they reach end game and you can’t really blame them for asking for nerfs because BioWare have set the expectation for it to be super easy.

Then they put rewards everyone wants behind this harder content and people get angry at them. BioWare have set up the majority of players to fail because they dumbed down everything.

 

I get that some people want the story only and I get that some people don’t want to lvl slowly or learn how to play their classes properly. But BioWare should never have made the whole game like that. They should have kept the vanilla part of the game like it was and added an “easy” mode or “story” mode with lvl sync instead of changing the old system into one super easy mode. It would have been better to have both systems, side by side.

 

And don’t even get me started on how 5.0 has killed lowbie and Mids pvp which has degraded the quality of end game pvp even more than it was with just dumbing down the pve content.

Edited February 21, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[bentheten]

lol

 

A friend of mine was asking for GSF carries for sale the other day. Do you do those too? Might be lucrative.

 

haha no we would be the ones that needed a GSF carrie

[TrixxieTriss]

I mean they did give an option for Pvpers to get it by and lets be fair the PVPers that want it already can get it and got it. LETS say some pvpers cant get it it is 100% most likely they arent ranked pvpers. If they arent ranked pvpers then they dont need it. Quite simple.

 

That’s also not true. How can pvpers obtain a 258 MHW in pvp or even the 252 in pvp?

 

As for you idea that only ranked players need 258, you are dead wrong. The majority of ranked players also play regs. Which means they not only have a skill advantage, but will also have a gear advantage that non ranked players can’t get.

 

If you allow the best gear in reg pvp, it must be as easily available to the whole pvp community. That also means that if pve raiders who also pvp can get 258 weapons and bring them into pvp, then ALL pvpers need a way of obtaining them through pvp only.

I think this is something many non pvpers or HM raider don’t understand,

[HohoYolo]

That’s also not true. How can pvpers obtain a 258 MHW in pvp or even the 252 in pvp?

 

As for you idea that only ranked players need 258, you are dead wrong. The majority of ranked players also play regs. Which means they not only have a skill advantage, but will also have a gear advantage that non ranked players can’t get.

 

If you allow the best gear in reg pvp, it must be as easily available to the whole pvp community. That also means that if pve raiders who also pvp can get 258 weapons and bring them into pvp, then ALL pvpers need a way of obtaining them through pvp only.

I think this is something many non pvpers or HM raider don’t understand,

 

Yeeee no. And I mean If you look at the Master work crystal requirement 50 Grouped Ranked to get 1 crystal and the weekly mission. Plus the Purple components you get from pvp. So 4 crystals 1 week. 8 crystals two weeks which is more than enough to get your 258 main hand which costs 7 crystals and Two monumental. Also the Stat different between 252 and 258 is a joke at best. Most people in pvp just get rekt because the lack of skill not because herp derp gear. Everyone has a way to get the gear just if choose to get it or not.

[Rion_Starkiller]

haha no we would be the ones that needed a GSF carrie

 

Haha, those GSF guys are sitting on a gold mine and don't even know it

 

That’s been the situation through the whole game since they added the SM bot in the Revan Flash points.

 

BioWare have continued to dumb down most of the game so that it’s face roll easy. Then when there is something a bit harder, players don’t have the skills to do it and they call for nerfs.

Then they get the nerfs and make the more challenging content super easy too.

 

Remember when you had to have a 4 man group to do a 4 man heroic? Or do a flash point?

Remember when you needed to learn your classes rotation and DCDs to kill everyday pve mobs?

Remember when you had to actually care about gearing as you lvl’d or had to do planetary arcs to be the right lvl for the next planet?

Now you can just AOE spam your way through most of the game, especially the vanilla part.

 

Dumbing down the whole game to accelerate lvling to end game has become the cancer many of us said it would. Now the players aren’t prepared properly for when they reach end game and you can’t really blame them for asking for nerfs because BioWare have set the expectation for it to be super easy.

Then they put rewards everyone wants behind this harder content and people get angry at them. BioWare have set up the majority of players to fail because they dumbed down everything.

 

I get that some people want the story only and I get that some people don’t want to lvl slowly or learn how to play their classes properly. But BioWare should never have made the whole game like that. They should have kept the vanilla part of the game like it was and added an “easy” mode or “story” mode with lvl sync instead of changing the old system into one super easy mode. It would have been better to have both systems, side by side.

 

And don’t even get me started on how 5.0 has killed lowbie and Mids pvp which has degraded the quality of end game pvp even more than it was with just dumbing down the pve content.

 

Yep. Preaching to the choir here, Trix.

 

As for those old H4's, I used to solo a couple of the Voss heroics with my comp back in the day, for practice. I would usually have to stealth out during each mob pull. Good times

Edited February 21, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[TrixxieTriss]

Yeeee no. And I mean If you look at the Master work crystal requirement 50 Grouped Ranked to get 1 crystal and the weekly mission. Plus the Purple components you get from pvp. So 4 crystals 1 week. 8 crystals two weeks which is more than enough to get your 258 main hand which costs 7 crystals and Two monumental. Also the Stat different between 252 and 258 is a joke at best. Most people in pvp just get rekt because the lack of skill not because herp derp gear. Everyone has a way to get the gear just if choose to get it or not.

 

You still don’t get it. You have to do pve stuff to get it.

 

I can also tell you aren’t a pvper. If you were, you would understand. So please don’t try speaking for us.

[olagatonjedi]

Not really what i said tho..read again plx

All i said was that it shows he have been there and killed the boss but no it doesn't automatically mean you knows the fight properly... but it is one of the few things you can actually go on when making a group with people you do not know.

I get it. I honestly do. But there is a flipside to this method of exclusivism, in that you cant come back to the forums down the road and complain when there are fewer and fewer people willing to run HM/NIM ops because the groundwork has been set that many easily-capable players arent willing to help other players acquire these achievements either (not by carried means, either). Every action has a consequence even if its unintended.

[olagatonjedi]

You still don’t get it. You have to do pve stuff to get it.

 

I can also tell you aren’t a pvper. If you were, you would understand. So please don’t try speaking for us.

You dont have to do PvE to get any of the 252/258 gear. Where are you concluding that from?

Edited February 21, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[soo-low]

tbh i'd like to see it buffed, 8m at least. For the people that this fight was made for to give the mhs are able to clear it, so this fight has met its goal. The 258mhs is only needed for nim gods, nothing else. if you need it for something outside outside of gods sounds like you need to l2p, simple as that.

 

pvp 4s, if one team has it and one doesnt, there is an imbalance

[ForfiniteStories]

Just like the droid on Ossus, the Queen is over-tuned (on HM), at least in 16-person. It's not even challenging when people die left right and center as soon as the fight begins for no discernible reason; it's just stupid.

 

That’s not elitism... asking for chevs is standard practise for most pugs our side of sm these days.

 

It actually is elitism. Someone's achievement count is not an indication of how good they are, as most players, while being exceptionally good at the game, are without others to raid with. If hardcore raiderps don't bring in people because of their achievement count or lack thereof, then the community is never going to grow.

Edited February 22, 2019 by ForfiniteStories

[mrphstar]

Just like the droid on Ossus, the Queen is over-tuned (on HM), at least in 16-person. It's not even challenging when people die left right and center as soon as the fight begins for no discernible reason; it's just stupid.

 

 

 

It actually is elitism. Someone's achievement count is not an indication of how good they are, as most players, while being exceptionally good at the game, are without others to raid with. If hardcore raiderps don't bring in people because of their achievement count or lack thereof, then the community is never going to grow.

 

just because YOU(and many others) dont see/know the reason for them dieing, doesnt mean there is none.

the droid WB can be easily done without any death if all people know the mechanics. problem is, most people dont even care about them since you can brute force the droid anyway.

 

every group i've been in, i tried to tell people that the boss HAS to be kept out of destroyed canister voids in order to prevend him from building "shield stacks" and go in untauntable rage mode. (to be fair: some of the voids are invisible, cuz of a bug, but you can still se him stack his shield buff as a warning).

that buff is the most common reason for people to die: he gets 6 stacks, has a huge aoe damage on melee range around him, walks around and can refill while imun to taunts and the next cast will hit the group, and more importantly more canisters, causing more voids to overheat him again and again.

that means you dont destroy canisters near him in first place. his incendiary cast is easily avoidable with DCDs or simply running out of it. therefor you dont need to prevent him from refilling. some listened and we had a death free try, but many didnt want to.

 

anyway: same goes for the queen. you have to understand why you die and know how to prevent it. stun lock at guards to avoid the one shot i.e. and you gotta learn proirity of targets etc.

 

but in reward you get the best MH/OH there is. so stop asking for nerfs if you are to lazy to learn your class and basic mechanics like hard stuns.

[ivanhedgehog]

I used to remember a point in time when MMOS were actually hard and god dam the rewards felt good........... now a days even my 2 year kid can get 258 gear if they wanted.

Getting End game content with out effort/work is just stupid. Sure people dont have time or just cant do it and that is fine. That is like saying everyone should be a millionaire but isnt. If everyone was a big money baller who would be the ones working for them to keep the ball rolling. (My point exactly)

Not everyone will be meant to clear certain content and that is fine. Look at wow for example and the Colossal mess that game is. Its raiding community is in shambles, **** is so accessible earning gear has lost its meaning. Game has gone so bad that it is a in game Las Vegas Theme park.

Accessibility does not mean good. Making the game easier is fine but down right just handing people free gear just because you cant clear a certain part of the game is just wrong. Earn your keep to get gear dont cry about being to hard because you either refuse to improve or too lazy. it is bad enough that they made the parts of the 258 gear a joke to get.

 

You know what changed? the understanding that neckbeards living in moms basement were only a tiny fraction of the money they could earn if they appealed to a much larger player base. Wildstar was a game written for the nim raider harcore group. but it is gone because they couldnt or wouldnt financially support it. The next time BW wants to waste a summer and nerf everyone, they will be doing it based on the performance of 258 gear(or whatever they have gotten to at that point). If you are still rocking 248 you will be out of luck. As it stands, if you arent trying to get 258 you might as well unsub, because currently Swtor isnt being written for you in the slightest. Keiths raid group should be happy with it, hope that is ok with EAs shareholders.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just like the droid on Ossus, the Queen is over-tuned (on HM), at least in 16-person. It's not even challenging when people die left right and center as soon as the fight begins for no discernible reason; it's just stupid.

 

It actually is elitism. Someone's achievement count is not an indication of how good they are, as most players, while being exceptionally good at the game, are without others to raid with. If hardcore raiderps don't bring in people because of their achievement count or lack thereof, then the community is never going to grow.

 

The other point that many of these elite people don’t understand is “how are you supposed to get the achievement” if no one will let you join without it?

 

Achievements aren’t always a good way to gauge a players skill lvl. It’s certainly not in pvp and I know many years ago it wasn’t when I wanted to join in with some raids.

 

Even my own guild wouldn’t let me join at first because they considered me “only a pvper” and wouldn’t have the skills (). Eventually they let me join after they couldn’t get a person one night. After that they use to pester me to be part of their main progression team. But raiding is usually boring for me. Once you know the mechanics and how to move (YouTube is your friend), it becomes relatively easy if you know your class and your own group has a clue about theirs and you all have gear. The only time it’s hard is when the raid is over tuned or the gear requirement is really high and not everyone has that. It’s why raiders grind and wipe to get the better gear to make it easier.

 

I know some people love raiding and repetitively doing them. But they are scripted fights and if everyone does the right thing at the right time, the fights are always the same. Thats boring for me after I’ve done it a couple of times. Pvp is more dynamic and every match is different. Nothing is scripted (including spamming the same “perfect rotations”) and you must use you brains to adapted as well as know your class.

 

My skills in playing raids don’t come close to representing the achievements Ive not recorded in the game, especially as I’ve two accounts and I only use one now and I’ve done no raids on it.

People that ask for them to gauge how good a person is are elitists IMO.

Edited February 22, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Predatism]

That’s also not true. How can pvpers obtain a 258 MHW in pvp or even the 252 in pvp?

 

As for you idea that only ranked players need 258, you are dead wrong. The majority of ranked players also play regs. Which means they not only have a skill advantage, but will also have a gear advantage that non ranked players can’t get.

 

If you allow the best gear in reg pvp, it must be as easily available to the whole pvp community. That also means that if pve raiders who also pvp can get 258 weapons and bring them into pvp, then ALL pvpers need a way of obtaining them through pvp only.

I think this is something many non pvpers or HM raider don’t understand,

 

If you are an old player you could look back into 2012-2014 when to acquire the best PvP equipment like Elite War Hero, Obroan and even Firebrand shells you'd have to play ranked warzones and earn Ranked Warzone Commendations. Unlikely from now when you can play unranked warzones and earn BiS (i.e. "Best-in-Slot") gear. If you want to acquire something you need to meet the requirements.

 

Regarding the gearing just to play unranked warzones and raiding. Let's say I am raider and you are PvP'er: you queue for either regular or ranked warzone and get bolstered while I inter HM or NiM instance and don't have stats modified. Do you think it is really fair that for PvP you can plug blue 228 augments for 10k credits each and get 140k HP/ 5k Power while I have to craft a full set of fourteen augments / 8-10 millions each? I'd also like to add that regular warzones are not even a serious business compared to ranked: you don't loose anything when you loose a match (like rating), you don't pay for repairs like you do for PvE content. You queue, you play, you enjoy and no side effects.

 

258 Weapons are not necessary but could be used when you get some performance bonus out of it. But majority of players don't want to spend their own time into improving own play skills. Majority of players doesn't meet a limit which they need to push in case to have a reason to go for 258 weapons. It always was, it is and it will be like "skill > gear". If you have no skill to release your potential on the apex level of your current gear whats the reason you need 258 weapons? Correct. To compensate your lack of skill. So now it all comes to a player personal problem which doesn't make it a responsibility of raiders community who farm it with own team and don't bring players without achievements to help them. If you want to have a achievement so you can link it for a pug group, those can be earned with your guild: you join some progression group and learn mechanics with the rest of people. Sounds harder than joining a group of 7 people who have already progressed it and getting carried, right? If you don't want to put an effort into improving own skills, progressing the Queen with your team/guild and getting achievements whats your reason to have 258 weapons then?

 

Regarding DPS requirements on 8HM. I'd personally suggest to use setup of 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 damage dealers (preferably 1-2 with cleanse or self-cleanse). That should give you enough DPS to clear the encounter.

[Costello]

I find it hard to care what they do.

 

Its a single boss fight for gear that will either be irrelevant because the game is in all but maintenance mode with so little content as to make it not worth the effort. Or it will be superseded by 6.0 gear grind (if we don't see a 5.11 gear grind before that), where we will no doubt see blue 258 gear and as it doesn't have a set bonus will mean all that effort will be worth a trash drop.

 

With what can only be described as a small number of players really looking to do it, many appearing to fail and most wanting certain achievements before they will take members for a pug.

 

While the game engine/mechanics/combat make the experience pretty messy, laggy, more down to luck and if it wasn't for the latest gear grind I doubt many people would run it more than once.

 

Just a shame so much time and dev resources (possibly 75% of the whole resource) was spent on something yet again focused on a very small number of players.

[JattaGin]

You know what changed? the understanding that neckbeards living in moms basement were only a tiny fraction of the money they could earn if they appealed to a much larger player base. Wildstar was a game written for the nim raider harcore group. but it is gone because they couldnt or wouldnt financially support it. The next time BW wants to waste a summer and nerf everyone, they will be doing it based on the performance of 258 gear(or whatever they have gotten to at that point). If you are still rocking 248 you will be out of luck. As it stands, if you arent trying to get 258 you might as well unsub, because currently Swtor isnt being written for you in the slightest. Keiths raid group should be happy with it, hope that is ok with EAs shareholders.

 

Exactly ^^this!

 

the droid WB can be easily done without any death if all people know the mechanics. problem is, most people dont even care about them since you can brute force the droid anyway.

 

This is only a problem, because Mr. Kanneg forces all the people who simply don't care about such fights to play it, because it's basically the only endgame-content left to do. Mr. Kanneg forces HIS preferred playstyle on the players. And most simply don't care about it. But it's a Hobson's choice for them: do this content or don't do anything new. The problem is NOT the players.

 

Just a shame so much time and dev resources (possibly 75% of the whole resource) was spent on something yet again focused on a very small number of players.

 

Yes. Like almost everything they have done since Mr. Kanneg took over. They cater to the hardcore elite players, even though it was already established years ago that the game cannot rely on those. Hate Ben Irving as much as you want, but he understood the signs of time. (That it wasn't executed properly is another story.)

 

Just check the threads in the FP/OP etc. section of this forum. People are wondering things like "are there really only that few progression groups going for NiM GotM?" Yes. Yes, there are only that few. And the only surprise is that there are people surprised about it.

Edited February 22, 2019 by JattaGin

[nyrkverse]

look, at this point they can make the 258 weapons drop from a level 1 fleshraider on Tython for all I care. But asking for nerfs on content that's barely a week old is insane.

 

we already have access to all the best gear in the game, minus those 2 items, doing dailies, killing 2 mindlessly dull and easy WBs - no, something is not overtuned if you can zerg through it ignoring every mechanic - cicling through very normal and easily accessible activities like reg pvp or mm flashpoints and what is possibly the easiest group content in the game to date (storymode queen). Isn't that enough?

[TheDramaKing]

Come on now. You're going to lock weapons & crafting mats behind her, but make it were only a very small % can clear her.

 

Sorry if I'm too blunt, but you just don't realize that you're not good enough to be part of that small %.

 

The thing is: either you need 258 mh/oh for pvp (and you don't even have to be good to complete the SR quest) or for high lvl pve, in which case the Queen HM is a joke.

[Northernian]

Just like the droid on Ossus, the Queen is over-tuned (on HM), at least in 16-person. It's not even challenging when people die left right and center as soon as the fight begins for no discernible reason; it's just stupid.

 

 

It actually is elitism. Someone's achievement count is not an indication of how good they are, as most players, while being exceptionally good at the game, are without others to raid with. If hardcore raiderps don't bring in people because of their achievement count or lack thereof, then the community is never going to grow.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with elitism in the negative sense. This has more to do with players who want the rewards but not willing to do the work required to get them.

 

The bottom line is: If you aren't normally doing hardmode raiding, you shouldn't really attempt pugging HM Queen before you learn your class, join a hardmode raid team with voice comms and starparse, and improve.

 

Most skilled players are skilled because they bootstrap themselves through those humps, criticism, and frustrations.

 

They are all part of one's growth. If folks are really motivated to become hardcore and clear content, then they'll end up becoming one. And then they become qualified to earn those rewards that come from HM/NiM clears. Plus there are a lot of guilds out there recruiting to teach hardmode and nim mechanics to raiders.

 

I used to know a guy who was obsessed with having the top gear. But he didn't do anything other than storymode EV, KP and vet flashpoints. I had a hard time convincing him of skill > gear. He had little skills. Because he did nothing to improve. He just wanted the rewards.

 

The difficulty with HM Queen is fine as is imo. Nothing to be nerfed.

 

The problem with 16m is due to the game's engine causing fps / lag issues.

 

As with 258: Bioware released those rewards so that players can go and tackle NiM Gods. Again, very big rewards for those who work at it to get them. If you want them to get easily and only end up doing hardmode and storymode raids, it nullifies the whole reward-effort system that's at the core of MMOs.

 

So, no easy meal.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Northernian