Return appropriate music of Character Creation menu

[TGaP_Andrey]

You know, what I'm talking about.

I don't know what kind of excuse you have for deleting it from the game. You haven't even replaced it, you've just cut it without a trace - and all that's remains now is MAIN MENU music which plays all the way through. I'm absolutely MAD about it.

Edited January 7, 2019 by TGaP_Andrey

[TGaP_Andrey]

No, please, I don't believe I'm the only one who miss da music.

[SteveTheCynic]

No, please, I don't believe I'm the only one who miss da music.

You might, indeed, be the only one who *cares* what music is playing in the character customisation screen. (How much time do you spend in there that it matters?)

[Tofu_Shark]

He's not the only one that cares about the music. Why are so many of your posts filled with bitterness?

 

I noticed this a long time ago, when they threw out the Choose Your Advanced Class mission chain and forced everyone to choose an advanced class at character creation (a stupid change). I wasn't sure if it was a change that I didn't agree with (yet another stupid, unnecessary change at that) or a bug. Either way, it should be restored. People can spend a lot of time creating a character (especially with the Name Your Character boss). The faction themes always got me excited for creating a new character and starting a new journey. I miss them too.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Tofu_Shark

[Ylliarus]

I like the new music when we get into our character list screen, albeit I would have preferred if the old theme and the new theme alternated one another. As someone who has played this game since 2012, I have a lot of sentimental attachment to the old theme.

 

Regardless, while it is not a game-breaker for me, I did like the separate creation themes for the Empire and the Republic. If the devs have an ability to restore it, I would support the motion for the creation music to be returned.

 

(How much time do you spend in there that it matters?)

 

You would be surprised how long you can spend inside the character creation screen. I know I have spent long, long whiles in there trying out various designs for character concepts I had.

 

Don't take your personal play playstyle as the default for everyone else. Just because you don't spend too much time doing something in the game doesn't mean others are the same.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Ylliarus

[RowanThursday]

While you're at it, bring back the advanced class choice mechanic. What's the best way to find out if you want to play your smuggler as a 'slinger or a scoundrel? Play them for the first planet, then specialise. The shared ability trees up to level 10 also did a lot of good at mitigating the crippling over specialisation forced on a rigid class structure.

[Ylliarus]

While you're at it, bring back the advanced class choice mechanic. What's the best way to find out if you want to play your smuggler as a 'slinger or a scoundrel? Play them for the first planet, then specialise. The shared ability trees up to level 10 also did a lot of good at mitigating the crippling over specialisation forced on a rigid class structure.

 

/signed without second thought.

[DarkTergon]

/signed without second thought.

 

Agree, I never understood why they removed it in the first place, when you first start, if feels like a mini achievment, reaching fleet, and then deciding. Admittedly, after a few runs, you get used to it, and it's meh for some, but we always have new players, new people who would enjoy that first experience, that little extra bonus, i especially like the BH interaction.

[Phazonfreak]

Agree, I never understood why they removed it in the first place, when you first start, if feels like a mini achievment, reaching fleet, and then deciding. Admittedly, after a few runs, you get used to it, and it's meh for some, but we always have new players, new people who would enjoy that first experience, that little extra bonus, i especially like the BH interaction.

 

Disagreed, at least not in the form we already had back in the days. I am glad that they decided to give each advanced class specific abilities that actually make sense for their combat role instead of this rather awkward shoehorning of shared core abilites into advanced classes, because the old mechanic led to useless ability bloat and lots of balancing problems.

 

It was fun from a story and role fantasy standpoint and I do miss some of the conversations you had when you picked the advanced class on fleet, sure, but it was detrimental to any competitive gameplay later on.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[xordevoreaux]

I prefer the new music. Give me epic choral music with orchestra any day.

[Tofu_Shark]

This isn't about the character select screen music. That's a different subject, and one that has been posted about to death, because everyone is too damn lazy to do a search and contribute to the same thread.

 

I like the new music when we get into our character list screen, albeit I would have preferred if the old theme and the new theme alternated one another. As someone who has played this game since 2012, I have a lot of sentimental attachment to the old theme.

 

Regardless, while it is not a game-breaker for me, I did like the separate creation themes for the Empire and the Republic. If the devs have an ability to restore it, I would support the motion for the creation music to be returned.

 

 

(How much time do you spend in there that it matters?)

You would be surprised how long you can spend inside the character creation screen. I know I have spent long, long whiles in there trying out various designs for character concepts I had.

 

Don't take your personal play playstyle as the default for everyone else. Just because you don't spend too much time doing something in the game doesn't mean others are the same.

I believe this thread was only pertaining to the faction themes that play during character creation, not the new theme music at the character selection screen (of which I also disagree with).

 

No one said it was a gamebreaker, just another annoying, needless, pointless change that no one asked for.

 

While you're at it, bring back the advanced class choice mechanic. What's the best way to find out if you want to play your smuggler as a 'slinger or a scoundrel? Play them for the first planet, then specialise. The shared ability trees up to level 10 also did a lot of good at mitigating the crippling over specialisation forced on a rigid class structure.

Unfortunately, you've just stated the exact reason why they did away with them, because a small subset of players were going through the game (particularly group content or PvP) without ever choosing an advanced class. I agree, someone choosing to do this shouldn't do it to the dismay of the group, but the way Bioware went about preventing that was a bad choice. They could've just forced anyone that wanted to do group content or PvP to choose an advanced class. What do they do instead? Force everyone to play a certain way and remove content from vanilla, destroying the last sense of progression one had in the game, because people that play for immersion just don't matter.

[Phazonfreak]

Unfortunately, you've just stated the exact reason why they did away with them, because a small subset of players were going through the game (particularly group content or PvP) without ever choosing an advanced class. I agree, someone choosing to do this shouldn't do it to the dismay of the group, but the way Bioware went about preventing that was a bad choice. They could've just forced anyone that wanted to do group content or PvP to choose an advanced class. What do they do instead? Force everyone to play a certain way and remove content from vanilla, destroying the last sense of progression one had in the game, because people that play for immersion just don't matter.

 

That is not the only reason why they changed it and why forcing players to pick an advanced class for group content was not implemented as a solution. As stated above the old system also led to a lot of core abilities that became practically usless after you picked your advanced class because the combat role suddenly changed, i.e. a melee Consular suddenly becoming a ranged Sage with no use for a lightsaber. So playing the core class before choosing the advanced class was not a proper introduction into its combat role anyway. The main reason though why they got rid of it is balancing, which is why they also removed the manual talent trees and made them into automatic combat proficiencies, because balancing all the different talent specs was very challenging. You can call it dumbing down or sacrificing freedom for the sake of competitive gameplay, but they had to choose on or the other.

 

They actually tried again on a smaller scale with the tacticals and armor sets, but it led to the very same balancing problems we had before with the talent trees, albeit on a smaller, more manageable scale.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[DarkTergon]

I prefer the new music. Give me epic choral music with orchestra any day.

 

I like some of the new music, it sounds epic, reminds me of some russian awe inspiring orchestral symphony, i heard while in the Czech Republic a few years back.

[Tofu_Shark]

That is not the only reason why they changed it and why forcing players to pick an advanced class for group content was not implemented as a solution. As stated above the old system also led to a lot of core abilities that became practically usless after you picked your advanced class because the combat role suddenly changed, i.e. a melee Consular suddenly becoming a ranged Sage with no use for a lightsaber. So playing the core class before choosing the advanced class was not a proper introduction into its combat role anyway. The main reason though why they got rid of it is balancing, which is why they also removed the manual talent trees and made them into automatic combat proficiencies, because balancing all the different talent specs was very challenging. You can call it dumbing down or sacrificing freedom for the sake of competitive gameplay, but they had to choose on or the other.

 

They actually tried again on a smaller scale with the tacticals and armor sets, but it led to the very same balancing problems we had before with the talent trees, albeit on a smaller, more manageable scale.

That doesn't explain why they got rid of the "Choose Your Advanced Class" mission chain. It was an important part of your character's development. So what if it made no sense because they force you to choose your advanced class at character creation now? Also, they could've just taken away those abilities that weren't suited to the spec after you chose your advanced class. This would still give players a taste of each path until they had to choose an advanced class. And to keep them from not choosing an advanced class, just force them to choose one if they want to do group content.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Tofu_Shark

[Phazonfreak]

That doesn't explain why they got rid of the "Choose Your Advanced Class" mission chain. It was an important part of your character's development. So what if it made no sense because they force you to choose your advanced class at character creation now? Also, they could've just taken away those abilities that weren't suited to the spec after you chose your advanced class. This would still give players a taste of each path until they had to choose an advanced class. And to keep them from not choosing an advanced class, just force them to choose one if they want to do group content.

 

So what is the need for a core class progression arch if they just take away the abilities that you learned for it and give you completely new ones anyway? This is not an important part of your character's development then. The old core/advanced class mechanic did not make a lot of sense from the very beginning and it was very obvious that they did it so they don't have to create class stories for all 16 advanced classes and balance them accordingly.

This is also why some of the core class and story elements don't gel with the advanced class you just picked, best example being the lightsaber as a glorified stat glowstick for the sages/sorcerers and the shadows/assassins suddenly wielding a dualsaber after being trained on a single saber all the time on Tython. It's the same idea behind making all the republic and imperial classes mirrors of each other with abilities being different in name only so that they don't have to balance each individual class separately.

 

I am not saying that core/advanced class systems cannot work, there are other examples from other games, but it did not work in the way they implemented it here.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[RowanThursday]

I note with interest that it's the Consular/Inquisitor class you cite here. Reason being that across the board, that class seems to provoke more frustration over this sort of thing than any other.

 

I think - and this is just a personal theory- the issue is that of all the classes, it - along with Smuggler and Agent, who aren't as "iconic" in terms of combat style; Han Solo was neither a gunslinger from the Space West nor a shotgun wielding possessor of an invisibility cloak. (Not to say that the smuggler doesn't nicely evoke him, but it's in the story and character, not the combat style) - Consular /Inquisitor diverges the most. Sentinel and Guardian work differently, but neither they nor Commando/Vanguard, nor their mirrors, are that wildly different to their "generic" form. Therein lies the problem. Consular is "sold" as a synergy of Force and swordsmanship, which reads like the oconic Jedi; whereas that's actually Guardian, which you'd expect to be the full-on melee class. The synergy of Consular is only true now really for Shadow, and their disciplines are such that these days, tank is probably 5he only spec to really preserve it. The Consular; who mixed saber slashes and rock throwing, is otherwise long gone. They over specialise out of any resemblance to their beginnings, for the false benefit of easier class balance; sacrificing the interests of solo players for the sake of group PVP in a low population story driven world.

[Tofu_Shark]

Agreed, it is silly the sorc/sage hardly uses their lightsaber. I wouldn't say get rid of it, because they'd look even dumber unarmed. You're going to find it hard to convince anyone to alter design in favor of the solo experience though. I don't agree with that, but I do with everything else you said.

 

So what is the need for a core class progression arch if they just take away the abilities that you learned for it and give you completely new ones anyway? This is not an important part of your character's development then. The old core/advanced class mechanic did not make a lot of sense from the very beginning and it was very obvious that they did it so they don't have to create class stories for all 16 advanced classes and balance them accordingly.

This is also why some of the core class and story elements don't gel with the advanced class you just picked, best example being the lightsaber as a glorified stat glowstick for the sages/sorcerers and the shadows/assassins suddenly wielding a dualsaber after being trained on a single saber all the time on Tython. It's the same idea behind making all the republic and imperial classes mirrors of each other with abilities being different in name only so that they don't have to balance each individual class separately.

 

I am not saying that core/advanced class systems cannot work, there are other examples from other games, but it did not work in the way they implemented it here.

That doesn't justify getting rid of the "Choose Your Advanced Class" mission chain. That contributed to the sense of progression, which added to the immersion. There was no need to get rid of it. MMOs are supposed to add new content, not remove old content.

[RowanThursday]

See, what I would argue is the correct compromise is to simplify the ability *trees*, to meet the group and PVP balance concerns... but *not* simplify the variety of animations. So, I'll stick with a Consular/Inquisitor example, as it's topical; the Deception/Infiltration tree currently forcibly replaces 'shock' and 'project' - both iconic, much loved abilities- with 'ball lightning' and whatever the consular mirror is called, which aren't. The Serenity/Hatred tree does the same, but replaces them with *Squelch* for the Consular, which frankly just sounds stupid beyond belief, and something I forget for the inquisitor mirror. The 'project' and 'shock' animations are already in the game, already loaded for all characters; they already exist as coded abilities. If that replacement were *optional*, a mirror equivalent ability which scaled to exactly the same damage and other features (stun, etc etc), just using the different animations, then both camps would get something of what they want.

 

Sages and Sorcerers have a 'shield' ability. Some Sages and Sorcerers get understandably *tired* of the whole 'useless saber; don't complain about it, you're supposed to be ranged DPS' thing. This is a difference in mindset; to some players, they're 'supposed' to be ranged DPS, and the title and lore thing is just window dressing. To other players, they're 'supposed' to be Jedi or Sith, and the group role is just game mechanic dressing. Both viewpoints are equally valid. So, again, a compromise- the game already has a 'parry blaster bolts using your saber'- have a shielding utility which consists of actively doing this, a lot of pretty swishy saber action to deflect incoming damage.

 

Some Shadows adore the doublesaber. Some wanted to be Consulars and use a traditional saber. Some even wanted to dual wield, if I remember right. Personally I vacillate between the two camps. My preference would probably be doublesaber for Kinetic Combat and Infiltration spec, single saber for Serenity, but, that's purely personal and by-the-by- the point is, that all could be satisfied by having a cosmetic weapon slot, to customise the appearance of your actual weapon to anything within a certain range of appropriate ones for a class- but with the damage specs and so on controlled by the *actual* weapon- and thus, no balance complications.

 

Returning to the appropriate topic, grins, you could handle this in the same way- a preferences set for 'pick your background music for X, Y, Z.'

[Darth_Sidewinder]

Returning to the appropriate topic, grins, you could handle this in the same way- a preferences set for 'pick your background music for X, Y, Z.'

 

This would be a good solution to it all.

 

Also yeah - after a while, any music (even when a new is introduced) gets a bit repetitive, so that would be a good reason for allowing picking one, or returning to an old one every once in a while.

 

As for the second topic that somehow accidentally emerged here, I'd be for the opportunity of returning the choice of classes on the Fleet. Or the "pick your advanced class" mission at least, if only for flavour.

[Tofu_Shark]

Sadly, all this discussion about having a choice for what music to play as well as the below is pie in the sky. If players need to have a choice in music, there is something seriously wrong with 1) decision making by the devs, and 2) players' priorities. In an ideal world where SWTOR's budget was limitless and wasn't slashed to a shoestring, then maybe and only maybe could something like that be considered.

 

See, what I would argue is the correct compromise is to simplify the ability *trees*, to meet the group and PVP balance concerns... but *not* simplify the variety of animations. So, I'll stick with a Consular/Inquisitor example, as it's topical; the Deception/Infiltration tree currently forcibly replaces 'shock' and 'project' - both iconic, much loved abilities- with 'ball lightning' and whatever the consular mirror is called, which aren't. The Serenity/Hatred tree does the same, but replaces them with *Squelch* for the Consular, which frankly just sounds stupid beyond belief, and something I forget for the inquisitor mirror. The 'project' and 'shock' animations are already in the game, already loaded for all characters; they already exist as coded abilities. If that replacement were *optional*, a mirror equivalent ability which scaled to exactly the same damage and other features (stun, etc etc), just using the different animations, then both camps would get something of what they want.

 

Sages and Sorcerers have a 'shield' ability. Some Sages and Sorcerers get understandably *tired* of the whole 'useless saber; don't complain about it, you're supposed to be ranged DPS' thing. This is a difference in mindset; to some players, they're 'supposed' to be ranged DPS, and the title and lore thing is just window dressing. To other players, they're 'supposed' to be Jedi or Sith, and the group role is just game mechanic dressing. Both viewpoints are equally valid. So, again, a compromise- the game already has a 'parry blaster bolts using your saber'- have a shielding utility which consists of actively doing this, a lot of pretty swishy saber action to deflect incoming damage.

 

Some Shadows adore the doublesaber. Some wanted to be Consulars and use a traditional saber. Some even wanted to dual wield, if I remember right. Personally I vacillate between the two camps. My preference would probably be doublesaber for Kinetic Combat and Infiltration spec, single saber for Serenity, but, that's purely personal and by-the-by- the point is, that all could be satisfied by having a cosmetic weapon slot, to customise the appearance of your actual weapon to anything within a certain range of appropriate ones for a class- but with the damage specs and so on controlled by the *actual* weapon- and thus, no balance complications.

 

Returning to the appropriate topic, grins, you could handle this in the same way- a preferences set for 'pick your background music for X, Y, Z.'

This is not the same as them replacing certain iconic, class-defining abilities with new abilities which are lackluster or removing content that lent to a sense of progression, the story, or immersion in general. This tangent of choosing music at the character log-in screen is really splitting hairs. I'm not even advocating for a choice in music, because that's just a ludicrous request. Just change it back, please, Bioware.

 

What they should've done was had those new abilities be PvP exclusive. That's all I'm going to say on the matter, because this isn't relevant to the thread topic.

[vingmotor]

aaw you guys are not fans of russian anthem song?