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One player's opinion on that "state of PvP"


Banderal

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So, I got asked in another thread...

 

Hey banderal, how is the PVP now, honestly speaking? How often do 70s pop, what maps pop most often, etc. Also, does 248s bolster to a point you feel competitive or are you noticing a power difference between yourself and others with better gears?

 

But I thought it was a bit off topic there. Instead, I'll put it here for everyone to disagree with. :p

 

I'm finding, on SF, that regs 70s pops pretty much constantly. I play "EST" timezone, but sometimes I'm on at 2 AM if I can't sleep, or 4 AM if I get up early before work. And then the normal "primetimes". I haven't seen that much of a dead zone - although, admittedly, at the 4 AM time I get the same mix of about 20 people over and over.

 

I don't notice that much of a difference between power levels now and before. When I scan ppls gear levels in regs 70s, it's all over the place. Including LESS than 230 - which I guess makes sense for new people, since they would not have the stockpile of tokens with which to buy a full set of 230 tier 1 gear. I don't see too many people in 252 or 258 levels of gear. Slippery is in min/max'd 248s and I'm not even trying to get anything else since it would require me to grind PvE rep and f-ck that. My new tank is in 230s still as above, but I haven't played a tank in so long it's hard for me to say how it compares to before.

 

Personally, I think, as before, the main difference in the matches is the experience levels of the players. As with my sage example... I doubt very much there was any gear difference between us. I suspect they just had no PvP experience really (come to think of it, I don't think they ever used bubble either). I still melt when put against good players that know how to counter my classes' DCDs. And there are still parse-fests where no one is dying because both teams have a couple good healers or some such (that's why I took a try at that off node in Vandin with the sage - middle was an uncapped stalemate.)

 

As far as which matches pop... I have to say, huttball. I mean, I *LIKE* huttball games, but OMG (anecdotally) we get SO MANY of them now. In the last 3 weeks or so I've been subbed I can remember many days where I got a long streak of huttball matches (3 or 4 in a row, and then something else. and then another 3 or 4 HB). I don't remember pretty much any streaks like that for any of the other maps now. I don't know if this is because there are 3 HB maps an they count as separate in the "random selection". Anyway, that's what usually drives me to quit for the day... after the 3rd HB map in a row where people are playing deathmatch instead.

 

Or like just now, where I had an ACW and my team kept leaving ZERO people to guard any other nodes - I've become less tolerant of that lately. I just start hopping around the map and taking all the powerups for no reason, because again... if no one else can be bothered to guard, then f-ck that too. (Anyone else remember the movie "Slapshot" - hockey movie, where at the end one of the players got so fed up with the fact that his team had basically become a "death match" team that he just started skating around the rink, doing a striptease. I feel like that.)

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PvP on SS. rgs pop all day Ranked depends. Some coordinate for group matches.

Solos/Yolos are hit or miss, pop during busier hours obviously.

 

Just my 2 cents...

My issue is with mobility and overall suvivability of healers.

Healers dictate match outcomes most often.

Chasing them around map while teamates ignore them and deathmatch in a futile attempt to take down DpS & Tanks.

Meanwhile their dps is hammering on you....

Good healers can easily pull 5k + hps. Most DpS struggle to hit 3 or 4k.

When you have a couple good healbots on both teams, say like in a Voidstar, it's kinda annoying.

The matches where you end up with 2-4 million in damage, with 0 or 1 kill and 1 or 2 deaths.

Nobody on either team can kill anyone. Not 1 door i planted....

Especially guarded heals that know how to use DCD's and LOS.

Merc, Op, and Sorc hls all have great DCD's and mobility, roll, HO, phase walk, etc.

I find it quite challenging to kill heals while getting white-barred and interuppted and beat on by Tanks/DPS of opposing team.

If you and/or your teamates manage to chase and burn down that pesky healer, you have to cap, plant, score fast, before that heal has rezzed and returned bouncing around and spamming heals keeping the other team up....

PvP Regs is still fun in general, I just feel, (just 1 opinion), that healing needs a slight nerf...

Either to mobility, dcd's, or energy cost/heat, etc.

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My experiences on SF in the last week. (I’ve not played a lot though).

 

Outside of primetime (10pm - 8am) due to my Timezone the pops have slowed. What I find strange is they rarely revert to 4v4 like they are supposed to during slow pop times. Now it seems to make you want to wait 10-15 mins again so it can put you into a HB or Odessen match that you instantly leave (when not in primetime), The player skill gets incrementally worse as the day progresses outside of primetime (it’s why I refuse to play HB at those times). It eventually devolves into teams who can’t crack 800k dps and can’t take or hold nodes (both teams). After you’ve stomped your way through a few matches it quickly loses its appeal and frustration towards my team increases enough that I have to stop or I start yelling at them for being so stupid.

 

Some player Skill lvl has increased (sort of) during primetime (when I can sometimes play). I think this is due to the influx of rerolls or transfers from SS in the last 2-3 weeks. But other people seem to be getting worse on a daily basis.

It’s certainly noticeable in normal HB and quesh HB when you have people with a clue playing. I’ve had some of the best HB matches in years during the last 3 weeks (during primetime). It’s so refreshing not having to try and carry a whole HB team (which is very difficult now with the ball exploding). Hutt Ball is my specialty and its normal for me to score most of, if not all the goals and top the medals (I got 21 medals yesterday).

 

On the flip side. Out side of HB the death matching is getting worse and can be really one sided, especially if one team has a good healer and the healer on the other team might as well not even have one. Normally only one team has a few people who play the objectives (me) and they win 80% of the time even if they have less dps (dps alone doesn’t win matches).

 

The actual quality in skill has the biggest gulf I’ve ever seen between those that know how to play their class and those that don’t. I’m not even talking about good players, just people who know their own class abilities and what a DCD actually is. When you throw in the skilled players vs these guys it’s like preschoolers playing PHD graduates.

On that note, I am seeing a lot more “ranked” guys and normal ranked premades :rolleyes: running around in regs since 5.10. I don’t know if that’s coincidence or because of the change in the ranked weekly to 50.

 

In Yavin and Civil War I nearly always go solo to the right node and take it. Even if they send multiple guys. It doesn’t even seem to matter what class I’m on because the people who go there always seem to be the less skilled combat players on the team. I do the same thing on Nova and head straight to “their” side node. If I don’t get there in time to stop the cap (which I do 90% of the time), I can still usually take it from the capper(s).

 

None of that is because my skill has increased. If anything I think my skill has decreased because of less competition.

I should not be able to solo a Mara, Jugg or Merc on a Sorc. Especially a combination of them.

I find sometimes after a cap the other team sends 2-3 after Ive killed the others and when I call inc none of my guys come (nothing new there :mad:). My team now have a 6-3 or 6-2 advantage and they still can’t take the mid node. What’s even more sad is I still seem to hold on to the side node for a hell of a long time or in some rare cases I’ve gotten a Triple solo (on my Jugg or Merc). I had 7 solos in one match (the same 2-3 guys kept rotating back after they died) topped the dps and all I did was guard all match while my team dps farmed in mid. I would say I spent 30% of that match waiting to be attacked while I guarded.

It should not even be possible that I top the dps for the whole team in a big way when all they did was dps grind for the entire match and got hardly any kills.

 

Im also seeing “too” good premades on either team and it becomes a route. You can tell it’s game over for one side in the first 20-30secs. There are a few too many “good player” premades doing this which ruins any semblance of fun. I know I get bored when I pug and can go through a whole team of bads, so I cannot for the life of me understand how that can be fun for these obviously good players in premades stomping extremely bad pug teams (I can’t remember the last time I saw a good premade on both teams). I usually leave the match when I see it even if they are on my side. I find it boring and extremely unfair for the receiving side. It also makes lots of people stop queuing if it keeps happening (outside of primetime).

 

Of course there are other premades and they are often bad vs a person who can play. They often lose matches for their teams because they don’t heal anyone outside of their clique and they run everywhere together even when it’s detrimental to leave a node unguarded :rolleyes:

These are the extraordinarily bad premades that take their 2-3 dps and healer/tank to kill one person. If they aren’t all together they can’t kill anything and if you kill their healer they crumble in seconds because they don’t have a clue what a DCD is. They are literally so bad that I hardly ever use my stun break and just let them continuously white bar me and end up getting accused of hacking.

 

The one thing that pvp really has going for it at the moment is most people are playing with bolstered gear which makes it more fun and less gear stomp wars. Those few that have better gear are normally not that great, but there are some with skill on par with mine and you can really tell the difference, so I’m not sure how this will pan out in the long term as more and more get better gear. I guess my double/triple solo kills will stop because I’m refusing to participate in this stupid gear grind. I will probably still have 248 gear when (if) 6.0 is released.

 

Pvp is the most fun for me when it is skill vs skill and not gear vs gear. I don’t mind losing to a better player if we both have the same skill. But when I lose to a slightly lesser skilled player or two mediocre players because they have heaps better geare it really makes me angry because I know I could have beaten them. If it’s someone with similar skill to mine I get even more frustrated because I know it could have been a good fight.

I really wish Bioware would understand that pvp is supposed to be about fun and not grinding gear. Skill should always be the only factor in pvp. Other games like overwatch understand this and it’s why they are successful and swtor pvp is dying.

 

I did play some Mids during double xp or when lvl 70 devolves into a bus crash outside of primetime. I usually craft dyes or help my wife and queue mid pvp incase it pops. Even my wife queues with me and I hate to say it, but she’s a terrible pvper (don’t tell her I said that or she’ll stop playing it ;)). 95% of mid matches are arena and I’ve never really liked the format, at least it fast (especially if you have a terrible team). But I am getting much better at the strategy (never been a strong suit of mine in arena ) and I don’t mind it as much as I used to. In a lot of cases the players are actually better than the lvl 70 guys who are on at the same time of day. I wish it would pop more at lvl 70 when there are so many bads on because the matches are faster.

 

Anyway, that’s my personal assessment from my own experiences in pvp at moment. I’m sure they differ from some other people who dont get to play at the times I do.

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When you have a couple good healbots on both teams, say like in a Voidstar, it's kinda annoying.

The matches where you end up with 2-4 million in damage, with 0 or 1 kill and 1 or 2 deaths.

Nobody on either team can kill anyone. Not 1 door i planted....

Especially guarded heals that know how to use DCD's and LOS.

Merc, Op, and Sorc hls all have great DCD's and mobility, roll, HO, phase walk, etc.

I find it quite challenging to kill heals while getting white-barred and interuppted and beat on by Tanks/DPS of opposing team.

 

Most of Void Star comes down to strategy. How do you think it was when we had 8v8 ranked? If you didn’t use some semblance of strategy and tactics the matches would be stalemates too.

 

This isn’t directed at you, but too everyone who doesn’t understand basic tactics in Void Star.

 

How to cap doors in Void Star (90% of the time).

* rushing a door all at once only works if the other team is terrible at combat and your team is OP compared to theirs).

* the best tactic is to lure the other team from the doors. Most will chase you because they are all about dps farming and they get tunnel vision. Most don’t even watch the doors if they are close enough to stop a cap.

* you need to split them and get a numbers advantage on one door. You can do this with 1 or 2 players pressuring the other door or making a bunch chase you.

* don’t fight at the door (especially if they have ranged who can sit behind a pylon) because it keeps their whole team facing the door. You want to make them have their back to the door and not looking at it. So move away to at least the pylons and always keep them facing out from the doors (where possible), especially ranged like snipers.

* having a competent stealth who can ninja (knows how and when to time it) is good and you can really help them if you do all of the above to distract the other team.

* spam capping is probably the most stupid thing that’s crept into the game in the last few years. It shows no imagination and hardly ever works (except against other bads). When I see 1-2 guys spam capping while getting AOEd from cover I feel like smashing my head on the keyboard. DONT spam cap in Void Star, it’s dumb. Let one person cap and the rest stop the other team using stuns/slows or diverting them.

* Void Star is not about killing everything. Half the time it’s better not to kill them so your team can move head. You also don’t want to die before the doors go (this should always give you a numbers advantage while they have people respawning) so it’s important to use as much LoS and make them chase you.

* don’t kill them in the tunnels unless you really need to (they are overwhelming you in numbers). One of the best strategies is to slow them down any way you can (sometimes you need to “self sacrifice” like HK). Doing this will allow your team to get ahead and have a numbers advantage at the other doors. (Keep them in the tunnels).

 

How to defend in Void Star

* this should be a no brainer. Don’t do anything I’ve suggested above.

* guard the doors. Dont get lured away looking to dps farm or an elusive kill.

* ALWAYS HAVE THE DOOR IN VIEW (the most important thing). If you can’t see the door, you can’t stop a cap (I’m talking to you snipers and Sorcs who stand at the respawn to dps farm and cannot see the doors).

* watch how many enemy are around your side. It doesn’t or it shouldn’t take 5 guys to stop or deter 1-2. When you see your advantage on one side is becoming too much, some of you need to disengage and head to the other side. The best classes to do this are Mara’s, Sorcs and Operatives.

* the best solo guards are Operatives and Sins. Snipers aren’t that great unless they stay out of sight (even though I see them sit right in front of doors. There are so many times I’ve gotten behind a sniper and capped without them even knowing I was there).

* call incs early and numbers (very important or too many can come to your aid and not leave enough on the other door).

* watch for inc calls and react fast or better yet, watch the map and use situational awareness to know when the other team is trying to out number your guys on the other door. (Make sure you don’t over commit. Someone still needs to hold the other door)

* once again, you don’t need to kill them. Just stop them capping. Sometimes this means being sneaky and just standing behind the LoS and interrupting till help arrives, the longer you stay alive, the more likely you will have enough back up.

 

There are many other little tactics and pointers I could add. But those are the basics and I need to keep something up my sleeve just incase the impossible happens and people learn how to play Void Star properly. ;)

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Most of Void Star comes down to strategy. How do you think it was when we had 8v8 ranked? If you didn’t use some semblance of strategy and tactics the matches would be stalemates too. ;)

 

Most Voidstar were decided on kills or by wiping everyone and ccing at spawn.

 

But anyway, hope your post helps people to understand better :)

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Or like just now, where I had an ACW and my team kept leaving ZERO people to guard any other nodes - I've become less tolerant of that lately. I just start hopping around the map and taking all the powerups for no reason, because again... if no one else can be bothered to guard, then f-ck that too. (Anyone else remember the movie "Slapshot" - hockey movie, where at the end one of the players got so fed up with the fact that his team had basically become a "death match" team that he just started skating around the rink, doing a striptease. I feel like that.)

 

My 2 cents while I’m still subbed (last loged in to PvP on the end of November, don’t plan to subscribe till 6.0 I guess).

 

The thing that I’ve noticed as a big change since I guess BW launch of Vandin and MBR is an increase of overall player’s apathy or call it “lower involvement level”. People’s habit leaving Vandin at start (myself included, no exception for last 5-6 times I’ve played) have spread to other zones which players used to dislike but tolerate- like Odessen or Queshball. It’s like they get frustrated with Vandin, they quit wz and next pop- another one they don’t like and it kind of snowballs. Might be a confirmation bias, it’s more of my personal feeling tbh rather than an objective observation.

 

And the next one is how easy matches are decided in first several minutes. I did not have any regs where I had to put an effort if my team performs couple of good moves at the beginning, or where I saw a chance of winning being on the team who ****ed up at start for a long time. I’d tie that to increased player’s apathy as well.

 

I was amazed with BW’s decision to introduce new grind (not like I’m against the concept of grind itself) now, when they have so many issues they could focus on.

 

Not sure what else to add, the game is installed, I just don’t have any desire to play it atm.

Edited by zhezvya
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My experiences on SF in the last week. (I’ve not played a lot though).

 

Thanks for that, I found that an interesting read so it sounds fairly similar to how it used to be, except Huttball now pops more than ever, rofl.

 

 

 

My 2 cents while I’m still subbed (last loged in to PvP on the end of November, don’t plan to subscribe till 6.0 I guess).

 

I was amazed with BW’s decision to introduce new grind (not like I’m against the concept of grind itself) now, when they have so many issues they could focus on.

 

Not sure what else to add, the game is installed, I just don’t have any desire to play it atm.

 

Yeah I get it. That sums up my feelings too. You seem much more resigned to the fact you have no interest in playing as I do now too. I was pissed for about 2 months honestly speaking.

 

I stopped playing over 2 months ago myself, I didn't even bother trying this new gear grind because I really felt confident I knew how it would go, and it did just as I expected from the plethora of posts that describe and explain all the shortcomings 5.10 brought.

 

Anyway, I doubt I am going to try it even with 6.0. If they want to lock in mods on top of adding a redundant gear grind that is extremely long and hard I have no interest in that as a PVPer. Customizing my stats and gearing alts is my priority for PVP, and if this is diminished then I have nothing to look forward to on this game.

 

I have feelings of nostalgia that pop up occasionally but I am just tired of ending up disappointed. That feeling is enough to keep me away still.

 

Hey Banderal, thanks for posting this and updating how PVP is! I still find it a fascinating read even if I aint logged in. Threads like this from honest people like you and others here let me know how the game is going, and how PVP is especially.

Edited by Lhancelot
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I agree with Trixie:

1.) PvPer is best without gear grind, skill vs skill is what real PvPers want. Gear grind should be very short for PvP and have very minimal impact.

2.) Premades are the main problem with MMO PvP. If we had huge populations and a smart queue, we could balance it, but really any premade of half-wits on one team against a pug team is a war not even worth playing. These wars are a waste of players time.

 

Comment on other posts:

- Healers are not OP, currently they are a bit under-powered and should be buffed. Learn to handle them, they are overly easy to beat right now. Remember smart healers need to be able to heal themselves and others to be worth playing. The role of a healer isn't just to drop into the war, and easily get 1v1 killed so they can respawn and do it again, they would be worth less than 1 player in an 8v8 then.

 

Really, the bolster should be set to 258 and when 6.0 comes out they should either give us a new slot for resilience items, or simply introduce resilience crystals to put in weapons that take about 2 weeks of doing daily/weeklies to get. Then all the gearing issues would be over. Such a simple fix. PvEers can have the slow grind they like, PvPers can have the fast grind they REQUIRE. No one would need 2 sets of gear, PvPers can dabble in PvE, PvEers can dabble in PvP - everyone wins.

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I stopped playing over 2 months ago myself, I didn't even bother trying this new gear grind because I really felt confident I knew how it would go, and it did just as I expected from the plethora of posts that describe and explain all the shortcomings 5.10 brought.

 

Yeah, the potential gear grind, and especially that it is locked behind PvE reputation, pissed me off as well. But then with the locked-in-place mods and enhancements, that made me not so sure that the "258 less than min-maxed" gear would actually be better than "248 min/maxed". Like I posted in another thread, I got me a 252 relic in a crate (I should have played the lottery that day!) and it made like a .0000000123% difference in my stats, or something (although, I guess if I'm supposedly bolstered to 252 that make sense). I'm just not a top-tier player such that a difference that small is EVER going to matter in a fight I'm in. :D

 

So I decided I'm just ignoring gear beyond 248. Let bolster handle it. If at some point it feels to me like bolster is not handling it well enough even for regs, then maybe I'll take a look at gear again.

 

I'm with Trixie, BTW - I really wish that all gear was equalized in PvP and be done with it. I mean, the mods, enhancements, armorings, hilts, barrels and augments are all named. So just take whatever anyone has in their slots and boost everything to the maximum version of that thing with that name. If I have a "critical augment 25", then when I get into a PvP match it acts as a "superior critical augment 48". That lets PvPrs min/max any way they want, and also everyone in the match is on equal gear footing. And especially now that the latest grind is mostly based on PvE things it makes even more sense to me that in PvP they could just make gear irrelevant.

 

Anyway, my current sub expires in 3 days. For me it probably depends mostly on what type of players I get in the matches leading up to that expire. I find that affects my enjoyment of the game a lot more than anything bioware has done. Class imbalance - annoying. Gear grinds - unnecessary. Huttball game bugs - annoying to frustrating. But I've never shut the game down because of any of those. I always shut it down after 1 too many matches where it seems no one cares about the actual WZ goals (i.e. winning) except me. That combined with the "I'm too good for this team" attitude that a lot of people have... I can't seem to find the "queue with only good players" button in my UI. Can someone point that out to me?

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For what this is worth, I just pulled out my stats on my "248 geared shadow" - bolstered and unbolstered. So, it's definitely raising them with bolster to something above 248.

 

bolstered from 248 (unbolstered): percent increase

 

dmg: 4341 - 5063 (4253-4975) : +1.7%

bonus dmg: 2897.6 (2810.3) : +3.1%

acc: 101.72 (101) : +0.7%

crit: 45.94% (45.31) : +1.4%

mult: 72.39% (71.98) : +0.5%

health: 137606 (133757) : +2.8%

armor: 4410 (4410)

dmg reduce: 20.04% (20.04)

defense: 10% (10)

shield/abs: 0% (0)

force bonus dmg: 4059.7 (3972.4) : +2.2%

force bonus heal: 2930.8 (2868.4) : +2.17%

force regen: 8.4 (8.4)

alac: 5.4% (4.92) : +9.7%

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For what this is worth, I just pulled out my stats on my "248 geared shadow" - bolstered and unbolstered. So, it's definitely raising them with bolster to something above 248.

 

 

Bolster now sits around 252 iirc. Better to rock the 252 main hand proper due to bonus damage or some s*** like that, but past that I'd just readjust my 248 gear to get closer to the established stat value goals.

 

In regards to gear in pvp, the gear differences aren't going to be crazy until the 258 main hand off hands come into play; come about 2 weeks from now or so those who started right out the gate grinding should be getting close to full 258 gear anyway. Id assume until the mh oh get released it's going to make healers/tanks more valuable w/o the increase in weapon damage to go with the stat increases, but i don't know much. :p

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I agree with Huttball popping too much. And I love HB. But I feel like half the matches every night are one of the 3 HBs. And if it was an actual HB game that occurred - id be happy. But it rarely is. Its usually a sh*t-show of DPSers who would rather win the game of DPSing bc the game of objectives is too hard.

 

I know there are potential issues with allowing PVPers to select what warzones they do or dont want... But why can't they at least allow players to uncheck Huttballs only? That way, DPSers can avoid HBs, and then the only HBs that pop will be full of people who genuinely want to play HB.

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For what this is worth, I just pulled out my stats on my "248 geared shadow" - bolstered and unbolstered. So, it's definitely raising them with bolster to something above 248.

 

bolstered from 248 (unbolstered): percent increase

 

dmg: 4341 - 5063 (4253-4975) : +1.7%

bonus dmg: 2897.6 (2810.3) : +3.1%

acc: 101.72 (101) : +0.7%

crit: 45.94% (45.31) : +1.4%

mult: 72.39% (71.98) : +0.5%

health: 137606 (133757) : +2.8%

defense: 10% (10)

force bonus dmg: 4059.7 (3972.4) : +2.2%

alac: 5.4% (4.92) : +9.7%

 

Well if ignoring Alacrity of 5.4%, that do not break Global Cooldown Breakpoints, (You need either 703 for a 1.4 sec GCD or 1860 Alacrity for a 1.3 GDC). The above means roughly a +17% "Efficiency" in PvP. The +10% Defense is the highest variable. This is by measuring the above" Stat" differences only.

 

In general "People" and "Devs" are clueless how to understand and interpret "Multiplicable" versus "Additive" variables, and this causes "Motherf'ing" and "Big" "Discrepancies" in PvP outcome.

 

 

I do believe that 252 as baseline and 240 Augments are close to a equal playing field and the +X % to be miniscule. If their is a +10% mathmatically proven efficiency at the top 1% :). I will whine my azz off ;).

 

Until then.. their is no gear grind. Just have fun in PvP with 228-236 Augmented 248 Gear, untiil you get better gear from Ossus :).

Edited by Mannok
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The +10% Defense is the highest variable.

 

There was no difference in defense. It was just "10%" bolstered and unbolstered. In case that was unclear. This sentence I quoted made it sound like my post was unclear on that point. Ignoring alac, as you say, the highest increase was bonus melee damage, at 3.1% (assuming I correctly punched the numbers into my calculator app).

 

I left off trying to give any summary of "overall effect" of those increases, because ... well, I don't think it's a simple as just adding them up, or averaging them or something. I was mostly verifying that bolster from 248 *is* doing something, and so the reported bolster to 252 is probably working.

 

In general "People" and "Devs" are clueless how to understand and interpret "Multiplicable" versus "Additive" variables

 

There's a poster on my manager's door at work that says something like "99% ^ 365 = 2.6%, 101% ^ 365 = 3778%". It makes me want to scream "EFFORT IS NOT MULTIPLICATIVE" every time I see it. :p

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There was no difference in defense. It was just "10%" bolstered and unbolstered. In case that was unclear. This sentence I quoted made it sound like my post was unclear on that point. Ignoring alac, as you say, the highest increase was bonus melee damage, at 3.1% (assuming I correctly punched the numbers into my calculator app).

 

I left off trying to give any summary of "overall effect" of those increases, because ... well, I don't think it's a simple as just adding them up, or averaging them or something. I was mostly verifying that bolster from 248 *is* doing something, and so the reported bolster to 252 is probably working.

 

There's a poster on my manager's door at work that says something like "99% ^ 365 = 2.6%, 101% ^ 365 = 3778%". It makes me want to scream "EFFORT IS NOT MULTIPLICATIVE" every time I see it. :p

 

Well the point is very clear :) what "seems" to be a very small diffrerence, is a really "big" difference.

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